NWMR: Judaism question

potbellypig

First off Happy Hanukkah!

Question...because I'm clueless and have no Jewish friends. My understanding of the Old Testament is that there are lots of rules that Jewish people must follow in order to keep favour with God. It seems to me that most Jewish people are secular/culturally Jewish and don't hold fast to those rules. So if you're not an Orthodox Jew, are you still "waiting for the Son of God"? Can you ignore/overlook any/most/all of the rules in the Old Testament and still legitimately hold on to that promise? Or can you follow those rules and it's just not obvious (i.e. like an Orthodox Jew).

Hope this doesn't offend and apologies if it does, I'm just curious.

Edit: punctuation

welly01

potbellypig said:

First off Happy Hanukkah!

Question...because I'm clueless and have no Jewish friends. My understanding of the Old Testament is that there are lots of rules that Jewish people must follow in order to keep favour with God. It seems to me that most Jewish people are secular/culturally Jewish and don't hold fast to those rules. So if you're not an Orthodox Jew, are you still "waiting for the Son of God"? Can you ignore/overlook any/most/all of the rules in the Old Testament and still legitimately hold on to that promise? Or can you follow those rules and it's just not obvious (i.e. like an Orthodox Jew).

Hope this doesn't offend and apologies if it does, I'm just curious.

Edit: punctuation

I will preface my answer by saying that my knowledge of actual Jewish culture/religion is limited, but I'll share what my experience is.

My stepdad was raised Presbyterian but later in life discovered that he had a Jewish heritage.  He took an interest in the Jewish culture/religion.  We started going to a Messianic (that's the only name I've heard of it referred to as, not sure if there might be another name) Jewish church.  So basically, they believe that Jesus was God's son, but they still observe all Jewish holidays/ceremonies.  They are considered Christian.  We celebrated Passover, etc.  I have no idea what portion of the Jewish population this accounts for.

I'm sure Judaism is like any other religion.  You have super strict/conservative members who follow the letter of the law but you also have people who were just raised that way but aren't really currently practicing...and everything in between.

welly01

K3am said:

@welly01 - is this along the concepts of Jews for Jesus? (I don't know what the PC concept/phrasing of this is, sorry)

I'm not sure what that is.

alli2672

There are 4 types of Judaism practiced in the US.  Only the Orthodox Jews practice the rules that you mentioned illustrated in the Torah.  The others have different interpretations about what it means to be Jewish.  And there are a lot of people who just consider themselves to be culturally Jewish, but aren't really practicing. 

Here is a link with little blurbs about each type:

https://www.joi.org/qa/denom.shtml

[Deleted User]

K3am said:

Also, FWIW, most Christians don't steadfastly hold to all the tenets of the bible, but that doesn't make them any less Christian.

This. 

potbellypig

Thank you for all of your responses! It makes more sense to me now.

momofcatan

I find your question very interesting. I am Jewish, religious, and I feel like because I don't know that much about Christianity I don't understand your question. Phrases like  "waiting for the Son of God"?  "hold on to that promise", "salvation" are not really in the Jewish vocabulary.

There is a concept that the messiah is coming. We do not think he is the son of G-d, rather an independent entity brought by G-d. For most (even the very religious) Jews that is not the primary focus of our practice. We follow the laws and practices because that is what G-d commanded. We hope that by doing good deeds the messiah will come, but as I said, for many, it's not really a huge part of daily devotion. There are 13 pillars of faith that one fo the sages taught, believing in the messiah is one of them (but there are still 12 others).

Just like Christians, Jews come is all sorts of flavors with various beliefs and practices. I will say that for the most part, those who are not very strict or strong in their practices are usually not  spiritual or focused on G-d and the coming of the messiah. Like everything there are exceptions to this.

Hope that helps explain it.

ETA Judaism (most denominations) hold that whether or not you are a Jew is 100% based on whether your parents were Jewish, it does not matter what you believe or practice. We accept converts (though don't overly encourage it) and believe that once born a Jew you are always a Jew.

Also, I hate using "we" because obviously I don't' represent every Jew but couldn't find a better way to phrase it.

momofcatan

@K3am Messianic Judaism is the PC name for Jews for Jesus.

potbellypig

momofcatan said:

I find your question very interesting. I am Jewish, religious, and I feel like because I don't know that much about Christianity I don't understand your question. Phrases like  "waiting for the Son of God"?  "hold on to that promise", "salvation" are not really in the Jewish vocabulary.

I was born Catholic and left that Church a few years ago to be baptized (again) as a Christian. My understanding is that Jews were waiting for the messiah (I wrongly assumed they would think he was the Son of God). My Christian understanding of why Jewish people have so many rules (i.e. no pork for example) is to stay on God's "good side" (just think of the time in the Old Testament where God gets mad that the Jews didn't listen to him). Jewish people had to sacrifice animals to atone for their wrong doings (I might be simplifying this, I only have a basic understanding of Judaism). When Christ came, he said the only rules you have to follow are "love your God" and "love your neighbour" very simplistic, but all 10 commandments fall under either of those categories (which is why Christian don't "have" to do many things, although different churches do hold on to parts of older traditions, like wearing head covering in church). When Christ died on the cross as the ultimate sacrifice, he absolved Christians of the need to sacrifice animals to atone for sin. Anyone who accepts Christ is covered by his sacrifice if that makes sense.

[Deleted User]

potbellypig said:

 When Christ came, he said the only rules you have to follow are "love your God" and "love your neighbour" very simplistic, but all 10 commandments fall under either of those categories (which is why Christian don't "have" to do many things, although different churches do hold on to parts of older traditions, like wearing head covering in church). When Christ died on the cross as the ultimate sacrifice, he absolved Christians of the need to sacrifice animals to atone for sin. Anyone who accepts Christ is covered by his sacrifice if that makes sense.

That is not at all what I learned in church.  Which all goes back to the varying interpretations of both Jewish and Christian beliefs and practices. 

When learning about a different faith, I've found it helpful to abandon what I learned via church (the point of view will obviously be skewed) and read up on it myself. 

potbellypig

MarlaSinger& said:

potbellypig said:

 When Christ came, he said the only rules you have to follow are "love your God" and "love your neighbour" very simplistic, but all 10 commandments fall under either of those categories (which is why Christian don't "have" to do many things, although different churches do hold on to parts of older traditions, like wearing head covering in church). When Christ died on the cross as the ultimate sacrifice, he absolved Christians of the need to sacrifice animals to atone for sin. Anyone who accepts Christ is covered by his sacrifice if that makes sense.

That is not at all what I learned in church.  Which all goes back to the varying interpretations of both Jewish and Christian beliefs and practices. 

When learning about a different faith, I've found it helpful to abandon what I learned via church (the point of view will obviously be skewed) and read up on it myself. 

My understanding comes from reading the studying the New Testament, not what I've learnt in my church. I made the choice to learn and study the Bible myself after years of being spoon-fed beliefs in Catholic church and never actually reading the Bible.

But yes I agree about different interpretations and getting away from specific church doctrine when learning about different religions.

[Deleted User]

potbellypig said:

MarlaSinger& said:

When learning about a different faith, I've found it helpful to abandon what I learned via church (the point of view will obviously be skewed) and read up on it myself. 

My understanding comes from reading the studying the New Testament, not what I've learnt in my church. I made the choice to learn and study the Bible myself after years of being spoon-fed beliefs in Catholic church and never actually reading the Bible.

I was referring to learning about other religions; not your own.

potbellypig

MarlaSinger& said:

potbellypig said:

MarlaSinger& said:

When learning about a different faith, I've found it helpful to abandon what I learned via church (the point of view will obviously be skewed) and read up on it myself. 

My understanding comes from reading the studying the New Testament, not what I've learnt in my church. I made the choice to learn and study the Bible myself after years of being spoon-fed beliefs in Catholic church and never actually reading the Bible.

I was referring to learning about other religions; not your own.

I realized this after the fact, but then my computer didn't let me edit my post. I thought you meant different versions of the same at first. I agree with you though!

[Deleted User]

If I relied on what the Southern Baptist Church taught me about Catholicism, y'all be the devil.

shannm

MarlaSinger& said:

If I relied on what the Southern Baptist Church taught me about Catholicism, y'all be the devil.

Yes, I was taught that Catholics are not Christian.  My DH loves when I pull that one out.

blush64

shannm said:

MarlaSinger& said:

If I relied on what the Southern Baptist Church taught me about Catholicism, y'all be the devil.

Yes, I was taught that Catholics are not Christian.  My DH loves when I pull that one out.

I am Catholic and I have been told by people in a different denomination of Christianity that I am not a Christian. They have actually told me a lot about my religion and not surprisingly they were misinformed. Growing up in the Catholic religion I was not spoon fed beliefs or told how to believe. I guess like most things it depends on who are around and where you are.

shannm

blush64 said:

shannm said:

MarlaSinger& said:

If I relied on what the Southern Baptist Church taught me about Catholicism, y'all be the devil.

Yes, I was taught that Catholics are not Christian.  My DH loves when I pull that one out.

I am Catholic and I have been told by people in a different denomination of Christianity that I am not a Christian. They have actually told me a lot about my religion and not surprisingly they were misinformed. Growing up in the Catholic religion I was not spoon fed beliefs or told how to believe. I guess like most things it depends on who are around and where you are.

Eh, the rationale behind the statement was less about Catholicism and more about their specific beliefs. Their point was that through Christ directly alone (no priest, pope, Mary, saints) could you achieve salvation. They weren't saying that Christ wasn't a part of the catholic faith.

[Deleted User]

Yes. The point was you can't rely on YOUR religion to teach you about OTHER religions.

alli2672

shannm said:

shannm said:

MarlaSinger& said:

If I relied on what the Southern Baptist Church taught me about Catholicism, y'all be the devil.

Yes, I was taught that Catholics are not Christian.  My DH loves when I pull that one out.

I am Catholic and I have been told by people in a different denomination of Christianity that I am not a Christian. They have actually told me a lot about my religion and not surprisingly they were misinformed. Growing up in the Catholic religion I was not spoon fed beliefs or told how to believe. I guess like most things it depends on who are around and where you are.

Eh, the rationale behind the statement was less about Catholicism and more about their specific beliefs. Their point was that through Christ directly alone (no priest, pope, Mary, saints) could you achieve salvation. They weren't saying that Christ wasn't a part of the catholic faith.

ahh...I get this now.  I am Catholic, and didn't quite understand how anyone could not know that Catholics were Christian.  Then again, I had dinner with some Mormon friends the other day, and one of the elders asked me if Catholics had missionaries.  Obviously @sctiger was not his history teacher. 

[Deleted User]

alli2672 said:

 

I am Catholic, and didn't quite understand how anyone could not know that Catholics were Christian. 

And that was my point.  I was raised in a small Southern Baptist Church.  We were taught they weren't.  Obviously I know better (or actually couldn't care less) now but that was what was being taught. 

As a side note, misinformation being taught as fact is a huge reason I am not in favor of leaving sex ed up to parents.  But I guess that's another debate.

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