@gabrielafrnqyepez I think by the abortion comment she meant, by either the guy forcing you to when you don't want to, or by you wanting to for circumstances and the male saying no... That's what I got out of it ! And I guess I'm gonna gender mutilate my son if we have one ! Because bf is getting him circumsized !
Yes, my point was that you can't in one argument say "men can't make choices for womens bodies!" Then turn around and shout yr side of the argument and try to make decisions for your male child's body if another man (his father) has a differing opinion than you.
I believe the feminist line is "No uterus, no opinion". I'm just saying it has to work both ways. No penis, no opinion.
It is genital mutilation, whether you or your h make the choice it is !
ok lets change the wording GENITAL CHANGING OR GENITAL ALTERING , that sound pretty harmless correct. But y change smtn that doesn't need to be changed ?(aside for medical reasons)
BUT YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO YOUR OPINION ....
let's tread very lightly with comments about abortion I'm not exactly sure were u were headed with that comment. and this is not the thread for that!
A word of caution...this level of extreme opposition kind of verges on seeming anti semetic. I'm sure that's not how you mean it but circumsicion is actually a religious ceremony, those are the actual origins. If you asked victims of female genital mutilation if they would do that to their daughters, you would not get a yes. It is a much more profoundly damaging procedure.
My husband was actually kind of offended by this entire discussion and a bunch of women arguing about whether or not his penis worked. It's really not the same thing and the religious ties make it an even touchier subject.
My point is this thread has always been that if it's not needed y mess with it , religious believes or medical needs make it a whole other thing ! Now as far as extreme opposition I think you are reaching its called standing by your opinions which is what this whole forum thing is based on. Women discussing their points of view and y they feel that way. And I agree with you in that the man having the penis makes the choice, but at the same time if my partner and to didn't agree on ITT that would be amtn that I myself had discussed what b4 getting into having a baby this was discussed in the planning and deciding if we would have one.
So about 117 boys die each yr as a result of their circumcisions . just the fact that my child could have been one of those boys makes me cringe. Some are lucky some here have stated that their kids never even cried ! U know lucky them , I am not one to gamble I don't do it with money so I def won't do it with my child's health.
@gabrielafrnqyepez I think by the abortion comment she meant, by either the guy forcing you to when you don't want to, or by you wanting to for circumstances and the male saying no... That's what I got out of it ! And I guess I'm gonna gender mutilate my son if we have one ! Because bf is getting him circumsized !
Yes, my point was that you can't in one argument say "men can't make choices for womens bodies!" Then turn around and shout yr side of the argument and try to make decisions for your male child's body if another man (his father) has a differing opinion than you.
I believe the feminist line is "No uterus, no opinion". I'm just saying it has to work both ways. No penis, no opinion.
You are so misguided. Women don't want men passing laws the prohibit choices for our bodies. I am perfect okay with woman not passing laws about circing either.
Religious ties make everything a touchier subject. I don't think anything in this thread was bashing religious reasons for circumsion. People who are obviously not of that practicing religion don't know why circumcision is done and asked for explanation, in fact most opposers blantently said they understood that religion plays a role in this decision for many and for those that it didn't wanted to know what their reasons for circumcisions are. If there was anything bordering anti-semitic I must have missed it because I didn't get that at all. Secondly you cannot compare the choice of abortion to this. That choice is made by an adult woman who is opposing adult males from weighing in on this decision. We are not talking about adult males opposing adult females from choosing on whether or not they lose their foreskin, we are talking about male babies, newborns, our sons. And if it's my son I'm going to do what feels right as his mother to protect and keep him from harm, that's my job. Anyone can do the same with their sons but the debate is on whether this practice of circumsion causes harm or not, THAT IS THE DEBATE, nothing else.
I think you can talk about circumsicion without basically accusing parents of child abuse. Whether or not you would hold a Jewish mother to the same standard you're still telling an entire population of people that they are mutilating their children's bodies through amputation. But for them you think it's ok because it's religious?
I'm not saying anyone is anti semetic, just saying that if i were a Jewish woman reading this thread I would be crazy offended so it's something to keep in mind.
Of course this is a message board and people can express differing opinions it just seems to me that taking it all the way to telling a pregnant woman that "you are mutilating your infants genitals" is very extreme, kind of offensive and if nothing else, not really going to actually reach the other side.
Those who have commented here have done so on their personal believes....I can't speak for everyone so I will speak for my self !.... Individuals that circumcise their boys for religious reasons do so for a believe and do so with some sort of reasoning behind it something that's instilled in them from birth. I feel like they have at least done so not for the aesthetics of it but for their religion. Whether I think they are mutilating their child or not ..yes I do ...that doesn't change my opinion but the circumstances behind their choices are different then from someone who just wants to do it because " it looks good" or because the father is so why not...in my opinion these people have no foundation or reason to doing it and that's where my idea comes in of if its not necessary why bother with it , why take the risk that something can go wrong, I won't be a pessimist and say that something will go wrong but it can and that's a reality! And not that those that do this for religious reasons some how can escape risk ,because they dont. I feel like in life there's double standards for everything and religion provides that !
@gabrielafrnqyepez I think by the abortion comment she meant, by either the guy forcing you to when you don't want to, or by you wanting to for circumstances and the male saying no... That's what I got out of it ! And I guess I'm gonna gender mutilate my son if we have one ! Because bf is getting him circumsized !
Yes, my point was that you can't in one argument say "men can't make choices for womens bodies!" Then turn around and shout yr side of the argument and try to make decisions for your male child's body if another man (his father) has a differing opinion than you.
I believe the feminist line is "No uterus, no opinion". I'm just saying it has to work both ways. No penis, no opinion.
You are so misguided. Women don't want men passing laws the prohibit choices for our bodies. I am perfect okay with woman not passing laws about circing either.
Me personally I don't agree with it and it doesn't matter to me with it's religious reasons of reasons of aesthetics. At the same time I'm not condemning anyone for doing it either it's just not something I would do with my child. In any hot topic issue you are going to get strong opinions on both sides that's expected. As long as the discussion remains respectful I think this forum serves as a good eye opener to both sides of the coin and can help other moms weigh their decision. Like I mentioned before I was very pro-circumcision until I educated myself more on the topic. On the flip side my sister also did research on the topic and still chose to circumcise her son and I don't respect her any less.
If we have a boy we are choosing to circumsized him (: ! And I'm happy with that decision, my bfs whole family has it done ! And none of them "died" or had any problems with it what so ever ! You hear of more problems with foreskin then you do with circumsion ! And I'm not mutilating my child genitals because I choose to have him circumsized, he will have it done by a certified professional surgeon, not because of a religious view, nor do I care what others will say about me circumsizing him !
I think you can talk about circumsicion without basically accusing parents of child abuse.
^^^^ This!
One thing that gets under my skin in the whole circ/anti-circ debate is the accusation that parents like me, who have chosen to have their son's circumcised are abusive. I think that if this baby is a boy, I'll probably let him be the one to decide whether or not to keep his foreskin, but 2 years ago, when my son was born, I made what I thought was the right decision. I asked my husband, since he actually has a penis (and therefore gets to have an opinion) and he said circumcise! I feel like many parents who make this choice do the same.
Maybe it's unnecessary and we shouldn't do it, but I agree that we can have this discussion without name-calling.
We have not had the discussion, but I'm hoping my husband will look at the issue with an open mind (he is circ). We have never discussed it before, as we have two daughters. I am very much in the non-circ camp, but won't alienate him when we discuss.
At the end of the day, I would much rather my son make the decision for himself as an adult. If it is that important to him to have it done aesthetically, he can deal with the recovery, just as anyone undergoing elective cosmetic surgery does. If he is one of the few, rare unlucky ones as a child with issues requiring circumcision, we will assess the situation as needed.
My oldest needed ear tubes and her tonsils and adenoids removed, but I didn't have my younger dd get tubes just in case, nor tonsils removed just in case. If circumcision becomes necessary, that bridge can be crossed at that time.
Okay. I let my husband decide, after I did a lot of research and we talked about it and I like that he wanted to circumsise our boy. However if he didn't want to I would have gone with that because he's a guy and has a bit more experience in guyness than I do. (And it was one thing he could decide in regards to childbirth.)
I just don't see how it's a big enough thing for him to threaten leaving.
I had this discussion with my husband long before we got pregnant and long before we got married. He at first was pro cir until I asked him why. At which point he mumbled something that included the phrase "Well... Cause I am and uh, I don't know." My response was that is NOT good enough. I gave him a chance to do his research and give me actual legitimate reasons. He could find none. Within a very short time of showing him some videos, some statistics, and expressing my personal feelings on the matter, he agreed with me and is now actually very firmly in the anti cir camp. By the time we found out we were having a boy we didn't have to have a discussion because it was decided long beforehand that unless medically necessary we would not alter our children in any way.
I read this thread back when it first started, but somehow missed the comment that anyone who had their doctor tell them their baby slept through it lied to them. OK. My son was STILL sleeping when they brought him back to me and didn't wake up until they handed him off to me, but cool.
I hope anyone here can make an informed decision based on the PRACTICAL information presented. Don't let fearmongering in either direction dissuade you from what you feel is the right choice. At the end of the day it is your family's decision only.
Babies sleep through painful procedures often. It's a protective mechanism. I don't know how anyone can imagine they're not in pain. Do you realize what a circumcision is? New research was recently released proving that infants feel pain at intensely as adults. Although why this was in doubt is beyond me. You aren't saving your child from pain by doing it as an infant, you are just limiting their ability to be adequately treated for pain and yourself from their ability to express it. I'm sure if babies could tell us about their pain it would change the outlook for many parents. And if you want to argue that your baby had pain treatment, there is research on that being inadequate and underused too.
Babies sleep through painful procedures often. It's a protective mechanism. I don't know how anyone can imagine they're not in pain. Do you realize what a circumcision is? New research was recently released proving that infants feel pain at intensely as adults. Although why this was in doubt is beyond me. You aren't saving your child from pain by doing it as an infant, you are just limiting their ability to be adequately treated for pain and yourself from their ability to express it. I'm sure if babies could tell us about their pain it would change the outlook for many parents. And if you want to argue that your baby had pain treatment, there is research on that being inadequate and underused too.
Oh I don't recall saying he didn't experience any pain. I have my opinion, you have yours. My child is a happy, healthy 9 month old who wasn't adversely affected by his circumcision. I'm 100% fine with my decision, and I respect that you don't share my opinion. I just didn't agree with someone saying that all doctors who said the baby slept were lying. It was an extreme exaggeration and not helpful to the discussion nor factual.
I think it's cruel! Chopping off a bit off baby's bits!? Not anyone's decision but the boy's when he is old enough. Hygiene reasons?! Just keep him clean and teach him how to clean himself. My opinion...
Re: Husband and I don't agree on circumcision
Yes, my point was that you can't in one argument say "men can't make choices for womens bodies!" Then turn around and shout yr side of the argument and try to make decisions for your male child's body if another man (his father) has a differing opinion than you.
I believe the feminist line is "No uterus, no opinion". I'm just saying it has to work both ways. No penis, no opinion.
My husband was actually kind of offended by this entire discussion and a bunch of women arguing about whether or not his penis worked. It's really not the same thing and the religious ties make it an even touchier subject.
So about 117 boys die each yr as a result of their circumcisions . just the fact that my child could have been one of those boys makes me cringe.
Some are lucky some here have stated that their kids never even cried ! U know lucky them , I am not one to gamble I don't do it with money so I def won't do it with my child's health.
I get the feeling you just aren't very bright.
I'm not saying anyone is anti semetic, just saying that if i were a Jewish woman reading this thread I would be crazy offended so it's something to keep in mind.
Of course this is a message board and people can express differing opinions it just seems to me that taking it all the way to telling a pregnant woman that "you are mutilating your infants genitals" is very extreme, kind of offensive and if nothing else, not really going to actually reach the other side.
Ok, you can tell yourself that if it helps.
We have not had the discussion, but I'm hoping my husband will look at the issue with an open mind (he is circ). We have never discussed it before, as we have two daughters. I am very much in the non-circ camp, but won't alienate him when we discuss.
At the end of the day, I would much rather my son make the decision for himself as an adult. If it is that important to him to have it done aesthetically, he can deal with the recovery, just as anyone undergoing elective cosmetic surgery does. If he is one of the few, rare unlucky ones as a child with issues requiring circumcision, we will assess the situation as needed.
My oldest needed ear tubes and her tonsils and adenoids removed, but I didn't have my younger dd get tubes just in case, nor tonsils removed just in case. If circumcision becomes necessary, that bridge can be crossed at that time.
Okay. I let my husband decide, after I did a lot of research and we talked about it and I like that he wanted to circumsise our boy. However if he didn't want to I would have gone with that because he's a guy and has a bit more experience in guyness than I do. (And it was one thing he could decide in regards to childbirth.)
I just don't see how it's a big enough thing for him to threaten leaving.