I spoke to my doctor yesterday asking her about when we will talk about birth plans. She said "Honestly, don't do a birth plan, especially with your first". Why? Because no matter what, she will do what's best for baby and me, and she said it makes her so sad when a mother is SO caught up in her birth plan going exactly how she wants it, that the mother misses the joy and happiness of becoming a mother and just having the baby as safely as possible. I completely agree with her. I am going to trust her to do what's best. She said little things like immediate skin to skin contact, or me wanting to keep the baby with me and not the nursery are things can tell the staff the day of. She said take things as they go. Don't plan on medicating, or other things until it's time to make the decision. It will be less stressful the day of honestly because in your mind you just want that baby born healthy. So. That's my plan.
Amen. The birth of my son was the greatest day of my life. It wasn't perfect but it's part of his story, so it's perfect in its own way. Birth is so unpredictable that it's almost never going to go how you imagine. The people who end up with PTSD are the ones who have it built in their heads down to every detail.
100 times love this! Everybody views labor and delivery differently. Even if you think yours is the worst in the world, it probably isn't. If you have a fairy tale image you will probably be sorely disappointed.
The birth plan we were given to complete has a lot of details about what we want done for / with our son immediately after birth. Some things are an easy answer (If possible, skin to skin, we are working with his father's surgeon to see if they need us to bank the cord blood for cancer treatment, so far the answer is no, so we are planning on delaying)
One of the big questions I am struggling with is the eye antibiotic ointment. My doctor said the primary reason it is done if because of STD's, which we were tested for. My husband has a life threatening allergy to antibiotics, so I am thinking we'll skip it altogether. Anyone heard of any other reason to go ahead and do the eye ointment?
I spoke to my doctor yesterday asking her about when we will talk about birth plans. She said "Honestly, don't do a birth plan, especially with your first". Why? Because no matter what, she will do what's best for baby and me, and she said it makes her so sad when a mother is SO caught up in her birth plan going exactly how she wants it, that the mother misses the joy and happiness of becoming a mother and just having the baby as safely as possible. I completely agree with her. I am going to trust her to do what's best. She said little things like immediate skin to skin contact, or me wanting to keep the baby with me and not the nursery are things can tell the staff the day of. She said take things as they go. Don't plan on medicating, or other things until it's time to make the decision. It will be less stressful the day of honestly because in your mind you just want that baby born healthy. So. That's my plan.
Amen. The birth of my son was the greatest day of my life. It wasn't perfect but it's part of his story, so it's perfect in its own way. Birth is so unpredictable that it's almost never going to go how you imagine. The people who end up with PTSD are the ones who have it built in their heads down to every detail.
100 times love this! Everybody views labor and delivery differently. Even if you think yours is the worst in the world, it probably isn't. If you have a fairy tale image you will probably be sorely disappointed.
Although I agree that having a fairly tale image of birth is not realistic by any means. I have to disagree that a general statement that these are people who end up with PTSD. Being someone who suffers from anxiety and depression, this seems just off putting. I get the point you were trying to make, but having details not go as planned is not the sole reason anyone would get PTSD from birth. I do recognize that there are women out there who have a hard time going with the flow and have a horrible birth experience because of that anxiety. I am sure this is probably what was being pin pointed. But I guess I would never imply that it was their fault they got a serious condition such as PTSD from it. Just trying to offer up a different perspective here that having anxiety about details does not mean the outcome is your fault.
ETA: spelling
*TW Spoiler*
DD: Aug '16
10/2017: Twins confirmed with TTTS at 22 weeks. 10/10/17 Twin B passed after in utero placenta surgery 11/2/17 Twin A & B born 11/26/17: Twin A passed after 24 days fighting in the NICU Benched 6 months BFP: 6/28/18 MC:7/16/18 BO BFP: 10/2/18 EDD 6/15/18
I'm in the camp of having preferences, but going along with the medical advice of my doctor. I find it easier to do this though because most of my preferences align with a more 'medical' birth. Specifically, because I knew I wanted an epidural, that kind of makes most of their standard practices required anyways (ie, IV, restricted movement, etc). I've also found that most hospitals (in my area, anyways) default to the standard after-birth requests such as immediate skin-to-skin, breastfeeding support, couplet care, etc with exceptions only when medically necessary.
The only 'unique' preferences that I have this time around is that if for whatever reason I do need to have a c-section, that I'd consider having a tubal ligation done at the same time. I'm not 100% decided on this because I need time to look into the procedure and after effects, etc, but I am 110% sure I'm done having kids, so regardless, permanent birth control is something I'll be discussing with my doctor in the coming weeks (especially since I really, really, really want to avoid a c-section so the tubal will hopefully not even come up). Regardless of what I do, DH will still be getting a vasectomy too.
I agree about having a doctor / midwife who is aligned with your values. We actually switched practices at 20 weeks because I wasn't feeling comfortable with our previous doctor.
I tend to be a planner, so a doctor who gives me a work sheet is right up my alley. LOL. That being said, this practice also tends towards to more holistic approach.
For example, they have waterproof, submersible, portable fetal monitors. So while they say sure, in a lot of circumstances monitoring the baby is important, they don't require you to be tied to the bed to make it happen. Because of where I choose to birth, needing fetal monitoring doesn't preclude me from walking to progress labor, or even having a water birth, and thereby increase my likelihood of needing further interventions.
Also, my plan has a lot of "I may want this, please make it available to me." which I think is a reasonable approach for a FTM. I'm less worried about the decisions for myself in my plan, and more worried about the choices we need to make for our son.
If I say I want to labor in the tub and change my mind, I can get out, lol. Even if I say no epidural, I can change my mind halfway through (up to a point.) The things which I am deciding about for him seem much more permanent.
@Katm89 I am especially worried about it because it seems like there is a personal potential risk. My husband is anaphylactic with antibiotics (both sides) so it seems like putting them on our newborns eyes before we know if the allergy was transferred seems stupid without a REALLY good reason - to treat a disease we know he wasn't exposed to doesn't seem to qualify, lol.
@Allisun85 as far as I know the reason they do it despite you not testing positive for STD is because the STD can cause blindness which is pretty severe... and they fear that someone will cheat and it will be too early for it to show up on a test. you could always ask around when they do the Strep B testing to retest for STDs just in case you both had something that took 6 months to show up on a test... ( not saying anyone cheated... sometimes STDs spread in weird ways).
I have been reluctant to refuse it because we don't have a worry like you do.... but I do feel like we should wait until after that bonding hour... newborns have a hard time seeing anyway but then to have cream in their eyes during your bonding time seems to take away from that active hour.
@Allisun85 - As someone who has had severe allergic reactions to many medications we decided against the eye ointment with my dd. (And will again for this baby) The risk of having an allergic reaction was way higher than the likelihood that we had a std, so we weren't going to chance a reaction. I have also been told by doctors that most people don't have reactions the first time on a medication so it may not be a concern. I'm one of the lucky ones that has had reactions the first time so I won't chance it.
@sekerambo so is my husband. His parents found out he was so severely allergic when the doctors gave him an antibiotic for an ear infection at 6 months old. Luckily he was in a hospital, because apparently he nearly died.
He even struggles with vaccines since there is a small amount of antibiotic used in the preparation. We can't even use antibacterial cleaning products, he breaks out in hives.
Honestly, I'd rather my child be blind than dead if it did come down to it, so I think we will decline it. Thanks for your input, I just wanted to make sure there wasn't some other reason the risk made sense - my DH was wondering if it was used to protect against e coli (you know the whole pooping in labor thing) since that he and THAT are a bit close for comfort, but it doesn't sound like that is the case.
@Allisun85 There are a lot of responses here lol so I will skip reading some of them and reply to your OP. My Midwife gave me a template for a birth plan as well and we actually made ours at 12 weeks along and will be revising it quite a bit. My doula was explaining the birth plan is more for your nurses to understand your "preferences" because your doula and OB/ Midwife will already have had those chats with you. She also explained that some nurses get bitchy about a birth plan and write c-section on the top of them... as a joke with the other nurses. Hopefully our nurses are nicer. She mentioned to include wording that comes out as a request/ preference instead of a rigid demand because this will go over better with the nurses and they will want to help you achieve some of these goals. Obviously, a lot of the requests on your birth plan change if an emergency happens and to state in there that "if the situation allows, this is what we prefer". I have posted below a birth plan she made with previous clients that she wants me to kind of use as a jumping off point. As far as specific issues like delayed cord clamping and using a hemlock but not being attached to fluids or finding out if you can still have the option to walk around if you need pitocin... I can answer any questions you have... I have done a ton of research and am pretty unbiased... alot of the stuff I kind of tossed a coin and asked my husband what he thought... we also included a section on preferences for a c-section... like requesting our doula be present and that we can be handed the baby right away... and still do skin to skin even in its my husband doing it... its very involved... not to mention you have to include preferences for the baby after the birth...like delayed bathing... and such.... if that's important to you...
Vanessa and Jeff's Birth Preferences
Because we know you can’t “plan” how your labor and birth will
go! All preferences are based on healthy
mom and healthy baby through the labor and birth process. We may consent to interventions once we’ve
discussed all risks, benefits, and alternatives with our birth team. We will have our doula, Lisa Falkner, present
throughout the entire labor and birth.
Before Labor
•
I request
to go to 42 weeks without discussion of induction. I may consent to a Non Stress Test at 41
weeks.
•
I decline
to have vaginal exams during prenatal appointments unless requested.
Stage One Preferences
• Intermittent monitoring after initial assessment
upon admittance.
• Heplock in place but no continuous IV fluids.
• Freedom to use various positions, walk halls,
utilize shower.
• Minimal cervical examinations (no more than once
per 3 hours).
• In case of stalled labor, use of nipple
stimulation via breast pump, essential oils, acupressure are all to be utilized
prior to resorting to artificial rupture of membranes or Pitocin.
• Please do not offer pain medication or an
epidural unless I specifically ask for them.
• Eating/drinking at will.
Stage Two Preferences
• Freedom to push/birth the baby in whatever
position feels most comfortable and effective.
• I prefer to push on my own accord and to stretch
tissues slowly to minimize tearing but will look for guidance and reassurance
that I’m pushing effectively.
• Tearing: I have read much research on the topic
and request to tear naturally vs. an episiotomy.
Stage Three Preferences
• Passive management of the placenta. No routine use of Pitocin unless placenta is
taking too long to deliver or excessive bleeding is occurring.
Baby Care Preferences
• Delayed cord clamping until the cord stops
pulsing (at least 10 minutes).
• Uninterrupted first hour. I request that baby be placed on my chest
immediately after birth and all assessment be done with her there. Weighing/measuring can happen after the first
hour.
• We are declining eye ointment and hep b
• We prefer that the baby’s first bath happen at
home and she will not be bathed while in the hospital.
• We plan to exclusively breastfeed and prefer that
formula not be available to us to ensure a successful start. We would like to utilize a lactation
consultant’s services.
• Rooming in.
We prefer that the baby stay with all at all times and all
procedures/tests be done in our room.
Cesarean
•
In case of
a non-emergency cesarean, I would like both my husband and doula to be present
in OR pending anesthesiologist’s approval.
•
“Family-centered
cesarean” with delayed cord clamping (2-3min) if possible, skin to skin, and
breastfeeding in the OR.
•
In case of
emergency cesarean, I understand that baby needs to be assessed quickly and
will not come straight to my chest. But
if baby’s apgar scores are good and she is found to be in good health, I prefer
she come to my chest as quickly as possible and routine weighing, measuring,
etc. wait until later.
Is this someone's actual birth plan that was given to you as an example? Reading this gives me anxiety but also makes me giggle a little. I just feel like it's sooooo idealistic and almost arrogant. I sorta feel bad for the mom who wrote it. I hope she got what she wanted but sheesh....just enjoy becoming a new mom, lots of those requests don't even really matter, and you'd be none the wiser if it went differently, in the grand scheme of things.
I spoke to my doctor yesterday asking her about when we will talk about birth plans. She said "Honestly, don't do a birth plan, especially with your first". Why? Because no matter what, she will do what's best for baby and me, and she said it makes her so sad when a mother is SO caught up in her birth plan going exactly how she wants it, that the mother misses the joy and happiness of becoming a mother and just having the baby as safely as possible. I completely agree with her. I am going to trust her to do what's best. She said little things like immediate skin to skin contact, or me wanting to keep the baby with me and not the nursery are things can tell the staff the day of. She said take things as they go. Don't plan on medicating, or other things until it's time to make the decision. It will be less stressful the day of honestly because in your mind you just want that baby born healthy. So. That's my plan.
Amen. The birth of my son was the greatest day of my life. It wasn't perfect but it's part of his story, so it's perfect in its own way. Birth is so unpredictable that it's almost never going to go how you imagine. The people who end up with PTSD are the ones who have it built in their heads down to every detail.
100 times love this! Everybody views labor and delivery differently. Even if you think yours is the worst in the world, it probably isn't. If you have a fairy tale image you will probably be sorely disappointed.
Although I agree that having a fairly tale image of birth is not realistic by any means. I have to disagree that a general statement that these are people who end up with PTSD. Being someone who suffers from anxiety and depression, this seems just off putting. I get the point you were trying to make, but having details not go as planned is not the sole reason anyone would get PTSD from birth. I do recognize that there are women out there who have a hard time going with the flow and have a horrible birth experience because of that anxiety. I am sure this is probably what was being pin pointed. But I guess I would never imply that it was their fault they got a serious condition such as PTSD from it. Just trying to offer up a different perspective here that having anxiety about details does not mean the outcome is your fault.
ETA: spelling
I'm actually part of a PPD/PTSD/PPA group because I had PPD, and I have to tell you that the vast majority of the women in the group developed it because they had what they felt were a traumatic birth experiences. To some the experiences may seem minor, but people just react differently to different scenarios. I, personally, got it from being forced to stop BFing when I wasn't ready, but I'm not the majority. Just food for thought from someone who's seen it.
I can't imagine not going in with some type of plan! There are so many option and things that should be discussed with your doctor prior to labor and I know that I was in no condition to listen to options while delivering DS. Here is some of my list: If my water breaks before 36 weeks we are straight to l&d. Decision to induce or not will be made with input from MFM and OB. If later, I want to labor at home for up to 24 hours before heading in to the hospital or until contractions are consistent at 5 minutes apart. I will have a room with a/c. Last time the heat was stuck on and I felt like I was suffocating. No pitocun unless absolutely necessary. Hep-lock preferred after complications from iv last delivery. I prefer intermittent monitoring but if constant is required, I'd rather have the probe than the bands. I want a birthing ball. I won't be restricted to the bed unless I have an epidural. If I choose to have an epidural, I want a pump rather than single dose. If I don't have an epidural, I want to choose my pushing position and not be restricted to my back. No counting during pushes as it increases my anxiety. If I have to labor in my back, I need leg holders to be aware of my hip problems and previous surgery. If I don't have pitocin for labor, I don't want it after birth. If I need stitches, give me lots of meds!!! My doula will take the placenta for encapsulation. Hep B will be delayed, skin to skin ASAP if baby isn't in distress or needing intervention, no eye ointment, no bath until we say ok. The hardest part with my son was not seeing him for 6+ hours after delivery. Even if DD is on the NICU, I want to be taken to see her ASAP.
Question, FTM here. Are the nurses in charge of making sure all of this happens? Do you remind them along the way?
@Hannah0726 We will give the nurses a bullet point list but my husband and doula know my wishes. They will make sure that if there is an option, my preference is honored. I love my current doctor and completely trust him but having gone through my first delivery with a doctor I despised and didn't trust, I want to be prepared to tell them my preferences. They aren't mind readers! As evidenced by this thread too, preferences widely vary so I plan to speak up for myself. If I can't, my written plan can or my husband or doula will be there to be my voice.
TTC since 3/2011 Adenomyosis, LPD, hypothyroidism.
BFP on 7/20/12 after 4 cycles Clomid + IUI
2 large subchorionic hematomas & no heartbeat at 7w6d
D&E 8/18/12 Sonohysterography found septum and necrotic tissue.
Very interesting topic! While I think that having a super detailed birth plan isn't necessarily realistic, I do think there are some things it's good to have an opinion on. Overall I just want the baby to come out safely. If that means a C-section, that isn't my preference, but I don't want to go into with the idea that I'm against it if that is what will be required for a safe delivery.
Things I do have an opinion on: 1.) IF an episiotomy is required, a lateral has less complications than a mid-line one, yet the mid-line seems to be performed more often. 2.) There is a high dose and a regular dose pitocin protocol. My mom is an L+D nurse and a certified lactation consultant. She said at least on their unit the high dose tends to have a much higher failure rate, thus leading to more C-sections. 3.) Delayed cord clamping if possible. 4.) Immediate skin to skin contact and breast feeding in an uninterrupted first hour if the baby doesn't require medical intervention, with delaying the first bath. 5.) Erythromycin ointment only after the first (or maybe second alert period). This is in no way an emergency intervention. 6.) I am all for the vitamin K shot (even though some are of the opinion that the additives may be a large cause of neonatal jaundice) - to me the thought of risking neonatal bleeding is terrifying. 7.) I will decline the day 0 hepatitis B vaccine. I am not anti-vaccine, but this vaccine doesn't make sense if the mother is Hepatitis B negative or if your baby doesn't need surgery, dialysis, or a blood transfusion (I would at least consider the vaccine in these rare cases.) This is considered a "bonus" vaccine. It does not count towards the recommended series of 3 shots - they still need 3 at some point later on.
My big decision hanging in the balance at this point is whether to deliver at the small local hospital or at the tertiary care hospital with a NICU about an hour away from our home. Anybody else in this decision predicament???
I'm in the hospital delivery predicament as well and a bit more high risk with twins. My Ob and hospital is 20 minutes away, however my specialist and NICU is 50 minutes away. My OB said it actually would depend for me how early they decide to come. She said anything before 34-35 weeks I should just go straight to the other one because the babies would end up being transferred there anyway. So most likely I'll just go straight there to limit any other complications!
@SkiChic626 Yea that was an actual client's birth plan. Thankfully I do not have to be as thorough with my wording because a lot of what we would put in our birth plan is common practice where we will be delivering. I think reading out all the bullet points seem rigid but knowing my doula I am sure that she coached her on being ok with all possible outcomes. I don't see the harm is voicing what you want.
Just reading that birth plan above gives me anxiety. I think while it's nice to know what you want, I know it's been said time and time again, but labor is unpredictable. Actually from the time that pregnancy test turns positive, most things are out of our hands. We are at the mercy of our body and most of the things that happen we can't control. This also moves into parenting. 99.9999% of parenting is out of our control, you think your kid is gonna be one way and then they can't seem to get their days and nights on schedule so they sleep all day, want to be up all night, they're colicky, they're allergic to all of the cheap formula so you have to buy the most expensive kind there is, they start eating baby food and the only kind they like is apples or peaches.
Its great to know what you want but I think everyone should keep in mind that things are going to happen the way they happen. I think all of us have the common goal of happy, healthy pregnancies and babies. I don't want anyone to feel that their birth experience was traumatic because they went in expecting xyz to happen and none of that did.
@Lynnlove28 I completely agree. I think most people who have a traumatic birth experience though don't have that experience because of how they thought labor would turn out... I think its more about how they were treated during the process. Or how they thought their care provider would act based on assumptions. I think the birth plan gives you the opportunity to know how your care provider will act. For example I thought that I would be able to delay an IV.... my midwife immediately shot that down and explained why and we had a discussion about it. If I had just assumed that I could refuse it and not understand the reasons why then that may have been harder the day of. It is a useful tool, not a binding contract.
Question, FTM here. Are the nurses in charge of making sure all of this happens? Do you remind them along the way?
No way. My midwives were like don't even both bringing a birth plan with you - the nurses, quite frankly, don't care. If there are things that you really are adamant about, talk about it with your provider ahead of time. The nurses are going to follow the protocols that they've been trained to follow. You and your midwife or OB are the ones who will need to advocate for things that you truly care about and say yes or no when the time comes. Don't expect the L&D nurses to have time to go through all that stuff with you, especially if it's a full moon or rainy week - they'll be SUPER busy!
Edited: Just wanted to add that I was the one who decided it was time for a C-section. The nurses, the OB who came to check on me and my own midwives gave me the option of continuing to labor with little to no progress or to do the c/s. At the end of the day, unless there's a true emergency and it's life or death, you really do get to make those kinds of choices for yourself. I just don't think it's necessary or worth going through this big elaborate birth plans that you don't even remember in the moment anyway.
@Hannah0726 As far as how things happen, at my previous hospital the doctor and my doula both said "Make sure if something is really important to you (like in our case, declining the eye ointment) it's in the top three, and bolded on your birth plan." They were pretty honest about birth plans being more of a suggestion than anything else.
If there are three specific actionable items on top, most hospitals will try to make an effort to honor them.
Everything else I got the impression was "sure, IF we have time, and IF we remember, and IF it falls into the scope of reality at all, we'll try." - That was the big reason we hired a doula, because she is the person who makes what I "want" and what actually happens, jive - she works for us, not the hospital after all, and is there to advocate for us.
If you don't have a doula, and you want something specific, it either falls to you or your husband to push for whatever you wanted if you aren't getting it.
And honestly - if you want massage, scented candles etc - hire a doula. That's more their wheel house. Keeping you and baby safe and alive is the focus of the doctors. Not what scent oil you wanted in the warmer.
Honestly a big part of the reason we switched doctors was because our new hospital is more mother / child driven during a normal birth than process driven. Of course things can go wrong - but if they don't and something is optional, they defer to my preference than theirs.
A friend of mine locally who birthed at the same hospital we were going to before the switch was shocked to find out the hospital has birthing balls. She never asked, they never offered, and even though it was in her birth plan it was kind of near the bottom and was over looked.
I also agree with @katm89 the birth plan is a good starting point PRIOR to birth to align your expectations with what is possible. Not every hospital /center can accommodate a water birth, and honestly we'll all be more rational about it if someone tells us at 28 weeks, and we can adjust to the idea, than when we are laboring, and ask for the tub... lol!
Currently my preference is not to have an epidural or pitocin, but one of my biggest concerns is the delayed cord clamping. I was told by our childbirth class instructor that the midwives do this as common practice, but the OB's tend to "forget" and are just used to clamping the cord right away so they do it out of habit. That makes me nervous and that I will have to make sure I have someone breathing down the doctor's neck the whole time making sure they don't clamp the cord right away. Kinda frustrating.
Just reading that birth plan above gives me anxiety. I think while it's nice to know what you want, I know it's been said time and time again, but labor is unpredictable. Actually from the time that pregnancy test turns positive, most things are out of our hands. We are at the mercy of our body and most of the things that happen we can't control. This also moves into parenting. 99.9999% of parenting is out of our control, you think your kid is gonna be one way and then they can't seem to get their days and nights on schedule so they sleep all day, want to be up all night, they're colicky, they're allergic to all of the cheap formula so you have to buy the most expensive kind there is, they start eating baby food and the only kind they like is apples or peaches.
Its great to know what you want but I think everyone should keep in mind that things are going to happen the way they happen. I think all of us have the common goal of happy, healthy pregnancies and babies. I don't want anyone to feel that their birth experience was traumatic because they went in expecting xyz to happen and none of that did.
This was more eloquently put than what I was trying to say earlier. I didn't mean to offend anyone with anxiety with my PTSD comment, or discount those who truly did have traumatic experiences. But birth is just SO unpredictable and medical professionals have seen it all and know how to quickly respond to a variety of circumstances. I just feel like women who have these visions of a magical birth assisted by unicorns are setting themselves up to be disappointed.
I mean, know what's important to you, but go with the flow because it'll probably be totally different than you pictured and that's okay!
@SkiChic626@Allisun85Yeah that makes more sense. Honestly as I was reading some of the birth plans my thoughts were who is going to remember to do all of that? Some of them sounded extremely detailed. I can't imagine a nurse walking around checking things off a list when they have more important things to worry about. I can see where a doula would come in to maybe take care of those more detailed requests. Thanks for clarifying ladies!
I went in with an idea in my head of what I wanted. I did read up on things before going into labor to be more informed and know the lingo. I also took a birthing course before which answered a lot of my questions. Did I have a print out of a birth plan? No because I'm not a doctor and I know that when it came down to it I was going to do my best to use common sense, my instincts, and the advice of the medical professionals around me.
If you have a clear plan that's great and if you have the will to stick to every aspect of it more power to you. Just make sure you go in with the understanding that nature does not follow a print out, things can change quickly and you need to be OK with that.
@Allisun85I agree wholeheartedly! Also, we just did our hospital tour and the lady explained what is common practice for them at that hospital.. and a lot of it was stuff I was going to put on my birth plan. For example, they don't have a nursery and encourage "rooming in". They delay all the interventions on baby until mom has been able to snuggle for an hour and successfully breastfed... and they are very pro family and pro Momma... a lot of the stuff I thought I would have to fight for is going to just happen( this hospital also does water birth for moms that are hooked up to pitocin too because they have underwater monitors).
I went on vacation and met my husband's cousin and she is a labor and delivery nurse in Virginia and she would have cringed at this hospital and how they do things, meanwhile I feel so relieved and excited for my birth now... so I think for some hospitals a birth plan may not help you so much if they don't care about them or see them as aggressive. Either way though you OB or MW knows your wishes and you know what is acceptable with them... and like you said Allisun85 its great to have these discussions prior to the birth. If something comes up during the birth that we never discussed obviously I am going to look to my doctor to make the choice... because frankly while I'm in labor is not the time to "discuss"
I think it's a good idea to do research ahead of time and make preferences with DH and a doula if you have one. Things like delayed cord clamping is fine but they may forget. DH is a great one to remind them of this.
if you go for an induction, I would research the use of Cervidil versus cyotec and discuss with your OB. Cyotec is not FDA approved for induction but is often commonly used.
I totally understand labor being unpredictable, but I absolutely despise the sentiment that birth plans ruin your birth or that they are unnecessary. If I had a doctor tell me that, I would get my ass up and out of there, because that's a doctor that is never going to respect your wishes. Of course we all just want healthy babies, but many doctors push procedures that may not necessarily be risky, but are not needed. I am delivering at home provided all is going safely because I don't trust a doctor in a big hospital to care about my individual desires for my birth. I have the right to be 100% comfortable with everything happening to and around me. Me making and having a birth plan doesn't mean I'm going to refuse to budge on certain things that could pose a threat to my baby. But if I said no epidural, no episiotomy, etc. then that means NO. And I have that right. And I can promise you that women that have PTSD from their birth experiences aren't because they didn't go perfectly the way they wanted. It's far more common and likely that they were emotional or physical abused or assaulted by their providers for bringing in a birth plan. I do not appreciate your dismissal of moms with birth plans and the common place practice of HCPS making labor hard for moms who don't blanket consent to everything. No, this is not everyone's experience, BUT IT ABSOLUTELY DOES HAPPEN. Not everyone had your labor and delivery.
Unfortunately, I've had enough terrible experiences with medical "professionals" that weren't all that professional. It's wonderful that you haven't! However, as I mentioned, not everyone has had your same experiences.
Oh, I've had shitty doctors before. But that's why I selected an OB who I trust and respect, who delivers in a hospital that has a reputation for being one of the best in our area. And I know that your own doctor doesn't always deliver you, but I researched all the OBs and midwives in her practice (with whom she shares call rotation) and I would be comfortable with any one of them delivering me.
I just get really annoyed when people who have never even given birth watch a biased documentary like "The Business of Being Born" and conclude that all doctors are c-section happy, epidural-wieldng, pitocin pushing sadists who want to give you an episiotomy or clamp your baby's cord too soon just to spite you. Believe it or not, most decisions that are made during birth by medical professionals are to give you the best outcome possible. Sure, different doctors have different philosophies. And some doctors are certainly more knowledgeable or progressive than others. But whether you tear naturally or you have an episiotomy, does it really make a big difference in the grand scheme of things? You're still going to have trouble sitting for a week and your first postpartum poop will probably rival the pain that giving birth itself was.
I'm not against knowing what your options are, having a preference, and discussing them with your healthcare provider. And believe it or not, most providers will present you with your options in the moment, and if they don't, it's probably because the course of care is a non-negotiable, given the circumstances (which you may not understand because you're not a doctor). I'm just saying, the easier you're able to roll with the punches, the more you'll look back and enjoy your day, regardless of how imperfect it was, because that's the day you met your baby and nothing else really matters in comparison.
I'm not against knowing what your options are, having a preference, and discussing them with your healthcare provider. And believe it or not, most providers will present you with your options in the moment, and if they don't, it's probably because the course of care is a non-negotiable, given the circumstances (which you may not understand because you're not a doctor). I'm just saying, the easier you're able to roll with the punches, the more you'll look back and enjoy your day, regardless of how imperfect it was, because that's the day you met your baby and nothing else really matters in comparison.
Completely agree with everything, especially the bolded. You may think you know everything there is about birthing your baby right now but I guarantee when you 24 hours into labor, screaming in pain, exhausted, and starving you're gonna be a little foggy and may not fully grasp the severity of something if anything were to go wrong.
I think that women should research and know their options but I don't know how many times I can say that labor is completely UNPREDICTABLE. When it comes down to it, it's really not about what you want it's 110% about what is the safest way to get your baby out.
Unfortunately, I've had enough terrible experiences with medical "professionals" that weren't all that professional. It's wonderful that you haven't! However, as I mentioned, not everyone has had your same experiences.
That's so unfortunate I give women mad props who deliver at home! I feel like I have a little of both fears, the staff not honoring my requests when they are able to. But my fear of something going wrong without a medical professional present greatly outweighs that first fear. That's why I picked a midwife who delivers in a hospital setting. Now I'm just crossing my fingers that I don't go into labor on a weekend, because then I get whoever is on call! Yikes!
*TW Spoiler*
DD: Aug '16
10/2017: Twins confirmed with TTTS at 22 weeks. 10/10/17 Twin B passed after in utero placenta surgery 11/2/17 Twin A & B born 11/26/17: Twin A passed after 24 days fighting in the NICU Benched 6 months BFP: 6/28/18 MC:7/16/18 BO BFP: 10/2/18 EDD 6/15/18
Unfortunately, I've had enough terrible experiences with medical "professionals" that weren't all that professional. It's wonderful that you haven't! However, as I mentioned, not everyone has had your same experiences.
That's so unfortunate I give women mad props who deliver at home! I feel like I have a little of both fears, the staff not honoring my requests when they are able to. But my fear of something going wrong without a medical professional present greatly outweighs that first fear. That's why I picked a midwife who delivers in a hospital setting. Now I'm just crossing my fingers that I don't go into labor on a weekend, because then I get whoever is on call! Yikes!
I think that you have to be aware of all the possibilities and comfortable with your choice in doctor/midwife. I think it is terrible that people do have bad experiences, but my comfort and plan is secondary to my babies safety. Like @midwestbaby said in the bold comment, the hospital setting with a midwife is what works for her and maybe delivering at home is what works for you. Personally, I like doctors and the more abrasive the better. I need facts and I need to know that no matter what happens there is a team of trained professionals whose goal is to make sure my baby and myself are 100% safe.
I absolutely had fears of the staff not honoring my requests - with no medical reasoning, simply out of convenience (for them.) I had those fears, looking back, because my doctor and her staff were dismissive of my concerns from the 8 week appointment on, glossed over answering my questions, and didn't take a pre-existing condition (which nearly prevented us from TTC) seriously.
We changed practices.
Honestly, if you don't trust you doctor - you should do the same now. I can say I am SO much more comfortable with this practice, and I know if they throw my birth plan out the window it will be for a good reason.
That being said - I feel better with my color coded (probably useless) spreadsheets.
So when I had DD in January of 2010 I had a birth plan. I packed it in my hospital bag and guess what it never even made it out of the bag. My birth experience was wonderful. I have no complaints. I was given choices and they took my answer and went with it. My parents were not happy with how long they had to wait to see us after the birth but that was not my main concern. I don't plan on making a plan this time. Everyone is different. This worked for me and I trust my OB as well as the other OBs in her practice.
Having a detailed birth plan in no way means that the birth experience isn't going to be as enjoyable. I had a very detailed birth plan for a natural, unmedicated birth, and ended up with a c-section. The only thing about my experience that I would change, is having to fight the doctor (considered one of the best in the area) that was pushing me to into his idea of birth. My experience was so great that unlike many people I have spoken to, I was ready to do it again immediately. What made the experience so great was being informed enough to make the decisions necessary and having a choice.
I totally understand labor being unpredictable, but I absolutely despise the sentiment that birth plans ruin your birth or that they are unnecessary. If I had a doctor tell me that, I would get my ass up and out of there, because that's a doctor that is never going to respect your wishes. Of course we all just want healthy babies, but many doctors push procedures that may not necessarily be risky, but are not needed. I am delivering at home provided all is going safely because I don't trust a doctor in a big hospital to care about my individual desires for my birth. I have the right to be 100% comfortable with everything happening to and around me. Me making and having a birth plan doesn't mean I'm going to refuse to budge on certain things that could pose a threat to my baby. But if I said no epidural, no episiotomy, etc. then that means NO. And I have that right. And I can promise you that women that have PTSD from their birth experiences aren't because they didn't go perfectly the way they wanted. It's far more common and likely that they were emotional or physical abused or assaulted by their providers for bringing in a birth plan. I do not appreciate your dismissal of moms with birth plans and the common place practice of HCPS making labor hard for moms who don't blanket consent to everything. No, this is not everyone's experience, BUT IT ABSOLUTELY DOES HAPPEN. Not everyone had your labor and delivery.
QFP But also:
Sometimes, episiotomies are pretty integral in delivering your baby safely. Example: I pushed for over and hour and a half and baby stopped making progress. She had the cord wrapped around her neck. I wasn't tearing. Doc made a couple tiny incisions and literally baby popped out the next 2 pushes. I trusted my doctor because being stubborn could have lead to my child being strangled or suffocating. So when you say you can so no to an episiotomy, thats true. But it could damn well save your babies life, or save them from brain damage. But that's just my 2 cents... Also, my vagina is just fine, far better than if I had gotten a severe tear.
@Allisun85 There are a lot of responses here lol so I will skip reading some of them and reply to your OP. My Midwife gave me a template for a birth plan as well and we actually made ours at 12 weeks along and will be revising it quite a bit. My doula was explaining the birth plan is more for your nurses to understand your "preferences" because your doula and OB/ Midwife will already have had those chats with you. She also explained that some nurses get bitchy about a birth plan and write c-section on the top of them... as a joke with the other nurses. Hopefully our nurses are nicer. She mentioned to include wording that comes out as a request/ preference instead of a rigid demand because this will go over better with the nurses and they will want to help you achieve some of these goals. Obviously, a lot of the requests on your birth plan change if an emergency happens and to state in there that "if the situation allows, this is what we prefer". I have posted below a birth plan she made with previous clients that she wants me to kind of use as a jumping off point. As far as specific issues like delayed cord clamping and using a hemlock but not being attached to fluids or finding out if you can still have the option to walk around if you need pitocin... I can answer any questions you have... I have done a ton of research and am pretty unbiased... alot of the stuff I kind of tossed a coin and asked my husband what he thought... we also included a section on preferences for a c-section... like requesting our doula be present and that we can be handed the baby right away... and still do skin to skin even in its my husband doing it... its very involved... not to mention you have to include preferences for the baby after the birth...like delayed bathing... and such.... if that's important to you...
Vanessa and Jeff's Birth Preferences
Because we know you can’t “plan” how your labor and birth will
go! All preferences are based on healthy
mom and healthy baby through the labor and birth process. We may consent to interventions once we’ve
discussed all risks, benefits, and alternatives with our birth team. We will have our doula, Lisa Falkner, present
throughout the entire labor and birth.
Before Labor
•
I request
to go to 42 weeks without discussion of induction. I may consent to a Non Stress Test at 41
weeks.
•
I decline
to have vaginal exams during prenatal appointments unless requested.
Stage One Preferences
• Intermittent monitoring after initial assessment
upon admittance.
• Heplock in place but no continuous IV fluids.
• Freedom to use various positions, walk halls,
utilize shower.
• Minimal cervical examinations (no more than once
per 3 hours).
• In case of stalled labor, use of nipple
stimulation via breast pump, essential oils, acupressure are all to be utilized
prior to resorting to artificial rupture of membranes or Pitocin.
• Please do not offer pain medication or an
epidural unless I specifically ask for them.
• Eating/drinking at will.
Stage Two Preferences
• Freedom to push/birth the baby in whatever
position feels most comfortable and effective.
• I prefer to push on my own accord and to stretch
tissues slowly to minimize tearing but will look for guidance and reassurance
that I’m pushing effectively.
• Tearing: I have read much research on the topic
and request to tear naturally vs. an episiotomy.
Stage Three Preferences
• Passive management of the placenta. No routine use of Pitocin unless placenta is
taking too long to deliver or excessive bleeding is occurring.
Baby Care Preferences
• Delayed cord clamping until the cord stops
pulsing (at least 10 minutes).
• Uninterrupted first hour. I request that baby be placed on my chest
immediately after birth and all assessment be done with her there. Weighing/measuring can happen after the first
hour.
• We are declining eye ointment and hep b
• We prefer that the baby’s first bath happen at
home and she will not be bathed while in the hospital.
• We plan to exclusively breastfeed and prefer that
formula not be available to us to ensure a successful start. We would like to utilize a lactation
consultant’s services.
• Rooming in.
We prefer that the baby stay with all at all times and all
procedures/tests be done in our room.
Cesarean
•
In case of
a non-emergency cesarean, I would like both my husband and doula to be present
in OR pending anesthesiologist’s approval.
•
“Family-centered
cesarean” with delayed cord clamping (2-3min) if possible, skin to skin, and
breastfeeding in the OR.
•
In case of
emergency cesarean, I understand that baby needs to be assessed quickly and
will not come straight to my chest. But
if baby’s apgar scores are good and she is found to be in good health, I prefer
she come to my chest as quickly as possible and routine weighing, measuring,
etc. wait until later.
Is this someone's actual birth plan that was given to you as an example? Reading this gives me anxiety but also makes me giggle a little. I just feel like it's sooooo idealistic and almost arrogant. I sorta feel bad for the mom who wrote it. I hope she got what she wanted but sheesh....just enjoy becoming a new mom, lots of those requests don't even really matter, and you'd be none the wiser if it went differently, in the grand scheme of things.
*lurking from July* I just want to point out that one person's "idealistic" is another person's "totally normal, run of the mill". The above is basically the policy my midwife and birthing center presented to me with the back-up "family centered c/s" as the hospital next door's policy. Birth plans can be helpful, but even better is not needing one because your care provider's standard care aligns with what you want. It's never too late to change providers and no one should have to feel shamed because of their preferences being different. If something matters to you, it matters.
This tread has helped me think about alot. I must make a birth plan in order to deliver at the hospital i want -_- I had some ideas but reading all the response I have a better idea of what I want. Ty for this post
After reading everyone's responses I think I've decided not to have a birth plan. I'm usually really controlling but I also have anxiety and feeling the need to control everything makes my anxiety worse. I think I'm just going to go in and go with the flow knowing a c-section is very likely and rely on my doctor to do what's best for me.
Re: Let's talk about - Birth Plans?
The birth plan we were given to complete has a lot of details about what we want done for / with our son immediately after birth. Some things are an easy answer (If possible, skin to skin, we are working with his father's surgeon to see if they need us to bank the cord blood for cancer treatment, so far the answer is no, so we are planning on delaying)
One of the big questions I am struggling with is the eye antibiotic ointment. My doctor said the primary reason it is done if because of STD's, which we were tested for. My husband has a life threatening allergy to antibiotics, so I am thinking we'll skip it altogether. Anyone heard of any other reason to go ahead and do the eye ointment?
ETA: spelling
DD: Aug '16
10/2017: Twins confirmed with TTTS at 22 weeks.
10/10/17 Twin B passed after in utero placenta surgery
11/2/17 Twin A & B born
11/26/17: Twin A passed after 24 days fighting in the NICU
Benched 6 months
BFP: 6/28/18 MC:7/16/18 BO
BFP: 10/2/18 EDD 6/15/18
The only 'unique' preferences that I have this time around is that if for whatever reason I do need to have a c-section, that I'd consider having a tubal ligation done at the same time. I'm not 100% decided on this because I need time to look into the procedure and after effects, etc, but I am 110% sure I'm done having kids, so regardless, permanent birth control is something I'll be discussing with my doctor in the coming weeks (especially since I really, really, really want to avoid a c-section so the tubal will hopefully not even come up). Regardless of what I do, DH will still be getting a vasectomy too.
I agree about having a doctor / midwife who is aligned with your values. We actually switched practices at 20 weeks because I wasn't feeling comfortable with our previous doctor.
I tend to be a planner, so a doctor who gives me a work sheet is right up my alley. LOL. That being said, this practice also tends towards to more holistic approach.
For example, they have waterproof, submersible, portable fetal monitors. So while they say sure, in a lot of circumstances monitoring the baby is important, they don't require you to be tied to the bed to make it happen. Because of where I choose to birth, needing fetal monitoring doesn't preclude me from walking to progress labor, or even having a water birth, and thereby increase my likelihood of needing further interventions.
Also, my plan has a lot of "I may want this, please make it available to me." which I think is a reasonable approach for a FTM. I'm less worried about the decisions for myself in my plan, and more worried about the choices we need to make for our son.
If I say I want to labor in the tub and change my mind, I can get out, lol. Even if I say no epidural, I can change my mind halfway through (up to a point.) The things which I am deciding about for him seem much more permanent.
@Katm89 I am especially worried about it because it seems like there is a personal potential risk. My husband is anaphylactic with antibiotics (both sides) so it seems like putting them on our newborns eyes before we know if the allergy was transferred seems stupid without a REALLY good reason - to treat a disease we know he wasn't exposed to doesn't seem to qualify, lol.
I have been reluctant to refuse it because we don't have a worry like you do.... but I do feel like we should wait until after that bonding hour... newborns have a hard time seeing anyway but then to have cream in their eyes during your bonding time seems to take away from that active hour.
@sekerambo so is my husband. His parents found out he was so severely allergic when the doctors gave him an antibiotic for an ear infection at 6 months old. Luckily he was in a hospital, because apparently he nearly died.
He even struggles with vaccines since there is a small amount of antibiotic used in the preparation. We can't even use antibacterial cleaning products, he breaks out in hives.
Honestly, I'd rather my child be blind than dead if it did come down to it, so I think we will decline it. Thanks for your input, I just wanted to make sure there wasn't some other reason the risk made sense - my DH was wondering if it was used to protect against e coli (you know the whole pooping in labor thing) since that he and THAT are a bit close for comfort, but it doesn't sound like that is the case.
Baby #2 due 8/11/2016
I'm actually part of a PPD/PTSD/PPA group because I had PPD, and I have to tell you that the vast majority of the women in the group developed it because they had what they felt were a traumatic birth experiences. To some the experiences may seem minor, but people just react differently to different scenarios. I, personally, got it from being forced to stop BFing when I wasn't ready, but I'm not the majority. Just food for thought from someone who's seen it.
Baby #2 due 8/11/2016
Its great to know what you want but I think everyone should keep in mind that things are going to happen the way they happen. I think all of us have the common goal of happy, healthy pregnancies and babies. I don't want anyone to feel that their birth experience was traumatic because they went in expecting xyz to happen and none of that did.
Edited: Just wanted to add that I was the one who decided it was time for a C-section. The nurses, the OB who came to check on me and my own midwives gave me the option of continuing to labor with little to no progress or to do the c/s. At the end of the day, unless there's a true emergency and it's life or death, you really do get to make those kinds of choices for yourself. I just don't think it's necessary or worth going through this big elaborate birth plans that you don't even remember in the moment anyway.
Baby #2 due 8/11/2016
@Hannah0726 As far as how things happen, at my previous hospital the doctor and my doula both said "Make sure if something is really important to you (like in our case, declining the eye ointment) it's in the top three, and bolded on your birth plan." They were pretty honest about birth plans being more of a suggestion than anything else.
If there are three specific actionable items on top, most hospitals will try to make an effort to honor them.
Everything else I got the impression was "sure, IF we have time, and IF we remember, and IF it falls into the scope of reality at all, we'll try." - That was the big reason we hired a doula, because she is the person who makes what I "want" and what actually happens, jive - she works for us, not the hospital after all, and is there to advocate for us.
If you don't have a doula, and you want something specific, it either falls to you or your husband to push for whatever you wanted if you aren't getting it.
And honestly - if you want massage, scented candles etc - hire a doula. That's more their wheel house. Keeping you and baby safe and alive is the focus of the doctors. Not what scent oil you wanted in the warmer.
Honestly a big part of the reason we switched doctors was because our new hospital is more mother / child driven during a normal birth than process driven. Of course things can go wrong - but if they don't and something is optional, they defer to my preference than theirs.
A friend of mine locally who birthed at the same hospital we were going to before the switch was shocked to find out the hospital has birthing balls. She never asked, they never offered, and even though it was in her birth plan it was kind of near the bottom and was over looked.
I also agree with @katm89 the birth plan is a good starting point PRIOR to birth to align your expectations with what is possible. Not every hospital /center can accommodate a water birth, and honestly we'll all be more rational about it if someone tells us at 28 weeks, and we can adjust to the idea, than when we are laboring, and ask for the tub... lol!
I mean, know what's important to you, but go with the flow because it'll probably be totally different than you pictured and that's okay!
BFP #2 8/22/12 | EDD 5/5/13 | DS1 born 5/9/13
BFP #3 4/25/15 | EDD 1/7/16 | MMC 7/2/15 @ 13w1d | D&E 7/8/15
BFP #4 12/9/15 | EDD 8/22/16 | DS2 born 5/18/16 at 26w2d
Just keep swimming.
If you have a clear plan that's great and if you have the will to stick to every aspect of it more power to you. Just make sure you go in with the understanding that nature does not follow a print out, things can change quickly and you need to be OK with that.
I went on vacation and met my husband's cousin and she is a labor and delivery nurse in Virginia and she would have cringed at this hospital and how they do things, meanwhile I feel so relieved and excited for my birth now... so I think for some hospitals a birth plan may not help you so much if they don't care about them or see them as aggressive. Either way though you OB or MW knows your wishes and you know what is acceptable with them... and like you said Allisun85 its great to have these discussions prior to the birth. If something comes up during the birth that we never discussed obviously I am going to look to my doctor to make the choice... because frankly while I'm in labor is not the time to "discuss"
if you go for an induction, I would research the use of Cervidil versus cyotec and discuss with your OB. Cyotec is not FDA approved for induction but is often commonly used.
BFP #2 8/22/12 | EDD 5/5/13 | DS1 born 5/9/13
BFP #3 4/25/15 | EDD 1/7/16 | MMC 7/2/15 @ 13w1d | D&E 7/8/15
BFP #4 12/9/15 | EDD 8/22/16 | DS2 born 5/18/16 at 26w2d
Just keep swimming.
I just get really annoyed when people who have never even given birth watch a biased documentary like "The Business of Being Born" and conclude that all doctors are c-section happy, epidural-wieldng, pitocin pushing sadists who want to give you an episiotomy or clamp your baby's cord too soon just to spite you. Believe it or not, most decisions that are made during birth by medical professionals are to give you the best outcome possible. Sure, different doctors have different philosophies. And some doctors are certainly more knowledgeable or progressive than others. But whether you tear naturally or you have an episiotomy, does it really make a big difference in the grand scheme of things? You're still going to have trouble sitting for a week and your first postpartum poop will probably rival the pain that giving birth itself was.
I'm not against knowing what your options are, having a preference, and discussing them with your healthcare provider. And believe it or not, most providers will present you with your options in the moment, and if they don't, it's probably because the course of care is a non-negotiable, given the circumstances (which you may not understand because you're not a doctor). I'm just saying, the easier you're able to roll with the punches, the more you'll look back and enjoy your day, regardless of how imperfect it was, because that's the day you met your baby and nothing else really matters in comparison.
BFP #2 8/22/12 | EDD 5/5/13 | DS1 born 5/9/13
BFP #3 4/25/15 | EDD 1/7/16 | MMC 7/2/15 @ 13w1d | D&E 7/8/15
BFP #4 12/9/15 | EDD 8/22/16 | DS2 born 5/18/16 at 26w2d
Just keep swimming.
I think that women should research and know their options but I don't know how many times I can say that labor is completely UNPREDICTABLE. When it comes down to it, it's really not about what you want it's 110% about what is the safest way to get your baby out.
DD: Aug '16
10/2017: Twins confirmed with TTTS at 22 weeks.
10/10/17 Twin B passed after in utero placenta surgery
11/2/17 Twin A & B born
11/26/17: Twin A passed after 24 days fighting in the NICU
Benched 6 months
BFP: 6/28/18 MC:7/16/18 BO
BFP: 10/2/18 EDD 6/15/18
I absolutely had fears of the staff not honoring my requests - with no medical reasoning, simply out of convenience (for them.) I had those fears, looking back, because my doctor and her staff were dismissive of my concerns from the 8 week appointment on, glossed over answering my questions, and didn't take a pre-existing condition (which nearly prevented us from TTC) seriously.
We changed practices.
Honestly, if you don't trust you doctor - you should do the same now. I can say I am SO much more comfortable with this practice, and I know if they throw my birth plan out the window it will be for a good reason.
That being said - I feel better with my color coded (probably useless) spreadsheets.
I don't plan on making a plan this time. Everyone is different. This worked for me and I trust my OB as well as the other OBs in her practice.
Sometimes, episiotomies are pretty integral in delivering your baby safely. Example: I pushed for over and hour and a half and baby stopped making progress. She had the cord wrapped around her neck. I wasn't tearing. Doc made a couple tiny incisions and literally baby popped out the next 2 pushes. I trusted my doctor because being stubborn could have lead to my child being strangled or suffocating. So when you say you can so no to an episiotomy, thats true. But it could damn well save your babies life, or save them from brain damage. But that's just my 2 cents... Also, my vagina is just fine, far better than if I had gotten a severe tear.
I had some ideas but reading all the response I have a better idea of what I want. Ty for this post