UO Thursday: Current Event Edition - 8/17

curiousfool1

Morning ladies,

I realize this discussion thread may just open Pandora's box, even for an UO thread.  But I've had a myriad of thoughts running through my mind this week particularly about my feelings raising children in the current socio-political environment.  I would like to start a discussion, as we have in the past, with this focus in mind: parenting and politics.  

Can I ask that we keep a few things in mind?  This is not the FFFC thread.  Share your opinions, all of them, but let's try to do it in a way that is respectful of each other and encourages civil discourse.  

I'll kick things off.  I struggle, quite a lot, with the line between protected free speech and unprotected actions.  By way of background, I am a lawyer and more than a bit of a Constitutional Law junkie.  I genuinely love free speech issues.  I am also a very naive person who is finding it so hard to believe the vitriol spewing forth the last several years.   Admittedly, I grew up in a fairly rural suburb in Western New York, where diversity was minimal, and where the majority of my community aligned with one form of evangelical, non-denominational protestant church or another.  That naive part of me really does not want to have a child in a world where blatant hate speech that spills over into riots and violence is prevalent.  I posted in a thread on my personal FB page that, as vile as I consider the opinions of the white nationalists, they have a right to their opinions and to sharing their opinions in public.  What they do not have a right to do is incite violence.  

I have a much, much younger sister who lives with my husband and me during the summers.  She's 13.  Ironically, all her required summer reading this year for school revolves around WWII, the Nazis, and the Holocaust.  We've been having some really interesting dinner conversations about Nazis, Neo-Nazis, American race relations, etc., and have started watching Schindler's List.  She also just finished reading "The Help," and we'll watch that next.  Any other suggestions for books/movies to introduce her to?  Having these conversations with her is an enlightening preview into what I may expect a few years down the line.

DuchessOfCambridge

Sure we have freedom of speech but it comes with consequences. So, feel free to share your opinion but be prepared for people to think you're an asshole and use THEIR free speech to tell you so. This comic sums up my feelings nicely:

DuchessOfCambridge

Has your sister read "The Wave"? I read that when I was about her age and it was really eye opening since it happened in a school and didn't feel as far removed as WWII can since we weren't alive during it.

mymulligan

Just last week I finished "Small Great Things" by Jodi Picoult, which is relevant to current events. Very interesting read and I haven't read her books in years.

curiousfool1

@DuchessOfCambridge - The Wave sounds frightening!  My local library does not have it, but my online membership is still active with my former town and I can get the eBook there.  Even if my sister does not read it, I plan to.

In my mind, the freedom of speech debate bleeds into my opinion on society's approach to personal responsibility and consequences in general.  I was raised to take responsibility for my actions.  I cannot tell you how much it drives me nuts to hear (through my teacher-family members, and watching my mother do it) tales of parents pestering schools to get their children out of who-knows-what for some ridiculous reason.  Or, our current President for that matter.  You should be held accountable for your speech and for your actions! 

bcashaw

Nazis are bad. 
 I dont care about free speech, if youre gonna be a nazi, dont expect me to to not stand up to whatever bullshit you are spewing. 
 Thats my opinion. 

As far as books i always enjoyed "night" and i would reccomend a book (that i of course cant remember the name of right this second) that is just a series of poems, stories, and pictures made my children in terezin , which was a camp.  They had an illegal school and years later these poems and stories were found hidden in the walls. 

littlemissc17

Ugh, this is tough for me. I'm African American. I'm well-educated, I pay taxes and am generally a good citizen. However, I get called the N word on a very regular basis. Since it's usually in a professional setting, I can't retort or really even avoid it because I have a duty to work with them. It sucks being called derogatory names or having people believe they are superior to you because of the color of their skin and/or religion. Free speech doesn't feel free when you're often on the other end of it.

curiousfool1

@littlemissc17  - Seriously? And there's my naivety coming right through, but I'm so so sorry you experience this still.  And in professional settings.  Good grief.  

The governor of my state, Maine, gave an interview yesterday that really appalled me.  He compared removing confederate statues to removing the 9/11 memorial, and likening the Antifa and other counter-protester activist groups to terrorists themselves.  Granted, to the extent any of the Charlottesville counter-protestor activitists *initiated* violence on Saturday, they should be held responsible for the consequences of their actions.  What's good for the goose is good for the gander.  But I just don't see how any of the circumstances from Saturday are remotely comparable to George Washington (Trump), 9/11, or something similar! 

DuchessOfCambridge

@littlemissc17 I totally get what you mean. Oftentimes, people can say whatever they want to minority groups and if the minority groups don't just sit down and take it, they are immediately then labeled as aggressive or some other nonsense.

@curiousfool1 logic is beyond them. They truly cannot understand that confederate statues are actually more like if we raised statues honoring the terrorists behind 9/11, not 9/11 memorials. Sorry about your governor, he sounds like a moron. Or at least, that speech he gave was extremely uneducated.

You know how we preserve history and learn? Books. Not. Statues. Memorials are to remember tragic events in history, statues are meant to honor. Pretty sure there are zero statues of Hitler hanging around in Europe!

YesOuiCan

Thanks for starting this thread. Charlottesville is my hometown and my whole family (except me) still lives there. This event has affected me deeply over this past week, and frankly has me depressed about bringing my sweet baby into this world. In terms of the suggested topic of "parenting and politics," my current concern is wondering where I want to raise my child. I feel like I want to be away from anywhere with Confederate statues, away from anywhere my child might have to see armed Nazis marching through the streets, but I also want to be in an area with diversity of race and religion. I don't like that my instinct is to run away from the bad guys when so many of my friends stood up to them last weekend, but this growing baby has me thinking differently than I would have a couple years ago. I always thought there was a fair chance we'd move back to the Charlottesville area, but right now I'm scared those psychos will keep coming back.

@littlemissc17 I am so sorry that you have to experience that at all, let alone in a professional setting. It breaks my heart that a human could talk to another human like that. I hope the world will be better for this next generation that we are creating.

DungeonTrollMel

This is a topic my husband and I have actually discussed extensively prior to all of this. We are both very open minded or liberal or whatever you want to label it and are both very interested in learning about other cultures and accepting them. He's Canadian so he grew up in a very different environment than I did down in Texas. 

My my father has become increasingly vocal over the past few years about topics we just do not agree with. He constantly makes comments against other races to the point we have actually had to sit down my parents and tell them that type of language will not be tolerated around their grand child. We want to raise him in a house hold of openness and acceptable of everyone. Racism is a learned behavior and we refuse to let him be exposed to that first hand. 

honestly this culture of this country is a big reason we eventually want to relocate back to Canada. I know people say that as a joke, but we do find the mentality there much more in allignment with ours 

littlemissc17

Unfortunately I have gotten used to it and don't take it personally. I loved the analogy @DuchessOfCambridge used to compare the taking down of the statue. I wish there were some way you could get that analogy out there because I think it may help some people understand it a little better. 

curiousfool1

I just read opinion pieces in both the NY Times and the WSJ on Steve Bannon's departure in the wake of the Charlottesville protests.  Personally, I am not at all dismayed that he is now out of the administration.  Both pieces, however, indicated Bannon was of the opinion President Trump's second statement on the riots would be viewed as "too little, too late" (and, in his opinion, for that reason was a waste of time to issue).   I think perhaps this is the one thing I will agree with Bannon on - Trump's response to Charlottesville was abysmal.  His second statement, although better, was indeed too little too late.  Nevermind the fact it has been completely undermined by his vitriolic, childish ranting in the week following.

I have not yet listened to or read a transcript of Trump's Pheonix rally speech from a few days ago.  My gut reaction to all these rallies initially has been "Why are you campaigning?! Stay in the White House and do the d*mn job that some portion of the population elected you to do.  (I have this problem with a lot of politicians these days, but with Trump the next election campaigning this early is ridiculous.)

NYTino24

@curiousfool1 He's spending a lot of time about 30 minutes from where I live in NJ at his golf course instead of in the White House. It's causing a lot of problems.

littlemissc17

He seems to have more free time than I do and I'm only running my house, not the White House.