It is offensive to call a CP a miscarriage?

bai-by2019

I know a CP is an early miscarriage but when I think about the impact of a loss at 19 weeks versus 5 weeks, I wonder if it's offensive to call a CP a miscarriage. I know the pain is real either way but I just had a CP and wonder if I'm being disrespectful by calling it a miscarriage. 

BrightenMySky

Hi @Bai-by2016, I'm the one who suggested on the IF board that you check this place out, so of course I'm going to say welcome and I'm sorry you're here.  

Losses affect people differently depending on their experiences and their circumstances, and you are entitled to mourn your loss however works for you.  And no one wins in the suffering olympics.  Someone else's grief does not diminish yours.  But generally, to answer your question, I think you will find that there are plenty of ladies here and on TTCAL (another board you could check out when/if it might be helpful) that consider their CPs to be miscarriages/losses (me included).  

mjolk

Welcome but also sorry you are here.

I get why you are wondering that. I sort of feel like a fraud here because in my case of a blighted ovum, there was in a strictly technical sense, no baby. And I don't think that compares to the loss of a baby you can see on the screen. I think overall it is a good thing there are separate early term and late term loss boards, but we can all support each other. But nobody wins by diminishing someone else's suffering and a chemical pregnancy counts as a loss/miscarriage in my book, especially for those dealing with infertility or previous losses.

bai-by2019

Thanks so much @BrightenMySky. I hate that it's even called a CP in the first place. I'm almost 36 and been trying for over a year so I was over the moon (and that's putting it mildly) when I saw the BFP on the at-home test, even though the line was faint.  When I saw the faint pink line on the test, I knew I couldn't tell my husband because he wouldn't be able to accept that faint result so I waited for the beta. In the mean time I planned how I was going to tell him. I was freaking out inside keeping the secret. I got my first beta on a Thursday

My first beta was 12 so they told me it was a CP and I was devastated.  and started bleeding in Sunday but my beta kept going up. I thought maybe I was pregnant with multiples and lost 1 of them. I had massive clotting and bleeding. But I still held out hope. They continued to beta and it kept going up. So did my hopes for a viable preg. At the u/s my RE confirmed other wasn't viable. I then stopped taking the progesterone and now my hCG numbers are going down. 

Sugargirl1019

I am so sorry for your loss. For many of us, even though there wasn't anything identifiable as a baby on the screen, we lost hopes and dreams and happiness and expectations and overwhelming joy and relief at finally seeing that line. You have that at 4 weeks and 12 weeks and 20 weeks. 

Reading that you never got to really share with your DH just broke my heart! Hugs to you.

RiverSong15

I'm sorry for your loss. Everyone's grief is defined by their own attachment to the pregnancy and their own experiences. Just because you'd be inconsolable with a late term loss doesn't diminish your grief over this pregnancy. No one wins when playing the Pain Olympics. If you feel this is a MC, you have a right to grieve it as such. Likewise, if you feel it is NOT as big of a blow emotionally, that's OK too. Grief and MC is so intensely personal, that there is no right or wrong way to feel, and no one should be telling anyone else what they should or shouldn't feel.

fiorip

I'm very sorry for your loss. As someone who has experienced a very early loss and 2 second trimester losses (at 22 and 17 weeks) I can tell you it hurts just the same. It is still your kid, it can be a group of cells still and you already love it.

After my second loss I went to individual and group therapy sessions and I always remember a young girl who had experienced a misscariage, she was about 6 weeks when she found out. She didn't even know she was pregnant in the first place, she went to the ER with heavy bleeding and pain and she was told she was having a miscarriage and that they couldn't do anything. She said she just started crying and couldn't stop and she couldn't understand why was she so hurt if she wasn't even looking, she didn't plan to get pregnant, hell she didn't even had a boyfriend but just knowing that her child was inside her, she loved it already. Her story brought everyone to tears because we could all relate with that feeling of unconditional love. You have every right to grieve, a child is a child, doesn't matter how tiny. Hugs. 

bai-by2019

Very, very, very well-said ladies. Thank you!!! I'm so sorry for your losses as well. Hugs to you.

Cmckenzie

 I am sorry for your loss! I can tell you that my grief did not change according to the how long the pregnancy lasted. To me that was my baby and now its gone.

bai-by2019

@Cmckenzie I feel the same way. I'm sorry for your loss.

moonlady-2

Ok maybe I'm the outlier here. But to be honest I feel like it's different when you have pictures of your baby on the fridge. Not trying to minimize your pain, just being honest. And I'm sorry because I know it's not the popular opinion.

moonlady-2

God I really apologize for being negative. I have been thinking about what I said and regret it.  Sounded pretty heartless. I'm sorry.

BrightenMySky

@moonlady I appreciate your apology.  This forum is about supporting each other through and after our losses.  We all have different experiences here.  And even those of us who might seem to have gone through loss at a similar stage, our journeys are likely still very different, and, in any case, there is no right or wrong way to grieve any pregnancy loss.  

chloe97

It's not disrespectful to call a chemical pregnancy a miscarriage, just like it's not disrespectful to refer to your year of trying to get pregnant your battle with infertility despite the fact that there are likely women on the IF board that have been trying to get pregnant for 5+ years.

I do have to say that as women who have suffered losses, we will have a lot easier time relating to the struggles as women who have suffered similar losses to us. I had later first trimester losses with both my pregnancies and needed D&Cs. It's hard for me to relate to a loss that was at 4 weeks and it's very hard for me to relate to a loss at 24 weeks. Are any of them lesser? No. But physically and emotionally, a loss at 24 weeks when you've felt the baby move and have announced your pregnancy is a lot different experience than a BFP and a bad beta. I personally feel bad complaining about recovering from my D&C when another mother is talking about cremating her baby, so I can understand that after reading these stories on the MC board that a woman could feel imposter complex when they are posting on this board with a chemical pregnancy. And I really hope they don't, because as @BrightenMySky said a loss is a loss and this board is an incredibly great and supportive resource for women who have had losses at any point in their pregnancies.

So in defense of @moonlady, I get what I think you were trying to say. I just think you weren't really super sensitive about the way you said it. 

This board isn't super active, but maybe it would make people feel more comfortable if we had a chemical pregnancy check-in, a 2nd tri loss check-in, etc?

bai-by2019

I respect everyone's opinions.  I was asking for honest feedback.  I guarantee you that a lot of people read my post and scoffed at it and just didn’t comment because they didn’t want to be offensive.  And I completely understand all points of view, I really do.  There is always someone out there that "has it worse" than us.   EACH of us has real pain.  

I went on to type and type and type and decided to delete it because I think my words above are enough, but I will say this:

I've learned (in the last few weeks) that I don't need anyone's validation to tell me that my "CP" was a loss of a pregnancy and can be "called" a miscarriage.  What happened hurt me and continues to hurt me and it's my situation and my pain to deal with.  No one understands it like I do...NO ONE.  It's been 24 days and I'm still bleeding.  Every time I go to the bathroom, I see blood.  My hCG still isn't back to normal.  That is real.  I was a mom for a brief moment and had to cross back over that line and that was devastating; that's something no one should ever have to go through no matter how far along in their pregnancy.  Frankly, I'm tired of feeling like I'm in a pissing contest about who has experienced more pain.  I know my pain isn't as bad as a woman who lost her baby after hearing the heartbeat or feeling her baby move, or a woman who delivered her stillborn baby, or a mother who lost her 5 year old daughter in a car accident, or a 16 year old in a hunting accident, or a 45 year old in a drunk driving accident.  But there will always be that thought process here for some.  And that's a shame.  I suddenly feel stupid and silly for ever being here in the first place.

fiorip

@Bai-by2016 you are absolutely right, you don't need anyone's validation and it's certainly not a contest, pain is pain and most people don't understand that. I was actually told by someone after my 2nd loss that I should be grateful it happened now before my son was born and I wasn't attached to him, that it would be far worse to lose him after he called me "mom" or I took him to school and took care of him. In that moment I was so outraged by that person that I chose not to comment. How did she now which is worse? People speculate when they haven't been through it but you know how heavy your burden is. Take care. 

BrightenMySky

@Bai-by2016 I have been trying to think about what to post in response at this point.  As you said, you don't need anyone's validation, but I totally support you here.  One thing I learned that has stuck with me, particularly through this journey of IF and loss, has been that even though some of us experience similar things--losses at similar times, etc.--we will never truly understand what another person is going through.  We can relate through our own experiences and provide comfort and support that way.  I 100% agree that no one understands it like you do.  One thing I've struggled with in relating to my IRL friends is some of them assume that I feel however it is that they felt about their losses, seeing pregnant people around, and things like that.  I just want to feel my own feelings.  Hugs.  

P.S. We have started a trouble TTCAL check in on the TTCAL board if you want to join over there if at any point you think it would be useful to you. 

ETA @fiorip what a terrible comment. I am sorry for your losses and that you received that sort of "advice."

bai-by2019

@fiorip – I can’t believe someone said that to you!  It’s unbelievable how insensitive some people can be.  That is what’s so hard about taking a chance and sharing our experiences.  We are looking for some comfort and sometimes we end up feeling worse and wishing we just kept things to ourselves. That’s why this board in particular has been so helpful for me.  And that’s why I kind of freaked out yesterday.  If I can’t come here for support and comfort, where can I go?  This board is all I have because I don’t know anyone personally that’s been through any type of miscarriage.  All the moms in my life literally got pregnant the first time they tried.  I feel like I don’t belong here now.  Even though I said I don’t feel like I need anyone to tell me it’s ok to call my CP a MC, I feel like other people (with 6+ week miscarriages) may feel like I don’t belong here, and the last thing I want to do is upset someone else suffering through something worse than my CP.

 

@BrightenMySky – You have been supportive of me from Day 1.  I guess I have some leftover baggage from my first visit to  The Bump (about a year ago) when I first found out I had PCOS.  I was so depressed, feeling like an infertile failure of a woman, and in desperate need of answers.  I was really off-put by all of the acronyms and signature lines with people’s “credentials” and I didn’t receive a warm welcome.  So I decided The Bump wasn’t for me and I sought information and support elsewhere.  It wasn’t until I had my CP that I came back to The Bump.  I found my way to the IF board and you were one of the first people to show me support and make me feel welcome.  I completely agree about what you said about people’s projections.  That’s why I find it so hard to talk about…the IF and the CP.  I feel like most of the women here understand that their situation is unique even if it appears to be similar to someone else’s situation, and we just offer hugs and prayers and condolences.  Thanks for the TTCAL suggestion.  I’m still benched for now until my hCG goes back to normal.  But I hope to see you there soon.  Again, thank you for your priceless support.  I’m sorry for my rant yesterday.  I kind of hit rock bottom.

BrightenMySky

I hear you on the "credentials."  I put it in my sig when I first started here on TB based on what seemed like the culture on the IF board.  And now I wouldn't mind shrinking it, but I am not ready to take out the details of my losses right now.  As for posting here, people who cannot provide you any support will just not respond to you, that's fine.  I find I often have trouble relating to posters who talk a lot about their living children, and depending on how I am doing, I sometimes will not get overly involved in their discussions.  But I would never want them to not post here or to feel that they needed to censor themselves.  Sorry you're in such a low place right now.  I am not doing great either, have therapy this afternoon and hopefully that will help.  

RiverSong15

@moonlady, I appreciate your apology, but how you phrased your post was really insensitive. I actually wish I had ultrasound photos to post on my fridge. I've been hurt so much by friends and family who don't view my early losses at 7 wks or so as "real". I had good friends ask me how far along I was when I first told them about the MCs, and in that moment I realized it didn't effing matter and it was a stupid question. I was devastated by the losses, and how far along I was shouldn't dictate how much emotional support I get from my friends - my feelings should matter more. Instead of getting their support, I felt that I had to defend how upset I was, and I ended up wishing I had never told them about it. We haven't told anyone else about the MCs since that conversation.

I wish I had a memento or something to prove my children existed. I don't though, and comments like this just serve to invalidate other people's pain and make them feel more alone. Just because I'd be unconsolable if I lost a baby to SIDS or had a stillbirth at 30 wks does NOT make my pain over my current MCs any less. Each woman and each pregnancy is different. Just because you wouldn't feel that upset over a CP doesn't mean that OP shouldn't be. Your pregnancy, your feelings - no one else gets an opinion.

As soon as we all start playing the Pain Olympics, this place becomes less supportive and everyone loses.

ETA: I dont mean for this post to be harsh in any way. Tone is hard to get across on the Internet. I'm just trying to explain my thoughts on why it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks about a CP, except for the person going through it.

bai-by2019

@BrightenMySky I understand the sig.  I think it’s helpful (now that I know what it all means) to see that information.  It lets the reader know what you’ve experienced without you having to restate it all the time.  I can quickly see how long you’ve been TTC and that you’ve done a butt-load of IUIs and sadly lost your baby at 11weeks.  I definitely see the usefulness of it.  When I didn’t know better, I just felt like the lack of information for my sig line meant I didn’t belong.  It’s a learning process, you know?  J

 @RiverSong15 Very well-said.  A lot of people just don’t get it and say the wrong thing, even when they mean well.  I don’t think anyone ever means to be hurtful but their comments don’t hurt any less just because a hurtful intention wasn’t behind them.  I am at the point where I basically refuse to talk to anyone except my best friend about it.  I started a thread here called “Please don’t say that” and some of the things people posted that were said to them made me gasp.  That’s why I’m glad I have the support here.  I would be lost without it.

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mjolk

I put my "credential" in a spoiler so hopefully it is less bothersome. I find them useful for referencing what a poster has gone through.

HowlCircus

I haven't been on here in a little while but I felt the need to return as my "due date" is coming closer I seem to be needing more support than just weekly counseling.

When I read this whole feed I really felt for you @Bai-by2016. I felt sort of lost on here and a lot of things you seemed to express about being a part of this community. I too had a CP and struggled about where I stand. I will say there are a lot of amazing supportive women on here who gave me comfort! Those women are true gems As for all the ultrasound picture talk my personal feelings about it are I'm sad that I don't have one even an empty one because I feel like I can't physically hold anything that makes it more "real". I am a very very sentimental person and the fact that I have no "proof" of my loss is hard for me. I do have a onesie I bought to tell my SO and I do cherish that. I see a counselor and she recently told me I have ptsd regarding the situation. We all 100% handle things differently. We all are in pain and we all need comfort and to lift one another up because my view is your loss is my loss because I try to put myself in people's shoes and understand their pain ad where they are coming from. I want you to know I needed that sense of validation too because I felt silly for being such a train wreck after seeing what other women had been through but I have now accepted I'm 100% allowed to feel all of my feelings around it. It's okay to need this place and support and I hope everyone can come from a gentle place and be more kind. We are all suffering in our own ways. If you ever feel like you need to be able to talk freely and feel like you aren't being judged. Please private message me! We all need a hand up when where are feeling down.

bai-by2019

@HowlCircus Very well-said! I'm really sorry about your baby. I am SUPER sentimental too so I can totally understand that. Thank you for your kind words and support. When was your baby due?

bai-by2019

@mjolk I thought I replied to you but I don't see it here. I'm sorry.

I totally agree with their usefulness. I was new to everything at the time and didn't really understand the intent, but now I understand and find them very useful myself.

HowlCircus

My due date would have been September 22nd. Did you ever look up or get yours? @Bai-by2016

bai-by2019

@HowlCircus
Yes.  It would have been 2/16/17.  You doing ok?

HowlCircus

Awh a Pieces well if you're into that sort of thing. Thanks for asking I'm doing okay. Still feels like a looming countdown to sadness. Trying to focus on summer and enjoying the little things. How are you doing this week so far? @Bai-by2016

bai-by2019

@HowlCircus I'm glad to hear you're trying to enjoy the summer and the little things. It's hard. I've been doing much better mentally since I finally got a "normal" beta on Tuesday (3 days ago). I finally feel like this 5-week ordeal is over and I can move on. Grief still hits me out of nowhere sometimes. It surprises me. To keep my mind on positive things I made a list of every thing I can think of that I want to do around my house and I've been picking some and knocking them out . It's been really nice. I can't imagine what it will be like when my due date comes. It'll be hard for sure. I'm here for you. Hang in there, love! ::hugs::

HowlCircus

Glad that you're feeling a bit better @Bai-by2016 also tht's great that you're getting things done around the house. I let that stuff slip after a couple weeks of staying positive so my best advice to you is keep remaining positive. Try to find and read happy stories if that helps. The triggers are something I relly struggled with but remaining positive and using affirmations are the best. Like sometimes I had to repeat positive things to myself until I believed them. Keep you're chin up and I'm here for support because it's a long road. Thanks I'm hanging in there stayed busy Fri and Saturday so that was helpful. Hope you're having a good Monday. I'll be thinking of you.

bai-by2019

@HowlCircus You are so sweet! Thank you so much! That's great advice!

keikidreams

I'm very sorry for your loss. A loss is a loss, regardless. How we view it and deal with it cannot be generalized. It's very personal. I've had three losses (a D&C @ 13 weeks, a CP at 4 weeks, and a MMC at 9 weeks) and I have to say that physically the CP hurt the most. The bleeding and pain with the CP was one of the worst things I've ever experienced. I'm not sure why, but my body had a very difficult time with that loss. It was the least emotionally draining as I felt more in control over the other two losses which had to be resolved with the help of doctors and pills.

Whatever you do, don't let anyone dictate your emotional pain for you. Yes, I feel like I was "lucky" not to have lost my first son at 20 weeks, or my CP baby at birth, or that my last loss wasn't a live child who had suffered, but that doesn't take away the fact that each loss was a painful loss of a much wanted baby. It cut me very deeply. I'm sure the same goes for you.

As for making others understand - that will be hard. Some people simply don't get it. Or they simply don't feel the same way. I had found it easiest to honor my lost kids in my own way and not seek anything (be it approval, acceptance, acknowledgement, etc.) from others. It hurts less that way, but it also somehow feels more special.

Your heart will always be scarred, but I hope that your body and mind will be able to heal soon.

bai-by2019

@keikidreams
That was incredibly well-said!  Thank you so much!  I'm really sorry for all of your losses.  I wish you weren't able to have the perspective that you do from the experiences you've had.  I can't imagine dealing with more than 1 loss.  I don't know how women like you get through it.  I guess you don't have much of a choice.

I'm healing pretty well now and we're finally about to TTC again so I think that helps.  Thanks for taking the time to comment.  

HowlCircus

keikidreams said:

Your heart will always be scarred, but I hope that your body and mind will be able to heal soon.

I loved that part so much @keikidreams it's so perfectly put!