Surrogacy

rainbowwishes5

anyone here know of a good site for third party reproduction? I'm having my 4th cp. my womb is a tomb. Nothing can live there.

mtpbadger

@rainbowwishes5 I really hate that you may have to explore this path as well.

I'm just in my initial stages of looking into surrogacy but my clinic gave me a list of agencies and attorneys they have worked with so that's where I started. DH and I have an initial consult with one of them tomorrow just to get more info on this whole thing. I am more than happy to share any info I get! 

rainbowwishes5

Thank you @mtpbadger!!!!

AngryBull

I am so sorry for your losses, @rainbowwishes5.  No one deserves to go through so much heartbreak.

I just had my 5th FET cycle cancelled due to thin lining with little to no hope that I will ever be able to transfer and carry any of my embryos.  So my DH and I are just starting to explore gestational surrogacy.  I will meet with my RE in the next week or so to discuss and he will provide me with a list of attorneys and agencies. They can't recommend or refer (for ethics/professionalism reasons, I believe) but my RE said they do a lot of GC transfers and they have high success rates.  I'm also happy to share what I learn after the meeting.

Also, as I've been doing research on my own over the last month or two I found this map helpful to identify the specific statutes/laws that apply in my state: https://www.creativefamilyconnections.com/us-surrogacy-law-map

And there is an "personal story" article on FertilityIQ from someone who's done surrogacy a couple times where she shares info on strategies she used to help save money. Not sure how many will turn out to be helpful but I thought it was a good read.

Again, I'm sorry about your cp.

artemis618

I'm so sorry to hear this @rainbowwishes5

rainbowwishes5

Thank you @AngryBull

thank you @artemis618

liljoy-2

@rainbowwishes5 I don't know about surrogacy, but wanted to tell you I am really sorry for your losses. I've followed your journey on the previous IVF months. Did you end up transferring your embryos? I remember you wanted to keep banking first. Again, very sorry, surrogacy can be a good solution. 

rainbowwishes5

@liljoy no transfer. This was a "natural" conception. I just can't seem to keep them beyond 4 weeks max and I've had all the work-ups done. There is no reason I keep losing them. Thanks, though.

liljoy-2

@rainbowwishes5 Oh, I see. Not that I am an expert or anything, but you may still wait and see if the PGS normal embryos transferred with various medicated cycles can work. I know there are multiple ways you can prep for transfer. I, for example, did letrozole, hcg shot and steroids. Other people do estrogen/progesterone, other do immunology infusions, or uterine scratches/ERA.

rainbowwishes5

Thanks @liljoy but I have now lost 5 embryos and have tried most of what you suggest. And my gut and my body tell me that I can't carry a baby past 4.5 weeks. Plus I have to do a retrival for every transfer. So it is f like I've got loads of embryos lying around just waiting to be experimented with. I want the only 2 I have to live- and their best bet is to do that outside of me.

mtpbadger

DH and I put together a list of questions we will be asking this afternoon and I though it might be helpful to share here (I hope I attached it correctly!) I'll update later today as well with any information I get!

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AngryBull

Excellent list, @mtpbadger.  Thanks for sharing!

rainbowwishes5

Thank you @mtpbadger!!

mtpbadger

The meeting went well and we got a TON of information. The realization of just how expensive this whole process will be is starting to set in and makes me a little ill to think about. She charges a flat fee for services ($25,000) then there's the surrogate fee ($28,000+) and expenses which include maternity clothes, travel, lost wages, insurance deductibles, medications, etc ($10,000 to $18,000). 

The woman we met today has been doing this for 24 years, does the matching and all the legal work for the intended parents (contracts, pre or post birth orders, etc) and then helps coordinate legal work if anything needs to be done in the state the surrogate delivers in (for both the parents and the surrogate). It's not so much an agency but a team of three that does everything from start to finish so it's a pretty small operation. She's worked with my REs clinic forever and is really familiar with their requirements and parameters so that was good to hear. 

We have alot of info to review (financial particulars, sample contract, etc) and we will prob try and meet with a few other agencies to compare and see what we like best. 

We were told that that if we did go with this particular one, it would take about 8-9 months to match but then the process goes fairly quickly. They do very thorough screening before hand to include medical and psych and also require each surrogate to have their own insurance (we could potentially match sooner if we wanted to pay gestational carrier insurance but thats about $30,000!) so right now she has about 8 surrogates waiting for open enrollment before matching them. 

DH told me that this is the first time he's really been nervous throughout this whole IF journey, which made me even more nervous but also made me feel better in a way. I still get sad thinking this is probably our new reality and I won't get to experience a pregnancy, but I'm glad this option exists. 

AngryBull

Thanks for reporting back, @mtpbadger!

We've just started doing our research but so far the costs I've seen match up almost spot on to what you listed.  I've been bracing myself for $55-70k - not including any IVF treatment that I might end up needing, such as another retrieval cycle.  And I'm also finding that often the agency and the attorney are one in the same, or more like a team that works together as you described.

That part about the surrogate being required to have their own insurance sounds like a great idea to me.  I haven't seen that anywhere yet but it makes sense.

We have our post-consult with our RE scheduled from next Tuesday. I'm sure we'll get some info then and then we'll probably start the process of setting up some meetings with agencies.  I'll definitely report as I get more info.

I completely agree on just being sick to your stomach about possibly having to spend this much.  I waffle between sadness and anger. Not anger at anyone in particular, but just angry that this is the path before us and that it seems so easy (from my admittedly jaded perspective) for so many other people to start their families.  I remind myself everyday that things are rarely fair in life.  And I am constantly repeating "be grateful that these options are available, be grateful that you are in a position to even be able to consider them."  I hope if nothing else IF has made me a more empathetic person.  It better - if not I'm just going to come out of this experience a bitter, cynical witch 

2MomsHoping

@rainbowwishes5

I saw you mention that you did all the tests and things came back normal (I feel ya' on that one).  Anyway my RE said for my case that the issue is likely egg quality by process of elimination.  I also have 2 frozen left.  We are going to do another IVF take whatever we get from that along with the two frozen and send them all for PGS.  PGS doesn't guarantee a pregnancy but it does cut down the chance for the heartbreak of early loss.  For my next step it would actually be taking my eggs out of the equation and going with a donor embryo.  Have you talked to your RE about if they think embryo or uterus is the most likely culprit.  I would just hate for you to go through everything with a surrogacy if your little embies weren't PGS positive.  It would be the worst heartbreak of all.

Hugs.

rainbowwishes5

@2MomsHoping thanks for considering this. My 2 blasts both tested normal and I'm 33 so odds are at least 1 of the 5 embies I carried was ok. Probably more like 2-3. But we'll never know of course. 

@angrybull I am mostly just a bitter witch now! Lol but I have learned A LOT. 

@mtpbadger wowwee! You have learned a lot! My coordinator said off the bat $60-100k. Makes IVF look cheap and IUI like mere pennies! Eeeep!!

mtpbadger

@rainbowwishes5 I always joked with DH during IVF that we were spending our future child's college fund, with surrogacy that kid better hope for scholarships and plan to elope!

This place we went to today didn't seem to nickle and dime you for everything that I had seen some clinics do ($14,000 just to match and If that fell through for some reason you would have to pay again?! No thank you!) and were pretty straight forward on the costs of everything. I also liked that it was just a flat fee so no surprises, at least with the agency fee. 

rainbowwishes5

@mtpbadger do u mind me asking how you found your agency? Through your clinic? Mine gave me a list.

mtpbadger

Mine gave me a list of both agencies and
attorneys and this one was on there. My DH reached out to a few others but none of them have gotten back to us yet (which doesn't make a good first impression!) The lady we saw today actually helped write a law/statute that just got passed that makes surrogacy legal in DC so she definitely knows her stuff! 

@rainbowwishes5 what area of the country are you in? I'm in Northern Virginia but it's not the friendliest state for surrogacy so most of the places are in Maryland. It only really matters that the surrogate delivers in a surrogate friendly state but depending on the state that you live in dictates how easy getting the pre-birth order is. Virginia doesn't allow them (only post birth order so the birth certificate would have to be changed) so we would have to go through whatever state the surrogate lives in to get our names on the birth certificate right from the beginning. 

rainbowwishes5

@mtpbadger that's helpful to know!!! I live in the northeast so I'm hoping the laws are pretty "liberal" on this stuff here.

Ash_SE

Delaware is a very very surrogacy friendly state for those in the NE. 

rainbowwishes5

@Ash_SE excellent news!!!!!! 

mtpbadger

@rainbowwishes5 how are you doing? I hope you are hanging in there.

AFM - We had requested contact info from the Attorney we met with a few weeks ago for someone that had also used her and spoke with that person last night. All I can say is it was SO good to talk to someone who had actually been through the process. She gave us good insight if we do move forward with the attorney and was VERY honest about her experience. I'm glad that her review wasn't all rainbow and sunshine as that would have made me a little hesitant. It was also nice just getting someone real that's dealt with this, all the emotions, etc. She said something that really struck me - IF is an island and surrogacy is a tiny little island inside of a lake on that bigger island - it's such an isolating experience as not a lot of people are open about it. She offered, if we do move forward with using a GC, regardless of what agency/attorney we go with, to keep in contact with her for any questions, concerns, etc., which was so nice of her.

DH wants to make a decision on which agency to use by the end of the month (eeeek!) so I will keep you all updated!

AngryBull

@mtpbadger - I'm so glad to hear that your call went well! It's great that the woman you spoke with was willing to be honest. There are so few resources and people with real-life experience to talk to, so the more info you can get the better (especially about the emotions and just little things that you might never expect to come up). And anyone who paints an "all sunshine and rainbows" picture is definitely a red flag for  me, too!  That's actually what frustrates me so much about the reviews you find on so many agencies' websites.  I was glad when I asked my RE about his worst experiences and he gave them to me straight-up - at least I knew he wasn't BSing me. 

Thinking about having to go the surrogacy route is so daunting. Some days I'm terrified!  That comment about the island is so true.  As if IF wasn't isolating enough.  Surrogacy just seems so impossible to talk about - almost like it's taboo.  It shouldn't be.  But I find that I'm so worried about what other people will say (there are so many preconceived notions about women who use surrogates, and I completely admit that I was guilty of some of them in the past).  Most of the time my emotions are so fragile these days that I just can't risk bringing it up - not sure I could handle it if someone said something that upset or bothered me.

How exciting that you and DH are going to make a decision by the end of the month!  How many agencies are you planning to speak with/interview in total?

@rainbowwishes5 - I hope you're doing okay. I wanted to let you know that I met with me RE about 2 weeks ago and he gave me a list of agencies he's worked with for GC/third party reproduction. Three were local/regional so they may not be helpful to you (I'm in the southeast - I'm happy to share if you'd like to know the names, just let me know).  The other two seem to be more national in scope (Growing Generations was one and The Surrogacy Experience was the other).  My nurse raved about how easy it was to work with Growing Generations.  I haven't spoken with either - but we will consider GG if we need to.  They had more of a "flat fee" type of structure than some other agencies I've seen.  I'm kind of interested in that because it seems more certain, but to me the agencies with a national/international focus seem to be a bit pricier. We're starting with the local/regional agencies for a number of reasons, one of which is cost (it seems like they are a little less expensive but none of this is affordable).  I wish you all the best.

mtpbadger

@angrybull the woman we spoke with last night said they didn't tell family they were using a GC until they were 7.5 months pregnant. I'm also worried about what people (even close friends and family) think, but then I realize, it's no one's business and I don't have to explain myself. Probably easier said than done though. She also said she actually never met the attorney/agency she went through in person, just did everything over the phone/Skype, and even looked into an agency in Colorado that was more national/international but didn't get such a good feeling. We have another small agency locally that we are going to look into a bit more and possibly one of the bigger ones just to compare. The smaller one is Family Forward Surrogacy. The owner actually used a GC to have her twins, so it will be interesting to see how her experience impacts the process for IPs.

One thing the woman said is that a lot of the agencies tend to be more GC focused, which makes sense, but can be a little off-putting.

Like you, some days I am totally fine with delving more into the GC world and then all of a sudden it hits me what I'm actually doing and I just need to stop. I think that this whole process, until we have a baby in our arms, is going to be like that - fine one minute and then anxious/emotional the next.

AngryBull

@mtpbadger that's so funny - it sounds like the two agencies you're looking into are similar to what we're looking at!  The first one you described meeting with a few weeks ago sounds like the one I'm leaning toward at this early stage.  It's run by an attorney (they actually have several attorneys) who was a pioneer in surrogacy law in my state. They seem very detail oriented and appear to know their stuff.  I also like that their agency fee is flat (and they tell you right away what the amount is) and includes legal fees (it should, since they're you're attorneys!).  The second agency is smaller and was started by a woman who was an IP and had twins born via GC.  

That's an interesting comment from the woman you spoke with on the phone about agencies tending to be GC focused.  And to be honest, it kind of irks me.  Not because I don't want the GC's concerns to be addressed.  But the very definition of an "agent" is that you represent a party.  I suppose some agencies operate in a "dual agency" scenario and say they are acting as agents for both the IPs and the GC.  But I can see how that could get dicey.  And I don't see how dual agency would even be possible in situations where the agency is an attorney - attorneys can't represent two parties on opposite sides of a transaction. 

If we end up using a GC I often wonder about when we would tell people, too - assuming everything worked.  I completely understand the woman you spoke with waiting until the GC is 7.5 months along!  You're absolutely right that it's no one else's business.  I'm pretty confident our good friends and most of our family would be very supportive.  But I also know that the self-protection mechanism inside my brain would be on high alert, and it might just take me a long time to feel "safe" telling other people.

Also, thought I would share with you a few things my RE said about matching with a GC. Based on his experience, he said that things seem to work best when you look for a GC that has characteristics that are similar to you (the IM). Anyone can be an excellent GC but he listed these traits as ones he sees in most of his really happy GC situations: reasonably educated, married with children, not too young (kind of surprised me), and a very supportive spouse/partner (make sure to meet the spouse/partner -my RE requires that he meet the spouse, too).

gwinnyblack

Hi! there are plenty! I can advise you a couple of sites but it is only if you are opting to go abroad. you can contact an agency that consults people on a wide range of fertility issues and options. it's called I believe Happy Family organization although I was introduced to it later on after I have started my first ivf treatment already but they did help me to have a better idea about fertility clinics abroad (which was the preferable option for me and is right now too). well, you just email them and they give you a piece of advice based on your inquiry.
well, you can look also at biotexcom web-site, do not know whether you opt for something like this but at least it worth looking I guess, I've been to their clinic and had ivf tx there. they also have surrogacy programs and have put the examples of their contracts on their web-site. 

anyways, wishing you the best of luck! you are about to make a very important decision in your life and it is really necessary to go with the best here! 
xx

mtpbadger

We tried to set up a meeting with the smaller, local agency but the woman was horrible at getting back to us so I think we are scratching that one off the list. I had such high hopes for it too since the owner has dealt with using a GC herself and it looked good on paper. But if she can't even respond to set up an initial meeting, how is her response going to be if an issue pops up? Plus in her emails back and forth, there were quite a few spelling and grammar errors, which just puts me off.

AngryBull

That is so frustrating, @mtpbadger! But I agree with you - if someone isn't responsive to your inquiries now what are they going to be like during the whole surrogacy process itself.  There's just too much at stake, and this process is so nerve-wracking, to take that chance.  But you would really think that someone who has been through this before would understand!

If it makes you feel better we've reached out to a few places that haven't exactly been quick on responding.  It drives me crazy.  We're practically saying "Hello, we'd like to possibly hand you $50k+."  You'd think they'd get back to you ASAP.  But nope.

Hopefully this is making you feel better about the possibility of proceeding with the attorney/agency you've already met with.  From what you described, they seemed to be very knowledgeable and on-top of things.

AngryBull

@mtpbadger how is the Metformin going?  How many weeks in are you now?  I've been thinking about you and I hope your symptoms are leveling off a bit. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it helps you eventually get a cycle!

mtpbadger

@angrybull I had drafted a response to your other comment but it never posted for some reason! I  must have gotten busy and then never came back to it - oops!

The metformin is going pretty well. I started metformin on 04/05 but only went to the full-dose on 04/25. I know my RE said it can take 2-3 months for anything to happen so I'm keeping my fingers crossed! I'm going to need to call my insurance though, I just refilled and while they gave me 90 pills (so one month), they said my next refill isn't due until July! Not sure how that's supposed to work considering I take 3 pills a day. I'm hoping this doesn't turn into a headache. Some GI issues, especially if I eat like crap but so far the side effects haven't been too bad. Just another incentive to keep eating healthy I guess!

I totally get what you mean about the agencies not being very responsive - we are potentially throwing a lot of money their way, you think they would be calling/emailing back. I honestly think in my gut we are going to go with the first lady we met with. She's responsive, local, and knows what she's doing. Yes, she's a little "cold" around the edges but I think that might be good for me - takes the emotion out of part of it somewhat. This process is emotional enough, having a straight shooter could be a good thing.

The thing I am honestly most nervous/anxious about is telling my immediate family if/when we do get to that point. My siblings don't know that we are dealing with IF and while my parents do and have been supportive, I'm not sure they would totally get it, at least at first.

liljoy-2

Hi ladies,
I'm starting to research the gestational surrogacy route, too. It's likely not in my very near future, but a year or so down the line. I have tested frozen embryos but I won't be able to carry them due to multiple complications I'm having.
To minimize costs, I'd like to go with a known, international surrogate that I can bring over here to the US for implantation and then delivery. She is a bit less expensive than US surrogates and I can avoid the agency/matching fees. The way I understand it now, the costs I have to think of are:
-surrogate compensation
-fertility clinic embryo transfer
-attorney fees
-delivery insurance for the surrogate (I found this insurance company specialized in carrier insurance https://www.newlifeagency.com/sales/products/surrogacy/) 

I'm not sure of the cost estimate for the last two items, attorney fees and medical insurance for the surrogate. Any ballpark estimates? 

mtpbadger

@liljoy, I'm sorry you find yourself thinking about having to use a gestational carrier as well. It's a hard pill to swallow but that's awesome that you might be able to go with a known carrier!

From what I have learned, surrogate compensation can vary depending on what the surrogate is requesting, but usually ranges from $30,000+; attorney fees I would ballpark anywhere from $5,000-$10,000 (I could be way off here) and then the embryo transfer (at least in my clinic) is slightly more expensive than a normal FET. You also have to factor in all the medical screenings and psych evals for both you and the surrogate. The attorney we went with said if we paid out of pocket for medical insurance for the surrogate, it could cost up to $25,000. Otherwise we just pay the premium on whatever insurance the surrogate already has.

Big news!!!! We just signed the retainer with the attorney/agency we decided to go with (the first one we met!) and are sending the funds over today (GULP!). The initial payment, while one lump sum, includes the matching, all the attorney fees which will be put in a trust and paid out at different times (portion now; portion once the carrier is medically cleared; the rest once the carrier is three months pregnant), plus funds to start the expense account for the carrier once we match. I'm not 100% sure what exactly the next steps are, but I think it's just sit and wait until a match is found! I'm trying to let DH handle most of this process (paperwork; finances), as while I've come to terms with this path, I still can't allow myself to think about it too much or get into all the details otherwise I'll just shut down. I think we will try one more FET at the end of July/early August just to see if my lining responds, but I'm glad we are moving forward with the GC process since I know it doesn't happen overnight.

liljoy-2

@mtpbadger Glad the ball is rolling and you're fortunate that hubby is on top of it, it can be quite overwhelming for us...My hubby isn't that hands on so I fear I will be the one dealing with all this hassle once the time comes..

Would you mind keeping me posted on the process as you go? I'm hoping to learn as much as possible on here because there is little info, and not at all transparent, on the process. It sucks that it's so expensive here in the US due to all the paperwork and medical fees, on the other hand, in other countries where GC is not regulated and cheaper (costs run no more than 30k total), the legal risks are not worth taking (e.g. the baby is legally the carrier's, not the genetic parents'). I understand Ukraine has regulations covering surrogacy and it's cheap, but again, you have to be willing to take that leap. 

Hopeful_mom

**lurking***  Still trying and praying I can carry a baby but nervous I may have to look elsewhere so I'm trying to learn as all you brave woman start the process.
(TW)
liljoy I'm sorry you're having such a rough Pregnancy, I hope you're doing ok.  Ur in your 2nd trimester now?  

liljoy-2

@Hopeful_mom Yep, ----TW-----now in my 2nd trimester but I'm having a horrible time. I've been in bed for months, in the hospital for IVs, lost way too much weight (hyperemesis gravidarum), very low blood pressure, I might have placenta previa, ovarian and bladder pains and inflammations, etc. It's going to be C-section for me. So it's pretty clear I won't be able to carry all my other embryos...

Hopeful_mom

liljoy UGH!  so sorry to hear my goodness!  We try so hard and long to finally get that BFP!  You shouldn't have to suffer anymore!  I was trying to keep up with many on the paif boards but getting close to my due date is just getting a lil to hard when i'm still fighting my way to get back there!  Glad they're watching over you and you're taking it easy!  Usually they 2nd trimester is suppose to be enjoyable, sorry it hasn't been!

mtpbadger

Hey ladies - just wanted to check in since this board has been quiet. I'm still waiting for a match through my attorney and talking with my RE about maybe trying another FET to see if my lining responds better after taking a break. It has been nice to take a break for the past few months from all things IF related.

liljoy-2

Still here. Husband and I had an argument yesterday, we plan on having a GC in the future for at least one of our frozen blasts, and he wouldn't hear me out about the staggering costs and facts I've collected online and from you ladies on here. He thinks these costs are over-inflated and that we should just find a surrogate on our own, pay her the customary rate and get an attorney through work that can work for free (as part of benefits) and that's it...I'm not sure it will be that simple, even if we DO find someone ourselves..

AngryBull

Hey @mtpbadger - I'm joining your surrogacy party. I took a break from the Bump (but not necessarily IF) over the summer to figure out next steps. And after lots of thought DH and I decided that going with a GC was the right move for us. We spent the summer researching, interviewing attorneys, scoping out agencies, etc.  And we finally settled on one and signed a contract about a month ago at the start of August.  So now we wait.  Looks like you're waiting to be matched, too. It's so wonderful that you are moving forward - I'm really happy for you!  Just know that you're not alone.

I'm going to try and be a little more active on at least this thread (not sure I really fit in anywhere else) in the coming months.  Hopefully we'll be able to compare notes and stories.

@llljoy-2 I hear you on the staggering costs of surrogacy!  It's definitely sobering. It took me a long time to come to grips with the amount of money we are going to have to spend. I know I am incredibly fortunate to be in a position to be able to even consider surrogacy.  But at the same time, we don't have the kind of money that surrogacy requires just sitting around, ready to spend. Doing this is requiring a tremendous amount of sacrifice. And lots and lots of planning. It seems like you are being proactive and researching a lot about how much surrogacy costs, and well ahead of when you may need it. Which I think is a good thing. The more you can plan ahead the better it will be if you ever decide to use a GC.

You could definitely save money if you were able to find someone on your own to be a GC, rather than going through an agency/attorney.  But the laws are different in every state and it was really important to me that I had an attorney who was experienced specifically in surrogacy in my state (and the state where the GC is located). And so many of the expenses associated with this process really have nothing to do with the GC's compensation, like insurance. Insurance can cost more than what the GC actually gets paid, depending on whether you have to buy a policy, etc.!