Making a murderer breaking news!

PerraSucia

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/brendan-dasseys-conviction-overturned-making-a-murderer_us_57ae2f42e4b0718404117823

tldr;

"Brendan Dassey’s Conviction Overturned After ‘Making A Murderer’ Tells His Story

He’ll be released within 90 days unless the state wants to retry him"

Free Brendan! 

joyful08

Woohoo! Such great news! I have been filling their stories since the documentary aired. 

PerraSucia

@joyful08 I am not convinced Steven Avery had nothing to do with that woman's death, but there is no way Brendan did. 

joyful08

@PerraSucia I lean more towards the side that Avery did not do it but I'm not 100%. But I am with you in that I completely believe Brendan had nothing to do with it. 

cantalopes24

I don't believe Brendan had anything to do with it. I believe the step dad and maybe the brother did and Avery possibly was involved or helped afterwards. The only people I felt bad for were Brendan and Avery's mother.

birdiejo

Woohoo! Hopefully they do not attempt to retry him.

PerraSucia

homemake said:

Woohoo! Hopefully they do not attempt to retry him.

Right? Wisconsin seems like the worst place for white trashy people. 

ohstars

I was so sad for Brendan during that whole ordeal. Thank god someone had the sense to defend him. 

blush64

I am glad he is getting out but I really think the other guy is guilty. (Either alone or with someone else)

PerraSucia

I don't think there was enough evidence Steven Avery did it and the police were tooooo sloppy setting him up that he may get out too without Brendan's testimony 

lfrank12

I am so happy about this news! Poor kid didn't even understand what was happening when he supposedly "confessed". I really hope that Wisconsin can just let this go and not retry him.

Gingersnap

Am I the only person ever who hasn't watched this?? 

birdiejo

@Gingersnap you gotta check it out.

Gingersnap

Netflix, right? 

birdiejo

Gingersnap said:

Netflix, right? 

Yep!

blush64

If you do watch it don't stop there. The documentary leaves a lot out so to get a fuller picture look at other sources as well. 

peachesnbean

ohstars said:

I was so sad for Brendan during that whole ordeal. Thank god someone had the sense to defend him. 

Yep! My feelings exactly. I think Avery did it, thought he was invincible after being released and pulled his nephew into the cover up. That boy should have never been jailed. He clearly has issues and the evidence against him was all very sketchy here say.

PerraSucia

I didn't think Avery did it until I spun out on Reddit threads about it. 

@Gingersnap it's pretty good and I'm not a documentary person really. 

MommaBean

I liked Making a Murder but really think they could cut the running time in half. 

Did you all listen to Serial?

srscott3

PerraSucia said:

homemake said:

Woohoo! Hopefully they do not attempt to retry him.

Right? Wisconsin seems like the worst place for white trashy people. 

They can't retry him. Double jeopardy. You can't be tried for the same crime twice

Xstatic3333

srscott3 said:

PerraSucia said:

homemake said:

Woohoo! Hopefully they do not attempt to retry him.

Right? Wisconsin seems like the worst place for white trashy people. 

They can't retry him. Double jeopardy. You can't be tried for the same crime twice

Apparently they have 90 days to refile, probably with new evidence. Since his conviction was thrown out, it's different than if he was found not-guilty. 

This is good news. The way he was treated by the justice system was absolutely despicable. I'm on the fence about Avery. He wasn't treated fairly either, but he may still be guilty. I can talk myself into it either way depending on what article I'm reading. 

birdiejo

@Xstatic3333 I feel the same way about Avery. The one thing I continue to wonder is if he's guilty why doesn't he just give in and stop the fight? He's already in prison for the rest of his life with very little chance of getting out but he appears adamant that he's innocent. How could you feel that way if you knew you did it? I guess you could be crazy or have some sort of psychosis.No wonder the show was so riveting. 

Xstatic3333

homemake said:

@Xstatic3333 I feel the same way about Avery. The one thing I continue to wonder is if he's guilty why doesn't he just give in and stop the fight? He's already in prison for the rest of his life with very little chance of getting out but he appears adamant that he's innocent. How could you feel that way if you knew you did it? I guess you could be crazy or have some sort of psychosis.No wonder the show was so riveting. 

I think he would have to be a true narcissist (could be the wrong term, not a psych professional) who has segmented what he did away from his day to day existence to the point that it doesn't seem real to him. Clearly, he's not bright enough to just be conniving about the whole thing. 

An example that may only be well known in New England is the Aaron Hernandez murders. He murdered 3 or 4 people while not only being a very high level professional football player, but one that came off as a "good guy" and a "team player" on a team that is very strict about player decorum. I think he truly just walled his crimes and double life away in a different part of his mind and forgot about them. 

ohstars

Spoilers if you didn't watch........

Based on the docu alone, I thought Avery was innocent. I thought Brendan's original accounts (or maybe when he was talking to his mom?) made sense. He saw Avery several times. And didn't they find another convicted murderer with the same MO? I think Avery was too easy to frame since he was so high profile after the release. 

laurenmichael725

My unpopular opinion is that both Avery and Dassey are guilty.  I thought the documentary was very interesting, but incredibly one-sided.  They left out LOTS of information to sway opinions.  It was clear that the way the police and prosecution handled the case was unethical and probably illegal, but I think they did all of it to be sure these people would be convicted of a crime they did commit (which is still completely inexcusable).  I still felt bad for Dassey, who no matter how you slice it was manipulated by everyone involved.  But I still think he did it.  I think people also tend to forget that this poor woman was brutally raped, tortured, and murdered by someone.  She was sort of erased from the narrative, which I think is sad.  There is much more information available if you research a little more, and it was eye opening and infuriating to learn about everything the documentary omitted.  

MommaBean

@laurenmichael725 correct me if I'm misremembering but there's no evidence that she was raped or tortured, just killed. All they found were charred bones and you can't reconstruct much of an accurate narrative from that. The police could've woven (and did) any shocking, emotional story to make sure a jury convicted. 

Speaking of the jury, the police department is bad but I'm also shocked a jury full of people unanimously decided on both of these cases. Really? no reasonable doubt? Not a single person who saw a flaw in the prosecution enough to say that they hadn't met their burden of proof? BS. 

Xstatic3333

MommaBean said:

@laurenmichael725 correct me if I'm misremembering but there's no evidence that she was raped or tortured, just killed. All they found were charred bones and you can't reconstruct much of an accurate narrative from that. The police could've woven (and did) any shocking, emotional story to make sure a jury convicted. 

Speaking of the jury, the police department is bad but I'm also shocked a jury full of people unanimously decided on both of these cases. Really? no reasonable doubt? Not a single person who saw a flaw in the prosecution enough to say that they hadn't met their burden of proof? BS. 

You have to remember that the jury didn't see all that we saw watching the documentary, which, whether or not it was correct, I do believe was one-sided. If you just heard Dassey's confessions and inconsistencies without seeing the effed up way they went down, I can see how you make that conclusion. 

For Avery, there is a lot if damning evidence. Question #1 is whether you buy the argument that much of it was planted. Question #2 is whether you think some evidence was planted but he may be guilty anyway (where I sit right now). I can see how they returned a guilty verdict. At least he had the benefit of a very good defense team. 

mjsommer

I am SO happy about this! Wd watchd it on the news last night. Even if he is guilty he was still underage and alone in police custody. Those people should be ashamed of themselves. America has laws for a fair trail and that boy was taken for a ride he didnt understand one bit. I hope all who broke laws trying to convict him get a dose of humility...they arent gods and they have to abide by laws even if he did do it. 
Also @PerraSucia ouchh on the white trash comment. Thats super hurtful to some people ans really just uncalled for. My family might be considered "white trash" by your standards. You shouldnt judge anyone especially by the color of their skin. 
Exit bc it taghed mommabean instead of perrasuccia.

NiceyMeany

Sorry I'm a little late to this discussion, but I feel like regardless of whether Avery and/or Dassey committed the murder, the trial was such a clusterfuck that they should never have been convicted in the first place.  With the outrageous interrogation tactics, the egregious conflict of interest, obvious evidence tampering, etc., there was a total miscarriage of justice in both cases.  It's just as important, if not more important to me that the justice system follows protocol as it is for us to catch bad guys.  If the only way we can catch a bad guy is by violating protocol, then we're stooping to their level, and we're exacting revenge in place of justice.

I believe that the rules are important.  The rules are what keep us civilized.  And the Avery and Dassey cases were clearly not handled according to the rules.  Add that to their obviously limited intellectual capabilities, and it's clear as day to me that they were both taken advantage of.

srscott3

@xstatic3333 what I meant was he can't be tried again in federal court. Double jeopardy is per jurisdiction. Aka you can't be tried twice (for the same crime) in federal court or state court, respectively. His conviction was overturned in federal court, so federal prosecutors cannot charge him again. He can be charged by the state of Wisconsin though. But (in my opinion) that would be in pretty bad faith. Hopefully the state won't press charges after a federal judge already overturned the conviction. 

laurenmichael725

@MommaBean I think you are right about there not being evidence about the rape and torture part.  I am probably remembering the narrative from the prosecution.  Regardless, she was obviously brutally murdered, dismembered, burned, and discarded, which is horrific enough.  Here is a link for anyone interested, which outlines some of the missing pieces from the documentary.  https://www.pajiba.com/netflix_movies_and_tv/is-steven-avery-guilty-evidence-making-a-murderer-didnt-present.php   Sorry if this isn't clicky.  

lfrank12

Also if you guys haven't heard yet, they are currently working on the second season right now! It will obviously follow Brendan's story line and then Avery with his new attorney and what their plans are to try and appeal. 

birdiejo

@NiceyMeany Agree 100% but could never word it as eloquently as you did. 

Xstatic3333

Thanks @srscott3! I didn't fully realize that distinction. 

PerraSucia

@mjsommer I mean Avery ran after some woman shaking his dick at her down the road, white trashy is a pretty great defining word for that. 

Aussie45

Like many of you guys, I truly don't believe this boy could have done it or been a part of it, if nothing else from the videos of what was said to Dassey by the cops. The whole interrogation was repulsive and I couldn't believe he ever got convicted in the first place. They literally sat there convincing him if he talked he wouldn't get in trouble and put the damn words in his mouth of what they needed to hear for a "confession". The whole show was so one-sided that I couldn't figure out how I felt about everything else, but I felt there was a serious miscarry of justice as far Brendan was concerned.

mjsommer

@PerraSucia I honeslty cannot believe that you are defending using a racial slur. Spe ifically is it okay bc its geared towards a white person? If it had been a racial slur geared towards another ethnicity would that be considered wrong even if gou felt it was true? Im appalled at your stayement going over well with these women. Usually everyone is very progressive abou leaving racism in the past. 

PerraSucia

@mjsommer are you assuming I'm not a white person? 

NiceyMeany

@mjsommer while I do agree with the sentiment, "white trash" is much more an economic slur than a racial slur.  As a term that represents the social majority, calling someone "white" could never be considered a pejorative.  It's the "trash" part that makes it offensive.  

I don't condone the use of the term, but I think it's important to make the distinction between a racial slur and an economic pejorative.  You cannot be racist against the social majority because enacting racism requires the social power of the relative social majority.

Gingersnap

You always say what I'm thinking, just more eloquently and tactfully than I ever would, @NiceyMeany

mjsommer

No im not. you can be racist against your own people. Sterptyping groups of people based on the color of skin is exactly that. White trash specifies white people. Trash specifies trash. Together they form a derogatory term against white low income people. Its not right anyway you spin ot to use that term or any racial term against anyone no matter their income OR skin color. You can be discriminated against having any skin color religion ethnitcity income etc if racism wasnt the right word you are still a discriminator against those people.