The Business of Being Born - rant

kqualls5

I'm overdue, and at this point in my pregnancy I lay in bed & watch Netflix more than I'd like to admit. Anyway. Just watched TBOBB annnnnd I'd like to say it was the most effing biased thing I've ever watched. Yes. Obstetricians are trained surgeons. But not all of them are out there to put in interventions so they're more entertained.

First off I love that my birthing experience is going to be very medical and not all granola & zen. It makes me feel safer that way. Second, and more relevant, my OB is amazing and wants me to have the closest birth to my birth plan as we can get. She doesn't want to induce unless we have to. She tells me all the time how she believes I can do it with no epi (I really don't want to unless I have to, and I've expressed to her how everyone I talk to says I'd be "stupid to not get it").

This documentary made OBs out to be these surgical monsters. And I'm irritated about it. Sometimes things go wrong because that's life and cesarians are 100% necessary. Okay. Rant over.

LIly436

No one wants to work harder then they have to. Surgery is more risky then vaginal birth and no doctor wants to put a patient into more risk then necessary. They do have to follow certain guidelines and not take unnecessary risks

kqualls5

@LIly436 exactly. They state numerous times in the video that OB's manipulate moms to get surgery or other interventions by telling them that the baby is at risk. Like I'm pretty sure that's called malpractice and hardly any doctors (I mean I'm sure there's some scummy ones out there) will lie to a patient to make their job more interesting.

doozer1345

My OB has given me some good hope that I MAY be able to have a vaginal birth this time and was the one to bring it up. There are many doctors out there that are surgery happy but it's always irritated me when they group them all together like that. My doctor has been very granola compared to some I've heard of.

ivyvines6

I had the exact opposit effect from it, but I can see where you're coming from about the bias in the film. It made me feel more empowered to make choices and express them to my OB. He is on board with my birth plan and has let me figure out what I'm most comfortable with at each visit. (So far anyway)

If you're interested in a book that will truly make your head spin, check out the business of baby! I'm pretty untrusting of the medical field in general, but this book took every single possible situation WAY too far!

Gingermom15

I watched it a few weeks before DS was born and I really don't know how I felt about it. It was just extreme both directions, yes I'm sure there are OB's out there who have done CS's for convenience but I'm also sure they are few and far between. Especially now with insurance companies needing more and more proof it was necessary. I think it did great depicting home births and the stigma some people may have about midwives. I know they are trained medical professionals and do awesome with empowering women and their birth experiences. My mother had my youngest three siblings at home and I got to witness their births, it was a wonderful thing.
On the other hand, not every woman is going to do well with an all natural, at home birth. HB's are awesome in my personal opinion, but it just isn't safe for everyone.
My OB is all about keeping things natural, not inducing unless absolutely necessary and avoiding c sections. She is by no means a monster, yet if it weren't for all those "horrible" medical interventions my baby would be dead. He would have either been stillborn if she hadn't caught his growth restriction or died during birth. If I were at home giving birth I wouldn't have my son right now, that is just reality. It took two doses of epinephrine and numerous people pushing my belly to basically resuscitate him from the outside on the way to the OR. I'd rather give up my birth plan and be under for birth and have my baby born alive.

The episodes of TBOBB seemed to be a little less biased.

PugsandKisses

I have a mouth foaming hatred for this 'documentary '. It is so anti medical anything.
If you want a home birth, natural birth, water birth, dolphin birth.... I don't care.

I hate it because women watch it and then feel like failures if they can not follow what they see 100%. With out medical intervention, both myself and children would not be alive.
I am not a failure for needing an indication. I am not weak for needing a C/S. I am not less of a woman for not birthing in a pool chanting with Enya. But this movie made me, and so many others feel that way.

Sconesy..Cider

I haven't watched the documentary, but I read Ricki Lake's book "Your Best Birth" when I was pregnant with DS. It made me aware of my options, but I did feel the bias.

I don't feel like my OB pushed me towards anything except an induction to avoid a holiday birth. I do feel that was totally for convenience's sake instead of baby's and my needs. I should've said no, but I was scared, despite learning that inductions have a higher c-section rate. I'll try to do better being present and remembering my options this round.

LIly436

I did not watch the movie, but kind of understand what it is about - evil doctors are out to get you to make more money. BS. The fact is, that doctors are bound by several things when they make decisions. Other then safety and ethics, they have to answer to insurance companies, which are not interested in paying for the CS if it is not necessary. Faking the necessity of it is just too complicated. Second, they have to follow the standards of care and make sure they cant be accused of malpractice. 
I personally unable to meditate or tolerate pain. Breathing/other did not work during my first birth. I was so shaken by my natural childbirth, I am absolutely terrified of my delivery this time. I trust doctors and have no problem having an intervention, if it is going to save my life or the life and health of my child. People just forgotten how many women and children used to die before medicine advanced to the modern level

flowerpower5838

I was pretty impartial to the documentary. It was clearly biased to the point of ridiculousness for sure. However, as a FTM, I DO feel like it opened my eyes a little to the fact that I have a say in things and gave me a better idea of the choices I can make within reason during my (hospital) delivery.

kitteh81

It's been ages since I saw the documentary, but I don't think that the message that doctors tend to push C-Sections and interventions when they might not actually be necessary is unrealistic.

No one is suggesting that OBs are all involved in a grand conspiracy to cut all their patients open, but the point is that OBs are trained surgeons, and when you're a hammer everything starts looking like a nail, you know?

I've already read many many stories of women being told that their babies are measuring "big" throughout their pregnancies, and the suggestion of needing a CS has come up for almost all of them. The national CS rate is around something like 30% if I'm not mistaken, and I think it's been proven that the rate naturally drops when labor isn't actively managed and interventions aren't pushed. Simply starting labor via induction increases the chances of CS, and unfortunately many doctors will still authorize induction in the absence of medical necessity. I myself was almost pushed into being induced, and I'm pretty sure that it was due to the upcoming 4th of July (baby ended up coming on her own on June 28th.)

I think the history of how labors have been managed by the medical field throughout the years is pretty appalling, and although TBOBB might seem extreme, I think it emerged as a reaction to the way birth has benn managed (and mismanaged) over the years.

smount2011

I didn't like how ob's and hospitals were talked about so poorly. Not all doctors are like that. I love my doctor. He is old enough to be my grandfather but he is also as hippie as they come! The only reason I watched it (at his recommendation) was to see if my dd could handle watching a birth- because she would like to be in the delivery room (and my doctor is all for her being in there).

dramaphile

I haven't seen the documentary, but it doesn't surprise me. The purpose is to be inflammatory, and so it is only going to show one side of the story. I don't plan on watching it because I prefer to do my research from less sensationalist sources.

I chose to have an unmedicated birth at a birth center with midwives, but I know that option is not one available to everyone. I do wish that there were more birth centers available for women with uncomplicated pregnancies to have as an option, as I know it can be difficult to get the right support to attempt an unmedicated (or less medicated) birth at a hospital. My choice to go with a birth center was the result of a lot of research and the desire to have a semblance of control over my birth process, provided that it went normally. I went into my labor knowing that I might have to be transferred to a hospital (which was across the street) if there were any complications during my labor/birth and I felt comfortable knowing that any medical intervention (induction, c section, etc) would be because it was necessary. I felt comfortable knowing that the Certified nurse Midwives there were not against needed medical intervention, and would transfer to hospital if there was fetal or maternal distress.

Not everyone wants or can have an unmedicated birth, and no one should be shamed for their choices (or their doctor's choices) during labor and birth. I do think it is important to know all your options and to be informed about the medical interventions you may come across during labor and birth, and understand their risks and benefits. You may not ultimately have control over what happens during your birth, but you should prepare yourself so you understand what is happening.

tl;dr: you should educate yourself about your birth, but don't rely on TBOBB to provide that education.

redfallon

It took me two years and three tries to get through that movie. I started to watch it when pregnant with DD and only got through six mins before I was so pissed off I stopped it. I tried watching it again this last pregnancy and got a little further at around 12 mins before getting even more pissed off and stopping it. I finally finished watching it the third time that I forced myself to finish it. Pisses me off that they portray all OBs as only wanting to do CSections, not caring more about the patient than time and money or convenience, etc. That is the opposite of my experience with my OB and the other OBs in her practice. A CSection is a last resort after all other options have been tried. I ended up having a CSection with this baby, but he was sunny side up and wouldn't turn. The doctor and nurses tried to get him to turn by moving my body around and the doctor even tried getting in there to turn him, but he was a big baby (9 lbs 12 oz), wouldn't turn, and wouldn't come out with an hour of pushing. That was after I'd been there for 15 hours. I was too tired to continue and we all agreed that a CSection was the best option at that point. 

jenniferamcooper

@redfallon I totally agree, my OB was the one who pushed for me to do a vbac. I might not get to but she talked me through the research and convinced me that it's the best way to go if I go into spontaneous labour.
She said she's do everything she can so I don't have to have a c section. Maybe I stumbled across one of the good ones?

kyraaD

I'm not even halfway through & this is the most biased, ridiculous documentary I've ever watched.

goldie987

Gotta agree, that "documentary" made me legitimately angry. I got through maybe 1/4 of it and had to turn it off before I started yelling at the screen. I'm all for educating about alternate plans for birth but in a non-biased way.

lalala2004

I haven't seen it, honestly I was afraid it would be graphic birth that would freak me out more than anything. However, I did watch some parts of the "sequel" More Business of Being Born or something. The interview with Ina May Gaskin is interesting. She doesn't blame OBs, and actually faults insurance companies for trying to control OBs. She implied drugs in labor and excessive ultrasounds may have a link to autism, but she didn't claim it as true, just as something to be researched and considered.

The celebrity birth stories in the second part were interesting as well, and presented as very unbiased. They even said at one point that the important thing is that the baby arrives healthy, no matter how it happens.

kyraaD

lalala2004 said:

I haven't seen it, honestly I was afraid it would be graphic birth that would freak me out more than anything. However, I did watch some parts of the "sequel" More Business of Being Born or something. The interview with Ina May Gaskin is interesting. She doesn't blame OBs, and actually faults insurance companies for trying to control OBs. She implied drugs in labor and excessive ultrasounds may have a link to autism, but she didn't claim it as true, just as something to be researched and considered.

The celebrity birth stories in the second part were interesting as well, and presented as very unbiased. They even said at one point that the important thing is that the baby arrives healthy, no matter how it happens.

they said this in the sequel? cause in the first one (just finished watching it), one of the filmmakers said something along the lines of "most women dont think or care about how baby is born, just as long as baby is born healthy. but they should actually be focused on the experience of the birth & feeling everything, which you can only get from a natural/home birth." they also said that because so many celebrities were getting c-sections, it was encouraging other mothers to get c-sections. so that's weird that they would kind of back-track in the sequel.

[Deleted User]

kyraaD said:

I haven't seen it, honestly I was afraid it would be graphic birth that would freak me out more than anything. However, I did watch some parts of the "sequel" More Business of Being Born or something. The interview with Ina May Gaskin is interesting. She doesn't blame OBs, and actually faults insurance companies for trying to control OBs. She implied drugs in labor and excessive ultrasounds may have a link to autism, but she didn't claim it as true, just as something to be researched and considered. The celebrity birth stories in the second part were interesting as well, and presented as very unbiased. They even said at one point that the important thing is that the baby arrives healthy, no matter how it happens.

they said this in the sequel? cause in the first one (just finished watching it), one of the filmmakers said something along the lines of "most women dont think or care about how baby is born, just as long as baby is born healthy. but they should actually be focused on the experience of the birth & feeling everything, which you can only get from a natural/home birth." they also said that because so many celebrities were getting c-sections, it was encouraging other mothers to get c-sections. so that's weird that they would kind of back-track in the sequel.

Dirty lurker here.  I've watched this movie several times and don't remember at any point saying the only way to get a good experience was a home birth.  Do you remember who was talking or which part it was?  Also, when they were speaking about c-sections and celebs they were only talking about elective c-sections - like with no medical reason.

I definitely think this movie is biased, but I disagree that it is showing that all OBs are evil.  Two OBs talk throughout the documentary (can't remember their names.  both white guys one with a beard and the other one is Abbie's OB who ends up giving her the csection) and both of them are absolutely portrayed as compassionate and open minded.  I mean I don't think it's surprising that it's biased.  It's a documentary, not a news segment.  They have certain viewpoints and they are obviously try to explain that to their viewers.  

I also really liked that the second documentary gave all the birth stories.  They were everything from emergency c sections to hippy dippy water births.  The message was definitely that the most important thing to a good birth is that the mother is informed and empowered to make her own choices and understand what's going on.

kyraaD

antoto said:

kyraaD said:

lalala2004 said:

I haven't seen it, honestly I was afraid it would be graphic birth that would freak me out more than anything. However, I did watch some parts of the "sequel" More Business of Being Born or something. The interview with Ina May Gaskin is interesting. She doesn't blame OBs, and actually faults insurance companies for trying to control OBs. She implied drugs in labor and excessive ultrasounds may have a link to autism, but she didn't claim it as true, just as something to be researched and considered.

The celebrity birth stories in the second part were interesting as well, and presented as very unbiased. They even said at one point that the important thing is that the baby arrives healthy, no matter how it happens.

they said this in the sequel? cause in the first one (just finished watching it), one of the filmmakers said something along the lines of "most women dont think or care about how baby is born, just as long as baby is born healthy. but they should actually be focused on the experience of the birth & feeling everything, which you can only get from a natural/home birth." they also said that because so many celebrities were getting c-sections, it was encouraging other mothers to get c-sections. so that's weird that they would kind of back-track in the sequel.

Dirty lurker here.  I've watched this movie several times and don't remember at any point saying the only way to get a good experience was a home birth.  Do you remember who was talking or which part it was?  Also, when they were speaking about c-sections and celebs they were only talking about elective c-sections - like with no medical reason.

I definitely think this movie is biased, but I disagree that it is showing that all OBs are evil.  Two OBs talk throughout the documentary (can't remember their names.  both white guys one with a beard and the other one is Abbie's OB who ends up giving her the csection) and both of them are absolutely portrayed as compassionate and open minded.  I mean I don't think it's surprising that it's biased.  It's a documentary, not a news segment.  They have certain viewpoints and they are obviously try to explain that to their viewers.  

I also really liked that the second documentary gave all the birth stories.  They were everything from emergency c sections to hippy dippy water births.  The message was definitely that the most important thing to a good birth is that the mother is informed and empowered to make her own choices and understand what's going on.

------------------------------------QBF---------------------------------------

it was from the 20min mark to the 21:30 min mark. it was when the two filmmakers were on the phone with someone & the one filmmaker was explaining the difference it her two birthing experiences. just how she was saying it, it made me feel like she was saying that the only way you can really fully experience childbirth is through a "natural" home birth.

LIly436

I think I experienced my first childbirth so fully, that I even don't do cervical checks now - I do not care when I will go into labor 

MississippiCatfish

Totally agree. It's refreshing to see someone else feel that way - it usually receives such praise! Preparing for my second unmedicated childbirth over here - my first waterbirth!

surferP528

I watched it a few months ago so my memory is a big foggy, but I didn't find it horrible. Yes, it was biased and obviously in favor of natural home births. But at the same time, it's a documentary by Rikki Lake! Haha. So I wasn't expecting much.

At first while watching, I thought the home birth craze was a little nutty, but by the end it opened my eyes to the fact that there are more birth options out there than just going to the hospital clueless, getting an epidural and suffering through it. It made me feel empowered to try a natural birth (although I'll be doing it at a hospital) and I thought it made birth seem a lot less scary, so I was grateful for that. 

By their very nature, it seems difficult to make a documentary that isn't biased, so it might be best to just watch a bunch and take in the information, but only collecting what seems to resonate with you the best. 

jonesl12

Ugh.... As somebody who works with ob I really want to watch this now however I'm already mad just reading the comments...

PrimRoseMama

PugsandKisses said:

I have a mouth foaming hatred for this 'documentary '. It is so anti medical anything. If you want a home birth, natural birth, water birth, dolphin birth.... I don't care. I hate it because women watch it and then feel like failures if they can not follow what they see 100%. With out medical intervention, both myself and children would not be alive. I am not a failure for needing an indication. I am not weak for needing a C/S. I am not less of a woman for not birthing in a pool chanting with Enya. But this movie made me, and so many others feel that way.

:::sits with @PugsandKisses ::: I am pretty crunchy and have done unmedicated birth. I still like having my births in a birthing center that is a stone's throw from a hospital with an OR just in case. I'm in the camp of "whatever makes you comfortable" but there is no need to take a dump on the other methods just because you (general you) feel that it doesn't work for you and your temperament.

[Deleted User]

PrimRoseMama said:

PugsandKisses said:

I have a mouth foaming hatred for this 'documentary '. It is so anti medical anything. If you want a home birth, natural birth, water birth, dolphin birth.... I don't care. I hate it because women watch it and then feel like failures if they can not follow what they see 100%. With out medical intervention, both myself and children would not be alive. I am not a failure for needing an indication. I am not weak for needing a C/S. I am not less of a woman for not birthing in a pool chanting with Enya. But this movie made me, and so many others feel that way.

:::sits with @PugsandKisses ::: I am pretty crunchy and have done unmedicated birth. I still like having my births in a birthing center that is a stone's throw from a hospital with an OR just in case. I'm in the camp of "whatever makes you comfortable" but there is no need to take a dump on the other methods just because you (general you) feel that it doesn't work for you and your temperament.

I agree with you wholeheartedly that women should not be shamed for their birth.  But I do disagree that this was what this documentary was trying to do.  The birth it most prominently features is Abbie's which was a failed planned natural birth that turned into an emergency c-section.  When they talk about it they talk about how that's what needed to happen and how great it was that they had the OB there to help them.

I really believe the takeaway from this is more that you should be educated and aware of ALL of your options so you can make an informed decision.  Our society really doesn't let us know anything about birth centers or home births.  This documentary attempted to fill that gap.

mamacastro

Damn I really want to watch it now out of curiosity but don't have Netflix is there anywhere else to see it?

pettycrocker

I remember watching this when I was pregnant with DD1. I liked it. Had a C-Section with DD1, having a RCS with DD2. Doesn't affect my opinion of the documentary. It's meant to focus on homebirth. I appreciated the perscpective. 

PugsandKisses

mamacastro said:

Damn I really want to watch it now out of curiosity but don't have Netflix is there anywhere else to see it?

You tube has it. Or at least they did.

pumpkinhead4

Yes! So biased and made any woman who has had a csection feel like crap. One thing we need to remember is we have come a long way in our infant and mortality rates and that's due to trained OBs and not midwives delivering our babies at home. Sorry but it's a fact. OBs are not out to harm, it's in their oath. They do what's best for baby and Mom even if it means surgery. Think about it and put yourself in their position. Being a doctor is so risky these days. In the end we survive and have babies and that's what matters. Also, the day a doctor saves your life, you will never forget it or them.

cardie

I watched this with my OB's recommendation because I already decided long ago that I wanted to do a water birth. Yes, this document is extremely biases. As a FTM, watching this just gave me validation of my water birth. The only thing I really took away from this documentary was that I have a say in my birth and that alot of the medications they give you COULD make you get a CS. I personally decided all on my own to do it natural because to me I felt our body was made for giving birth. 

pumpkinhead4

Our body is made for giving birth but not all births come without complications. This is when medical intervention is necessary and we are lucky to have it.

LIly436

Our body changed over the years of evolution, that is why we have problems with wisdom teeth, varicose veins, back pain and eyesight. I don't have time to look for statistics, but I  assume there would have been a lot of deaths of moms and babies if no interventions were ever made and everyone just said, that our bodies are made to give birth. Every medication and procedure has its risks and benefits. Doctors are responsible to figure out what is going to work for you and inform you about it

kqualls5

Sorry but I'd trust an OB in a hospital over a midwife any day. Sure, a midwife might be more personable and build a closer relationship than some obstetricians, but an OB is more qualified to get your baby here safely.

egraves4

I really don't remember many of the details of this documentary, but what I do remember is that I decided to watch it back in probably June or July when I was like 8 weeks along?  This was really the beginning of my research in how I wanted to give birth.  And honestly I remember it kinda freaking me out because I had already decided to go in the direction of having an OB and I felt like I had made a mistake (or that the only option I had in the hospital was induction leading to an epidural leading to a c-section).  But that's just my two cents.  Going into my last month of pregnancy, I now have a midwife I am more than happy with and hopefully will be able to give birth naturally... 

PugsandKisses

kqualls5 said:

Sorry but I'd trust an OB in a hospital over a midwife any day. Sure, a midwife might be more personable and build a closer relationship than some obstetricians, but an OB is more qualified to get your baby here safely.

See, I disagree with this. I assume you mean a CNM. Those are nurses that worked years in Labor/Delivery prior to going to an intensive 2 to 2.5 year school to become competent health care providers in women's health. Every CNM that I know was very bright, and we're gifted and humble enough to know when it needed more then her scope of practice could safety give. In my state (who is not very APRN friendly), a CNM could do almost the same procedures as a OB. The difference is that the OB had to head the OR and the CNM would be 1st assistant.

arghhhhhhhhh

This argument is tired. It always gets stirred up, now it's over a documentary.

Women who give birth in the hospital or have c-sections are not less of women for doing so. And women who have unmedicated or home births are not selfish hippies putting their babies at risk.

Both models of birth have a purpose. As do OBs and Midwives. Stop saying all OBs are this way, or all Midwifes this way. Most of us are probably biased towards the model of care we had because birth (any birth) is a deeply personal and intense experience, so the involvement of our OB or Midwife has a special place in our hearts (for most of us) and we maybe get overly offended by slights toward their profession.

To think any of us know what is best for anyone else's particular situation is insane.

LIly436

Please don't put OB's and midwife's training and education level close to each other. There at least 6 years difference and OB's is much much harder

dramaphile

LIly436 said:

Please don't put OB's and midwife's training and education level close to each other. There at least 6 years difference and OB's is much much harder

OBs are able to handle high risk situations and perform surgery, so they require more training. This does not make a CNM any less qualified to assist a mother with an uncomplicated pregnancy in giving birth. Any CNM worth her salt can also assess when additional medical intervention is needed, and will transfer their patient to a hospital in that case. OBs have their place in birth, and so do midwives.

LIly436

Those professions are incomparable, that is why I am asking you to not put them close. The only similarity is the place( vagina) where they work. No one is questioning the importance of MW, but you can compare qualifications of someone receiving 2 years specific training and bachelors in whatever and an OB with their 12 years of medicine and health related subjects, requiring very competitive grades, not even counting the high school. Did you know, that you cant become a doctor with community college education? In order to even complete premedical studies, future OBs have to study a lot and very well in high school too, which MW don't even have to do at all. So, please don't compare them
MWs are more personable and can say all cutesy stuff, but I also would prefer someone who can actually distinguish between a heart attack and an anxiety