23 Week Viability Milestone!

DuchessOfCambridge

Some of us are getting close! I love this chart, it makes me feel better as the weeks go by!

BayCamp

I breathe easier every week!! 

ShePersisted

What one should keep in mind that even though survival rates have improved these days for premies, there is a lot of severe developmental and long term chronic health issues the child can have if born anytime before 28 weeks. I'm certainly not trying to dampen this but this chart to me is mis-leading in terms of the relief it makes you feel. This may be flammable as people may find survival is enough but I think health is critical for the child's quality of life and I would personally feel most assured when the pregnancy reaches at the point when severe health issues were minimal which as I have read is really about 28-29 weeks. 

maegpie

@ShePersisted I somewhat agree. 23 weeks I still breathe a little easier but with DD I had an emergency appendectomy at 24 weeks. They brought in the NICU team to talk to us prior just in case something happened and they needed to deliver. It honestly scared me so much when they explained how small she would be and the challenges she would face. 

RiverSong15

@ShePersisted If that's flammable, I'll sit in the same boat with you. I feel the same way. I'm actually nervous now that we're heading into viability soon. I was reading that the long-term disability rate is comparable to the survival rate (e.g., if the survival rate is 90%, then 90% of the babies who survive will be fine long term, and 10% will have major disabilities). While I am absolutely grateful for every week I carry this little one, I feel like third tri will be more of a relief for me than viability. Not trying to rain on anyone's parade here! Just sharing my own thoughts. I definitely see how great it can be to celebrate as many milestones as possible!

BayCamp

I don't think anyone is saying they hope to have a preemie, but I'd rather take disabilities and survival over losing him altogether. We have 2 micro preemies in my family that are now 8 and 5 and I couldn't imagine not having them here, even with their issues. Obviously I want to carry him to 40 weeks (and most likely past that) but if something happened I'm glad that the odds grow in his favor every week. 

NYTino24

*TW* You'll see a lot of moms who have had losses not put too much stock in percentages and chances. That's not us trying to provoke anxiety in anyone. @ShePersisted is right. 10-35% is not something I'll breathe easy with. I do have friends with superpremies born just after viability, but one spent 9 months in the NICU and had 7 surgeries. Now she has a G tube until she's at least 3. The other was in the hospital for 6 months and had all sorts of issues with brain bleeds. It is great that they have a chance of survival at 23 weeks, but it's still scary and many babies are stuck in the hospital often until their due dates or past. My nephew was born 2 days early and still needed heart surgery, so he was stuck in the hospital for months. You can't live in fear and there is nothing you can do, but thing is you just never know at any gestation. */TW*

DuchessOfCambridge

BayCamp said:

I don't think anyone is saying they hope to have a preemie, but I'd rather take disabilities and survival over losing him altogether. We have 2 micro preemies in my family that are now 8 and 5 and I couldn't imagine not having them here, even with their issues. Obviously I want to carry him to 40 weeks (and most likely past that) but if something happened I'm glad that the odds grow in his favor every week. 

This exactly. This thread wasn't meant to be "oh boy, my baby can survive I hope he's born early!" No. Pregnancy is full of so many fears, it's nice to know IF something were to go wrong, the odds would be in the baby's favor. That's all. This was meant to be positive and reassuring. 

bcashaw

I feel lile this thread went of track a bit. Personally i love charts and statistics like this that make me feel better. I like knowing that if god forbid something happened my baby isnt 100 percent gone. I get whats being said about quality of life and all that, and i cant give a perspective from someone who has had a loss because i havent. Others may not choose to find comfort here, but i do, and others who do i encourage to find the comfort. 

ShePersisted

I am not sure how and why this thread is suddenly defensive. I just reflected on a true reality of the statistic shared and just stated it means different for me but it may not for others. For me personally, survival at an early stage with developmental delays gives me no relief which does not mean every woman should be in the same boat.  It's not meant to refute or argue. It's a different perspective. Like @BayCamp shared in her experience, survival is a big deal. But for many like me and @NYTino24 , it might not be any relief and frankly more stressful.  It's just two perspectives on how we look at at medical fact. To me looking survival stats alone is mis-leading as I have first handed seen what it can do to the quality of life of a family and the child. If I were to look at stats on this topic, I rather look at survival with minimal or non severe developmental issues. 

bcashaw

@ShePersisted understood, not trying to seem defensive, just imputting my opinion/how i see it 

cottingham3

Ok ladies, I have to chime in. You all know that I have a 4.5 year old born at 26 weeks (to the day). He is still small (3rd pecential in weight and 10th in height) but he is perfect. We left the NICU with no tubes or monitors 2 days before his due date. He never required surgery or had a brain bleed or any sort. He DID spend 3 weeks on an osolating ventilator and got pneumonia could not be held. His eyes were still fused at birth and they opened about a week later. He is perfect. And, I do not just mean from a mommy point of view. Early on he had delays, but as of today he is above his age range in every physical, social, and abilty level test. Just today he began swimming 100% independently. He is perfect. The three months without him at home were HELL. Although he was my 3rd NICU baby, it was torture and I do not wish it on anyone!!

Now, I have a very close friend who has 26 week 3 days twins. Her son is DD and smaller than my son. He continues to develop and catch-up with peers. He had issues with one eye but it was corrected with surgery. Her daughter has CP and is chair bound at this time but has worked VERY hard to walk with a walker. She loves life and is a pure joy to be around.

I also have friend with 23 and 24 week twins. Thats right, they were born a week apart! They both stuggle with issues due to autism and the 23 weeker has more severe issues and is non-verbal.

Yet another friend had 26 week triplets one month other than my son. Two have no issues and one was in the hospital for over a year and required a feededin tube until just recently (around 4 years old).

  Now, it you look at the chart it is taking about survival rates. Speaking for my self and the other mom's mentioned we would NOT trade one moment of pain, fear, worry, dispare, for our babies! I understand if you do not rest easy, but precentages (even on the health issue side) mean very little to me! If you were to combine the presentages of things that could go wrong with all of the sitations that my son faced it would have been a 0% chance that he could have no health or social issues. But, here here he is! I know some would never share there little one's face on TB but I just must let you see for yourself!

**Also, you might talk with your DR about your hospital's policy on viability. There are hospital who will not perform any type of efforts on babies born before a certain threshold no matter the cirumstances or wishes of the parents.

maegpie

Sorry guys I didn't mean to seem confrontational I actually like this thread and celebrating each week we make it. I was just providing a personal experience and the fear that came with being faced with the potential of a delivery at 24 weeks. 

laura3+2

I was just talking to my husband about this earlier! I had 26 week twins, one was the size of a 24 weeker, the other was on for 26 weeks. I get excited as we get closer to the 24 week mark, because we got to see what a baby at that gestation looks like and it's kind of neat! It's also nice to know how many kiddos born that early do survive and have no issues! Breathe easy mamas, we're almost in the "safer" zone!!! Woo hoo!

ShePersisted

I totally get the fact that there is a possibility of having a perfectly healthy child even with very early premies. I totally get that and I hope and pray our technology gets to the point where they can provide the care needed so that survival rates indeed mean what they stand for. Unfortunately, the reality is all about odds of what that healthy survival is.  Perhaps looking at the outcomes listed on the site below gives sense of what point I'm trying to bring to attention here. I have very close friends who had premie children and they will not trade their child for anything in the world and neither would I - developmental issues or not.  But that's not the point any of us are arguing. The point i am making is that just looking at survival rates as listed in the OP in pure black and white is perhaps not the best way to look at it. 

https://www.preemiesurvival.org/info/

ineedsixeggs

I think the point of this thread was celebration. Certainly we all still have fears, but those fears don't need to be perpetuated before they even come to pass. And there are other places to discuss them. 

cottingham3

@ShePersisted I totally get the point you are making and I do like the link you shared. It is important to be informed and realize what you could face.

However, the fact of the batter is in a well informed group of ladies like we have the likelihood that one of us will have a preemie for no "known" or "caused" reaon is pretty high. With that siad, I hope those reading can take away hope from both your link of infotmation and my testimonial. 23 weeks brings hope for me (no matter the other odds of disability) because I know my hospital will fight to give my baby a chance at that point in gestation.

RiverSong15

I don't fully understand why this thread has become defensive. I, and a few others, were sharing our opinion of when we'd feel celebratory, and providing a different perspective, that viability is not the big milestone we're looking forward to. I don't think anyone was implying that someone else celebrating this milestone would want their baby to be born this early, or even that they shouldn't celebrate reaching this milestone at all. I think I even said celebrating any milestone can be great, and personally I find at least small milestones every month to be helpful. I just appreciated @ShePersisted's links and facts so that I could be more informed about when the chances for best quality of life catch up with plain survival. I never gave much thought to what viability actually looked like before this pregnancy, and having that information has been really helpful for me in how I think about my pregnancy. Reaching viability is great - reaching 30 weeks is better, and full term is best. Just because the stats on disability are unpleasant facts, or that it's a different way of looking at this milestone from others on the board, doesn't mean this is the wrong thread for the discussion. 

DuchessOfCambridge

The reason it got defensive was because this was meant to be a thread celebrating milestones, specifically the ability of our babies to survive outside the womb should something go wrong, and it felt like what was being said in return was "well don't get too happy because x y and z". This chart shows survival only. I would hope we'd all do enough research/have done enough to understand many babies would have difficulty before full term. That's why full term is a thing. 

Anyway, it seems the celebratory vibe of this thread is now gone so let's just let this one die. 

kissthesky32

ooodalollly said:

I think the point of this thread was celebration. Certainly we all still have fears, but those fears don't need to be perpetuated before they even come to pass. And there are other places to discuss them. 

Yes! Completely this.

MaximumEffort

 I see this thread as celebratory, the ladies due before us all have "viability celebration" threads, just like we had a "halfway there" thread. I for one like making it to 20 weeks because then the L&D part of a hospital will see you for anything. Before that most hospitals don't let you go anywhere but an ER, from personal experience. 

ShePersisted

RiverSong15 said:

I don't fully understand why this thread has become defensive. I, and a few others, were sharing our opinion of when we'd feel celebratory, and providing a different perspective, that viability is not the big milestone we're looking forward to. I don't think anyone was implying that someone else celebrating this milestone would want their baby to be born this early, or even that they shouldn't celebrate reaching this milestone at all. I think I even said celebrating any milestone can be great, and personally I find at least small milestones every month to be helpful. I just appreciated @ShePersisted's links and facts so that I could be more informed about when the chances for best quality of life catch up with plain survival. I never gave much thought to what viability actually looked like before this pregnancy, and having that information has been really helpful for me in how I think about my pregnancy. Reaching viability is great - reaching 30 weeks is better, and full term is best. Just because the stats on disability are unpleasant facts, or that it's a different way of looking at this milestone from others on the board, doesn't mean this is the wrong thread for the discussion. 

Thank you! Exactly this. I feel like I shared what I personally felt and got attacked for sharing my perspective. Celebrate away if you want to and I don't think anyone here will say wait to celebrate at any stage. Heck I celebrate every single week when I get a week further along. I knew this would be flammable so I'm not really offended that some of us feel differently but i honestly just shared that it's not really any relief for me as I don't think looking at 17% survival means anything to me as a milestone and I rather wait for 28 weeks or further along. I shared some additional stats on this milestone and just brought home the fact that the term 'viability' in this stage can be misleading in terms of what it can actually mean. 

NYTino24

I'm still celebrating 23 weeks when I get there and for everyone else who gets there! Hell, I celebrate being pregnant every day! No one was trying to be Debbie Downers. We are all making miracles here. 

liz4382

The fact is, there are no guarantees no matter atwhat GA our babies are born. I can go into stories about preemie babies I have known who are now healthy children, or full-term babies I know who have disabilities. Every pregnancy and child is different and we can't always control what happens--we love our children no matter what!!  But I know for me, as someone who has suffered a loss, making it to 23 weeks is HUGE. I can't even describe what it will mean to me.  Knowing that, if I start getting contractions and bleeding, my child isn't necessarily gone?  I obviously don't want that to happen, and I'm terrified of it, but I still will feel a million times better about that possibility once I hit 23 (and every other week after). 

bklynchica

The fact that hitting the viability milestone doesn't bring the same relief to others does not take away from the slight relief it brings me. Put me in the not offended camp.

TW
That said, I'll post about this with more detail elsewhere (not sure where yet) but I spent Saturday night in the hospital with excessive contractions and hearing the doctor say that at 21 weeks there is nothing they could do was really upsetting. I'll feel a very small amount of relief at 24 weeks, and at this point, I'll be happy to make it to 30.

foxaírt

ShePersisted said:

Thank you! Exactly this. I feel like I shared what I personally felt and got attacked for sharing my perspective. Celebrate away if you want to and I don't think anyone here will say wait to celebrate at any stage. Heck I celebrate every single week when I get a week further along. I knew this would be flammable so I'm not really offended that some of us feel differently but i honestly just shared that it's not really any relief for me as I don't think looking at 17% survival means anything to me as a milestone and I rather wait for 28 weeks or further along. I shared some additional stats on this milestone and just brought home the fact that the term 'viability' in this stage can be misleading in terms of what it can actually mean. 

This happens a lot lately 

kissthesky32

No one got "attacked" here. It was a civil discussion about how each person felt. Calm down.

ineedsixeggs

I was under the impression that most of the women on our board are very aware that their babies aren't fully developed yet. But still choose to celebrate a chance at life.

There are also several women here who have children with disabilities. 

If you don't feel celebratory yourself, sure, that's understandable. But the thread was created as a place to celebrate. 

You don't go to a birthday party and say "Well that's great and all, but statistically speaking you could still be in a life altering car accident, so don't get too excited." 

bcashaw

ooodalollly said:

I was under the impression that most of the women on our board are very aware that their babies aren't fully developed yet. But still choose to celebrate a chance at life.

There are also several women here who have children with disabilities. 

If you don't feel celebratory yourself, sure, that's understandable. But the thread was created as a place to celebrate. 

You don't go to a birthday party and say "Well that's great and all, but statistically speaking you could still be in a life altering car accident, so don't get too excited." 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHABAHAHABAHAHHHAHAA. 

ShePersisted

bcashaw said:

ooodalollly said:

I was under the impression that most of the women on our board are very aware that their babies aren't fully developed yet. But still choose to celebrate a chance at life.

There are also several women here who have children with disabilities. 

If you don't feel celebratory yourself, sure, that's understandable. But the thread was created as a place to celebrate. 

You don't go to a birthday party and say "Well that's great and all, but statistically speaking you could still be in a life altering car accident, so don't get too excited." 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHABAHAHABAHAHHHAHAA. 

That's just ridiculous and mean right here and this is EXACTLY why it felt like an attack. Did I ever imply what you say above?  Did any one ever say that? Why would you be so harsh? 

I simply said hey btw 'viability' may not be the right thing here to celebrate as even survival can have very horrible outcomes. This is precisely why there are organizations like march of dimes. These studies and charts reveal these stats and a lot of women are misinformed on what it really means for them and their babies. Dr's too in fact push for earlier c-secs because they don't really care about the difference between 38 vs 39 weeks of pregnancy. If I did my part on just reflecting the reality of the statistics shared in a thread that talks about how the chart makes them feel better, I don't think I did anything wrong. 

And to give an absolutely ridiculous example and then laugh about it like 'Oh you can still die in a car crash' is just spiteful to draw home a point that has no fucking relevance to the topic. If you don't like what was shared that's fine but don't mock someone who is trying to give information to a bunch if moms who may not look into the reality of premature birth risks. We celebrated 14 weeks and are there people who lost their babies after 14 weeks? yes, are there people who lost their kids at birth? yes, but we were happier because 'statistically' the chances of that happening are less. But that's not the case for premature births at 23-24 weeks for majority of folks, so if some us feel like we want to wait longer to celebrate and voiced our opinion on it, take it like that and stop mocking moms for feeling differently. Like others have said, if you want to share a post about how it makes you feel and celebrate this milestone pls do but stop defending your way is the right way. It's because you want a thread to have a certain positive feel does not necessarily mean the whole board has to. 

ElizabethSchuyler

Viability means a lot to me as high risk. Yes, I know the risks but I also know that each day past V Day is a shot. A shot my body wasn't able to give. Doctors and nurses will take over for me so I can take my baby home one day. 

No, I don't want that for my child or family. Yes, the tremendous guilt to come along with that would be possibly more than I could handle. I know the risks but I also know I might not have a choice. Those small percentages will help me if I need them. 

Viability is hope. Hope when my body fails me that my doctors, his team, and any doctor and nurse who attends to my child can give my baby a fighting chance at life. It's a very small chance to start and gets greater with each day I remain pregnant. But it starts at viability. It's okay to celebrate that. Boy, does it scare the shit out of me, and I understand why someone might not want to feel a small sigh of relief so soon. 

I'm still counting down my days. We'll get there and each day after symptom free will be a good day for us. 

ShePersisted

@ElizabethSchuyler well said and that makes a lot of sense. I accept and respect your perspective. And that's the spirit of the thread to me and there is no reason to not celebrate every milestone for that reason. There also no harm in expressing the fear in this milestone and wanting to wait to feel celebratory. 

NYTino24

That's not what is happening here at all. In fact, it's the opposite. Percentages were given and people discussed them. There was no attack on anyone and there never has been on this BMB as far as I'm concerned. People are free to post what they like and sometimes other people disagree. We are all adults here and sometimes people read tone into typed words. Sometimes their guess on the intention is right, sometimes it's wrong, and sometimes there was no intention. There really isn't need for passive aggressiveness or direct aggression from anyone. Everyone here wants to meet their baby and we all count down the days. No one is saying anyone shouldn't celebrate when they feel like it and no one else is saying someone else should. So @DuchessOfCambridge if you wanna start another viability celebration thread, people can post their party gifs there. Sorry this one turned away from your objective.