FFFC 3/3/17

TravelingCouple

@antoto You won't hear judgment coming from me. I think there's a far cry between being pissed that you aren't KU in one month and having a gut feeling that something is off and asking a medical professional about it. My last time around on TB I found there to be much more of a consensus that you never go to the RE until it's been a full year if you're under 35, but I don't think it's black and white like that. Charting and temping clues us in to our bodies in a way that I never ever understood before and I say you've gotta trust your judgment if you think something's off. 

aggo

Just jumping in to say @TravelingCouple your feelings are totally valid and legitimate. I don't have any myself, but I desperately want four and that's how many we're planning for. If I got one, two, or even three I would of course be so happy and grateful for each one and so in love with them, but you're right, we all have dreams and I would be so so sad if I couldn't get that fourth. Also, I can't believe you were turned away, that's total BS.

50Wife

@TravelingCouple @antoto I'm definitely calling next week if AF shows her ugly face this weekend
Thank you again for the advice, absolutely appreciated! 
Good luck to both of you 

LoveInDC

@TravelingCouple Jumping in because it was my FFFC that set this whole thing off. I can only speak from my perspective. And from my (short) time on here, there have been certain posters who seem to look for reasons to mention their LOs. You know that friend who just got a boyfriend and now every sentence starts off with "Well, my boyfriend and I...."? You know how you just want to punch them in the face sometimes? That's the feeling/situation I was referencing.

That said, I've had friends on here who are now grads about to become STM+. One of them mentioned her LOs when relevant and I had no issue. Another I didn't know was a STM+ until I saw her on the TFAS thread. I cheered them both on equally the same way I'm cheering on you and everyone else here. We all have our own pain and struggles. This board is exclusively women who want to be pregnant, but aren't. That's pretty depressing. But I think we do a good job of lifting each other up and supporting each other regardless.

Am I envious of ladies on here who already have a LO? Sure. Do I think I have it worse off than other girls here? Not even slightly. But if I feel like someone is so wrapped up in their lives they're being insensitive to others on this board, hell yes it's going to piss me off. That's where I was coming from.

Hugs to you and anyone else who felt attacked by my FFFC or the conversation that followed. I truly did not mean to invalidate anyone's pain or struggles. I hope you all know I'm wishing just as hard for you as I am myself, and I mean that.



ETA: Let me also add my voice to the chorus of ladies agreeing that support group is cruel and ridiculous for excluding you. Have guidelines. Kick people out who break them. But don't making a sweeping rule that hurts all women with secondary IF who could use the support because of one person.

Redpuma119

Jumping in late... and I'm on mobile (always) so I'm not going to tag.

I am actually envious of people who O early. I feel like I'm waiting and waiting forever to O. The way I see it, a quicker O means more opportunities for a bfp. (Obviously there can be reasons not conducive to ttc so this should be taken with a grain of salt.)

We have a herding dog and we love him. Super smart and tons of energy which means he can get into trouble if WE aren't being good fur-parents. We are active enough that he gets a ton of exercise. We also are a 2 dog family and they tend to burn off a ton of energy together. They can play in the yard for hours. 2 dogs makes for a lot of work and we knew that going in. They live each other and we will always have two. It pisses me off when I see owners who don't give the attention their animal needs.. they're a lot of work.

but my actual FFFC is that I Just. Don't. Give. A. Fuck today. Seriously. I just can't. I went to the gym and that's it. My H is having dinner with clients and asked me to join. Nope. Bath, wine, movie, dog snuggles. 

TravelingCouple

@LoveInDC Thanks for your thoughts girl and I know where you're coming from. I purposely didn't tag anyone because I'm not pointing fingers at anyone. I wanted to share my perspective in general. I completely agree that while we all have our own lives and history IRL, coming on this board with an awareness of being sensitive to others is completely necessary. We're all in different places in our journey and we come here for safety and support, not to have things rubbed in our face that we're so desperately seeking. I think there's a respectful and disrespectful way to talk about our IRL anecdotes without making it seem like hey look what I have! because that's rude and unhelpful. I will put it out there that I would always want someone to tell me if I'm saying something that offends or rubs the wrong way because I'd rather know so I can be more careful next time. I try to only bring up my DS if it's pertinent to the conversation and hope I never come across as snotty about it as that would be the last thing I'd want.

And, speaking of all of us, I'm trying to put my IF timeline in my signature in a spoiler box for God's sake and it's not working. I followed the directions on the "How to GIF" thread but it's only putting some of it in a spoiler box, not all. Any suggestions?

LoveInDC

@TravelingCouple FWIW, you have never rubbed me the wrong way. There was a newbie recently who like 3 days in a row included her LO in her R/R ala "Ugh, LO is running around like crazy and it's exhausting having to chase after them!" "LO finally calmed down today so I can catch my breath." Etc. If your LO is sick, or has a major life event, or is a part of a larger story, sure, include them. But R/R should not be your "what it's like to be a mom" update. Personal opinion.

For the spoiler, it's easier if you edit it using HTML. Super easy! I promise.

1. Click the </> icon to see the HTML.
2. Put <div class="Spoiler"> (no spaces) before the text you want in the spoiler.
3. Put </div> after the last of your text (<br> means line break).

TravelingCouple

@LoveInDC It worked! Thanks

BertieMeetsGertie

@TravelingCouple @wabash15 big, big hugs ladies. It really breaks my heart knowing that sooooo many of us are struggling at the same time. I just told a good friend at work that we've been trying for a while and she was super supportive. People should really talk about their struggles IRL more, but the topic is still so taboo. Anyway, just sending my love to you! 

KristoKekerooni

@Redpuma119 - conversely, that also means more opportunities to fail. As in, I have been TTC 29 months, but I have failed to get pregnant 32 times. Trust me, the roller coaster isn't better just because there are more peaks and valleys. 

This is why it's really important to really consider all angles before you envy someone. It's really not fun to not even get over AF before, oops, there I go ovulating again. It's fucking exhausting. I don't like having two chances to get on a BMB and then failing both freaking times. It sucks. It's not all rosy like you make it sound. 

eggplantface

The concern expressed on TB previously, about going to an RE before the 6- or 12-month mark, is that you're taking an appointment time away from someone who really needs it who waited until they hit that mark. It was especially frowned upon if you have no reason to think something is wrong, like no history of endo or any indication of PCOS, e.g.. That is, impatience =/= infertility. While I agree to the latter, I don't agree that you shouldn't advocate for your health and seek help if you suspect something is truly wrong. Another consideration is that RE practices are different depending on where you live. In DC they are abundant. They advertise on the radio! I waited all of two weeks for my initial consult, so if you live in DC you can worry less about taking away someone else's time. On the other hand in some remote places there is just one RE for a hundred square miles, so the demand is higher. @LadyMillil had to wait, what, 6 months for an appointment, I think? So it's really about using common sense and having consideration for others at the same time to decide when you should seek treatment.

Redpuma119

@KristoKekerooni  Your comment is exactly the reason I said it's not always conducive for ttc and to take it with a grain of salt.  This was MY fffc and not meant to say that Oing earlier was better or worse.

Our journeys are different yet both painful, so if you're offended, that was not my intent and I'm sorry.

tamalahoops

My FFFC is that I spent the better half of the last 2 hours typing out 8 different responses to the discussion of your infertility VS my infertility and decided that none of it mattered and bought myself a print that I've had my eye on for a while. 


My second FFFC is that I have a very expensive herding breed dog. In fact in my life I've had 3 old english sheepdogs and I will never own a different breed. Ever.

KristoKekerooni

@Redpuma119 - I'm not offended, I just mean you really don't know till you are in it. Just like I can only imagine how difficult it is to O late or have terribly long cycles. I can imagine, but I don't understand. Just like you can wish and pray to be in my shoes all day long to get "more chances" but you wouldn't anticipate the pain it is to fail double the amount of times as everyone else. For me, it's not more chances to get pregnant. It's more chances to fail. And that sucks. 

And I don't even really O that early. CD 16 isn't early. I just have short LPs (and 16 is my new regular. I used to O on CD12, and have short LPs, so it used to be even harder). 

I guess just be careful what you wish for. It gets old and painful fast.

NYTino24

@KristoKekerooni I know what I said was flame worthy according to some. If I dish it out, I have to take it too. We are all afraid of something and none of us can get KU if we miss O. I pull hard for everyone, but especially those who have added struggles.
@TravelingCouple I'm sorry you were treated that way. Were you able to find a secondary infertility group? Anecdote: I can't talk to my twin, who had SIF, about TTC and TTCAL because she had a partial hysterectomy 18 months after she conceived her second via IUI. She is angry I still "have hope and reproductive organs". She did get KU first time all 4 times, but had two CP. Meanwhile, I get upset since she already has two kids and we're just about 34, so I may not have a lot of time left depending on the issues I'm dealing with. I wouldn't point to the fact that she already has two kids if she didn't react negatively to me TTC #1 since they aren't related, but she doesn't understand what it's like to struggle before having a first.

KristoKekerooni

@NYTino24 I can agree with that. And as long as you can take me totally disagreeing with the O thing, then cool. And don't judge my early, predictable Os as easy and I won't be envious of other's stuff either.

Redpuma119

@KristoKekerooni  Maybe you shouldn't look at it as "failing." But rather an opportunity to figure out what's going wrong? My H are just now exploring other options because of our trouble ttc. Each cycle feels long to ME and in MY mind, Oing earlier would shorten the cycles and give ME more chances. Not to fail. But to get pregnant- or learn. I am not envious of the struggles that other women encounter. I'm aware that there are many sides to this journey and that I can't fully understand them because I'm not living them.  

for example, you said you've had 32 cycles in 29 months. Let's go with a 30 day month. If you ovulate on day 16 that puts your literal phase at 11 days. Less if we consider 31 month days. That is great for you to know moving forward.

Ive learned so much on this board from all of the amazing ladies here. One big thing is Science. SCIENCE SCIENCE SCIENCE!!  So again- with MY fffc, Oing sooner but maintaining my same LP would give me more chances of a bfp. More O=more chances. I fucking love science.

KristoKekerooni

@Redpuma119 - We already know exactly what is wrong. We've done all the tests. Eventually, we will go to IVF but best case scenario it's $19,000 out of pocket (with not so great chances of it working), so that's definitely on the back burner for a while so H can finish school and I can get my masters. We are anti-loan, so we pay for school OOP and can't also pay for IVF. 

So it's really just sex, wait, repeat for us

tamalahoops

@Redpuma119 I'm actually going to jump in and say no. Once you have an IF diagnosis there is no more wonderful boundless opportunities to get pregnant. It just does not work like that with infertility. For example if someone MFI as her reason for not getting pregnant, she can ovulate all day erry day and not get pregnant. And that must be maddening for her. 

(edited to make it a little less personal)

Redpuma119

@KristoKekerooni I am very sorry that you are dealing with IF.   I feel horrible for you and your H. I hope you can read deeper into my post and understand what I was saying about learning your cycles and what your body is telling you. (Not YOU but you get it.) your original post about failing makes more sense now with the additional content to go with it. 

@tamalahoops  see above. I had no knowledge of IF.

My fffc is for me. And for me, I wish I O'd sooner. 

Sorry to anyone else was rubbed the wrong way. 

KristoKekerooni

@tamalahoops THANK YOU. You articulated what I couldn't. It's not a hunky dory fun game. To do the opposite and make it personal. I ovulate. I ovulate early and perfectly and it's beautiful. I am freaking textbook. BUT. My H has a low count, low motility, low morphology, and on top of that, his sperm has DNA damage which means every time I get pregnant, I have a miscarriage. It sucks. Every cycle isn't one more chance to have a squishy little baby. Every cycle to me is either A. Here's another shot in the damn dark or B. Here's another chance to get pregnant and lose it. 

Sounds pretty shitty, but it's true. 

[Deleted User]

eggplantface said:

The concern expressed on TB previously, about going to an RE before the 6- or 12-month mark, is that you're taking an appointment time away from someone who really needs it who waited until they hit that mark. It was especially frowned upon if you have no reason to think something is wrong, like no history of endo or any indication of PCOS, e.g.. That is, impatience =/= infertility. While I agree to the latter, I don't agree that you shouldn't advocate for your health and seek help if you suspect something is truly wrong. Another consideration is that RE practices are different depending on where you live. In DC they are abundant. They advertise on the radio! I waited all of two weeks for my initial consult, so if you live in DC you can worry less about taking away someone else's time. On the other hand in some remote places there is just one RE for a hundred square miles, so the demand is higher. @LadyMillil had to wait, what, 6 months for an appointment, I think? So it's really about using common sense and having consideration for others at the same time to decide when you should seek treatment.

Another consideration is that a lot of the basic preliminary tests you can do with your PCP/Midwife/OB.  OBVIOUSLY they can't diagnose a lot of stuff and certainly can't treat it but if you're early on in TTC and suspect something then you can do that just to check it out.  I went to my midwife office because even though I live in a heavily populated area with loads of RE offices I didn't want to be a total AW without knowing something concrete.  After the midwives did an ultrasound that showed 15+ cysts in each ovary then I got my ass to the RE.  

geojaminee

Thank you everyone for being so honest and sharing your pain and struggles. 

Real talk and FFC: I feel like I never learned proper social skills from my parents; my dad is socially awkward and my mom has no filter and regularly says the bitchiest things. I learned at an embarrassing age that acting like either of my parents is unacceptable. I'm still learning what's socially ok and what's insensitive. I have a lot of foot-in-mouth moments, IRL and online. So sorry to anyone that's been offended by one of my FIM moments. I always mean well, I promise.

KristoKekerooni

Also, that's what I am saying @Redpuma119 . You didn't say "Oh I wish I od sooner" you said "I'm envious of other people that I sooner" and it might sound like a silly distinction, but there is a difference. It came off very "this is how I see it, and you can see it different, but this is how it is and change your frame of mind" as opposed to, this is just kinda something that would be nice in my current situation. 

tamalahoops

*FFFC is never guaranteed to be flame free.

Redpuma119

@KristoKekerooni I did say I was envious but with the caviet at the end.  At no point was I trying to change anyone's mind about anything related to Ttc. I didn't mean for it to come off that way. 

@tamalahoops I agree. I'm not going to back down because I am challenged on a thought. That's another awesome thing about this community-that women aren't afraid to call someone out. But I'm also not here to hurt feelings and make people upset so it was important to me to clarify.

You guys are ruthless

Redpuma119

There's supposed to be a winky emjoi! I hate mobile 

KristoKekerooni

@Redpuma119 - I'm just saying why compare at all? I have no problem with you saying you want to O early, but why do you have to involve being envious of others? because, exactly. You didn't realize all that about me and my history. So you may have been "envious" of me at a time without realizing you realllllly don't wanna be. 
I just don't understand why you can't wish something for yourself without comparing or being envious of others. 

KristoKekerooni

Also, @Redpuma119 - I'm not like, meaning to come off as bitchy or anything, I'm not mad or anything. Just slightly... irritated? not even that. I just don't get it. But I mean, we're good. 

cdnrunning

I'm going to come back and tag when I get home from work but I just wanted to pop in and say how freaking awesome all you ladies are. I just love how even in a FFFC thread, everyone can pull together and set aside their differences to support one another. I seriously have warm fuzzies all over. I wish you all lived in Dallas so we could head out to happy hour together and celebrate TGIF!

izza2

My FFFC is that I was going to participate in some of the topic discussions that have been brought up, but I'm not in the mood to be a target for no reason again. *shrug*
But I will say that I love some of the discussions that have gone on, and the exploration of both sides of the "coin", so to speak.


And that I've been pushing away a portion of my family because they are "accidentally on purpose" getting pregnant, and I want to punch them in their faces.

TravelingCouple

@NYTino24 Nah I couldn't find a secondary IF group anywhere, not even in the city near I live, which would be a drive. I'm guessing it's because it's not talked about a lot, probably for the reasons in my original post. I'd be up to starting one but opted to look into one on one therapy instead.

Also, I understand not being able to relate to siblings. Both of my sisters got KU the very first time they tried, 6 times between the two of them. They are kind to what we're going through but they'll never actually get it. My one sister I can talk to about it more so than the other. 

KristoKekerooni

@izza2 - Not really sure which topic you were alluding to, but I don't think I have attacked anyone, if it's the one I've been involved in. And if @Redpuma119 or @NYTino24 feel that way I'd be happy to hash that out with them, though I was under the impression we were good and opinions are opinions and blah blah blah. All is good in the hood. But it saddens me that anyone would want to sit out for fear of being unfairly attacked. 

As far as your other one, OMG. YES. Stop pretending it was on accident. We all know it wasn't. UGHH

Tennis11785

Just catching up on the convo after work.  I love seeing a conversation where people are able to respectfully share their perspectives with others.  It helps all of us learn.  

@antono, @eggplantface - Interested to hear you guys felt that a second dog was so much more work.  I've got two as well, and I didn't find the transition to be that bad.  Mine was similar sized dogs and the second dog was much calmer than the first, so that might have helped with the transition.  If I'm already sweeping up dog fur every day, it didn't seem like any more work to sweep up more dog fur every day.  But the benefit for us was they play with and entertain each other - we've been able to decrease the amount of time the dogs go to doggy daycare.  

But I hear you on twice the expenses - boarding and daycare really add up when it's twice as expensive!!

doula-mama

@KristoKekerooni I think what @izza2 was talking about was from the TTGP Grad Check-in Thread

NYTino24

@KristoKekerooni I definitely understand your  feeling of having failed twice in one month, but I haven't been there. I have a lot of respect for you and the other ladies on the board. We are good as far as I'm concerned.

*TW* I, on the other hand, have more time to obsess about when my wildly unpredictable O will come. Hell, I don't even know if I'm actually ovulating *TW* (other than my MC cycle) */TW* since my OPKs are pretty much always close to positive and my temps are so erratic. I am that person getting testing done way before a year, but we also know I have a clotting disorder and will be close to, if not definitely AMA. We started TTC seven months ago, but have only been able to get four TTC cycles in during five months due to MC. I also have been collecting data for over a year. */TW* IMHO, I agree that having a hard line of 12 months under 35, 6 over 35, or waiting for 3 losses is not the smartest idea for *some* women. I had to wait two months for an MFM appointment, but won't see an RE unless we see a reason with this BW / genetic testing. FWIW and as far as I know, most of them require a referral from an OB even if insurance doesn't. People can judge others based on the time they wait, but IDGAF as long as they have good reason.

KristoKekerooni

Ohhhhhhh. Gotcha @Sailing_Mama thanks for ge clarification. 

@NYTino24 good point on the obsessing. Hat would be difficult in longer cycles. I'm lucky in that my misery tends to be short lived at least. 

cdnrunning

@antoto I'm not going to lie. Wiping off my bbt never occurred to me. I guess the only saving grace is that I bought a new 4 months ago....omg so I haven't cleaned it in four months. That sounds awful
@Avrilmai I definitely support "rescuing" a designer dog but I definitely do not support getting one from a breeder. That person is in for one reason and one reason only
@Sailing_Mama Yep - in the same boat here. I wouldn't mind as much if I O'd around the same time each month but it fluctuates anywhere from CD19-CD27, at least for the cycles I've tracked over the last few years
@haylsbayls I don't want you to throat punch me I have plenty of friends with some type of doodle and I love them all the same. It's really the backyard breeders and puppy mills that deserve the throat punch
@hartmich I'm also not a huge fan of WTO. Last month I spent nearly 4 weeks in WTO and then just 6 days in TWW. Fuuuuuuuuuuudge!! I really hate that, such a let down - I know exactly how you feel. Like come on body, you can't ovulate just a little bit earlier????

jenotontx

This is me everytime drama is mentioned that I don't know about...


Whoaaa @izza2 what was up with that chick? Someone has their panties in a serious bunch. 

pebbledam

I can't possible tag everyone, but I just wanted to say that I'm so impressed with this TTGP community. I love how you can all carry on serious conversations about very sensitive subjects while respecting differing perspectives and opinions. I know I haven't been here long, but I have learned so much about the science of TTC as well as the emotional aspects. Thank you for letting me lurk (and occasionally post).