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2nd Trimester
mkeip
member
Found out the Gender!!!
mkeip
member
well we finally found out that we will be welcoming our baby BOY Liam Mitchell in September! I was really wanting a boy for the first baby. Super excited. Anyone find out what they are having this week?!
Re: Found out the Gender!!!
Also, just an internet safety tip, you may want to remove your child's full name from your post. There are a lot of weirdos out there and anyone can read these forums. ETA: Just realized your last name is also in your username. You can ask an admin to change that for you.
DS2: BFP 02/09/13 | EDD 10/26/13 | said goodbye 06/02/13
ETA What's scary about the difference between gender and sex?
I'm sure it's a lot easier to post a gif and make the op feel like crap than it is to think critically.
Even if there was a citation how many trans people do you think actually provide honest information in these statistics? Being transgendered is still not widely accepted especially if not in countries that are more liberal.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-we-dont-know-the-size-of-the-transgender-population/
OP, congrats on finding out the sex <:-P
My sex is female, but my choices in clothes, activities, friends or whatever are typical of my persona, not an assigned gender role. In so many situations in life I have been judged based on society's assumption about me according to a stereotypical gender.
I think we can give our children something better. And that starts with separating the physical sex from gender roles.
DS2: BFP 02/09/13 | EDD 10/26/13 | said goodbye 06/02/13
For all of you who love to give people a hard time, let me ask.... After you discovered the sex of your baby did you go out and get gender neutral clothes and nursery items for your little one?
This whole becoming a parent has been as exciting as it has been stressful. I don't think we need to add this whole gender identity business to it all's
We found out we're having a bit too!!! We are super excited about our little guy. I've gone out and started getting all sorts of boy stuff. My husband and I are going to assume our baby boy is masculine. If he shows any signs that he is not then we will change course.
Also, this might be where some of the confusion is coming from..
(got this from Webster's)
gen·der
\ˈjen-dər\
noun
: the state of being male or female
grammar : one of the categories (masculine, feminine, and neuter)
Just because a group is in the minority doesn't at all mean that the issues they face aren't valid. And just because you specifically may understand the implication, that doesn't mean that everyone reading this will know and may end up taking it literally. It's always better to spread knowledge instead of fostering ignorance.
When someone posts here that they are having a boy or a girl people say 'congratulations on your x!' They do not say, 'you cannot know for sure if it is a boy or a girl or if it will be confused and maybe lie somewhere in between because gender identity issues can arise.' But everyone DOES jump on people when they say gender instead of sex. I am very confused as to why this is because I don't see the distinction.
This is because gender identity issues are extremely complex and rarely fall on a black and white spectrum. For the vast majority of women, the result they get from their doctor while pregnant will be reflected in both the gentalia and the personality of the child they raise (with I would hope obvious notes that girls can like monster trucks and boys can like barbies and still feel like the girls and boys they identify as). And for a significant amount of transgendered people this distinction falls a bit flat as well I imgaine because they DO feel like the opposite gender and frequently take surgical steps to ensure their 'sex' (at least sexual organs since chromosomes cannot be altered) does match up with their self identified gender.
I don't know what you read into any of my posts that implied that I felt that the trans population's issues and feelings are not valid. I just do not understand how ensuring pregnant women don't slip up on a linguistic techincality is really advocating for trans awareness. Ensuring parents know that this is something their child can face and that it is a real thing that they should embrace and support is critical. But for the baby years, there's really no way to know, so parents proceed the only way they know how. I don't think parents should feel preemptively like they are prejudiced because they work with the information they have at hand until different information presents itself. Generally opposed to all versions of 'mommy shaming' which, personally, is how I read the constant correction of terms that were said innocently. I think its a way to say 'you're not as accepting of a mom as I am, better shape up!'
DS2: BFP 02/09/13 | EDD 10/26/13 | said goodbye 06/02/13
Gender DOES matter to many people. Just because it has no bearing in your life doesn't mean it's not important. That's like someone who has never experienced racism to tell someone who has that their experiences don't matter because it doesn't happen to everyone so no need to concern yourself over it. This isn't an abstract idea. It's not hard to understand.
And this was not done because of being PC to transgendered people (although I am, and if DS is transgendered. Awesome. We'll support him). This was done because I don't believe in gender stereotypes. "Boy" toys can reach girls about mechanics (among other things) and "girl toys" can reach boys empathy. I want him to find what he likes and not be held back. He could be the most stereotypical boy in the world - as long as he has had the opportunity to explore what he likes and identifies with.
I guess it's because I don't like being stereotyped because I am female (or anything else), so I don't want my son to have that as well.
I am happy for you that you think the world is not as scary as people think, but I also hope for your safety as well as the safety of your unborn child that you come out of your bubble and see reality. Watch the news recently? Did you miss the story about the woman in Colorado who responded to a Craigslist add for baby stuff and had her baby cut out of her? I am 32, by the time I was 16 I knew 3 people who were kidnapped - 1 of the 3 survived, the other 2 were murdered, and I grew up in a nice area.
I personally think gender is essentially interchangeable with sex for the first few years because the sex governs how most people make initial decisions (like names and clothes) and so it's not worth making someone feel bad over, and I've seen people be made to feel bad about this mistake over and over here. And it's called a gender identity issue for a reason. The problem presents when a person feels that their gender does not match their sex. Separating the terms with such a strict line diminishes the Transgender person by supposing that those differences don't matter to them when they are in fact generally the core issue at hand.
As you have said in other threads, if you post your opinion in a public forum then you don't get to choose who responds and with what opinions. I feel strongly about making pregnant women feel guilty, particularly on issues that they won't even be confronting for years.
I agree you should not let fear paralyze you or completely run your life, but I also think that you should be smart about things and not make it easy for people to prey on you. For example, I am a firm believer that no one should post on Facebook that they are on vacation - that is asking for your house to get broken into. I also don't believe OP (or anyone else on here, I see it all of the time) should post their personal information. In fact, it is in the guidelines that you should not. If there is a wacko out there looking to prey on pregnant women, where would they go to first? A pregnancy forum. It is all about being smart so you don't become a victim.
Are pregnant women now fragile little butterflies that can't handle learning something new? Are pregnant women going to break apart if someone corrects them? Seriously, get off it. The "zomg I'm pregnant" excuse has long been played out. If you're not strong enough to handle responses on the Internet and feelings get hurt oh so easily then this isn't the place for you.
And while you are correct that the definition of sex and gender is a fact that cannot be debated, there is actually a lot of conversation and debate in the trans and scientific community about whether there is concrete value in the separation of the terms due to the inherent nature of how they depend upon each other and work together. Even the Wikipedia article could tell you that (also research papers and journals and the American psychological association). Like I said before, lazy activism. You want to throw out a pretentious correction every time someone posts this on a thread despite what seems to me like zero nuanced knowledge about the issues at hand.
I suppose she didn't get attacked, this was mostly the straw that broke the camels back seeing this happen on thread after thread after thread and confused ops feeling bad or attacked.
DS2: BFP 02/09/13 | EDD 10/26/13 | said goodbye 06/02/13
I do not believe I am a prejudicial jerk.
Edited because I realize I got the context wrong.
Not knowing the correct term doesn't make someone a prejudicial jerk. They just didn't know and didn't lurk around the boards to find out. Fine. There are many women around here who simply say "thanks for letting me know." Then there are the others who would rather argue the point because how dare someone correct them or they don't care to use the term correctly. There's a difference.
Your point is essentially, 'I know that I am right and you are wrong and the board would be more pleasant if everyone just accepted that.' Despite basically ignoring every comment I have made about the nuances and specifics of the transgendered community and why black and white views aren't always the best. You could have said, 'it seems like you're coming at this from a place where you care about the community but we've reached different viewpoints on how its important to support that community.' But instead you continue to try to just belittle my opinion and say that I'm overreacting...I could throw that back at you and ask why you are overreacting to me. I feel that conversations that actually delve into the issue are more constructive to promoting broad consciousness and awareness of the issue. And I feel that when people snidely correct people on a term without that context that you do more harm than good and it will turn people off, as you have turned me off despite essentially agreeing on the core issue of the importance of tolerance. I do not think I am projecting, I think the OP here was originally kind of piqued and have seen it across many threads. I am entitled to comment on it when I see it, you are entitled to disagree with my opinion.
I did not intend to call you a name, I apologize if the way I wrote that came off that way.
Ok? You are right, I feel condescended to and criticized by your delivery. You clearly also don't like my delivery because you are arguing with me too?
The OP 'liked' my first couple of posts so I don't think I am misreading her pique, and her response to being corrected was to say that that was the term her doctor used which is why she used it which seemed defensive to me, as if she felt attacked. You say I am making assumptions, and perhaps I am, but you are too (about me if no one else). And I am responding to you because you engaged in the discussion. Is critiquing this issue with you somehow invalid because you were not the person who initiated the correction in this particular thread? Because I literally don't understand why you want to argue about whether or not we should be arguing. If people have two differing opinions on a message board...they go back and forth due to the nature of a message board.
Your point was invalid because you said my delivery is what's keeping OP from hearing my point. I wasn't the one who pointed it out so no, my delivery has nothing to do with OP.
Here's what bothered me:
1. Telling people the distinction between the two words doesn't matter.
2. Acting like no one should ever correct a pregnant woman.
3. Making up situations that never happened. (Especially this)
And that's why I engaged. When I say that I don't get why this is an argument, that's because essentially you agree with the facts. We're for the same thing......relatively. So really you were trying to be a WK because you didn't like the tone of the comments from the posters who corrected the OP. And because of that, you keep arguing against the facts when it's the tone that was the real issue. I don't get that at all.
Ok. I believe you have in fact misunderstood my issue (or straight up don't agree with it which is certainly your right)
My general argument is against a trend I have noticed across the boards of people doing this. And that the tone with which this correction is delivered frequently seems to not be received well. Not necessarily specifically when YOU delivery the message, just generally where I have seen it delivered. this thread included. My original post was not directed at you, you stepped in to defend the original corrector which is why I'm talking to you and not to that person. This is a subjective opinion, but it is what I think. Re: your general points:
1) You are saying I am arguing that the disctinction between the two words doesn't matter. I don't believe that the distinction matters in infancy or early childhood, so that is accurate. My secondary argument is that as people age, while there is a difference between the words, there is not as much of one as you believe there is. I think you are separating them completely when it is not that simple of an issue. The fact that there are blurred lines between gender and sex and that the terms are intertwined in a fundamental way is not controversial. I think there is a lot more nuance to the issue, and therefore that makes making the terminology the battle ground both ineffective and possibly missing the point. I also think that when people switch to 'I'm having a boy/girl' they are essentially making the exact same linguistic slight you see in the gender conversation, but that those are seen as innocent and understandable, which I think is unfair.I think we disagree here, which is fine, but I do not believe my opinion is prejudiced nor am I the only one to have it. So telling me over and over that this is a simple fact and I'm wrong came off as very dismissive. I have put a lot of thought into this, I have more than casual thoughts and opinions on the subject that have taken into account the experience and emotions of the trans population. That doesn't mean I am an expert, but engaging people in a thoughtful conversation when people are coming from a positive place (positive place in this context meaning supportive of the transgendered population or seeking deeper understanding) is better than being dismissive just because you have come to different conclusions.
2) People can correct pregnant women when they are wrong, obviously. I don't think they should correct them in ways that make the corrector seem superior, which is how I frequently read the corrections that are made on this issue. I also, due to the views I just said up in number 1, think this is a more complicated issue and therefore don't really see this as a correction but more an imposition of one person/group's beliefs on how best to be politically correct and sensitive in regards to a certain population. I don't see this particular distinction as black and white. Had the woman said, 'transgender people don't really exist' or 'transgendered people don't deserve respect' than I would say yes, correct away. Language, particularly around this subject, is confusing and difficult to navigate. I think trying to see where a person is coming from on the issue is more helpful than the standard issue, sex =/= gender one off that gets tossed off here.
3) I don't know what you're talking about. I responded to you, I didn't target you. My interpretation of how people respond to this question could be wrong but I'm not making things up.