Irrate About Meeting with HR

doodah1013

So... I have been putting off dealing with the paperwork side of things for as long as possible because of our insensitive work policies. I work for an organization that will not acknowledge our marriage, and if I were not carrying our baby, the child would not be treated as mine.

This policies suck as they are... And don't really matter at this point because I do happen to be carrying this child.

Anyways, I asked once more for the paperwork to be sent to me electronically with instructions on how to complete them... I just happened to have popped by our main office when the VP of HR asked to meet with me quickly. She said she wanted to chat face to face so she coulda me sure I understood our policies. She then went on to tell me how I wouldn't be paid for sick time because it would be considered "child bonding" and not a medical occurrence. I was very confused... When she asked if I understood, I told her, a flat "no".

She then closed her door and sat down and in her most "compassionate" voice started to explain, "Well in the state of Ohio...." At that point it clicked...!! She was gearing up to tell me how our marriage was considered valid and how since second parent adoption wasn't legal in Ohio, I couldn't use sick time for our new baby. Also, she made a total assumption that I wasn't pregnant... Now... I am not sitting at 12 weeks here. We are full term (as of tomorrow). Either she thinks I am smuggling a large melon under my sweatshirt, or her ideas of gender norming are complete blinding.

So when she started with "in the the state of Ohio...." I waved my hand and said "I am going to go ahead and stop you right there... I am carrying the child." And here is the kicker.... Then she giggled awkwardly, congratulated me and explained the paperwork... Like congratulations were only in order because I am the pregnant one.

I then muttered, " I hope that makes things easier on you..." She was clearly beyond her depths on this one.

Now I am ready to start a revolution... It is one thing for our office policies to suck, it is another thing to make so many insensitive judgement and comments.

I am happy to take suggestions as to where to go from here.

KH826

I am going to sleep on this one and come back in the morning with a thoughtful response. However, I would like to say now how sorry about this I am, and I think a revolution is in order!

StacyLH24

I am so sorry that this happened to you. How incredibly insensitive, to say the least. I also want to mull this over before giving any suggestions. I agree on the revolution.

Twochickshavinachick

That sucks! I don't really know how I would respond to this, if we were in a similar situation. And even if she knows she's following a ridiculous policy, your HR rep could have handled that with more sensitivity and advocated for you.
In the end, you need to do what feels right for your family (especially if you have to go back to working for these people later) I personally would check in with the appropriate advocacy group. Does your company have an lgbt alliance? They would be most clued up on this. If nothing else, it will raise awareness that something needs to be done.
keep us filled in.

KH826

Alright, so I have lots and lots of thoughts and feelings on this now that I have had some time to mull it over further...

Let's start with the obvious -- this person is an idiot. I mean, you are 37 weeks (yay!) pregnant. Seriously! The fact that she felt congratulations were in order only after she realized you were carrying is heartbreaking. I almost feel sorry for her. Her view of what makes a family is so narrow and misguided. As an HR professional, she should be ashamed of herself. There is simply no other way to put it.

Now, onto my rage about the way parental leave works (or doesn't!) in the United States. There are some people who are lucky enough to work for companies/organizations with stellar maternity/parental/family leave plans. My comments are not going to pertain to those people, but I do recognize that they do exist, for the minority of people in this country.

Here was my personal experience with leave when I had my son: I had 7 weeks off at full pay, but only 2 of those weeks were considered "maternity leave" by my company. Then I used 2 weeks of sick time I had accumulated, followed by 3 weeks of vacation time that I had saved. I took 3 working days with no pay, and at 7.5 weeks postpartum, I returned to work. I have been at my company for 5 years. 2 weeks is the maximum maternity leave offered, after that you use your accumulated PTO, once you exhaust your PTO, you are eligible for FMLA at up to 60% of your pay for 4 more weeks (BUT you also have to pay the company back for what they pay into your health insurance during that time since technically you are on unpaid leave). Well, 60% of my pay wasn't going to cut it as the bread winner in my family, so I went back to work. If I had not had 2 weeks of sick time and three weeks of vacation time saved, then 60% of pay would have started after only 2 weeks, and would have lasted until 6 weeks post partum, then nothing.... AND this was with me being the gestational parent. My wife, got NOTHING from her job. She used the week of vacation she had left, then she went back to work part time when Will was 6 days old for a few weeks before she quit to be a SAHM. If our plan had not been for her to be a SAHM, she would have had a whopping 6 days with our son before returning to work.  

My point is this, this system is broken! Having a child (be it through pregnancy for you or your partner/spouse, adoption, or other means) is a giant life changing event. Working, tax paying Americans are pretty much left to their own devices to figure out how to afford to take time off from work when starting/building a family. In my opinion, it is shameful. People who go through childbirth should have a minimum of 12 fully paid weeks off. Folks who become parents but do not actually give birth themselves (partners/spouses, people who are adopting, etc.) should be offered a minimum of 6 weeks at full pay. It is the least that can be done, in my opinion!

OK, rant over about that, and sorry if I went off on a tangent about parental leave here. I just get really fired up about this topic! I kept thinking about what would happen if A worked at the same organization as you do, and if you both had sat down together with HR. A would have been SOL since she is not carrying, and that is SO wrong.

Now back to the VP of HR... who does she report to? Do you think that person might be at all understanding here, or are they equally misguided in this area? In terms of suggestions on how much of a revolution you want to start, I think it depends on how many waves you want to make with your employer at this point. Also, and not to be discounted, you are having a baby in a few short period of time. The last thing you need right now is drama. While I think a revolution is in order, taking on that burden during this time in your life is a lot...

I honestly don't know what I would do. I would probably write a strongly worded letter/email summarizing the encounter and how I felt about it to submit to the VP of HR and her boss, and then I would let it go... for my own sanity while prepping to have a baby at any time...

Again, I am really sorry that this happened to you. It is so shitty for so many reasons. Offering big hugs! Let us know what you decide to do. And if you need foot soldiers in your revolution, just let us know!

2momsinCA

Nicely said @KH826‌!

@doodah1013‌ I'm so sorry that your company has intolerant policies and employs disgustingly intolerant people who can barely even congratulate you for your pregnancy. I understand your desire to start a revolution, your post made me so angry. I just wish I knew how to go about it.

redrockmama

I'm so sorry you had that experience. It sounds like the company could use some training. If that happened to me, I would approach an ally in the organization-above you in the hierarchy and suggest having someone could in to do sensitivity/equality training. If there isn't one I would do what @KH826 said about the VP of HR to her boss and strongly suggest training, at least for the HR department. Pretty soon our marriages will be legal in all states and these archaic folks will just have to get over it. Do you have a state LGBT advocacy organization like Equality Ohio or something? It looks like it based on a quick google. I know here either they, or more likely, our community pride center offers this kind of thing all the time. Good luck in whatever you decide to do or not do. Our families deserve better and there are a lot of people out there that just don't get it yet. Often they don't even realize they are being asshats. Education does wonders.

bfonz619

@KH826 touched on everything I would, and I agree with the suggestion of writing a strongly worded letter or email to her and her boss.  Wow.  I am so sorry you had this experience and hope that going forward you do not have to deal with anything even remotely close to this again.

JGY

So ... we know you love your job.  But, unfortunately, you work for (or at least around/near) some real a-holes.  And also, you happen to be in a state that still has discriminatory laws on the books.

Is this idiot's behavior typical of leaders in your company?

So just to state for the record, I am fuming for you.  We look to our leaders, ESPECIALLY THOSE IN HR, to be sensitive, well-spoken, and to handle difficult interpersonal situations well.  This woman displayed none of those characteristics. 

But I think the crux of this problem is three-fold: OH's laws suck right now related to gay marriage, the US (and most states) has some really effed up parental leave laws (actually, they don't have any - other than FMLA which not everyone qualifies for and does nothing in terms of income), and your HR person is a total idiot.  Unfortunately, while you can certainly work for political change, you're only likely going to be able to cause a near-term change on the last of the 3 things.

I agree with PP that a carefully worded letter (remember, you love your job and the reality is that you need to keep that in mind) addressing the VP of HR's issues of gender norming is probably the way to go.  Your company's policies may suck, but most companies do the bare minimum required by the state and federal government because they believe it's the most economical for them.  And they haven't figured out yet that happy, well-supported employees are better and more productive employees.  But whatever.  I guess what I'm saying is that any arguments you make about the company's policies or applications of local laws will not go nearly as far as an argument for some sensitivity training for a person who likely should be capable of teaching the class herself.

I'm sorry you had to endure that incredibly awkward and offensive encounter.  People really suck sometimes. You deserve better.  We all do.

 

wishiwaspreggo

I'm with @KH826 about our crap maternity/paternity policies in the US.  And I fall under the rare minority who gets the full benefit of 12 weeks paid (it's through my PTO bank but I earn 7 weeks a year so it's pretty easy to save up your days).  Still pittance compared to our Canadian friends but there you go.

Reading your post made my stomach hurt.  I can't even imagine sitting across from such an ignorant pig and keeping my composure, especially with all my raging hormones.  Kudos to you for not flipping the table over and shoving her out a window!

I'm not sure how compassionate upper management is at your company but I would definitely report her for being so blatantly insensitive and inconsiderate.  It is 100% inexcusable for a VP of HR to behave that way.  That goes against everything HR is supposed to be!  My HR treats my partner and I with respect as a couple and as future parents.  I cannot begin to imagine how I'd react if I wasn't treated with respect, by my own employer no less.

If you don't think the person above her would be sympathetic, I'd look for a new job after you've had the baby and settled in with life as a new parent.  You deserve better than that.  I live in Indiana which, I believe, is equally as conservative as Ohio and I found an employer that treats me as well as my straight colleagues.  Then I'd toss a whole fish in the VP of HR's vent on my last day, along with disconnecting her computer, phone, and maybe tamper with the doorknob so it's harder to turn, but I'm incredibly petty...

In any case, I am so sorry you had to deal with that at all.  It's incredibly unfair that she can behave like that without any consequences.  I am very sad Ohio won't offer you much protection.  Now that the majority of the states respect same-sex marriage it's just a matter of time before SCOTUS says "enough is enough" and overturns all the remaining hateful bans.

redrockmama

Also, because it may help in addressing the issue. These cities have nondiscrimination ordinances based on gender identity and sexual orientation. 

Ohio

Akron

Athens, City of
Bowling Green, City of
Cincinnati, City of
Cleveland, City of
Columbus, City of
Coshocton, City of
Dayton, City of
East Cleveland, City of
Newark, City of
Oxford, City of
Summit County
Toledo, City of
Yellow Springs, Village of

CageyMack

Wow. Just wow. 

You are a trooper for handing that as gracefully as you did: kudos.

And it always blows my mind that we have to deal with these things when we need them.  By that I mean, you are super pregnant and have a lot on your mind, your body is under stress, and suddenly you have to be a major advocate.  

Ditto on the reasonable, measured advice that others gave.

And, if you can't deal with being raising a rebellion right now, I think that is okay, too.  The tide in America has turned, and I think if a person needs to take a break here or there for being a fierce advocate for the cause, it will be okay.  I'll bet $100 that within a couple years your company will be bending over backward to make sure they comply with nondiscrimination laws.  I hope that doesn't sound like a cop-out answer, just that sometimes it isn't worth it to throw yourself under the bus when the train has already left the station, to mix metaphors.

doodah1013

First, let me say it is wonderful to have a group to come to who just GETS it.  I talk to my Mom and it makes her so sad that all she wants to do is make me feel better, when all I really want are for people to say... YEAH THAT SUCKS... and understand what it means.

I sat down with my Direct Supervisor today... who is amazing on so many levels.  She is also a very good friend, has 3 wonderful children with her spouse (she carried 2 and her partner carried 1)... and has felt all the pains of what our organization has chosen as their policy.  She was pretty upset about the whole ordeal, and immediately wanted to make sure that I was not putting too much stress energy into this at this moment, because I should be focusing on the birth of our first child (yeah... she really is wonderful.)  We made a plan together... but she kind of wants to take the lead on it.  She holds a higher position, has addressed this with the CEO before, and we are both of the opinion that it will be better received coming from her... She is going to get my continuing feedback, and we are working together on how to get it addressed. 

Our short list of concerns that need to be addressed are:

 1.  Making sure the HR person gets sensitivity training

and

 2. That she gets a better understanding of the difference between Federal Law and State Law (FMLA is governed by Federal Law and I am FEDERALLY married, so what she was saying was incorrect, even if I wasn't carrying.)

We are also hoping this will open a broader conversation about our personnel policies.  For those of you don't know, I work for an organization that stands for empowering young women... who has always been ahead of the curve on breaking down gender barriers.  Now that we are headed into being in the last 20% of the country that doesn't have marriage equality, it may be a good idea to think about what being on the wrong side of history on this one will look like.  (*** I must note that although, I do work for an organization that is governed by a national blanket org., each council is able to dictate their own policy on this matter... so please don't take it out on any little kids who come to your door selling cookies...  not all councils choose to discriminate).

I think this is a good time to open this conversation up.  There are a lot of GLBTQ individuals in our organization who are working very hard to ensure a brighter future for our membership.  I just think it is time that someone started thinking about ensuring a brighter future for us as well...

Again, thank you for all of the thoughtful responses...  It made me feel less alone, and very well supported.

ball.and.chain

Mind blowing. And your direct supervisor is wonderful. I'm so glad you have her support.

mommamommy&me

Congrats on your BFP! There are so many butts in this world, it's sad to have to deal with this when you should be thinking happy thoughts. I'm lucky my job even covers my wife on my insurance, but I still have an ass for boss who "doesn't understand why a woman would want to be with another woman." But I live in GA and they offer very little protection under the law. On top of second parent adoption which adds on 4,000 to our Tab for this process. I wish SCOTUS would step in already.