WDPT: Mall threatening to fine stores not open on T-Day

fancynewbeesly

So I just read this. A mall in Buffalo, NY is threatening to fine stores that don't open at 6pm on Thanksgiving day--up to 200 an hour! 

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/11/mall-open-thanksgiving-_n_6141362.html

That really, really left a bad taste in my mouth. Especially because some stores have a right that don't have to be open, and they will be losing money if they stay closed.

fancynewbeesly

CTGirl30 said:

I think it's gross. However, this manager has the right attitude: “It’s a family day, it’s a holiday and frankly it’s really getting out of hand with how stores are opening so early,” said Brian McKnight, manager of Walden Galleria's Art of Shaving boutique, which will absorb the store's $250-an-hour fines and remain closed until 5 a.m. on Black Friday. “It’s about having that comfortable work-life balance and respecting my employees’ holiday time with their families.”

Oh I know. I just feel bad for the managers that are caught between a rock and a hard place---where they initially weren't going to open, and don't want to open--but can't afford to absorb the fines either. 

Mags748

I don't have too much of a problem with stores opening up in the evening on Thanksgiving. DH and I both work in Healthcare and have both had to work holidays at some point and even when I worked in a gas station in high school I had to work some of the major holidays. I also prefer shopping in the evening and walking off some of my big meal rather than getting up at 4am.

However, I think it is ridiculous and awful to fine stores for not being open on Thanksgiving. I should be a choice, not mandatory.

Mags748

TyrannosaurusLex said:

Mags748 said:

I don't have too much of a problem with stores opening up in the evening on Thanksgiving. DH and I both work in Healthcare and have both had to work holidays at some point and even when I worked in a gas station in high school I had to work some of the major holidays. I also prefer shopping in the evening and walking off some of my big meal rather than getting up at 4am.

However, I think it is ridiculous and awful to fine stores for not being open on Thanksgiving. I should be a choice, not mandatory.

I don't think it's fair to draw comparisons between working in a profession like health care or emergency services and retail.

One typically comes with full time job security, benefits, sick leave, paid holidays, the other generally comes with none of that.

I hear that argument a lot and I just don't think the two should be compared.

Yes but as a 16 year old working at a gas station I was required to work either thanksgiving or Christmas. I didn't like it but they decided to stay open 24 hours year round so I dealt with it. I was making close to minimum wage.

Mags748

Mackalien13 said:

I hate this. I agree, it's not like working in health care. Most of these people working make minimum wage and no one NEEDS to shop on Thanksgiving. I hate that shopping on Thanksgiving is a thing. People skip dinner to stand in line.

I am also curious if they can even legally enforce the fine?

I would think no unless they had a signed contract stating it as an expectation to be open.

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tbmadeamistake

All the Simon Malls (RI, MA, NH) are fining their stores $1100 an hour if they don't open on Thanksgiving like the bigger anchor stores are. It's hideous.

tattooedtragedy

I think this is gross and frankly is getting way out of hand. I hate that people go out and shop partially because of all the hype of the huge sales that often really aren't much better than you could get online or at different times of the year. I won't shop on thanksgiving no matter what the sales flyers try to lure me with as a matter of principle.

Mags748

Mackalien13 said:

But I would also say that gas is a necessity. People travel on the Holidays. They need fuel.

They don't need a Wii at 6pm on Thanksgiving. That can wait until Friday.

People don't need to go to a movie theater on Christmas day but Movies open that day. But there is not a big uproar because it's not a new thing. Just trying to point out that there are many non-essential things that are open on holidays.

However I do still think it should be up to the store/company and it's crazy to be fining stores for not being open.

angelashly

TyrannosaurusLex said:

Mackalien13 said:

But I would also say that gas is a necessity. People travel on the Holidays. They need fuel.

They don't need a Wii at 6pm on Thanksgiving. That can wait until Friday.

Don't y'all have pay at the pump stations?

Yes, but the station still has to be open to get the gas.

angelashly

As a Black Friday shopper I'm sad the sales are starting earlier and I'm not going for the first time besides the year I had dd. The sales aren't that good and I'm not giving up my family time. I have worked retail and Black Friday and had to be at work at 3am, but at least I got to spend some time with my family.

oscarwao

Regal Mama said:

In regards to the movies on Christmas thing, I think it's important to remember that christmas is a religious holiday, Thanksgiving is cultural.

But are the theatres open on Thanksgiving too? I thought that was the comparison.

RayRay007

stebnie said:

I think it's probably in the lease. When I worked in the mall, we had to be open if the mall is open or face a fine. Like if weather was bad or something, the mall made the call, not the stores.

Yep it's usually in the lease that stores agree to be open mall hours. I still think it's heavy handed of a mall to require stores to be open on stat holidays.

chevronseven

Random thought: I wonder if malls fine Chick Fil A for not being open Sundays.

littlestjerry

Mackalien13 said:

I think I figured out what is so offensive about this. Thanksgiving is the one day of the year when Americans being THANKFUL for what they ALREADY have. So forcing people to be open and work so people can stand in line to acquire more things is basically a slap in the face to the entire concept of the holiday.

Yes!! The difference between movies open on Christmas and Black Friday starting on Thursday is that Black Friday is just pure, unadulterated greed. And opening Thursday is greedy and gross. I'll go shopping usually in the afternoon on Friday-usually Home Depot for a $5 wreath. I love shopping. But the pushing, the shoving, the missing family time for a fucking TV truly disgusts me. A Walmart employee got stomped to death on Black Friday, what 4, 5 years, ago and no one even really cared. Nope...lets just get that greedy bullshit started even earlier.

littlestjerry

I think Black Friday should start at 6 or 7 am on Friday.

klondikebar

I remember when I was a child some stores weren't open at all on Sundays. Fast food and gas stations were not open on holidays. My dad always had it on the list to fill the tank beforehand. And no stores were open late or 24 hours. I remember going to a Midnight Madness sale at Hills with my mom. I thought it was magical to be in a store so late at night.

Things have changed so much since I was a kid. I do think it's sad when anyone isn't able to celebrate any holiday as they choose whether it's due to work, coordinating schedules or finances.

MrsT0514

Black friday or any other holiday shopping has never been my thing, so hearing of stores being forced to open at 6pm on thanksgiving (in turn, forcing their employees to lose out on family time celebrating the holiday) is fucking disgusting to me. Thanksgiving is a day for family...to be together, share a wonderful meal, and be thankful for what we have. Not stand in line, pushing and shoving to get the newest tv on sale.

I think @Mackalien13‌ made an excellent point. Its just downright offensive to me that this has become the norm.

theseaword

I am not a fan of this, but I'm thinking there must be a compelling financial reason for the decision. Brick and mortar stores probably have a hard enough time competing with major online sites that can and do offer deals on Thanksgiving.

ridesbuttons

Malls have provisions in their lease agreements that cover things like hours of operation. This is not new.

As a Canadian I don't get the Black Friday frenzy (though it is creeping across the border) but I don't have an issue with a business making a decision to earn profits. I mean, it's called Black Friday for a reason.

My dad was the GM of a small resort when I was growing up. Holidays were his busiest times. Not once do I remember feeling slighted because we had to have Christmas dinner on a different day than my friends or celebrate Thanksgiving two days early. We spent time together as family and didn't rely on the calendar to determine whether or not it was the 'right' day or time.

As a teenager I worked in a different resort weekends, holidays and over the summers throughout my university days. I always volunteered to work Christmas (for example) to give at least one parent with a young family that day off. I was not alone in my philosophy on that. The fact that I earned time and a half (double time and a half on Christmas Day) made the decision that much easier.

Now, as for the retail culture out there, sigh, I don't get it. You seriously could not pay me to line up, stand in line, get trampled and live in traffic to buy something I don't need anyway. But that's me.