Baby-judging fear

Pascal86

This weekend I was with some friends who got on the topic of a mutual friend who had the "UGLIEST BABY EVER," and they spent a good ten minutes scrolling through their facebook and laughing at the baby. These are friends that are normally so sensitive to every -ism in the book, and generally super respectful people, so I was shocked. They kept claiming that the mother was just opening herself up to ridicule for posting the pictures so it was okay to make fun of the baby, and adding that it wouldn't be funny if the baby had a birth defect. I asked what the difference between having a birth defect and being ugly was (in terms of deserving respect), and they couldn't answer... but continued to be totally cool with laughing at this baby.

Before I was pregnant, I might have let this slide more, although I've never been a fan of laughing at babies for being ugly. But now that I am pregnant, it just made me feel horrified at my friends' attitudes and terrified for all the shit my child will get for not looking right, not acting right, whatever else, etc. It pissed me off but also felt cool to have my first "mama bear" instinct. I was just 9 weeks at that point and my friends still don't know I'm pregnant. They probably wouldn't have had that conversation if they knew I was, but it felt pretty revealing to hear how they talk about other people's babies.

Anyone else have an experience like this, or dealt with this kind of attitude? These are some of my favorite people in the world, but it made me have this weird guarded feeling around them that I can't quite shake. I'm not big on caring what other people think, but I do hope for kindness, and this whole thing made me pretty sad.

TXmamatobe

Wtf? Sometimes people show their true colors. I had a very, very good friend who once made a habit of treating waiters and waitresses like complete trash. It was so out of character for her but I never really got over it. I feel like I looked at her differently from that point forward.

Do these people have their own children?? I would never laugh at a child for anything appearance related. Unbelievable.

Jesse835235

I will never, ever call a baby ugly.  I don't want it to come back and bite me, plus that's just wrong to say that about anyone, let alone a baby.  Great idea to draw the comparison though.  You would think that would make them take a step back..

Merciel

The only thing I can think of is that maybe they were like "well, a baby doesn't know the difference and this is a temporary phase." It is true that newborn babies look like weird little aliens and that they don't look that way for very long, so maybe they figured it was harmless because the kid would look completely different by the time it was old enough to understand?

But I'm just guessing, maybe it was more meanspirited than that. I don't know, I wasn't there.

I do agree that's a pretty cruel thing to do to a friend, though. I cannot imagine saying that about any of my friends' kids (and not just because they're all adorable, although they are).

Bluejay3030

Ugh, I hate hearing stuff like this!! It makes me cringe to think that my kids will grow up in a world where they will be judged by how they look and mocked if they don't fit a certain mold.

It's one thing to feel like babies aren't "cute" in general, but to go out of your way to make fun of somebody's kid is just sad.

Since the moment's passed, I'm not sure if I'd say anything to them, but it definitely would change my view of them pretty much permanently.

LadySamLady

This is a good reminder to instill the right kind of values in my LO. So much of our culture measures our worth by our appearance. Particularly for women, we are taught to view our bodies as window dressing more then as the amazing vessels they are. I've struggled a lot with body image/disordered eating in my life and am working hard to turn my pregnancy into an opportunity to re-wire this way of thinking. For the first time, I am amazed at what my body is capable of instead of judging it for the way that it looks and it is so freeing! I still get caught up in old thought patterns, worrying about weight gain etc. but I'm working hard to leave them in the past. I don't want my children to grow up believing that their currency is in their appearance, I want them to value you who they are and what they can do - and so I will work very hard to model that kind of thinking for them.

A bit of a tangent but felt relevant!

mhc13

People suck and karma is a bitch.

Unicorn522

I have seen babies before that I did not think were cute but never would I say it out loud let alone make fun of them. That is just plain awful and rude! What would you say if someone found out that you thought their child was ugly?!

Pascal86

Thanks everyone, I think my friends are good people but just aren't really thinking about what they're doing very hard. And I am by no means blameless in the judging/being an asshole category sometimes, it just gave me icky feelings to see them go on about it so mercilessly and for so long. Just needed to hear some people join in with my WTF feeling since I didn't feel like I could really explain how I was feeling then. I might break it down a little to them once they know I'm pregnant though.

Pascal86

@TXmamatobe and no, they are so far from having kids themselves, but both about 30 and have worked extensively with children! Does not make any sense.

goatgirlnyc

That's disgusting behavior.

We just had a friend visit from out of town and to make a long story short, he talked about how weird and strange our other friend's 5 year old girl was and how his 5 year old girl was much cooler and "normal".

Basically, I politely told him that I thought it was in bad taste to talk about other people's children that way.

I absolutely cannot stomach when adults gossip and talk negatively about babies and children. Especially for being different.

Dasha420

That's really messed up and I'm betting those women weren't the best looking of the bunch.

Babies aren't ever ugly- their innocence saves them. Those women are. I would have shown them a mirror and told them to take a long look into the depths of their ugly souls.

It's people like that who are insecure and lack real confidence as well as a heart apparently. You mentioned they worked with children- they've desensitized themselves and are probably burnt out. However, that's not an excuse. Grown people acting foolish.

Edited for typos.

Scottwswife

It's one thing to look back at your own baby pictures and laugh at them, but you don't... You just don't make fun of someone else's looks. At any age. I just hope there was some alcohol involved and regret the next day. At least that makes more sense to me.

camillaandcarson

I remember a Seinfeld episode about this...

LemmyRN

@Pascal86
If they really carried on like this for about 10 minutes, even after you challenged their reasoning, then it's very likely they've had this "baby roast" more than once; this is just the first time they've done it with you.
Their behavior is disgusting and it should really have you reconsidered whether it is worth being their friend, if they were able to be so cruel to a mutual friend.
Don't let this slide next time. Let them know they are fucked up and that you are disappointed that grown ass women are being so vicious TO A BABY AND YOUR FRIEND.

Pascal86

@LemmyRN and @Dasha420 - It was really disgusting behavior - but my point was to highlight how scary it is that normally good, caring people can have ugly moments, and it sucks when that can be in the form of negativity about your kids. Even though I originally posted this to complain, your comments are feeling quite harsh as well, and are making me feel very defensive about my friends. Once they know I'm pregnant, I plan to let them know how that felt for me and how that's not okay, but to drop amazing friends that have been through everything with me for the past 10-15 years because of one bad moment would be ugly and absurd on my end. I also don't see how guessing that they're unattractive is at all related to this.

Of course I just posted one moment of their behavior to highlight how bad it made me feel, so again, thank you for making my feelings of shock and sadness feel validated in that regard! Just cautioning against extrapolating the entire goodness/badness of a person based on one negative anecdote.

LemmyRN

Pascal86 said:

Just cautioning against extrapolating the entire goodness/badness of a person based on one negative anecdote.

@Pascal86
A more careful read would show I was commenting on the incident, not calling them evil. I stand by my prior post and definitely think next time it happens you should speak up. Yes the way I phrased it is not the nicest, but my message of their being VERY wrong for that vicious behavior to a supposed friend and baby (or anyone really) should be brought to their attention.

Dasha420

@Pascal86
Darling what did you expect when you posted something a community board called the bump?
You mentioned these women took the time to laugh at a mutual friends baby deeming the child as the ugliest child ever. Now even if they would do that to a stranger- it is still disturbing, but this was a friends child.
I'm wondering- you stated it made you feel defensive about your friends (some of our comments) but at that moment did you feel defensive about the mutual friend and her baby they were judging? Why speak up against a group of strangers online instead to friends who are adults? Maybe they are the best people in the world- but in that particular moment you got a glimpse of something not so great in them and decided to share that moment with us.

Guessing about their level of attractiveness- you know that saying "it takes one to know one"? They are commenting on a child's looks so I pointed that out.

I also mentioned in my post that they may be desensitized so that could be a factor in their behavior but I stand by what I said.

Adults should be mature enough and discern the difference between judging other adults and innocent children/babies. I will never understand how people can judge a child's looks.

A tip- I've learned that not everyone will give you the answer you are looking for. Some answers may rub you the wrong way but here, especially here, it's best to let things roll off your shoulder - specifically because you posted something that can be controversial depending on everyone's personal views.

Pascal86

@LemmyRN and @Dasha420 - I think the frustration on my end was that I really wanted to explain why it hurt me so much to them, but I still haven't told anyone I was pregnant yet (at this point I think I was at 8 weeks), so I felt kind of like I couldn't fully express myself there, which is why I came over here to vent.

And I know how forums work, don't worry - not trying to control people's responses, just responding to what you said with how I feel, which I think is pretty fair.

Another point I wanted to make is how weird it is from my end to see the shift in myself. I mean, I didn't use to laugh at ugly babies like that, but in all honesty, it probably wouldn't have bothered me that much before. Of my two friends that I'm talking about, one has a condition where she can't have sex, so having kids is waaaay off her radar, and the other is a gay man who again, has no plans to have kids. So before I was pregnant, this probably would have just been a non-event for me, but as soon as I was in the mindset of having kids, and then pregnant, it became a huge deal. So I guess I just see myself kind of on both sides of the issue, but can't believe how quickly I jumped over to the super-defensive side. I like to think it's an improvement

1mae2016

There's several teachers within the daycare that I work at while I finish college that have made it almost a daily ritual to talk about which children make their "cute list". They don't literally call it their " cute list " but that's the way they make it seem. It's like they pick the children apart and choose what they do or do not like about them or compare them to some animal or object the child looks like. It's so aggravating and I've gotten to where I can't even hold my tongue any more. It's mostly the younger afternoon workers who have no children of their own so maybe they do not understand the cruedness of their comments but it's honestly infuriating. One teacher went as far to say one of the children looked like she had Down Syndrome, forgetting that my little sister has it, and I just watched her put her foot in her mouth as she realized that I found nothing funny about her comment.

Dasha420

@1mae2016
That's horrible. People seem to be getting meaner and meaner.
Did anyone ever wonder what happens to childhood bullies? They grow up to be adult bullies. @-)

TennisCourt

Omgosh that is horrible!!! True colors for sure are showing. Not sure they are actual friends of the mom. I adore all of my friends children and instantly feel a connection when I see them. I would never even think for a second that the babies were ugly. I have a couple friends kids who just keep getting cuter as they get older and look completely different than when they were babies. I still wouldn't ever even think that any baby is ugly...especially a friends, 

As a PP said about a friend who treated servers like crap, I had a very similar situation and it has definitely made me look at them differently. If I ever had a friend make fun of a baby, I don't know what I would do but I would certainly reevaluate how important their friendship was to me.