IF/Testing Weekly Check-in 4/24

heatherdubrow

beesnhoney said:

I have to say reading through this thread has helped relieve a lot of my anxiety. I'm very early in the IF workup process (after months of suspicion and wrong diagnoses recently diagnosed with non-ovulating PCOS, just got AF after provera challenge) and have been freaking out a little about what this all means, what kind of journey will this be? Reading through this and seeing all you brave women has helped me feel much less alone and scared. So thanks!

I have PCOS as well. Feel free to ask questions!

KristoKekerooni

@ratparade - It's likely (not sure how likely, but definitely fairly good) that since it's just quality and not quantity that he could see an improvement! With that knowledge I would definitely push to check for the varicoceles. 

And ahhh. The telephone game of "what exactly did the doctor say" *Insert eyeroll* ahah. 

sunniegrly

Update: for those of you who have been following my testing, I FINALLY got AF today a full week after finishing the Provera. I'm feeling encouraged. Next step are my 21 day hormone tests (which will now, fortunately, not need to be done when I'm out of the country for 2 weeks). Sending out many hugs to all of ya'll for the support and advice you've given me while I waited for AF. I don't know how I would've stayed sane during that wait without ya'll. Ya'll are the best. 

JuneRoseRuby

@KristoKekerooni @RatParade Did you guys push for the frag testing? or did your docs recommend it? I am curious since it wasn't mentioned to me for MH's first SA, and since we are planning a repeat next month, I am wondering if I should ask for it. 

**Edit, I should have tagged @sjb2215 for this question... do you have any answers for me? Thanks! 

RatParade

@JuneRoseRuby No one mentioned it to me, I hadn't even heard of it before now.  But we haven't seen the urologist yet.  The SA was just ordered as part of all the initial testing.

sjb2215

@KristoKekerooni MH has bilateral varicoceles grade 3 (so palpable) on the L and grade 2 on the R. The surgical option presented to us was a microsurgical varicoelectomy, not sure if that is the same thing as embolization? His testosterone was in normal limits (on the low end), so not sure if that's why clomid hasn't been recommended to us? I have heard others discuss FertilAid so I would like to discuss with the dr as to why Coast was recommended over that. MH is trying to get a hold of the dr to ask some questions/get another consult appointment to talk about all options before we decide on surgery. DNA frag index was 31% (our sheet lists <20% normal, but 30% is considered borderline, so just above that), oxidative stress adduct 4.5uM (<3.8 normal, 4.4 borderline) and high DNA stainability was 8% (<15% normal). Haven't read up much yet regarding these tests, but being close to the "borderline" has me wondering how much this will impact everything. I've got a lot of research to do! We have yet to meet with the doctor after the DNA results so I appreciate the info that you shared regarding how much of a factor the DNA stuff is, I also wonder if fixing the varicoceles could help with DNA stuff? No worries on the questions, I appreciate having someone else to discuss this stuff with so any info you already have really helps. It really is crazy that more is not known about this part yet. I hope everything goes well with YH surgery.

@RatParade Ditto to what @KristoKekerooni said about another SA- most urologists like to see 2 SAs anyway to get more points in time to see if it's an accurate picture. You could ask about doing the DNA frag with the 2nd one. 

JuneRoseRuby

@RatParade oops, it was @sjb2215 that had the DNAfrag testing done. ETA, this is an ignorant question, but does the varicoceles have an impact on DNA damage? or is that separate from the varicoceles? And for what it is worth, MH's testosterone was in the low normal also (433 I believe) and they still put him on clomid as a hail mary.  It is bringing his FSH and T up, so we are hopeful for the next SA

TravelingCouple

Jumping in to say I'm so excited you can jump back in @heatherdubrow and am cheering you on every step of the way!

Also just wanted to say that I also understand the feelings of having a pregnant sister @aurora1973 @vflux33 and all of the feelings that go along with it...My sister is halfway through her pregnancy with her first that she got ktfu with when they were "umm I think we'll start trying OOPS wow did we just get pregnant the first month?!" kind of thing. I have so many feelings of guilt for not being involved in her first pregnancy and then feeling justified to have my own feelings and that they are valid too. It does sting and is a different kind of emotional roller coaster when it's a sister. My sister has hardly asked about our current treatment plan and doesn't even know we're on a break. She's hurt I don't ask about her pregnancy, but I'm hurt she never asks about my treatment. The other day we were talking on the phone and she was complaining that the nurse who drew her blood for a test missed and popped her vein. I understand that sucks, but all I could think was do you have any idea how many times I've had blood drawn and it's for no good reason other than to check my hormone levels? And then the guilt settles back in.

Anyway, just sending you both love and I hear you  

vflux33

@TravelingCouple Thank you for putting your experience out there. That sounds pretty rough. I'm close with my sister, which is a blessing and a curse in this scenario. It's only been like 36 hours and she is definitely asking about my treatments, which is great, but she is also talking about her pregnancy with zero filter and has already violated the "guidelines" we agreed to last night (in part since she's a hypochondriac, which was heightened in her previous pregnancies too). I can't be mad at her though since she is going through such a hard time herself...  Sending all the  back at you. Are you at the fun Hawaii part of your break yet?

TravelingCouple

@vflux33 I'm glad you're close to your sister, it's such a special relationship. My sisters are I are best friends so it's been really hard to have this between us. I know it's a season though and it'll pass. And like you mentioned in your other post, of course I'll love my coming nephew (or niece for you )

We leave for Hawaii on May 15! I'm so excited. Most of the planning is set, just some last minute figuring out which days we want to do what. It's nice not knowing where I'm at in my cycle..but I realized that may mean having my period while in Hawaii and not being prepared for it! The one downside to not knowing the day it'll come. I may be buying some damn expensive Hawaiian tampons.

vflux33

@TravelingCouple Yeah, I'm sure it will pass--my sister and I go through phases too. 

Ha! Yeah you should bring your cheaper lower 48 tampons for sure. We went to Kauai for our Honeymoon and loved it, but it's true, every little thing there is like a million dollars.

Have an amazing trip--you've earned it! 

heatherdubrow

@TravelingCouple thanks girl! I'm sorry about your sister. That sounds so difficult to navigate and so painful to try to deal with.

beachbunnyxo123

@KristoKekerooni praying that your husbands surgery goes well and smoothly and that the procedure does everything that it's supposed to do. Keep us posted  

@TravelingCouple so sorry girl, I can only imagine all the feels. Your trip is coming up so soon!!! I hope that you have a great time!  

AFM I went for my progesterone (cd 20) BW yesterday. Since I did femara this cycle my RE wanted to see my progesterone level over 15 (not sure why this level should be higher than an unmedicated cycle, last cycle my level was an 11.9 which they said was good. Anyone know why this is?) anyhow my level from yesterday was 20.8 so they said that was a good level so I was glad to hear the meds did what they were supposed to. 

sjb2215

@JuneRoseRuby sorry I didn't see your tag at first girl. Prior to our first appointment with the urologist MH had 2 SAs done and then at our initial appt the Dr recommended another and suggested to do the DNA grab in addition (I believe they had to send out for that part of the test). The way he explained it was since we already knew MH had low count this was another more advanced test to run. I'm curious if fixing the varicoceles would also improve it because the way they were described to us the veins might be increasing heat in the area and that could be impacting everything. Still need to do more research on my own though. And thanks for the info on Clomid I think that's the ballpark of what MHs was too.

Aurora1973

@travelingcouple Hugs to you, too, honey.  My SIL had that experience…they literally got KU on the first cycle, and she's due in August.

It's so much to handle, trying to be happy because babies are awesome…but you and @vflux33 are right that this is just a season and it will pass.

@heatherdubrow Welcome back!  FX this FET is the one!! 

AlohaKumu

TravelingCouple said:

I may be buying some damn expensive Hawaiian tampons.

That made me think of our tampons having little palm trees and umbrella drinks to be extra fancy for tourists. Ha ha! You can usually find reasonably-priced tampons at the ABC stores or ask for suggestions wherever you are staying. The ladies will help you out with some aloha spirit

TravelingCouple

@AlohaKumu haha! If they looked liked that I'd bring a whole bunch back to the mainland, cost aside!

[Deleted User]

@heatherdubrow. Yay!  So happy to hear you're back in the ttc game! :D 

@JuneRoseRuby. Glad to hear YH is responding well to the Clomid!  DHs T is through the roof! But so is his FSH... :/ so fx it's still going to boost our chances when retrieval day comes...

ReesaAnne16

 @sjb2215  My DH has high DNA fragmentation (43%) and was put on the coast supplement by his urologist. It seems to have improved his motile count slightly, but it didn't improve his DNA fragmentation much (retest was 39% which is still very high). If your DH has a known varicocele, surgery for that would probably be more effective than a supplement. My DH does not have a varicocele so we're not sure where the DNA frag is coming from  good luck. 

KristoKekerooni

Sorry this is so late, I don't bump on weekends!


@JuneRoseRuby - I didn't push. The RE we saw "specialized" in MFI, so she suggested it. Apparently it's the testing is relatively new and fairly debated, so it doesn't surprise me that it wasn't offered. I don't think every place is even equipped to do the testing. 

@sjb2215 - Hey, so H's were subclinical at first check, now they're grade three (bilateral as well). As I have said before, I'm not really hopefully but //shrug. What is interesting (or stupid?) they never checked my H's levels. I don't know why, I should have asked, but never got around to it. I never thought he was low because he doesn't have any of the classic symptoms, but I guess we will never know. As far as surgery/embolization, they are actually different. They have the same efficacy, but the embolization is less invasive and has a shorter recovery period. 
It's interesting that the DNI levels were listed as above 30%, because we were told 25%, and our level was 26%... I can't remember what sustainability was listed at, but I remember we were also at 26%, I think. Interestingly, we also saw he had an infection at the time, but I have no idea (and can't find any research) about whether or not that could have impacted his numbers. 
I've also tried to research the varicocelectomy/embolization to see if it should affect the levels, but no dice- I can't find anything. 
In my mind, though, it absolutely should. Heat naturally denatures DNA, and to have something so relatively unstable be under so much pressure...? I think so. I guess we will see?