Current Events

SamanthaAshley820

So right now in the U.S. there is a huge thing going on about the Confederate flag & if it should be flown or not.

I truly like current events and the news. I also love debating (not fighting), and debate was one of my favorite subjects in school.

We are all grown here and I think it would be fun to have a place to talk and have MATURE debates about things going on in the news or around you. No reporting because someone's opinion is different than yours, this is adult time.

So let's see if we can get this going.

Ceridwen77

RE: taking down the confederate flag from government buildings - it's about damn time.

SamanthaAshley820

I am against taking the Confederate flag down; it does not stand for slavery (although I can see why many people would believe that it does) it stands for how the southern states wanted to govern themselves and not be ruled by one federal government.
That is also what the civil war was about. It was not over we want slaves and you don't. It was you're trying to make everyone follow one law and we don't like that. We don't want things to go back to how they were over in England.

It's also upsetting that all of this started over a shooting. I feel it's like if I wore a McDonalds uniform and killed a bunch of fat people everyone saying that McDonalds hates fat people and they support me killing fat people because they are fat.

LSRoo

The show Catfish on MTV is incredible. Just sayin.

VexyMommy

I can not have a polite discussion on this topic.  I will say that the confederate flag is the flag of slavery, degradation and the belief that black people represent an inferior race.  These were the ideals expressed in each one of the letters of succession.  This flag is the equivalent of the Nazi flag.

State's rights were not mentioned by southern politicians until they reached out for allies overseas and were forced to find reasons other than slavery to bolster their cause. 

To compare this to fat shaming is absolutely abominable and shows ignorance. 

Barker2+1

I don't really think the taking down if the confederate flag is really about the silly flag itself. I think that it is politically motivated by a whack job whose opinion and point of view are not in line with the majority of America. Just because you have one doesn't mean you are a racist. We have to stop judging everyone by one persons actions. It has truly gotten ridiculous. Also why is it ok for the President to go on TV and say the N word but it's not ok for anyone else to say it. Double standard much?

belladonna115

My first reaction is take it down.  I associate it with rednecks where I live because that is all that display it.  However, before I fully commit to the take it down, I promised myself that I would do some research on it first.  So I think I shall withhold an opinion for the time being.  But I'm really interested to see what all you ladies say. 

LSRoo

belladonna115 said:

My first reaction is take it down.  I associate it with rednecks where I live because that is all that display it.  However, before I fully commit to the take it down, I promised myself that I would do some research on it first.  So I think I shall withhold an opinion for the time being.  But I'm really interested to see what all you ladies say. 

You refer to people as rednecks??

SamanthaAshley820

@VexyMommy I was using the McDonalds reference to make an example of how this came about. The flag wasn't such an issue until that young man opened fire at that church.
I feel the biggest issue here should be that there are still people being raised to hate others. Period. Not even over race, sexuality, size, ect. But there is still a massive amount of hatred being taught. Personally I feel like that is the biggest issue; not a flag.
Blaming the flag instead of the man, or the underlying issues is not going to solve anything. IMO.

hacharles

read this article https://www.cnn.com/2015/06/24/us/confederate-flag-myths-facts/index.html
@samanthaashley820

I live in a southern state and proudly stand with people doing the right thing and taking it down. Sure it is historical...but so is a swastika flag...

Regardless of it's history, it is offensive and to quote my state's governor (a conservative republican governor) it is a "distraction".

This didn't start over a shooting in my opinion.

LSRoo

hacharles said:

read this article https://www.cnn.com/2015/06/24/us/confederate-flag-myths-facts/index.html
@samanthaashley820

I live in a southern state and proudly stand with people doing the right thing and taking it down. Sure it is historical...but so is a swastika flag...

Regardless of it's history, it is offensive and to quote my state's governor (a conservative republican governor) it is a "distraction".

This didn't start over a shooting in my opinion.

I couldn't agree with you more! As long as that flag is hanging you are saying it is ok to display something that MANY people view as a symbol for racism and hatred.

HungryRunner76

OP, this post (esp your comparison to an issue like fast food) isn't going to go well.
I'm from the Carolinas so this hits home for me. It's something I would see almost every day.
However, although the flag does not represent slavery to me, it is a symbol of racism to many others and is very hurtful especially in the light of the Charleston shootings.
For me, that's enough to want it down from display. There's no redeeming value for it to fly at this point.

Elyse1384

I am thrilled it is finally coming down.  Regardless of debate behind its meaning (I personally don't feel it represents anything positive and only acts to divide), I believe we are one country and should fly one flag.  I don't agree with a lot of the political decisions made in this country, but at the end of the day I will proudly support my country and fly OUR flag regardless of how frustrating government can be at times. 

rox7777

As someone that was born and raised in SC, I say the whole flag incident is yet another cry for attention. Our state has been the center of controversy for months. People are hailing SC for its ability to protest peacefully and be so respectful and I can promise you that's not the case. Just a few short months ago Walter Scott was our big news and people were comparing SC to Baltimore and Fergeuson because people were acting downright stupid. Now we're a classy state and those two cities should be looking to us for an example. There are people downtown vandalizing state historic sites and burning American flags right now, but hey, they have their right because we been flying the same flag for decades in the same exact place. Attention seekers, as usual. It's yet another ploy for politicians and the fact that Obama will be here tomorrow to speak at the funeral and cover this in his speech is even worse. It's not classy and it's not something to be proud of. People died and we've turned it into a damn show.

Ceridwen77

Barker2+1 said:

I don't really think the taking down if the confederate flag is really about the silly flag itself. I think that it is politically motivated by a whack job whose opinion and point of view are not in line with the majority of America. Just because you have one doesn't mean you are a racist. We have to stop judging everyone by one persons actions. It has truly gotten ridiculous. Also why is it ok for the President to go on TV and say the N word but it's not ok for anyone else to say it. Double standard much?

belladonna115

LSRoo said:

My first reaction is take it down.  I associate it with rednecks where I live because that is all that display it.  However, before I fully commit to the take it down, I promised myself that I would do some research on it first.  So I think I shall withhold an opinion for the time being.  But I'm really interested to see what all you ladies say. 

You refer to people as rednecks??

LSRoo said:

My first reaction is take it down.  I associate it with rednecks where I live because that is all that display it.  However, before I fully commit to the take it down, I promised myself that I would do some research on it first.  So I think I shall withhold an opinion for the time being.  But I'm really interested to see what all you ladies say. 

You refer to people as rednecks??

Well, to better explain..I live in the country and lets just say the people in my neighborhood do qualify as rednecks. and I'm probably being nice by saying that.

rox7777

Where I'm from being a redneck is something to be proud of. Just sayin. My dad would die if someone called him a southern gentleman, he is 100% redneck and he knows it. I, however, would cut somebody if they called me a redneck or anything close to it. But I never did fit in around here.

Elyse1384

SamanthaAshley820 said:

@VexyMommy I was using the McDonalds reference to make an example of how this came about. The flag wasn't such an issue until that young man opened fire at that church. I feel the biggest issue here should be that there are still people being raised to hate others. Period. Not even over race, sexuality, size, ect. But there is still a massive amount of hatred being taught. Personally I feel like that is the biggest issue; not a flag. Blaming the flag instead of the man, or the underlying issues is not going to solve anything. IMO.

But I think the problem is that man made the flag to represent a set of ideals that most no longer find acceptable and the flag represents a desire to divide.  Taking it down is a huge first step in helping correct the bigoted attitudes of many.  We still have a ways to go, but I think we're making strides.  

hacharles

I just love that CNN article so much that I need to point out that even Confederate General Robert E Lee was ready to lay down the flag. IT LOST!

It's the battle flag of Robert E. Lee's army unit

While it wasn't the Confederate states' official flag, the battle flag was flown by several Confederate Army units. The most notable among them was Gen. Robert E. Lee's Army of Northern Virginia.

And even Lee distanced himself from divisive symbols of a Civil War that his side lost.

"I think it wiser moreover not to keep open the sores of war," he wrote in a letter, declining an invitation by the Gettysburg Battlefield Memorial Association.

There were no flags flown at his funeral, Confederate or otherwise.

lakesideknitter

Nooooooo!!! Comment on the food thread!

ETA - just kidding.. Kind of.

rox7777

Elyse1384 said:

SamanthaAshley820 said:

@VexyMommy I was using the McDonalds reference to make an example of how this came about. The flag wasn't such an issue until that young man opened fire at that church.
I feel the biggest issue here should be that there are still people being raised to hate others. Period. Not even over race, sexuality, size, ect. But there is still a massive amount of hatred being taught. Personally I feel like that is the biggest issue; not a flag.
Blaming the flag instead of the man, or the underlying issues is not going to solve anything. IMO.

But I think the problem is that man made the flag to represent a set of ideals that most no longer find acceptable and the flag represents a desire to divide.  Taking it down is a huge first step in helping correct the bigoted attitudes of many.  We still have a ways to go, but I think we're making strides.  

You can still buy Nazi related things, because it's an important part of history. It nowhere near socially acceptable to flaunt it in public, but collecting it is a different story. I think that's the way the flag needs to go, BUT the fact that people are going about it they way they are and after recent events is disgusting. Vandalizing confederate monuments downtown as a way of protesting is also disgusting. It's a part of history and many people on both sides died for their beliefs. Both sides need to be remembered and respected, whether we agree with them or not.

VexyMommy

SamanthaAshley820 said:

@VexyMommy I was using the McDonalds reference to make an example of how this came about. The flag wasn't such an issue until that young man opened fire at that church. I feel the biggest issue here should be that there are still people being raised to hate others. Period. Not even over race, sexuality, size, ect. But there is still a massive amount of hatred being taught. Personally I feel like that is the biggest issue; not a flag. Blaming the flag instead of the man, or the underlying issues is not going to solve anything. IMO.

This is not a new debate and I'm not sure what bubble you grew up in to assume that it is.  This debate did not start with the death of 9 men and women in a church in Charleston.  One of whom I met and admired greatly.  This debate has been going on since the end of the Civil War and is 150 years old.  The flag was put on the statehouse grounds in SC during the civil rights movement in the 1960's as an F U to the black community.  This is the same time it was incorporated into many state flags.  It has been used since the Civil War as a symbol of racial superiority for white people and utilized to terrorize communities of color.

Of course stripping state houses of their racist symbols will not stop racism, but it is a good start.  There are reasons why Germans do not proudly fly the Nazi flag as a symbol of their heritage.  Does it mean there are not anti-Semites in Germany?  No.  Does it mean that their views are not supported even obliquely by the government.  Yes. 

A bit of my background:  I went to a small private school from 4th grade through 12th grade.  Our mascot was the Rebel and we proudly flew the Confederate flag at football games, emblazoned it on shirts and waved it wildly at pep rallies.  There were 3 black students out of 500.  The N word and other derogatory terms were used frequently.  Before I went to that school, I lived on military bases and had many friends of various races.  My parents were not from the area and I had the opportunity to travel to more liberal parts of the country.  Most of my classmates did not. 

hacharles

rbradshaw77 said:

Where I'm from being a redneck is something to be proud of. Just sayin. My dad would die if someone called him a southern gentleman, he is 100% redneck and he knows it. I, however, would cut somebody if they called me a redneck or anything close to it. But I never did fit in around here.

Ditto. Even my husband would wear "redneck" happily but I do not find it a compliment personally. But to my husband being a "redneck" is playing in the woods, fishing, climbing trees, doing things for yourself, etc. Nothing to do with the confederate flag

belladonna115

rbradshaw77 said:

Where I'm from being a redneck is something to be proud of. Just sayin. My dad would die if someone called him a southern gentleman, he is 100% redneck and he knows it. I, however, would cut somebody if they called me a redneck or anything close to it. But I never did fit in around here.

@rbradshaw77 to me there is a vast difference between gentlemen and redneck. by Redneck---here in my little corner of the world---, they are just not the sort of people that you want to be around. Very bigoted and rude, rude people. Certainly not ones you want your child to grow up like. I've never distinguished between southern gentleman and gentleman because to me..And here again these are JMHO's if you are a gentleman, then you are gentleman, no matter where you come from.  I'm sure that the word has a different connotation where you are and one that is positive.  Unfortunately, in my part of the world-however small it is, it's just not a positive word. 

jasbaby2

Barker2+1 said:

I don't really think the taking down if the confederate flag is really about the silly flag itself. I think that it is politically motivated by a whack job whose opinion and point of view are not in line with the majority of America. Just because you have one doesn't mean you are a racist. We have to stop judging everyone by one persons actions. It has truly gotten ridiculous. Also why is it ok for the President to go on TV and say the N word but it's not ok for anyone else to say it. Double standard much?

No it's about the flag. A flag which has been a problem since long before President Obama was ever involved in government. There is no reason that flag should fly and to suggest it does not stand for hatred and racism is to ignore the reasons for the civil war as well as the way the flag has been misappropriated since.

If you mean President Obama when you refer to the whack job whose opinion isn't in line with the majority of America I'd suggest you need a new source for your information. You may not like the man and may disagree with him but the fact remains that he has been elected by a pretty nice majority twice.

The president used "the "n" word" in a podcast discussion and not on television. Not that it matters. I don't think you'd be saying this if you'd heard the discussion for yourself. You can find it in full online, it's not all that long. Just google Marc Maron podcast Obama and you should be able to find it. I like to inform myself before speaking out about things like that.

scw89

1. I am all for getting rid of the confederate flag and what it stands for or at least what it is a reminder of

2. This thread is NOT going to go down well. Cue the ban hammer.....

Andplusalso...@vexymommy ftw

rox7777

belladonna115 said:

rbradshaw77 said:

Where I'm from being a redneck is something to be proud of. Just sayin. My dad would die if someone called him a southern gentleman, he is 100% redneck and he knows it. I, however, would cut somebody if they called me a redneck or anything close to it. But I never did fit in around here.

@rbradshaw77 to me there is a vast difference between gentlemen and redneck. by Redneck---here in my little corner of the world---, they are just not the sort of people that you want to be around. Very bigoted and rude, rude people. Certainly not ones you want your child to grow up like. I've never distinguished between southern gentleman and gentleman because to me..And here again these are JMHO's if you are a gentleman, then you are gentleman, no matter where you come from.  I'm sure that the word has a different connotation where you are and one that is positive.  Unfortunately, in my part of the world-however small it is, it's just not a positive word. 


In our corner of the world rednecks are your every day country boys. They drive big trucks, shoot things for fun and still manage to say yes ma'am and no ma'am. As someone that is actually in the state of SC I can promise you the media is portraying the way things are actually happening regarding the flags. I have yet to see a story about them burning the American flag on a confederate statue on Monday or spray painting "black lives matter" on a memorial to confedate soldiers. Regardless of what our opinions are, and I promise I'm not a "bigoted redneck", soldiers deserve to be respected and remembered no matter what they died for. Yes, the flag is disrespectful and it's reasons for flying are outdated, BUT people are acting no better than the flag they despise so much when they do those things. That's my only point here. Media doesn't tell you the whole story.

thegingeravenger

I'm not going to comment on exactly where I stand on this because as someone that lives in the south, it would take a while. I will say that despite what the flag may have originally stood for during the civil war, the fact remains that it is now a symbol of racism. The meaning has been changed over time and the flag is no longer what originally was. My father's side of the family flies the flag with pride and it's not because it's a piece of southern history/not because my Vietnam Vetran father thinks the south should be a separate government. It's because he's a racist douchenugget.

For the record: I wear camo, hunt, fish, and go mudding in 4-wheelers/4 wheel drive trucks so I think it's safe to say I have "redneck" tendencies if you must put a label on me.

SamanthaAshley820

I'm sorry. I miss typed. I meant that all of this became SUCH an issue since the shooting. I know this has been an issue since way before. Its just upsetting that and please, don't take this out of context something so small in comparison to the argument of racisn, slavery, ect. Has cause this much of an uproar. I know that most things are changed (the right words are not coming out today) by small events, but they're usually a large, public issue before the changing event happens. This was almost out of left field with how it came up. Like I said, I feel as if the young man's perceptions and beliefs are the issue; not the flag.

And I don't see why this can't go over well? We're all adults and were having a mature conversation...and I didn't post this to be JUST about the flag, but instead about things going on all over.

Falchas

Take it down, it has hurt too many people and calls negative attention to a wonderful state.  What is pissing me off is politicians who are jumping on the flag bandwagon because popular opinion seems to be moving in that direction (I know, what else should I expect).  When Nikki Haley was asked in the immediate aftermath of the shooting if her opinion on gun control had been affected (she has supported among other things, guns being allowed in bars and other public spaces).  She was quick to respond that her focus was on the suspect and the mourning families and we should not be focusing on other issues like guns at this time.  A few short days later she was more than willing to show full support for taking down the flag.  I don't want to this to dissolve into a discussion on gun control, that can become nasty fast, but just wanted to draw attention to what I see as a huge amount of hypocrisy on the part of SC's leaders.  Charleston and Columbia are both cities near and dear to my heart, this is heartbreaking.

Ceridwen77

rbradshaw77 said:

You can still buy Nazi related things, because it's an important part of history. It nowhere near socially acceptable to flaunt it in public, but collecting it is a different story. I think that's the way the flag needs to go, BUT the fact that people are going about it they way they are and after recent events is disgusting. Vandalizing confederate monuments downtown as a way of protesting is also disgusting. It's a part of history and many people on both sides died for their beliefs. Both sides need to be remembered and respected, whether we agree with them or not.

I'm quoting you to piggyback on your post (not debating what you've said).

In Germany it is illegal to display any nazi memorabilia or to even make nazi related jokes. I have spent quite some time in that country and they take very seriously what wrong occurred in their past and will do whatever it takes to prevent it from ever happening again.

All of their museums that we visited (which was a lot) own up to what happened - so while the memorabilia is historically relevant, they aren't flying the flag and using the excuse that its historical. Even in the BMW museum there is a solemn room admitting to the slave labor they employed during WWII.

I've never cried so much on a vacation, but I was so impressed by how the German government owns thier mistakes. We could learn a lot from them.

Barker2+1

@jasbaby2 I would like to clarify the wack job I was referring to was the jerk who shot up the church full of innocent people. I have no issues with President Obama other than the fact that I think that those in positions of authority and respect should refrain from using terminology that folks find offensive. I do however find it offensive that you assumed I was talking about our President In disrespectful way I may not agree with everything he stands for but I do believe that he deserves my respect. Also I live in the north you only see confederate flags in bikers garages. Also the first time I heard there was even a discussion of the confederate flag being removed was after the shooting. That is at least on the news in my area. I think it is a great debate to have but I wish that it was something that had been talked about more nationally before the shooting happened. I have truly learned a lot from reading the responses of those who actually live or lived in a state where this happening. Also just because someone isn't as eloquent as you doesn't make them ignorant or uneducated and you shouldn't assume things like that.

Ceridwen77

SamanthaAshley820 said:

I'm sorry. I miss typed. I meant that all of this became SUCH an issue since the shooting. I know this has been an issue since way before. Its just upsetting that and please, don't take this out of context something so small in comparison to the argument of racisn, slavery, ect. Has cause this much of an uproar. I know that most things are changed (the right words are not coming out today) by small events, but they're usually a large, public issue before the changing event happens. This was almost out of left field with how it came up. Like I said, I feel as if the young man's perceptions and beliefs are the issue; not the flag.

And I don't see why this can't go over well? We're all adults and were having a mature conversation...and I didn't post this to be JUST about the flag, but instead about things going on all over.

Sometimes it takes a major event to spur a change. Why is that so shocking to you? I disagree that this was "out of left field".

Barker2+1

Also I did watch it in full and found what he said very enlightening but I still think he could have done without using that particular word

SamanthaAshley820

Ceridwen77 said:

SamanthaAshley820 said:

I'm sorry. I miss typed. I meant that all of this became SUCH an issue since the shooting. I know this has been an issue since way before. Its just upsetting that and please, don't take this out of context something so small in comparison to the argument of racisn, slavery, ect. Has cause this much of an uproar. I know that most things are changed (the right words are not coming out today) by small events, but they're usually a large, public issue before the changing event happens. This was almost out of left field with how it came up. Like I said, I feel as if the young man's perceptions and beliefs are the issue; not the flag.

And I don't see why this can't go over well? We're all adults and were having a mature conversation...and I didn't post this to be JUST about the flag, but instead about things going on all over.

Sometimes it takes a major event to spur a change. Why is that so shocking to you? I disagree that this was "out of left field".

Because why is it NOW such a huge issue? It's not shocking, just upsetting. I feel like if it was brought up in a different way I would probably be more for it..but I don't feel like removing the flag is being done for the right reasons. The man took a photo with the flag...what if he had shot a bunch of rich white people? Would the flag still be such a center piece to this issue? I feel like this is just a way for some politicians to possibly save face, or try to keep distracting us from the legit race war that is starting in our country.

Take the flag down because that's what is right, not because of some douche faced idiot who decided to go shoot some people...
Start this idea over Sunday brunch, not over someone's loved ones casket.

Ceridwen77

SamanthaAshley820 said:

Ceridwen77 said:

SamanthaAshley820 said:

I'm sorry. I miss typed. I meant that all of this became SUCH an issue since the shooting. I know this has been an issue since way before. Its just upsetting that and please, don't take this out of context something so small in comparison to the argument of racisn, slavery, ect. Has cause this much of an uproar. I know that most things are changed (the right words are not coming out today) by small events, but they're usually a large, public issue before the changing event happens. This was almost out of left field with how it came up. Like I said, I feel as if the young man's perceptions and beliefs are the issue; not the flag.

And I don't see why this can't go over well? We're all adults and were having a mature conversation...and I didn't post this to be JUST about the flag, but instead about things going on all over.

Sometimes it takes a major event to spur a change. Why is that so shocking to you? I disagree that this was "out of left field".

Because why is it NOW such a huge issue? It's not shocking, just upsetting. I feel like if it was brought up in a different way I would probably be more for it..but I don't feel like removing the flag is being done for the right reasons. The man took a photo with the flag...what if he had shot a bunch of rich white people? Would the flag still be such a center piece to this issue? I feel like this is just a way for some politicians to possibly save face, or try to keep distracting us from the legit race war that is starting in our country.

Take the flag down because that's what is right, not because of some douche faced idiot who decided to go shoot some people...
Start this idea over Sunday brunch, not over someone's loved ones casket.

You're still not grasping the simple concept that sometimes it takes a major event to spur change. You're so unnecessarily stuck on the catalyst for the change (the shooting) vs. the result (a symbol of racism being removed from government buildings).

VexyMommy

SamanthaAshley820 said:

I'm sorry. I miss typed. I meant that all of this became SUCH an issue since the shooting. I know this has been an issue since way before. Its just upsetting that and please, don't take this out of context something so small in comparison to the argument of racisn, slavery, ect. Has cause this much of an uproar. I know that most things are changed (the right words are not coming out today) by small events, but they're usually a large, public issue before the changing event happens. This was almost out of left field with how it came up. Like I said, I feel as if the young man's perceptions and beliefs are the issue; not the flag. And I don't see why this can't go over well? We're all adults and were having a mature conversation...and I didn't post this to be JUST about the flag, but instead about things going on all over.

I suspect if you had been a victim of racism and a racist society your entire life this would not be out of left field.  I think with the increased public focus on state sponsored racism such as the police shootings of people of color, the disproportionate impact of stop and frisk policies on minority communities, etc this is a very natural extension of that argument.  The government should not sponsor terrorism and that is what this flag has been used to represent on many, many occasions.  Terrorism of communities of color often with the explicit or tacit approval of government especially in the South. 

thegingeravenger

SamanthaAshley820 said:

Ceridwen77 said:

SamanthaAshley820 said:

I'm sorry. I miss typed. I meant that all of this became SUCH an issue since the shooting. I know this has been an issue since way before. Its just upsetting that and please, don't take this out of context something so small in comparison to the argument of racisn, slavery, ect. Has cause this much of an uproar. I know that most things are changed (the right words are not coming out today) by small events, but they're usually a large, public issue before the changing event happens. This was almost out of left field with how it came up. Like I said, I feel as if the young man's perceptions and beliefs are the issue; not the flag.

And I don't see why this can't go over well? We're all adults and were having a mature conversation...and I didn't post this to be JUST about the flag, but instead about things going on all over.

Sometimes it takes a major event to spur a change. Why is that so shocking to you? I disagree that this was "out of left field".

Because why is it NOW such a huge issue? It's not shocking, just upsetting. I feel like if it was brought up in a different way I would probably be more for it..but I don't feel like removing the flag is being done for the right reasons. The man took a photo with the flag...what if he had shot a bunch of rich white people? Would the flag still be such a center piece to this issue? I feel like this is just a way for some politicians to possibly save face, or try to keep distracting us from the legit race war that is starting in our country.

Take the flag down because that's what is right, not because of some douche faced idiot who decided to go shoot some people...
Start this idea over Sunday brunch, not over someone's loved ones casket.

It's been a huge issue for a very long time in the southern states that it directly impacts. It's huge nationwide now since there was a huge event that made everyone else (read:national level media) pay attention.

Every major change needs a catalyst or two.

pink*sheep

I will say this. Whether or not the flag is removed honestly makes no difference to me in the grand scheme. I understand the history behind the civil war, and everyone wants to hang their hat on the slavery aspect, when it was more than that. And whether you realize it or not, or even want to believe it, there is and always has been a skew to the historical significance of certain events as relayed in textbooks. What I'd like to know is, when is enough enough. Why is it ok to ban something offensive to one side, but then degrade those who find something else offensive. Not everyone is going to be pleased with everything ever! If you think that taking a flag down is going help in diminishing racism, I would beg to differ. Removing "symbols" does not teach tolerance. People teach tolerance. A symbol interpreted by you one way and interpreted by someone else in another is only clarified by that person's explanation. If you want to stop racism then stop identifying people by their color. If we are all equal then why do i have to hear on the news constantly how this white person did that to this black person or vice versa. Why do I have to tell you what race I am when I apply for a loan or for school? Slavery is not a white and black issue, it's a people issue. Past history can not be changed, that's why it's past. But people have to want to change to affect the future. That doesn't happen though. Stop identifying people's struggle in terms of color, but will that happen? No, then what is there to fall back on when a person doesn't succeed or fulfill their human potential. Stop perpetuating the double standard if you're for human equality. That should be the issue.

VexyMommy

Ceridwen77 said:

I'm quoting you to piggyback on your post (not debating what you've said). In Germany it is illegal to display any nazi memorabilia or to even make nazi related jokes. I have spent quite some time in that country and they take very seriously what wrong occurred in their past and will do whatever it takes to prevent it from ever happening again. All of their museums that we visited (which was a lot) own up to what happened - so while the memorabilia is historically relevant, they aren't flying the flag and using the excuse that its historical. Even in the BMW museum there is a solemn room admitting to the slave labor they employed during WWII. I've never cried so much on a vacation, but I was so impressed by how the German government owns thier mistakes. We could learn a lot from them.

I agree completely.  There are too many people who refuse to own up to the horrors of slavery.  Someone argued with me the other day about the benevolent nature of some slave owners and how it was the "bad slave owners" that made it seem so awful. 

parisiennemom

The flag needs to be taken down.

It was def a symbol of slavery and does nothing but add fuel to a steady fire that is going on in the U.S.

The confederate flag debate did not come into mainstream news because of the shooting but because this flag wasn't lowered to half staff- the only one not to be- this was found as a direct insult due to what the confederate flag widely represents.