TTC Over 35 Weekly Check In (week of 4.10)

vlagrl29

Fx that a lot fertilize @Momifbysea

artemis618

Yay @Momifbysea Fx for a great fert report tomorrow!

amberruka

FX for you @Momifbysea!!!

katekate628

@Momifbysea that's awesome!!! FX for a great report tomorrow!!!

Labluver2

Waiting for AF to arrive in the next day or so hopefully she won't show but she always does. Will call my RE first flow day and hopefully he will give us the OK to start IUI this cycle. 

Why do doctors tell you that stress isn't good when your trying to concieve,but this whole journy is stressful. I've been trying to keep myself busy. Last night went out with friends to painting with a twist. It was actually really fun and I found that painting calmed me and I enjoyed it so I think I may pick up some canvas and paint and paint at home. 

Momifbysea

@Labluver2 of course I hope with you that af doesn't come but if it does, glad you have a plan for IUI. As for infertility stress, my RE has several published peer-reviewed papers on stress and effect on infertility and found that a higher level of stress, also measured by variables such as how critical being a parent was for that person's worldview, or to feel fulfillment in their life, actually led to a higher percentage of IVF success in the study group. Interesting, huh? Regardless, I find I've been much happier in the last few weeks (after having faced major anxiety over starting IVF and all the drugs) since I have consciously been meditating, focusing positively, getting outside for walks, so I'm glad you discovered painting!

SP128

@Momifbysea. 8!! Awesome 

vlagrl29

I know you can't do this @Labluver2 - but I've stopped everything that goes with tracking and timing intercourse.  I pretty much don't give a fucks anymore lol.  Main reason I don't want to do clomid or look for an RE is because it would be really stressful for me.  I've also refocused my life a bit and have added on 2 new violin students to my load.  If I can't be pregnant I'm sure as hell going to be success in my passion for life.

Labluver2

@vlagrl29 once we start this cycle I'm not going to BBT chart if we start IUI or not.  At this point its going to either happen or not. I've finally came to terms with it and I'm not going to let it effect everything in my life so I'm looking for painting classes for beginners lol but I always enjoyed it in school and remember being young and watching Bob Ross paint his happy little trees. Will at least take my mind off everything. 

@Momifbysea wow that gives me hope I have high anxiety and stress all the time. I do yoga to help. Maybe I should look into meditation.

vlagrl29

@Labluver2 that sounds like a great plan. I'm not artistic or crafty in that sense at all.  1 of my goals is for DH and I to go on more dates. Tomorrow night they are doing a yoga workshop class that has some energy work in it. Looks like fun and DH is going with me. 

Im with you on the it either will or will not happen train 

Momifbysea

Ok I got the fertilization report and am disappointed. Of the 8 eggs retrieved, 4 were mature, and 2 fertilized via ICSI. I'm a bit nervous, because I know getting to 5-day blast stage and the freezing and thawing and the testing make this a pretty small chance. I realize it only takes one though so hopefully these are the strong ones. A bit overwhelmed right now. Thinking of if we would do a second cycle squeezed in before this summer's out of state move, coupled with the financial piece.

vlagrl29

sorry about the outcome @momifbysea - I know zip about IVF but I'm hoping 1 of yours makes it.  Would your insurance cover a 2nd cycle of IVF?  It's so expensive if you have to fork over the money yourself.  personally I couldn't do it because not only are you stressed about the entire IVF process but I'd also be stressed about seeing money fly out the window that we don't have.  FX you have a couple strong fertilized embryos.

artemis618

I'm so sorry to hear that, @Momifbysea.  Those two do have a chance - but I feel from where you're coming as my first cycle I had 12 retrieved, 7 mature and ICSI'd, and only 3 fertilized.  I guess I feel like it gave me an early start on my mourning (that cycle did sort of feel like *TW* 7 miscarriages)  - not that you should!  It's good to be realistic and manage your expectations, but try to stay positive too - it's not over yet!

Unfortunately, IVF is just a really expensive and draining (financially and emotionally) iterative process, and I'm sure you've heard before that sadly, first cycles often don't go (as) well (as we'd like them to).  We didn't anticipate that my first cycle would go *quite* that badly as despite our ages, we conceived naturally our second month trying six months prior and were pregnant for a couple of them.  If you can find the resources and strength to do another cycle, a change in protocol can make all the difference.

I know it's extra stressful with the added time pressure at this age - it would be nice to take a break, but time just isn't on our side.  I'm starting temping/OPKs next week to start testosterone priming again this month and Lupron to suppress again next month for IVF#3 myself.

I actually just started reading that book that I think @jennh75b recommended, _Unsung Lullabies_. I'm not very far along in it, but my therapist wasn't really doing anything (I do better with cognitive behavioral approaches), and it takes time to find another one.  I figured it couldn't hurt to see what the authors suggest regarding how to deal with the emotional aspect of going through all this.  It does point out how with IVF we have all of this information through the process, and the attachment that comes with it.

I know your plan was to PGS test (as was ours first cycle), but would you consider a fresh transfer this round?  I didn't with my first cycle
because I had insurance coverage for two, but I began meds to prepare for a fresh transfer just in case after this last egg retrieval because my first one went so poorly.  So many tough decisions with all this stuff.

Again, try to stay positive!  People do have babies from 2 fertilized eggs - it only takes one good one (as people keep reminding me too).  Quantity would give us better odds, but it really is all about the quality.  Fx your two embryos make it all the way!  Take care of yourself *hugs*

Momifbysea

Thanks for your support as always @vlagrl29. If we didn't do the transfer this time and opted for another retrieval cycle, we would have about $3,000 of the $14,500 paid for. My drugs would probably be an additional $5000, unless insurance picked them up, I need to research that. But with moving probably in June, and still not knowing where while my husband graduated in May, it's just a lot for an anxious person like myself. It's not like we are made of money and there's my Sept birthday - I don't even see clinic scores for 43 year olds which is what I will be! Blah. Just blah. But then I think back to - maybe one of these two is the one and I should just chill out! I'm all over the place emotionally right now while I process this.

Momifbysea

Thanks @artemis618 I know you've been through a lot and appreciate your perspective. Our clinic closed for the day- if I was to do a fresh transfer I would have had to let them know today so I could start my PIO shots tonight. That's okay, we are sticking with our testing plan due to our ages. Question- did you have to wait a cycle before stimming again? The nurse today told me they like to do a cycle of BCP in between. Otherwise, I might just jump into another round since we have a little Menopur and Follistim laying around...

artemis618

@Momifbysea I'm just so sorry you're having this day.  I figure it will REALLY make us appreciate the good ones - but it is such a roller coaster.  We were considering maybe going backward to IUIs after doing the two insurance-covered IVF cycles, but after getting ONE PGS normal (for which we're very grateful) of 6 biopsied - I don't like those odds.  So testing makes a lot of sense to me (and that's why we're ponying up for another cycle OOP).

Short answer is "no."  If I had done another antagonist cycle, I would have started OCP for suppression/synchrony on CD3 first cycle after ER and have only been on it for two weeks, stopped, expected a menses four days later (I'm pretty clockwork), and started stimming again.  

But since I didn't do so well on the antagonist protocol, I decided to try luteal lupron (without OCP before so not as suppressive as regular long lupron) for my second cycle.  That involved OPKs to detect natural O (and I temped thru temp spike because I'm anal - but they'd still have brought me in to test progesterone at a certain point if I hadn't gotten a positive to make sure I'd ovulated) then starting lupron for suppression/synchrony around CD21, expecting a menses around the usual time, and starting stims CD2.  I had an extra week of OCP in there before WTO for visibility because I had a hysteroscopy in between cycles to make my sure ute was in tip top shape in case we had opted for a fresh transfer after this retrieval.

So the BCP may just be for suppression/synchrony and not an "extra" cycle on it?  I think 2-4 weeks is normal.  How long were you on it before?  It may depend on your protocol.  Which protocol was this last cycle?

vlagrl29

It might be best for you not to dwell on the "what if" it doesn't work out and looking towards what's next.  I've done it myself too.  With the fertility testing I swore theyd find something wrong with me but they didn't - then I was like well what if my eggs are just weak?  I'm sure they are very strong little guys.

I know you only have 2 but they both may be strong and transferred successfully.  Send out positive vibes to your 2 that did make it and don't count them out yet.  At least you had 2 and not 0.

Momifbysea

@vlagrl29 thanks for catching me on that, I tend to worry, like my mother and her mother. You are right, I have 2, not 0. Seriously, thanks. I will try and be more positive.

@artemis618 I did antagonist with Follistim and Menopur. Before stims I was on BCP for 23 days.

PoeMasque

@Momifbysea ugh, the rollercoaster really never ends! You never know how things will turn out, I did my cycle with a coworker, she got 12 at retrieval and I got 8, we both ended up with two on day 5 (she's much younger than I am). It really is so far from an exact science still! I just want to echo the pp and advocate for a fresh transfer. The biopsy for testing can damage the embryos, so when we only had two I couldn't imagine putting them under any more stress and it saved us $3800 in testing fees. I figured they would work or they wouldn't and we would know in the same time period either way. We had zero insurance coverage though. 

liljoy-2

@Momifbysea It's normal that you are disappointed, but don't forget to look at the half full glass. At your age, it is a good result, I've been on these boards for a long time now and not many ladies (if at all) after 40 have success in their 1st IVF. From all I know and been through, in general 50% of fertilized embryos make it to day 5/6 for testing/freezing and then only less than 50% are normal (but age/quality does play a big role here). If you do decide to try another round, it may make sense to bank (biopsy and wait for the 2nd round before sending for PGS) and do FET. If not, I'd also say to consider fresh without testing, at day 2 or 3 (no point in waiting to day 5). However, if you didn't start prepping the transfer it may be a moot point (although do ask about HCG shot booster which is getting your natural progesterone going). I did PGS testing and out of my 8, only 2 normals and I'm much younger. However, I read then a lot about PGS and there are REs and papers in Europe that show that implanted PGS abnormal embryos led to healthy pregnancies in 50% of cases. That gave me pause and made me decide to try to implant some of my abnormal ones down the line, whether it means going to Europe or not. This is because there is a big margin for error in testing, plus the tested cells are from the periphery of the embryo, and with time some do self-correct (shed the abnormal cells to the exterior). If I were older, I'd probably just trust the test and be done with it. However, I can't shake the feeling that at my age more embryos should be ok. For example, one of them is considered abnormal with 75% confidence. Well, so there is 25% chance it is OK and the protocols in US call for discarding it. I'm not OK with this. 
However, I'm still glad I did PGS testing because one of my embryos had Edwards extra chromosome, so of course that one will definitely be discarded. Similarly if I had one with Down's (which thankfully I didn't). The other abnormalities are chromosomes that can't result in a live birth so the only risk is early m/c if they can't self-correct.

Momifbysea

Thank you @liljoy and @PoeMasque. DH and I have had the chance to talk a lot since the news. We are remaining hopeful for our two that they are the strong ones. We also remain set on PGS after weighing factors unique to our situation. **TW** This will be our second child and we need to consider caretaking and financial requirements for both of them as well as what we could realistically handle at our ages. I have a cousin with CP and my aunt and uncle are having a hard time with lifting a grown man now, for example, and a niece with TaySach's, so I just feel safer testing at my age of 42 when the RE said 1 in 11 of mine would be normal on average**end TW**

i think if we weren't moving this summer and if I wasn't turning 43 soon (with uncertainty that most RE's would still work with me for a subsequent cycle once I got that birthday) then we might feel we would have time to fresh transfer and see how the pregnancy played out, but we don't, so we see PGS and FET as our best bet. I'm feeling better today after letting it all sink in. It's funny because if you asked anyone in my life about me they would describe me as positive, happy nearly all the time, but you see, this has become my safe place to vent "unfiltered" so you all have witnessed my stress and worry at times. Thank you for reading and being so essential in carrying me through this, especially this last cycle! For a girl terrified of pharmaceuticals and needles, I'm proud to be standing on this side of the retrieval! Bring on the butt shots, lol. Seriously, thanks everyone. Hugs.

Labluver2

@Momifbysea will be praying for you. Fx

Momifbysea

Thanks @Labluver2 I appreciate the prayers! How are YOU doing? No AF yet I take it? Isn't this whole journey such a test of patience and letting go?

vlagrl29

Positive vibes to you @Momifbysea

youre the reason I'm still on this board. I want to see your bfp!

Momifbysea

@vlagrl29 aww you're giving me happy tears! And that's genuine, I have no meds in me right now, lol! I'm hanging out to see yours too, I just know it will come.

On a non-fertility note (I know, shocker) I was excited to see you're a violin teacher! My undergrad degree is in music (clarinet) and I taught privately while I was in high school. Who knows, may return to it someday! I also like composing.

vlagrl29

secretly I hope we are both in the Jan 2018 BMB

I went for music education in my bachelors.  Been privately teaching 13 years and play in a trio the last 5 years.  It makes me happy and gives me a sense of purpose

katekate628

@Momifbysea saying a prayer that you have 2 strong ones!! Congrats on making it this far!

Labluver2

@Momifbysea Nope AF hasn't shown yet I keep feeling like she's on her way. I'm usually 27 to 28 days today is cycle day 27. No symptoms really just typical PMS ones. 

Hopefully we will be able to start IUI if AF comes I'm supposed to call my RE day 1 of my cycle. I'm pretty sure I ovulated around the 14th this month. I did an OPT first time doing it and both lines were dark on day 13 and 14 and my temp on my BBT spiked on day 14.

I over think everything and become obsessive so I'm trying to take @vlagrl29 advice and relax and it is what it is kind of attitude. If its ment to happen it will. 

Fx for all of us!!

liljoy-2

@Momifbysea Keeping my fingers crossed for your day 5 embryos. Are you doing PGD? PGS will not tell genetic diseases unfortunately, just the number of chromosomes (only Down's, Edwards, can be identified, which mean one extra chromosome). 

SP128

@Momifbysea little late to this. Fx crossed so hard for you and your two embies 

Momifbysea

@liljoy we are doing PGS. We aren't concerned for the 2 conditions I mentioned, I was just using examples of family members who have had caretaking take over their lives and have shared with me about that and testing regrets. Because of our ages and knowing a greater likelihood for Down's, we feel this test can give us some reassurance. Our RE recommends it for his over-35s. So we are hoping we get some good news Tuesday that our 2 made it to the 5-day stage so the biopsies can be sent to the genetics lab! This is a really long wait!!!

Labluver2

AF showed up yesterday so im waiting for the drs office to call with when I go in for baseline BW and ultrasound. He said we will then discuss our options. I'm only doing IUI at this point. I can at least say I tried something but IVF isn't for me I want a baby but I dont want to be in debt in the process and my insurance covers nothing IVF related. 

@Momifbysea fx for you. A few days seems like a month in this journey. The TWW is brutal it seems like months. I find trying to keep myself busy helps.

Momifbysea

@Labluver2 I'm sorry AF came but so glad you have a plan! I'm with you on the no-IVF without insurance. There's no way we would have considered it without coverage, it is so expensive! Actually having the coverage was probably what pushed me over my fears of going through it. It seemed too good to have the funding to give it a chance!

Labluver2

@Momifbysea yes If insurance covered IVF I would def put my fears aside. I'm hoping it works for you I'll be praying really hard. 

vlagrl29

@Labluver2 - just curious how long have you been TTC?  I know a lot of people think 6 months is the max you should try if you are over 35 but I still believe in the full year TTC.

Labluver2

@vlagrl29 we've been trying on our own almost 3 years 

vlagrl29

Oh ok gotcha. Yeah it's probably time to see the RE but I'm with you on IVF - no thanks. @Labluver2

liljoy-2

@Momifbysea and IVF ladies, just posted something very important in the Infertility forum about my PGS experience...very troubling.

vlagrl29

@liljoy - I'm not doing IVF but that is bizarre.  I can see that though.  I've always refused the tests that came with DD because I felt I didn't want to know and would keep her anyways.  I think I would be the same way with IVF - forego testing because technology isn't always accurate.

Momifbysea

Wow that is strange. We were heavily advised to test and now my mind is everywhere, yikes.