Let's talk pumping and BF?

kaytastic25

I searched and didn't find what I was looking for...please direct me if it had been addressed! 

A little back story...with DS1 I exclusively BF for 2 months (no pumping) until I realized my milk dried up and DS lost a ton of weight. Who knows how long my milk was dwindling, I'm not sure. I think the problem was a combination of 1. Letting him nurse himself to sleep without draining breast. 2. I have implants which contribute to engorgement. 3. I wasn't eating enough or drinking enough.

With all these problems NOW known I can hopefully fix my issues and have successful long term BF. But, I am nervous I won't make enough milk and baby will be starving like DS! I'd like to start off pumping ASAP. Feeding from bottle and BF. I've searched lots of sites that have very helpful information. I DO also have access to a lactation consultant (but they weren't helpful with DS). I think pumping the unused breast during or after feeding is ideal. Any other suggestions? Maybe also pump half hour after feeding to build up supply? Letting daddy feed by bottle once a day and pumping during this time? I'm pretty nervous I won't be making enough milk. TIA! 

katesmama0706

I think you have a solid plan, I pumped for about 10 minutes after every feeding with DD to boost my supply, but like you I wasn't drinking or eating enough (I was just too distracted with a newborn) and my supply all but dried up by 4 months and we were supplementing with formula until I weaned her at 6 months to get my period back. Your pump won't be as effective at emptying your breasts as your baby though so if you aren't getting a ton of milk from your pump don't panic too much

LastMango

Your plan is pretty solid but I'll add that you shouldn't underestimate the benefits of a good LC. I know you mentioned that the experience you had with one last time wasn't beneficial so I'd recommend looking for a new one. They can do things like weighted feedings that would red flag something like your milk drying up without your knowledge. 

Good luck! It isn't easy!

Wholesome

Wirh eating and drink enough, your supply may be fine this time around.  I'd like to caution you about pumping after your baby feeds, it may cause an imbalance of fore milk/hind milk.  If you baby gets too much fore milk and not enough hind milk, he/she will be gassy, cranky and uncomfortable.  I had this problem because I was switching boobs before he reached hind milk and he was just getting fore milk on the second boob too (I ended up just feeding from one side at a time until he was big enough to empty both boobs before full).

  But I'm not a lactation consultant and don't understand problems you may encounter because of your boob job.

I found KellyMom and LeLecheLeague to be great online resources too.

lindsladle15

Good ideas here!  I would add that with DD2 I added in another "feeding," which was just a pumping session.  For example, my body learned that I was feeding DD 11 times a day, but really she was nursing 10 times and the 11th was just pumping.  If you stick to a schedule of how and when you're going to do whatever you decide, your body will catch on quickly.

nolemama24

@kaytastic25 I also have breast implants! I wonder how that will work for me with BF'ing (first time mom). I had an awesome surgeon and no complications with my implants, so I am hoping everything is ok? I do plan to do a mixture of pumping and BF'ing as well, especially since I have to go back to work so soon & I will pump while at work. I plan on going to a class/meeting with a consultant and kinda hoping baby latches on and we rock & roll with it. I don't know if that is naive or not but not really sure what else to think!

ElleMF728

My LC is also our pediatric NP, she recommended Fenugreek to me and I did notice an increase in my supply when using it.  There are also some recipes for lactation cookies, I didn't notice a huge change but I was already taking the max amount of herbal supplements so maybe that is why.  

I also had some success with power pumping twice a day which is 15 minutes on, 10 minutes off, 10 minutes on, 10 minutes off, 5 minutes on.  I tended to do it during nap time and just after bedtime.  

ThePax89

My daughter always nursed to sleep and I never had any issues. Did you ever do a weighted feed with him to see how much he was transferring from the breast? Pumping isn't an indication of how much breastmilk you produce. It is an indication of how much you can pump. My hardcore recommendation is to find an ibclc who you LOVE and possibly a breastfeeding group. 

cjs260

I don't have any advice, but following for information. Thanks for asking! 

@Wholesome How do you know that your breast is empty? 

Emma61210

I would love opinions/advice about exclusive pumping. FTM so I know nothing. The reason it sounds appealing to me is because you can track exactly how much they are getting and have a stash available for those times when you need to be away from baby. Also getting them used to bottle feeding in case we end up having to formula feed.

has anyone exclusively pumped? Pros? Cons? 

katesmama0706

@cjs260 I'm sure everyone's boobs are different but for me pumping I knew they were empty because no more milk would let down even when I was moving the pump and changing the speed and nursing I knew because my baby would start to fuss because she wasn't getting any more milk and needed to switch sides. I could also kinda mash them around and feel that they were empty (and soft and saggy as opposed to harder and fuller when milk was still in there)

lindsladle15

If anyone is into essential oils, fennel and basil help with increasing supply (peppermint will decrease).  I also had success with these purple gel beaded boob wraps that could be hot or cold by Lansinoh and they were miraculous!  I'd warm them up and apply on whatever boob I was pumping.  They were great cold when I was so engorged at the beginning.

Wholesome

I was doing timed feedings on the first side per some
recommendation.  I now know time is irrelevant.  My son was getting full without getting hind milk that way.

Wholesome

oh, when he was older (and not constantly falling asleep while eating), he would get off the first boob himself to let me know the faucet turned off.

cjs260

@katesmama0706 @Wholesome Very interesting, thanks!! 

azwildcat62

Following as well! As a FTM I know nothing & this is all fascinating. I'm going to take a breast feeding class in 3rd tri. Anything else I should do to prepare?

aishmc

Following as well! I have taught patients how to BF and now that it's my turn I'm stressing.

How much should I be eating or drinking to maintain supply? Are there guidelines?

ThePax89

@cjs260 your breasts are never empty. Even if you have just pumped until the milk is no longer flowing easily, you can nurse immediately after. The baby will likely be frustrated because there won't be a forceful letdown, but because the breast is never empty, your baby may nurse longer, but can still get the same quantity. 

ThePax89

@aishmc unless you are malnourished or dehydrated, your breastmilk quantity will not suffer. You, however, probably won't feel great. Breastmilk is mostly water. A baby consumes 25-30 ounces per day. That is about 500 calories (to compensate for if you are trying to maintain weight) and 3ish cups of water extra to stay hydrated. 

ThePax89

@kelseyh62 find an amazing ibclc, look for a local breastfeeding group to attend with your baby and do weekly weight checks and ask questions, and find a local Facebook breastfeeding group. 

colleenkevin

I think you're putting together a solid plan.  I found that adding a pumping session in between feeds in the morning worked best for me.  It increased my morning supply but left the rest of the day totally controlled by my daughter's appetite.  Pumping regularly after feeds increased my supply all-day and left me way too engorged if I wanted to skip pumping.  I also hated pumping so once a day was mentally enough for me.

I wouldn't worry about foremilk/hindmilk imbalance as long as you're not timing feeds and instead doing what @Wholesome said and letting the baby drop off when he/she is finished with the breast.  The amount of fat in your breastmilk gradually increases over the course of the feed until the milk is so high in fat and thick that it's difficult to remove.  Let baby eat till he/she is done and you'll be fine...Sometimes it'll be a whole fatty meal sometimes it'll be just a quick sugary snack.  I always offered the 2nd breast and regardless of whether my daughter took the offer or not I started with that 2nd breast on the next feed since it hadn't been adequately emptied compared to the first.

It's at the point where the milk is thicker and harder to remove that people say the breast is "empty" but current understanding of milk production tells us that the breast is never truly empty.  My LC once told me they estimate that 30% of total potential milk volume is always available in the breast even when the baby or the pump give up.  As your baby is nursing or you are pumping, your body is simultaneously making more milk to replace what's being drunk.  Almost like slowing pouring more water into a cup while someone drinks from the cup with a straw (my LC loved analogies )

Edited: grammar

ThePax89

@Emma61210 are you going back to work? I always thought that I would need to know the exact # of ounces my baby was getting. The truth is, the baby is the best guage of how full they are and how much they need. I fed from the breast 20 months. Pumping actually became more confusing because I worried that my daughter would take too much milk or not get enough. 

katesmama0706

I was just rereading your original post and correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds like you were planning on feeding on one side then pumping the other? If your baby is getting full on one breast that sounds like a great idea to me, especially if your goal is to be able to build a stock pile of milk, your body is essentially getting tricked into thinking your tandem feeding twins. I'd play around with it, I think myself that I would have had more success feeding and pumping at the same time since baby was more successful at triggering a letdown than my pump ever was, even with the Madela PIS let down assist. 

Wholesome

Yeah, all those people and websites that told me to do timed feeding on boob #1 and then switch to boob #2 can suck my pinky toe - it made everything harder than it needed to be.

I think a lot of ladies try to go into instant diet mode once they give birth to shed the pregnancy weight; a girl in my last pregnancy group couldn't understand why she was losing her milk supply, then she told us she only ate 1/2 a Cup O' Noodles each day until dinner and didn't really drink anything all day either...  Improving diet and exercise is great just a long as you're get a healthy amount of calories and water intake, otherwise breastmilk supply is hindered.

for many, the act of breastfeeding makes you lose weight.  For some, it can have the opposite effect.  Exercise is always awesome.

colleenkevin

Dieting post-delivery is for the birds.  I ate so much when I came home from the hospital.  One meal that I still think about sometimes my husband made me repeatedly for breakfast - it was sweet potato and white potato home fries mixed with barbecue pulled pork and topped with 2 fried eggs.  Dieting was the last thing I was ready to do while sleep deprived and nursing around the clock.

ThePax89

Amen to the dieting bullshit. I was hardcore trying to keep the calories in my body as my daughter sucked them all out. I would have my mom bring me the creamiest soups she could find and make ice cream mandatory. It is nearly impossible to eat when you have a new baby, so calorie dense foods were very important to me. 

Wholesome

I was lactose intolerant before pregnant, apparently giving birth cured that.  I was totally a milkshake-aholic for a bit there (until we figured out the milk was making my son spit up excessively).

ETA
My husband thought it was hilarious.  He took a picture of me drinking a milkshake and captioned it on Facebook with, "Reward for burning so many calories today".  It was a hideous picture of me but I'm strangely proud of it.  Haha.

AshleySparkle720

I kept a mini fridge next to my bed so I could
 A. Pump in the middle of the night and keep the milk cold until moving it to the freezer in the morning. And B. Keep whatever snacks that I wanted to have for extra energy in and on it. I went through SO much propel/water/gatorade/powerade!

Heeb918

Drinking tons of water helped with my supply. I always felt so thirsty. I was also more successful with pumping in the am rather than later in the day. DD would get up around 4-5 to nurse then go back to bed until 7-8 (after a few weeks of course) and I would pump the other breast that she didn't eat from after the 4:00 feed. It was very difficult to pump and nurse at the same time. That was normally the time I woke up from the longest sleep session so I would produce an oz or 2 more so it seemed more productive to me. I froze that one and began to build a supply that way.

ThePax89

@Wholesome my sister had severe anaphylactic reactions to over 10 foods prior to pregnancy. When she got pregnant, her allergies chilled significantly, to the point where if someone accidentally cooked her food in butter (dairy allergy), she was 100% fine. 

kaytastic25

nolemama24 said:

@kaytastic25 I also have breast implants! I wonder how that will work for me with BF'ing (first time mom). I had an awesome surgeon and no complications with my implants, so I am hoping everything is ok? I do plan to do a mixture of pumping and BF'ing as well, especially since I have to go back to work so soon & I will pump while at work. I plan on going to a class/meeting with a consultant and kinda hoping baby latches on and we rock & roll with it. I don't know if that is naive or not but not really sure what else to think!

I think as long as you're under the muscle it's fine (and have nipple sensation). Be sure to let your LC know or doctor you have implants. I was extremely engorged because of the implants. It was hard to tell when my breast was full or empty. I also had an easier time BF one one side vs the other....not sure if it's because of the implants or not. 

kaytastic25

ThePax89 said:

My daughter always nursed to sleep and I never had any issues. Did you ever do a weighted feed with him to see how much he was transferring from the breast? Pumping isn't an indication of how much breastmilk you produce. It is an indication of how much you can pump. My hardcore recommendation is to find an ibclc who you LOVE and possibly a breastfeeding group. 

I will try that, thanks!

kaytastic25

katesmama0706 said:

I was just rereading your original post and correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds like you were planning on feeding on one side then pumping the other? If your baby is getting full on one breast that sounds like a great idea to me, especially if your goal is to be able to build a stock pile of milk, your body is essentially getting tricked into thinking your tandem feeding twins. I'd play around with it, I think myself that I would have had more success feeding and pumping at the same time since baby was more successful at triggering a letdown than my pump ever was, even with the Madela PIS let down assist. 

Yes that's my plan until baby wants both breasts. I never got to that point with my son. Then maybe feed him that bottle of milk next feeding and pump after he drinks his bottle? I know pumping isn't as effective as BF so I don't want to do it too much that's why I'm trying to figure out the best course of action for boosting and maintaining supply without hurting it! Lol I don't know why I'm having such a hard time making a plan! Maybe I'll go with the flow a little and see baby's eating habits...

kaytastic25

Wholesome said:

Yeah, all those people and websites that told me to do timed feeding on boob #1 and then switch to boob #2 can suck my pinky toe - it made everything harder than it needed to be.

I think a lot of ladies try to go into instant diet mode once they give birth to shed the pregnancy weight; a girl in my last pregnancy group couldn't understand why she was losing her milk supply, then she told us she only ate 1/2 a Cup O' Noodles each day until dinner and didn't really drink anything all day either...  Improving diet and exercise is great just a long as you're get a healthy amount of calories and water intake, otherwise breastmilk supply is hindered.

for many, the act of breastfeeding makes you lose weight.  For some, it can have the opposite effect.  Exercise is always awesome.

Yep, that was me. I was not eating more than a toddler portion at a time (not very nutritious either). I was also dealing with other things like recovery from c-section and doped up on meds. Then had to have a root canal when baby was 1 month and they put me on prednisone and pain med's again because I got an infection or something went wrong with it. I was constantly in pain for his first one almost 2 months of life. I forgot about all that but I think that had a lot to do with it. 

kaytastic25

kaytastic25 said:

Wholesome said:

Yeah, all those people and websites that told me to do timed feeding on boob #1 and then switch to boob #2 can suck my pinky toe - it made everything harder than it needed to be.

I think a lot of ladies try to go into instant diet mode once they give birth to shed the pregnancy weight; a girl in my last pregnancy group couldn't understand why she was losing her milk supply, then she told us she only ate 1/2 a Cup O' Noodles each day until dinner and didn't really drink anything all day either...  Improving diet and exercise is great just a long as you're get a healthy amount of calories and water intake, otherwise breastmilk supply is hindered.

for many, the act of breastfeeding makes you lose weight.  For some, it can have the opposite effect.  Exercise is always awesome.

Yep, that was me. I was not eating more than a toddler portion at a time (not very nutritious either). I was also dealing with other things like recovery from c-section and doped up on meds. Then had to have a root canal when baby was 1 month and they put me on prednisone and pain med's again because I got an infection or something went wrong with it. I was constantly in pain for his first one almost 2 months of life. I forgot about all that but I think that had a lot to do with it. 

**first 2 months of Baby's life***

Kristalyn85

Not exactly the same issue, but with DD I planned on exclusively BF until I went back to work. Little did we know she was tongue-tied and wasn't pulling the milk like a normal baby would (at her lowest, she was in the bottom .11% for weight, and I am positive if she had a different dr, they would have said failure to thrive). I saw a LC and pediatrician, also a IBCLC, (twice weekly for weight checks and support), who recommended a lot of helpful tips. Just FYI, this info is 2 years old, and I am not sure if recommendations would be different today!

First, they recommended feeding off both sides to signal my body to make more milk.

They also recommended to start pumping immediately after figuring out there was a problem. I pumped after every feeding session for 15 minutes on both sides. I continued to BF her, and then fed her 1 additional oz from a bottle.

I started taking fenugreek multiple times a day and put more lactogenic foods in my diet (like oatmeal, hummus, nuts). Not sure if it was a combination of the new foods or supplements, but something helped. Also, started drinking 3 more cups of water a day just to be sure it wasn't my body failing her (which I constantly felt like it was doing  ).

One thing that stuck with me was both of them saying that a pump is about 30% less efficient than a baby at removing breastmilk, which is why they always recommended for me to start with breastfeeding then move to the pump. 

Hope some of this info helps!

ThePax89

@Kristalyn85 what a rough journey. I'm not sure I would have been able to so persistent! How long were you able to breastfeed? 

achancyginger

I dried up when my son was about 6 mos old.  I wasn't pumping, eating, or drinking enough due to my work environment.  All of my coworkers are male (IT) and I pushed myself to keep up with them.  I supplemented with formula because I knew that I wasn't producing as much as I had originally.  He did not lose weight and I was able to wean him gradually.  I was glad that I was able to nurse him as long as I did, and I do not feel guilty. 

kaytastic25

Kristalyn85 said:

Not exactly the same issue, but with DD I planned on exclusively BF until I went back to work. Little did we know she was tongue-tied and wasn't pulling the milk like a normal baby would (at her lowest, she was in the bottom .11% for weight, and I am positive if she had a different dr, they would have said failure to thrive). I saw a LC and pediatrician, also a IBCLC, (twice weekly for weight checks and support), who recommended a lot of helpful tips. Just FYI, this info is 2 years old, and I am not sure if recommendations would be different today!

First, they recommended feeding off both sides to signal my body to make more milk.

They also recommended to start pumping immediately after figuring out there was a problem. I pumped after every feeding session for 15 minutes on both sides. I continued to BF her, and then fed her 1 additional oz from a bottle.

I started taking fenugreek multiple times a day and put more lactogenic foods in my diet (like oatmeal, hummus, nuts). Not sure if it was a combination of the new foods or supplements, but something helped. Also, started drinking 3 more cups of water a day just to be sure it wasn't my body failing her (which I constantly felt like it was doing  ).

One thing that stuck with me was both of them saying that a pump is about 30% less efficient than a baby at removing breastmilk, which is why they always recommended for me to start with breastfeeding then move to the pump. 

Hope some of this info helps!

Thank you! Sounds like a rough time! @Kristalyn85

Kristalyn85

@ThePax89 I breastfed for 19 months! The pediatrician clipped her tongue around 6 weeks old, and that made everything sooo much easier. I only had to give her the extra ounce for about 2-3 months after we figured it out. Still makes me tear up thinking about how she was literally starving. This little one will be checked in the hospital, since DD enherited the tongue tie from her dad (his family never knew since he was bottle fed, and it apparently didn't have an impact on him).

ETA: there were many nights of tears for all and I definitely felt like quitting many many times.

hjmorgan-2

I love reading all these BF stories! I'm glad you started this post. I had no idea your eating and drinking contributed to your milk supplye.
FTM here lol