superfetation

NYTino24

So there is a common thought that you cannot ovulate while pregnant, but my twin and I were supposedly conceived through superfetation. My mother was 22 when she got pregnant with us and was 23 when she had us. Since she was so irregular, spotted throughout, experienced late weight gain, and was young / uneducated about her body, she didn't know she was pregnant until about 5-6 months. Doctors did the ultrasound and told her we were measuring at about 3 weeks apart. We were born about a month early from the estimated due date (on the same day) and were under 5 lbs. but only 3 ounces apart. I have done Google searches and it is possible, but very rare. I'm pretty sure no genetic testing was done. We are the only set of twins in my close family, but my great aunt on my father's side also had fraternal twins. Maybe they were just wrong. I know tons of doctors have measured babies incorrectly in the womb and it didn't match up when they were delivered.... Just curious - has anyone experienced something similar?

tamz86

NYTino24 said:

So there is a common thought that you cannot ovulate while pregnant, but my twin and I were supposedly conceived through superfetation. My mother was 22 when she got pregnant with us and was 23 when she had us. Since she was so irregular, spotted throughout, experienced late weight gain, and was young / uneducated about her body, she didn't know she was pregnant until about 5-6 months. Doctors did the ultrasound and told her we were measuring at about 3 weeks apart. We were born about a month early from the estimated due date (on the same day) and were under 5 lbs. but only 3 ounces apart. I have done Google searches and it is possible, but very rare. I'm pretty sure no genetic testing was done. We are the only set of twins in my close family, but my great aunt on my father's side also had fraternal twins. Maybe they were just wrong. I know tons of doctors have measured babies incorrectly in the womb and it didn't match up when they were delivered.... Just curious - has anyone experienced something similar?

Qfp??

redheeler

Not sure the qfp was necessary :-/
it is an odd question though. It is possible for a set of twins to have 2 different fathers, so that obviously means it's possible for 2 eggs to be fertilised at different times, I feel that 3 weeks is a big difference though. A couple days I would believe but it wouldn't be noticeable on u/s in the grand scheme...

redheeler

Also to add, it is possible for 1 twin to be delayed in development and catch up by delivery.

BecauseBabyIamAPug

Well, since I am assuming you are at least 18 years old, U/s technology has advanced significantly in the last 2 decades. You will hear a lot of stories of late U/S measuring a baby as XYZ and baby only weights ABC. 
While hyperovulation  is common (hence faternal twins), it usually happens with in 24 hours of each other due to the hormones.

Also, there could have been an issue with the placenta and growth restriction for one twin, which is not unheard of. 

J1D

I've never heard of superfetation before. I know what I'll now be googling all morning. Humans are fascinating creatures.

sarah0985

PartiallyDomesticated said:

Not sure the qfp was necessary :-/
it is an odd question though. It is possible for a set of twins to have 2 different fathers, so that obviously means it's possible for 2 eggs to be fertilised at different times, I feel that 3 weeks is a big difference though. A couple days I would believe but it wouldn't be noticeable on u/s in the grand scheme...

What's wrong with the QFP? I'm thinking you think it's different then "quoted for posterity" in case she dd. 
I use to assume it means "quit effing posting" but it actually doesn't. I believe it was used as the original intent here. No mean spirit

NamelessAria

This probably isn't the right place for this question. Since this is the trying to get pregnant board, emphasis on trying. Many of us have never been pregnant. And many of those of us who have been pregnant didn't really stay pregnant long enough to have many ultrasounds and such done.

I'm not sure where you'd even ask this. 3rd trimester board? A parenting board? Reddit? But I can tell you that a group of ladies that are largely struggling TTC#1 probably isn't the best place to get a lot of answers based off experience. Just adding that I'm not trying to be rude here. It's just really unlikely anyone here has an experience to add that would be useful to you.

What I can tell you from some quick searching on Google scholar is that superfetation isn't really accepted in the medical community as something that happens in humans.

ETA: I did see one study that suggested superfetation is theoretically possible in women using assisted reproductive technology. I couldn't find a single article saying superfetation happens naturally unless it was discussing mummified remains or something.

delujm0

I believe it's pretty common for twins to measure differently, even though they would theoretically have been conceived from eggs released within 24-36 hours of each other (during the LH surge).  It's unusual for twins to measure exactly the same age during gestation.  3 weeks is a fairly large gap, however, the smallest error in measurement can cause the dating to vary greatly, and at 5-6 months the smaller twin could have just been in a bad position for getting a decent measurement.  It's harder to get accurate measurements when there are two in there, and that would have especially been true decades ago when ultrasound technology was not as advanced as it is today.  I mean in 1985 my mom was told that my sister was "definitely" a boy.  So...if the machines made it difficult in the third tri to tell whether there was a penis or not, I don't have that much confidence in their ability to accurately measure size...I mean even NOW size estimates based on ultrasounds in the late third tri are commonly pretty far from reality.

 

I'd think that the fact that you were similarly sized at birth would make it reasonably unlikely that you were conceived several weeks apart...but at any rate, there is no way to prove it one way or the other at this point with the data you have.  I'd probably just assume that your mom had a normal twin pregnancy and a bad measurement during her first ultrasound.

 

ETA: @NYTino24 I LOVE YOUR NAME.  My sister named her dog after Tino Martinez.  ha. :-)

HopingForOneAgain

sarah0985 said:

PartiallyDomesticated said:

Not sure the qfp was necessary :-/
it is an odd question though. It is possible for a set of twins to have 2 different fathers, so that obviously means it's possible for 2 eggs to be fertilised at different times, I feel that 3 weeks is a big difference though. A couple days I would believe but it wouldn't be noticeable on u/s in the grand scheme...

What's wrong with the QFP? I'm thinking you think it's different then "quoted for posterity" in case she dd. 
I use to assume it means "quit effing posting" but it actually doesn't. I believe it was used as the original intent here. No mean spirit

Oh thank goodness I am not the only one who used to think it meant that!

khbear

It's pretty much the norm for twins to be different sizes, and in premie twins you do often get one twin that is a little more developed/stronger than the other. That doesn't mean the twins were conceived weeks apart from eachother. There's only so much room in a uterus for two babies and two placentas.

LadyMillil

My aunt has IVF twins and they never measured the same gestational age.

I looked this up awhile ago because I was rewartching old Greys anatomy episodes and there is an episode with twins conceived 6 weeks apart by different men. (The character  had 2 uteruses if anyone was wondering). Like others have said, there is really no medical evidence that this occurs in humans. I've also read that ultrasound dating can be off by up to 1 week, so I would expe it's possible for the gestational age of twins to appear to vary by a couple weeks.

AndiPandi127

I have no idea if it is possible but at this point I'm pretty convinced that just when we think we've seen everything, something else happens, so I dunno. 

J1D

AndiPandi127 said:

I have no idea if it is possible but at this point I'm pretty convinced that just when we think we've seen everything, something else happens, so I dunno. 

This! So much this! 

Eta: *****possible trigger warning? I don't know if talking about medical stuff involving congenital and genetic abnormalities requires a TW. ****



I figure if people can have 3 functioning kidneys, hearts on the wrong side of their bodies, fetus en fetu (so?), conjoined twins, tails, 6 nipples, ect ect, I don't see where superfetation would be impossible. Highly, highly unlikely and all kinds of rare, but not impossible. 

YogaSandy

sarah0985 said:

PartiallyDomesticated said:

Not sure the qfp was necessary :-/
it is an odd question though. It is possible for a set of twins to have 2 different fathers, so that obviously means it's possible for 2 eggs to be fertilised at different times, I feel that 3 weeks is a big difference though. A couple days I would believe but it wouldn't be noticeable on u/s in the grand scheme...

What's wrong with the QFP? I'm thinking you think it's different then "quoted for posterity" in case she dd. 
I use to assume it means "quit effing posting" but it actually doesn't. I believe it was used as the original intent here. No mean spirit

That's what I used to think QFP meant too. 

tamz86

Hi everyone, 
i didn't think this was the place to Ask a question like this, plus considering the technology and medical advancement, it's hard to guess what was going on then.
 I apologise for the qfp

Everycol0r

I'm just here to say the post title reminded me of Mary Poppins.



ETA: QFP absolutely means quoted for posterity or quoted for proof. But stranger things have happened, I once got bitched out by announcing myself as a lurker... They thought I was calling them a bad name. 

NYTino24

I was just asking because I think I may be ovulating twice this month and according o TCOYF, it wasn't likely. However, after doing some research and finally getting some OPK and a BBT this week, I'm going to pay close attention and ask my doc over the next two months before we TTC. My twin has a late LF, so maybe I am just ovulating late and I was wrong last week. FF says I am irregular based on my charting so I really have no clue since I went off BC 6 months ago.

MonaLisaRalphio

@NYTino24 What makes you think that you could be ovulating twice this month?

izza2

Everycol0r said:

I'm just here to say the post title reminded me of Mary Poppins.



ETA: QFP absolutely means quoted for posterity or quoted for proof. But stranger things have happened, I once got bitched out by announcing myself as a lurker... They thought I was calling them a bad name. 

I am offended by this word. My feels are hurt.


But, yeah, I don't see where this post couldn't be asked here. No matter where it's posted, unless we're reproductive experts or specialized in the reproductive system, I doubt we have any (eta:) tried and true/scientific answers from our own experiences.

I did a bit of research and on Ebsco there were only 6 documents on superfetation with the key word of humans added -- the majority of the studies and papers on the subject were about other mammals. So, regardless of whether it's truly possible or just a matter of poor technology, it's obviously extremely rare.
In your case - if you were both born on the same day, due three weeks apart, and only weighed ounces different - I wouldn't say you were the result of superfetation. I would say you were the result of older technology and one twin growing faster/bigger than the other. It's fairly common in multiples, and not the result of immaculate conception. If you were born 4 weeks (1 month) early, that's 36 weeks for one twin, and 33 weeks for the other if you were in fact the result of this phenomena. 37 weeks is generally considered "full term" for twins, but 33 weeks is still considered mildly premature. If you were really 3 weeks apart, the 36 week twin would have been significantly heavier than the 33 week twin. At that point, s/he was gaining 1/2 lb per week and the 33 week twin would've been around 4 lbs, with the 36 week twin around 5 1/5. That's more than mere ounces of difference. (ETA:) Obviously weights vary by pregnancy and baby, but... you get the gist. There would've been more of a difference if you were in fact 3 weeks apart. As PP said; there's only so much room in the uterus for multiple fetus' to develop.

Regardless, the research I did get (because I'm not requesting through Illiad, takes too long and I'm impatient) said that while it's possible it's improbable in humans. It doesn't necessarily happen through actual ovulation in the case that your uterine lining is thickening, the egg is released, and sperm have to find the egg in the fallopian tube, but rather in that the egg was starting to open in the ovary to prepare for release, and the sperm were able to locate and fertilize the egg while it was still in the ovary. Then it traveled to and implanted in the uterus.
Again, possible, but not probable. And in your case - I highly doubt that's why you measured 3 weeks different from your twin. You wouldn't have been born at the same level of development and the same weight. Seems more like one fetus got more nutrients than the other and that showed in the ultrasound, and then they caught up further along. Superfetation is a far stretch.

MamaMunn

NYTino24 said:

I was just asking because I think I may be ovulating twice this month and according o TCOYF, it wasn't likely. However, after doing some research and finally getting some OPK and a BBT this week, I'm going to pay close attention and ask my doc over the next two months before we TTC. My twin has a late LF, so maybe I am just ovulating late and I was wrong last week. FF says I am irregular based on my charting so I really have no clue since I went off BC 6 months ago.

So you haven't been using OPKs or temping, what makes you think you're ovulating twice? 

britters314

delujm0 said:

I believe it's pretty common for twins to measure differently, even though they would theoretically have been conceived from eggs released within 24-36 hours of each other (during the LH surge).  It's unusual for twins to measure exactly the same age during gestation.  3 weeks is a fairly large gap, however, the smallest error in measurement can cause the dating to vary greatly, and at 5-6 months the smaller twin could have just been in a bad position for getting a decent measurement.  It's harder to get accurate measurements when there are two in there, and that would have especially been true decades ago when ultrasound technology was not as advanced as it is today.  I mean in 1985 my mom was told that my sister was "definitely" a boy.  So...if the machines made it difficult in the third tri to tell whether there was a penis or not, I don't have that much confidence in their ability to accurately measure size...I mean even NOW size estimates based on ultrasounds in the late third tri are commonly pretty far from reality.

 

I'd think that the fact that you were similarly sized at birth would make it reasonably unlikely that you were conceived several weeks apart...but at any rate, there is no way to prove it one way or the other at this point with the data you have.  I'd probably just assume that your mom had a normal twin pregnancy and a bad measurement during her first ultrasound.

I know a set of female twins whose parents were told they were having one boy. Apparently on the ultrasound one of the twins looked, to the doctor, like a penis on the other twin. This would have been in the late 80s, so yeah ultrasounds back then weren't very reliable lol

delujm0

NYTino24 said:

I was just asking because I think I may be ovulating twice this month and according o TCOYF, it wasn't likely. However, after doing some research and finally getting some OPK and a BBT this week, I'm going to pay close attention and ask my doc over the next two months before we TTC. My twin has a late LF, so maybe I am just ovulating late and I was wrong last week. FF says I am irregular based on my charting so I really have no clue since I went off BC 6 months ago.

If it helps at all, I would frequently get multiple rounds of +OPKS and fertile CM in a cycle.  But I was temping, so I knew I was only actually ovulating once, and it would happen about two weeks before my period started.  I have longer cycles typically.  Occasionally I would even get a batch of fertile CM after I had confirmed ovulation.  That's why this board is so hardcore about temping - it is truly the ONLY way to actually CONFIRM your exact ovulation date. 

izza2

NYTino24 said:

I was just asking because I think I may be ovulating twice this month and according o TCOYF, it wasn't likely. However, after doing some research and finally getting some OPK and a BBT this week, I'm going to pay close attention and ask my doc over the next two months before we TTC. My twin has a late LF, so maybe I am just ovulating late and I was wrong last week. FF says I am irregular based on my charting so I really have no clue since I went off BC 6 months ago.

It took me a really long time to write my PP, so I completely missed this reply.

Why do you think you ovulated twice? If you weren't temping or weren't using OPKs (and even then) or weren't getting regular USs from your doctor, then you have no idea when you ovulated. Period trackers are a guessing game based on previous cycle lengths, which is completely inaccurate. I downloaded a period tracker when we first started TTC and it told me I was in my FW the day I got my Nexplanon taken out. I wasn't even close to ovulating at that point in time. I had another 3 weeks before I did actually ovulate. And even then, it's questionable if I really did that first cycle because with FF's CHs I had a 6 day (or so) LP.
Long story short there -- period trackers, or "guestimating" yourself are incredibly unreliable. Tracking with CM is unreliable. I've had multiple patches of CM in a cycle, some outside of my FW.

Can you share your FF charts, since you're charting?

Keep in mind that you can turn OPKs positive multiple times throughout your cycle, without having actually ovulated or ovulated at that point in time. OPKs test for LH surges, which can happen without ovulation occurring. This is why we tend to push temping, because it's the only accurate way to track your O date at home.
Before you go thinking you have some special reproductive capability, temp and track your cycles accurately and see what happens over the next couple of cycles.

As well, your twin's cycles have nothing to do with yours. You are your own being, completely separate from her. Just because one twin has something go on doesn't mean the other does. Don't do things or assume things based off of your twin's information.

Also, what's LF? Do you mean LP? Can someone spell this out for me, because I've never seen the abbreviation and the quick Google search I did just came up with some person's initials..

britters314

@izza2  I assume she meant LP. I also tried looking it up and can't find anything, so it makes the most sense that she meant LP

NYTino24

Haha yeah oops, I meant LP. I was really tired yesterday. I knew my mom's story sounded really unlikely. I will try to share my chart when I get home. I have only done one Wondfo test and it was the day I got them just to try it out after I was supposed to have ovulated. I have been charting temp on and off since I went off BCP but stopped until I read the book and got a BBT. I am basing my possible guess on ovulation due to CM stopping and starting again 6 days later this cycle plus non-period cramping. I also have finished AF and had her come back pretty light a couple of days later in a few cycles since I've been paying attention and off BCP. I have a lot to learn so I'm trying to figure my body out and I realize I should probably just chart more and keep reading the boards! Thank you all for your responses. 

britters314

NYTino24 said:

Haha yeah oops, I meant LP. I was really tired yesterday. I knew my mom's story sounded really unlikely. I will try to share my chart when I get home. I have only done one Wondfo test and it was the day I got them just to try it out after I was supposed to have ovulated. I have been charting temp on and off since I went off BCP but stopped until I read the book and got a BBT. I am basing my possible guess on ovulation due to CM stopping and starting again 6 days later this cycle plus non-period cramping. I also have finished AF and had her come back pretty light a couple of days later in a few cycles since I've been paying attention and off BCP. I have a lot to learn so I'm trying to figure my body out and I realize I should probably just chart more and keep reading the boards! Thank you all for your responses. 

If you want to share your chart, the best spot to do it is either the daily TWW (two week wait) or WTO (waiting to ovulate) threads. That's where we all share our charts and ask questions.

NYTino24

Thanks! I added the link to my signature, but it only shows May and I'm not sure if others can see previous months like I can. I stopped charting temp in March, April, and most of May until I got the BBT. I'll collect some more data and post on WTO after AF comes I guess!

canavara

**TW: Lurker + sig **

NYTino24 said:

Haha yeah oops, I meant LP. I was really tired yesterday. I knew my mom's story sounded really unlikely. I will try to share my chart when I get home. I have only done one Wondfo test and it was the day I got them just to try it out after I was supposed to have ovulated. I have been charting temp on and off since I went off BCP but stopped until I read the book and got a BBT. I am basing my possible guess on ovulation due to CM stopping and starting again 6 days later this cycle plus non-period cramping. I also have finished AF and had her come back pretty light a couple of days later in a few cycles since I've been paying attention and off BCP. I have a lot to learn so I'm trying to figure my body out and I realize I should probably just chart more and keep reading the boards! Thank you all for your responses. 

As someone who has a history of hyper-ovulating and conceiving multiples, I can honestly say that I have never known when I was ovulating more than once. But when I did, both eggs were released at the same time and when I got a BFP during a hyper ovulation cycle, the conception was definitely on the same date (we only had sex once during FW). I've also had cycles where I had long strings of positive OPKs that would go negative and then come back positive a few days later, O cramps that lasted days, and CM that was a bit all over the place--I had the good fortune of having an ultrasound done during one of *those* cycles and there was only one dominant follicle found--the cause was almost certainly because my body was starting to rev up for ovulating, then for some reason couldn't (stress, illness, travel, so many possible reasons), and then it happened 2-4 days later instead once my body was ready.

Superfetation is so rare that there isn't even halfway decent statistical information on it in most clinical studies--and there's been studies on it for a couple of decades now. Even if your family were that one rare one in a million family, it's unlikely you're going to unlock the mystery with your chart alone

NYTino24

Thanks.  It was 1983. I realize we were probably just talking about hyperovulation being more common in the family and my mother's doctor being off on measurements. Took ovulation tests last night and this morning and the second line is getting darker, so I assume (and I may be way off base) I'm getting ready to ovulate based on all the factors. I wish I had them and the BBT a week ago to see what's really going on! Thanks for all the help.