Visits...too often or not enough?

alishakay

I'm curious and at the same time seeking advice. In an open adoption scenario...how often are you seeing the birthparents? How often would you like to see the child if you are a birthparent? How often is too often? How often is not enough? I know it would depend on distance as well for each individual. Our BM wanted to see us every 2 weeks, we tentatively agreed to once a month initially, which has been happening. He is 12 weeks old and we have had 3 visits. Our little guy is not a good traveler, it's a 3 hour round trip visit. Our agency suggested quarterly visits starting the first of the year, although leaving it up to me to tell BM, I'm not sure how to approach the subject, so I wanted to get an idea of how everyone else plans their visits. I definitely don't want to travel during the winter months, and hopefully he will eventually like being in the car (what baby hates a car ride?!). These are my thoughts...5 visits next year, a spring (March) visit (nothing planned at this point), a June visit (baseball game we would like to do traditionally, we went during the pregnancy), an August visit (his birthday), a September visit (zoo trip), and then a December visit (Christmas). Is this not enough? I need help! BM is still going thru the process and fearing we will cut her off altogether. I hate that she feels that way and wish I could ease those fears for her. I don't want this conversation to put that fear into her even more. Although I did mention monthly visits for the next 18 years just not being realistic.

NextChapter24

Hi!- I don't post much as we are still waiting, but I thought I would answer as If I was in your situation. I agree with you once a month just is not realistic. Especially if you work, as weekends are spent bonding with baby, seeing family etc. It seems that it is especially hard that your baby is not a good traveler. I'm not sure how open your arrangement is, but would she be willing to come to your house so he doesn't have to travel?

I think what you have outlined for next years is good but I would be careful to promise anything you do not know you can keep (not that you would!). Good luck with the visits/schedule and congratulations on the baby!

justjinny

I think it's pretty typical for visits to be more frequent at first and then spaced out further as the child grows up.  We were visiting with our son's BM about once every 6 weeks at first, but now we see her more like every 2-3 months.  We are lucky that we live about 30 minutes away, so travel isn't a huge issue, but we still do try to do activities at shared locations like what you've mentioned.  

Would it help if you could find activities closer to your home during the winter months so travel isn't as much of an issue?  I'd caution against meeting at your home if you're not 100% comfortable with that.  Our DS's BM has had a history of inviting others along to visits without telling us, and it was uncomfortable to have a bunch of people we've never met in our home by surprise like that.  It's hard to close off an option like that once you've opened it up.

I don't think I'd want to have a whole year's worth of meetings outlined and it seems like DS's BM also prefers to keep things fluid.  I also could not commit to monthly meetings.  We don't even get to see our close family or friends on a regular basis like that with how hectic things are managing work schedules + an infant (who tend to get sick frequently when first enrolled in daycare by the way).  I would think that if you explained that when you got to talk with your LO's BM next, maybe that would help ease some fears?  That and having tentative plans for the next visit or two (but not as far out as the next 4) might help?

Dr.Loretta

In your situation I don't think it's unrealistic to at least ask of she'll come to you for some of the visits, assuming she has transportation. Or meet halfway.

I somewhat disagree with the pp about pre-planning meetings. IMO that can give the birth family some reassurance that there will be visits. Especially if you're looking to scale back.

In our case, we originally lived 2 hours from DD's birth family, but now live 7 hours away. Per her birth family's wishes, we meet twice a year. Sometimes we wish it was more, by we find other ways to keep in contact

alishakay

Thanks everyone, I'm glad to hear I'm pretty much on the same page as everyone else. She does not have transportation so that is a huge issue and I knew it would be, but at the same time maybe good that she just won't be showing up one day. Her birthmom advocate within our agency mentioned being willing to drive her to my home, we are just uneasy with the idea considering she wants such frequent visits, we don't want to get into a situation where random people are bringing her to visit. Maybe as time goes by we will get more comfortable with that idea. At this point, she really doesn't seem to care what we go thru to make these visits happen, as long as she gets to see the baby. And believe me, a 3 hour car ride with a crying, puking baby is not fun, I'm not trying to be selfish by insinuating she isn't going thru hard times, this is about him being uncomfortable and unhappy.

cvpis4me

We don't agree on any frequency, it just happens whenever we happen to come down that way or maybe if we can all get together during the holidays.  We didn't have any visits the first year.  It was technically an open adoption because we emailed each other directly but that was our only contact.  This year it opened up to visits and we've had 3 so far.  Our birthmom is in school and works, my husband is just getting out of the military and I'm just getting back to work, things are hectic!  I don't think either side could commit to meeting a certain number of times per year.  Besides, we don't do that with our own family and since I think of them as family I treat them the same way. 

bumpuser794640

We have been visiting once a month, but it is only one hour away. Our BM doesn't have transportation, either. It usually works out fine, but I agree that a three hour trip is long. Maybe see if you can cut back to every other month for now.

alishakay

We never agreed or talked about frequency throughout the pregnancy. After the baby came she came up with the every 2 week thing and then after a talk with the agency scaled it back to every 4 weeks. When we get together she always wants us to plan the next meeting. Everything is very detailed oriented with her so she wants a date, place and time. Maybe if would be easier if it were more of a casual thing than something planned, but then again maybe not as we are always busy and wouldn't want it to get passed up all of the time. I send photos daily, if not weekly, so it isn't like there is nothing between visits. Everyone's idea of openess seems to be a little different. We talk on the phone 3-4 times per week, I send pictures often and she wants monthly visits, and you're right, I don't even see my own direct family that often, it's a bit overwhelming.

maryoosa

Ok.
So, we have a 15 mo through DIA.  We also have a paca that is legally incorporated into our adoption decree saying that at our son's birth parents request, we have visits 1x per month for the next 17 years. We visited very frequently in the early months after placement. Like in the first month we had 12 visits. We live between 45 minutes and 90 minutes away from each other depending on traffic. It was honestly brutal. I was exhausted, the baby was exhausted, the grief that his birth parent had was visible, and palpable and pretty much it just sucked I think for everyone but we were all doing the best we could. After about the 4 month mark, it tapered back to 1 or 2 times per month and after about 10 months it was about once a month. We are committed to this and pretty happy with the openness in our adoption. There are bumps, still, mostly around extended birth family  and visiting friends etc., but we work with it and hope our son will benefit from the decisions we make now. When he gets older, he can make decisions about what he thinks is best, in the meantime, we visit, happily with his birth parent.

WishUponAChild

My suggestion would be offer to pay for a train or bus ticket and maybe a cheap motel for her to come and visit you. If you spend 6 hrs of your life driving to see her with a screaming babe maybe the $100 or $200 bucks would be well worth it. You would also have a clean and safe place to meet her at in the hotel room.

Maybe offer this to her 2 or 3 times a year when it is difficult for you to drive to her, and then on the more comfortable times you can come to her.

CarolinaGirl2014

I have avoided replying to this for so long because I was afraid I wouldn't be able to find the right words. My honest opinion is that if you even tentatively agreed to once a month you absolutely need to follow through with that as much as possible. I don't think that jumping immediately from that to quarterly is either fair or appropriate. I really get where you're coming from, but I feel like there has to be some compromise. buying her a bus ticket or cab fare to meet her at a location close to you is a great idea.

Also, I find it offensive to trust someone enough to accept the child they've grown inside of them but not enough to have them in your home, unless there are extenuating circumstances (like they've shown they can't be trusted or have decent judgement). As birth moms, we want to what is best for our child and would never compromise their house. I know it seems that she isn't thoughtful at visitS but she probably doesn't have the capacity to think about entertaining you at visits – they are so precious.

I would suggest talking to her. If you present it as a definitive I can tell you that it is going to wreck her. Chances are it will send her into a tailspin. Sit down with her and explain the problem and detriment to baby then see if you can come up with a compromise like every 6 to 8 weeks.if you give her the option\opinion she will want to help you and it will be easier on her to accept.

I hope this didn't come across as harsh but it's something I'm passionate about and I can only imagine what this would have done to me.

Also, have you already talked to her at this point?

alishakay

I'm not at all offended by your comment. I want to clarify a couple of things though. My husband and I are extremely passionate about adoption, he was adopted himself, however that was 35 years ago with a closed adoption, and he had an amazing life, so although we have been 100% open, it is still unfamiliar territory for both of us. We are committed to this for this child! I also want to make a statement and I think a lot would agree "there is no adoption that is the exact same as another", so what would work for some, or be expected from another, isn't always going to be what's best for every one of us. This every month business was discussed between birthmom and our agency, I was presented this in the middle of a crowded mall on our first visit with a week old baby, no sleep, and a 1 1/2 car ride by myself at 5:30 in the morning, so I barely had time to respond let alone think it through! I'm only looking for outside input, again as this is all new, and I'm trying to not make these important decisions on the spot, if I can gather info it will help me to make a better decision. I feel as if I told everyone here how I truly feel I would 100% offend people, but I can't disregard how I feel right now. I adopted this baby for a lot of reasons, and at no point was walking on eggshells for the next 18 years one of them. I wish I could get into details to slightly make my situation sound better but I don't know that it's worth it. Our agency is making her go through counseling so hopefully this helps her in her grieving process, up to this point I've been her counselor and all I'm trying to do is enjoy being a new mommy! I don't need entertained at our visits, I'm not sure where that came from. I have always had respect for what you post on here @CarolinaGirl2014 and the other BMs that post here, but I disagree that all BMs think and act the same. You seem to be respectful and would be a breath of fresh air to deal with, although I've probably offended you enough that you wouldn't think the same in return:/

oliv0026

alishakay, sorry, I have to jump in here.
first of all, this is supposed to be a support group where we help each other and share experiences. I always felt comfortable and happy to come with my stupid question and always got some good response. im sorry you are being attacked by bm over here. That is not what it is supposed to be. I very much understand where you are coming from and that is why I did not want to go with DIA. I personally cant do it. I did not want to bring this kind of drama into my life. Please, do not feel bad about how you feel, you are being honest. My words of advice to you is: do what is best for YOUR family. You know what is best for your child more than anyone else and your new mom experience should not be any less than the happiest ever.

To the BM s here, im sorry, I love seeing your advices sometimes, but you must understand the AM side too. it is not like you intentionally conceived to give your child to someone else just because you want to be nice and help. Understand that women who cant conceive and go to adoption already suffered with miscarriages, infertility problems, judgment from society and questions like "when are you gonna have a baby? you are getting too old" There is also grief on this side for the fact we dont get to listen to the first heart beat, first move, the magic of birth, the fact that child looks like you, and things like that. All of that is lost and most of times is not by choice at all. These people open up their hearts for adoption because we all want to be parents and love a child no matter what. I have no clue how painful it is to place a baby for adoption, neither ever will, but at the end of the day, this is a choice on your side. It is a choice you make to be able to provide a better life to your child as you believe, but it is a choice.

So please, dont come here and judge people who are struggling and trying hard to find a way to make things work. This woman never said she would stop the visits forever, she is just thinking what is better for her child the same way you think when you decide to go for adoption. I understand it is hard for you and you are sensitive, but so are we.

alishakay

OMG! All I asked was some input on visits so that I could make the best decision for all involved! I may express somethings here for support, but my relationship with the BM involved has been wonderful! I would never directly disrespect her, she knows I love her, and she knows she is a very important person in our lives. I do plan on having a conversation about visits with her, just getting my ducks in a row first, thus me posting here for advice. As she has done an amazing thing for our family, I have done some amazing things in her life as well!

My hesitation about her coming into my home, may very well go away as I stated, he is only 3 months old.

For those that were supportive, thank you, for those that took this somewhere else, I think I'll just remove myself from this "support" group!

cvpis4me

I think perhaps if you just explain that the baby is not coping well with the long car ride she should understand.  Things change, babies get older and maybe in a few months things will be better.  I think the fact that the monthly visits wasn't brought up until after the baby was born is a big deal.  This wasn't presented at the match, you didn't have the opportunity to discuss it with your husband because you were traveling to that meeting alone.  Just let her know you've have time to think about it, time to try out the visits and the frequency just isn't working out right now.  It's nothing personal against her, it's just the situation.  If the monthly visits was that much of a deal-breaker for the adoption she would have asked about it at the match and probably gotten it in writing.  It seems more like an impulsive wish after the baby was born.  I think AP's and BP's all go through the walking-on-eggshells phase in the beginning.  I know I did.  Hopefully in the future you guys will get more comfortable with talking to each other about these kinds of things.

alishakay

My posts may have seemed like problems to you, but for me they were questions seeking advice and support! I'm on this board specifically for that reason, not for you to like me!

alishakay

Thank you for understanding! Yes I do feel as if our agency dropped the ball and I'm trying piece everything together alone. We agreed to a semi-open adoption, it wasn't until after the baby arrived and TPR was signed that BM wanted to change to a fully open adoption. I'm just trying to figure out how to make this work so everyone is happy. And I have to say for those who don't understand my previous postings, the advice and answers I've gotten here have had a positive impact on my relationship with BM.

alishakay

My post states..."BM is still going thru the process and fearing we will cut her off altogether. I hate that she feels that way and wish I could ease those fears for her. I don't want this conversation to put that fear into her even more." I do not feel this sounds selfish! This post is clearly about visits, specifically car rides with an uncomfortable baby. I do not feel selfish wanting my baby to not cry or throw up due to traveling! I never once said I was cutting this woman out of our lives! I may have said something that sounded selfish, but that's not what this post was about, and I am human! I will take away from this the positive suggestions, meeting half way, a bus or train ticket, etc., but I will also take away the negativity, thank you for that!

oliv0026

This is just ridiculous. Here is my suggestions, again. Like every mom that loves your child, do what is best for him and the rest is rest. Nothing should be more important than you child that you probably have desired for so long. If that is being selfish, im sorry, too bad. I will always do whatever is best for my child. If the best for him is to see the BM everyday, that will be it. If the best for him is to visit every quarter or year or whatever, that is what will happen.
I also want to say, you wont make everyone happy no matter what decision you make. Non of us can make everyone happy, even Jesus couldn't. He tried and we killed Him. That is why I say your child should be the main focus because ni matter what you decide, someone will not be 100% happy.

MagickalNarwhal

Yes, you do what is best for your child. To me, that means having an HONEST, RESPECTFUL relationship with the person/people who's blood is coursing through that kids veins. I look at my kids every day and see their birth parents. Literally. I think about them daily, most days multiple times. I love my kids more than anything I've ever loved in my entire life. And they are MADE from these people - so there's no way that I can love my kids and not also feel the need to be honest, open, ethical and considerate.

When I'm having the kinds of questions come up that you seem to be facing, I ask myself how the conversation with my future, grown up kids would go. How would I feel looking them in the eye and saying, oh yeah, we agreed to monthly visits but then I decided I didn't really want to drive in the winter so we changed the plan. Could you honestly tell you child that and feel confident and good about that conversation? I'm honestly asking you to consider that - that's not a rhetorical question.

Also I have to agree that your agency completely dropped the ball and it's INSANELY unethical of them to have dealt with it like that and to tell you to tell this woman that the plans have changed.

And, finally, I agree that this is partially a support board (for EVERYONE in the adoption constellation) but it's also a reality check board, an ethical compass board, a let's-make-our-own-maps-up-because-we-don't-already-have-a-lot-to-follow board. Carolina girls post was ABSOLUTELY not attacking in any way. She was very gentle and very honest and I would sincerely hope that you could hear what she is saying. You asked a question and she answered it, and bookworm followed up with a very honest, vulnerable, non-attacking post as well. If you truly see these women as attacking you, then I think you really truly need to examine where that defensiveness is coming from because it will not serve you well, it certainly won't serve your kids birth parent(s) well and ultimately and most importantly, it absolutely will not serve your kid well.

alishakay

Did I say anything about attacking?!

MagickalNarwhal

This is where I got that, but I did conflate your response with the other poster a bit too:

"For those that were supportive, thank you, for those that took this somewhere else, I think I'll just remove myself from this "support" group!"

justjinny

I guess I'm the odd one out here, but I don't think it's reasonable to be held to a visitation schedule if it's not working out for both parties involved.  I am in no way advocating to completely cut off contact or drastically reduce the number of visits in a year.  But everyone should understand that relationships develop and change over time - so what you're doing now will not be the same as 1, 5 or 18 years from now. I don't see how being open and honest in a discussion with your LO's BM about the reasons and changes you need to make to the schedule is out of line or disrespectful.

It's also good to remember that it's important for your LO to stay in contact with their birthfamily.  When your LO grows up, they'll be able to have more say in how much they want visits or other contact.  For now though, when they're little and can't speak for themselves, it's important that you keep trying at the relationship so it's there if/when your LO needs it. 

Also, I thought I should address the issue of opening up your home to visits, since I brought it up in my earlier post.  Maybe it's a level of openness that's ok with you, or maybe something you'll grow into, but it's not something to just put out there without real consideration.  I didn't mean to offend anyone or come across disrespectful to BM's/EM's in general - I just know for my certain set of circumstances that we tried it, it didn't really work for us, and now it's expected to be an option even though we're actually not fully comfortable with it.  Like you, our level of openness has grown since we were originally matched, so it's not like we had everything figured out before jumping into this! 

I feel bad that some of the PP's came across negatively towards your question, since I'd like to believe you are just trying your best at navigating your new situation. It's hard, no one's perfect, and we're all learning how to make it work as we go along. 

Just an honest question for you - have you done much reading on open adoptions in general? I don't think it's common for agencies to offer much guidance after placement, so you might have more luck learning from the experiences and ideas in books on open adoptions.  It seems to me like there's always something new to learn at each stage in the adoption process and that doesn't just end at placement.

alishakay

You have all brought me to tears today! I never said I would only do quarterly. I simply asked a question. My agency suggested quarterly. And again I never agreed to monthly, even though I continued doing monthly after our first visit at the mall, which I mentioned, we just haven't had the conversation about ongoing visits. I have never not been honest with BM, I was seeking advice before having this conversation with her. I don't need a wake up call, I know how I'm raising this child. I never said I wouldn't allow her in my home ever, it's just part of the conversation I'll have with her when we discuss these boundaries. I need to know that she respects me as well when it comes to this. I have taken this child to her work and to her doctors offices for her to show him off, I have taken him to jcpenneys and let her take professional pictures with him, we have went to the zoo, we are going next month to her apartment for a christmas exchange, I send pictures daily, none of this is because I want to shut her out of my life!