Trying again after chemical?

bells52000

Hello! Seems like we have a little group of people with recent cps. My quick story is that my first Ivf ended in a freeze all because my estrogen was too high.  We decided to PGS test since we had to freeze anyway. Fet a 5ab normal frostie on sept 1 and ended with a beta of only 5.9.  Devastated. Stopped all meds on the 13th when beta was confirmed zero.  And AF started last night.  

I would love to know who else is out there on this same boat right now.  Wondering if your REs are doing anything differently this cycle than last. I meet with my RE on the 26th. I will call the nurse today to tell her about my period, they will prob start me on bcp soon.  Searching for ideas if what we can do different because everything was "perfect" and it ended in a bfn.  And searching for others who are as puzzled as I am to go thru the next steps.

rmarble23

I'm with ya@bells52000 and I'm waiting for AF that should be here tomorrow if not today... why do they have you on bcp? I go straight to estrace 3x daily the crinone 2x

bells52000

@rmarble23 Glad to not be alone in this one!  It seemed like everywhere i looked it was low betas...It just stinks.  My place likes to start with the bcp.  They want to control the whole thing and leave nothing to chance.  I don't love it, but I do like the place.  They have a little formula of a certain days on bcp, then estrace.  TMI - AF came for me and yikes.  The lining. Uggh.

I got a call back from the nurse and I start BCP on Monday.  Meet with the RE on the 26th to get new protocol.

APM_SLP

@bell5200 you probably already know I'm in the same boat, but just had my first FET post fresh transfer that ended in CP.  Because we didn't do PGS with the fresh transfer, my RE didn't change anything for me this go round.  If this FET doesn't take I will definitely be looking for some answers.  It's tough whenever you feel Ike you complely set yourself up for success and then it doesn't work.  I don't completely understand why CPs or BFN happen with PGS tested embryos.  

I have a friend who has been through multiple rounds of IVF (all FETs, no fresh transfers and all PGS tested).  She has had 4 CP's and 2 miscarriages.  BUT, she has 2 perfect little babies!!!  She went through so much but just kept going and going and it worked!!  She gives me hope on my bad days.  

I'm didn't take BCP either, like the PP.  Estrace 2mg 3 x a day, PIO 1 x a day, plus 2 progesterone suppositories daily. 

thatgirl9911

I haven't gotten to the stage of IVF yet, but am very sorry to hear of your troubles. Wishing you lots of luck! xoxo

rmarble23

ugh @bells52000 this is the first one for you...yeah its bad but gets better after a day or so for me at least, the kind where you just want to sit on the couch and not move

bells52000

@rmarble23. Yep...sofa surfing right now! Hoping tomorrow is better.  
@APM_SLP.  The PGS thing is so frustrating because all the research of chemicals always points to chromosomes and when you have the PGS you are left with a big fat question mark! I still have fingers crossed for the next Fet. That story def gives me a little extra hope!  Have you restarted yet?

thanks@thatgirl9911

APM_SLP

@bells52000 my thoughts exactly! I have! I'm in my 2ww.  Beta on Thursday but I'm testing before.  

joneser1281

I feel your pain ladies.  I had never even heard of CP until I had one after our second month of trying on our own 4 years ago.  We did our first IVF this summer and it too ended in CP.  I am a mental case about it because any time I've received good news (positive HPT and/or positive beta), it's ended in CP... So good news pretty much means nothing to me at this point.  It sucks!  I am in the waiting game for AF from the CP still... I feel like she should be due any day now, but she still shows no signs of coming.  I'm like 40 days past the CP bleeding... I don't know what's taking so long!  Once she comes, I'll start 3 weeks of BCPs for my first FET.  I'm trying to be hopeful, but I'm also feeling so blah.  I just don't know what else to do to make this work... I feel like it never will.

2006M&M

I had a CP recently too after our first IUI cycle. So diappointing. We decided to take this month off due to challenging schedules and then try another IUI in October. 

bells52000

@joneser1281. I hear you! I am researching acupuncture tonight...seems like it's done with fresh transfers more.  But I might give it a try on a Fet.  Can't hurt? I hope!

sorry for your cp @2006M&M. Best of luck on your next round.

@APM_SLP. I completely didn't translate you were on your 2ww.  You are going to be the success story I need! Fingers crossed for you!  I know for sure I will not test.  I don't think I could handle getting excited to find out it's another cp.

rmarble23

CP does kinda damage the exciting times we should be having.  Thankfully I didn't POAS prior so I wouldn't get my hopes up. I can only imagine if I had seen the two lines then to be crushed even further by limbo after my first beta. hopefully we can all move through these feelings of fear and doubt so we can have happy healthy rainbow babies. 

bells52000

Tonight I am itching my butt off.  I have had a rash creep up on me each night for the last two or three nights.  Crazy itchy red blotches.  Google says delayed reaction to pios? Guess another call to office tomorrow! Feels like I have fleas the size of elephants.

FatPony

@bells52000 - have you tried an antihistamine spray like Benadryl on it? It was a lifesaver for me when I was doing allergy injections that made the injection site red and insanely itchy. It's a topical spray. Hope that helps, even though there's nothing I can do for the cp's. I just had one in July and it was devastating, to say the least. Now if only there was a spray that helped with that!

bells52000

Truth right there @FatPony. I am going to have to get the spray.  The itch is interesting.  It happens to me the same time we did the shots and has alternated sides each night just like my shots.i am going to give a call over. Maybe they will swap my oil this go-round.  Did your place change anything between July and your September FET?

FatPony

@bells52000 - no, we did the exact same thing. Our embryos weren't PGD, but we had some really good looking ones, so they picked the best one. Plus, I have already had a successful pregnancy on the same protocol. The cp round, they chose two 'kinda good' embies. They weren't far enough advanced as the embryologist would've liked, so they went with 2 instead of 1. I attribute the cp to their poorer quality, but in reality it's impossible to pinpoint what went wrong. 

joneser1281

@bells52000 You'll have to let me know what you find out about acupuncture.  I've never done it, but a friend of mine used to do it.  It kinda freaks me out... I'm assuming it's probably not going to be covered by insurance either right?  Because nothing is for me when it comes to this stuff.

The biggest disappointments about my CP after IVF were the good betas.  The first was 117.3.  The second was 238.1.  I was sent for a third because I had started bleeding 2 days after the second beta.  The third was 927.4!  It sounds like you ladies who have also suffered through CP had low numbers.  When I had the CP trying on our own years ago, I had a positive HPT and then started bleeding 5 days later.  The day after the bleeding started, my levels were at a 6.  So having these high betas after IVF and still having a CP was a total mindf@#$!  DH was telling me to relax that everything was fine... The nurses and RE at my clinic kept trying to reassure me that the bleeding I was having could be normal, but I knew better.  When I went for a fourth beta, I was down to 123.  I can't even trust numbers to let me think everything will be ok!  I feel like spotting for me is always a bad sign.  I hear so much about how it's normal during pregnancy, especially after IVF, but any time I've had spotting, it's always turned to bleeding and CP.

@FatPony I am encouraged to hear that you didn't have your embryos tested.  We have 7 frozen and didn't do testing either.  I feel in the minority on the boards because I feel like most people do testing.  I'm hoping what you said is true about your CP round... That the embryos were just "kinda good."  For my CP round, the best was transferred but it was only a 2AB.  They said it looked good, but I was hoping it would've been further along.  We have a few 4AAs frozen, so I'm hoping this FET will work with one of those.  I hope you get good news this time... and I hope it's the end of CPs for all of us. 

rmarble23

@joneser1281 I did acupuncture for like 6 months, it was a community acupuncture which is cheaper but wasn't covered by insurance since it was a sliding scale.  I had found a groupon for a great deal and decided i was going to want to do it for IVF to improve my chances.  Well my groupon was going to expire so i started about 2-3 months prior to any medication.  he worked on my stress, at the time it was crazy between work, home, IF i was off the walls.  It really helped my stress, i got to a point that i dont know i had ever been at in terms of calm and zen.  i started at 3 times a week then went to two and down to one once i had started meds.  while on meds it kept me in check emotionally as well.  i really enjoyed it but felt he didn't know much about IF/IVF so he was pretty much working on me as if i was pregnant.  i had to stop about a month ago due to finances.  i dont think im going to go back for this round as i feel it didn't help much specifically with my lining or implantation, pretty much just the stress of the whole situation.  i am still in a pretty good place emotionally/stress wise so until i get back to a point of not being able to handle things im going to hold off. 

joneser1281

@rmarble23 Yeah, I probably won't do it.  Just like you said, my friend also had a similar experience.  She liked it and thought it helped her to de-stress... But it didn't really help with her conception.  I can't justify the expense of it right now... I'm still trying to justify the expense of the FET and meds haha.  I'm glad you're still relatively stress free.

bells52000

the first thing my DH said was that acu is prob not covered by insurance.  I am going to check it out.  Guess you never know unless you ask.  

@joneser1281 you are totally right that a high beta is worse.  When my re called and said congratulations, you are pregnant with a beta of 5.9...I started balling and said congrats for what? You know that has a super low chance of being viable! I think that shocked him and he put the nurse on! Lol. When the nurse called for my second beta and said she was so sorry it was negative. I said I am just glad we get to move forward and you aren't saying it is 5.2.  So yeah, at least when it is low, it resolves quickly and messes with your head a little less. So sorry you had to deal with that. 

APM_SLP

@bells5200 I am in complete shock that your RE said that!

bells52000

@APM_SLP I really liked him before that call.  Then the poor nurse got more than she deserved from me.

Calling in a few minutes to figure out what they will say about this freaking rash from the PIO shots.  My butt cheeks are on fire!  LOL

joneser1281

@bells52000 I have been meaning to get back to this convo all week and kept forgetting... I cannot believe your RE congratulated you?!  You would think that being a RE he would understand what we go through and how emotional it makes you.  I'm so sorry you had to deal with that!  Thank you for your kind words... You're right, I almost wish nothing had worked at all for us because I would've been able to get back into the saddle quicker and try again.  The ball is now finally rolling... Yet slowly haha.  AF arrived on Sunday and I started BCPs and baby aspirin.  I have to be on BCPs until 10/6, then baseline US and BW on 10/9 before starting Estrace.  I am opting to try the PIO this time and that has me nervous... Especially after hearing about your butt cheek rash!  Haha.  What did you make out about that?  Also, it will be lovely that I'm slated to take my first injection when we have a wedding to attend.  I guess DH and I will be headed out to the car for that haha.  If anyone asks where we're going, maybe I'll just say, "Oh we're going to the car so I can take it in the butt." 

bells52000

Ah! That is so funny!  The shots really weren't bad.  I was upset to go off them.  At least I knew they worked compared to the crinone.

I really think the re is a wimp. When I meet with him on Monday and will mention the whole congrats thing.  Honestly, if I wasn't on these boards I wouldn't have known cps exist and that 5.9 was bad.  I would have been celebrating only to go two days later and get a negative. 

I spoke with the nurse about the rash and she said she gets tons of calls about rashes showing up a week later.  Ok, so it is normal I guess. She said to put cortisone on it and more or less suck it up.  I am back on the bcp, but something is telling me I should wait a full cycle.  I hate meds, I am sick of taking them.  I am going to talk with the re and see what he thinks our options are before I do anything dumb.

APM_SLP

@bells52000 I wish I could have been your success story but it's a BfN.  They want to do a uterine lining biopsy before continuing to make sure my lining contains the needed things to accept an embryo for implantation.  Maybe something to ask about? Wish I had better news. 

bells52000

@APM_SLP I wish your news was a BFP for you!  And personally I wish I was everyone's success story!  LOL  Goodness! This is tough stuff. 

Is that called an endometrial biopsy?  I have read a little about it. Is it the same thing people call the "Scratch"?  I hope the dr set aside plenty of time for me! Because I have a ton of questions.

APM_SLP

Yes @bells5200.  From what I can tell it's the same procedure but done for different reasons.  A scratch is to increase blood flow (or something like that??) to the uterus which helps with implantation for the next transfer.  The biopsy is when it's actually sent out to see if the tissue contains the beta 3 integrin protein.  I THINK! Lol.  Still trying to sort it all out.  

APM_SLP

@bells5200 let me know what your RE has to say!

bells52000

I am adding it to the list of questions for sure.  I have two more frosts left.  I would love for one of them to stick!

joneser1281

@bells52000 You'll have to let us know what you make out at the doctor tomorrow.  Give your RE shit for sure about that congrats comment!  I know, I didn't know about CPs either until I had my first one.

@APM_SLP I am bummed to hear your news.  You had PGS testing right?  Man, why can't anything be certain in this process?!  I've never heard of uterine lining biopsy.  I have heard things recently about the "scratch," but I think only through the boards.

I picked up my Estradiol prescription the other day and my PIO is supposed to be delivered in a few days.  Not that I need either of these for another 2 weeks.  Still taking the BCPs and baby aspirin.  My clinic is asking if we want to transfer one or two embryos.  I've been strictly saying one... But now I'm starting to weaken a little.  Maybe we should do two?  I'm just so tired of waiting, being let down, waiting, trying again.  I'm starting to get confused on what to do.  I think we're going to have a phone conference with the doctor to help talk through some of this.

bells52000

In case you were wondering, I hate the bcp. I am rage full on this thing. How can a tiny little pill make me want to throw things. I truly hate it.  My patience is completely gone on it.  Question 1 tomorrow will be ...do I have to keep taking this damn pill?

@joneser1281 we did PGS and my office says only one.  I think I am going to see if they will transfer the one PGS normal and the one that they didn't get an answer on next time.  At my age it is prob abnormal since 3 of 6 were normal already.  But for some reason two makes me think one will stick. I would even consider doing my two PGS normals that are left.  I am not getting any younger and my brain is telling me we might need to do another fresh,so I May as we'll get there already. 

LSatturo126

@joneser1281 and @bells52000 that's why I put both healthy embryos because I didn't want to be let down with only putting one in. I wanted a better percentage rate of it sticking. Best of luck to both.