NWMR: To CIO or not, that is the question

MickeyM04

I am in unchartered territory here and totally clueless about what to do.

DS was always a horrendous, HORRENDOUS sleeper.  But at 5 months, he magically just started STTN by himself.  Amazing.  To this day it still shocks me.

DD has always been a much better sleeper.  Rarely up more than one time per night for about 10-15 minutes, then back down after some boob.  At 3 months she started STTN every night, and then she hit the 4 month wakeful and was up 2-3 times a night for a month or so, and then ever since has been up once a night, times completely varied, eats for about 10 minutes and then goes back down no problem.

At her 6 month appointment, her doctor told me I have to cut it out on the MOTN feedings; said I'm going to train her brain to get hungry at the times that she usually eats, and then she will wake up hungry and need to eat.  Said better to nip it in the bud now before it becomes an issue.  This is a very good, nurturing ped that I trust, the same one that told me to make sure not to let her go more than 3 hours at night without eating until she was 10 pounds (which was when she was 2.5 months old, so clearly this woman is not of the mindset that I should starve my child).  I do trust her that DD probably does not need to be eating in the MOTN anymore.  That being said, she still wakes up once a night, works herself up into a tizzy, and then eats and goes down no problem.

I'm on the fence.  Doctor says it's time to CIO.  I'm a) not entirely convinced that she won't figure out how to STTN by herself, since she's done it before and my crappy sleeper DS did it on his own, b) not entirely annoyed enough to do CIO since she's up once a night for 10 minutes and it doesn't really bother me, c) not really wanting to let her CIO, considering she is a SUPER easy baby, never cries, and literally this one nighttime feeding is the ONLY time she ever cries/fusses.  So I feel like how big of a dick am I if the ONE time she needs me, I let her cry.

That being said, I can promise you, just me personally, no judgment for anyone who feels differently, that I will not be getting up in the middle of the night and giving my 10 or 11 month old boob or a bottle.  So basically I have no idea what to do other than that I know I don't want to be doing what I'm doing 3 months from now, even if it is easy to just feed her and put her down 10 minutes later.

Advice?  Stories?  Recommendations?  I am not averse to CIO in general, I just don't feel "ready," yet.  

*sparky*

A 6-month-old BF baby is not necessarily ready to STTN.  Whether it is to refill her tummy or just to make sure Mommy is still close by, it is not unusual for them to still be waking up at least once a night at this point.

I would not give it up until it is a problem for you or until your DD really seems to not need the MOTN feeding anymore, as in she wakes up, lazy nurses for a few seconds, and conks back out.  In the meantime, I think this is an area where parents have the right to ignore their Ped's advice and do what works for them.

My DS woke once a night well past 6 months and stopped when he was ready.  My current 6-month-old is a horrible sleeper and is up 3+ times a night - that is something we are working on.  But if she were waking once I would be fucking thrilled.

momofcatan

I'll give you my two cents. I think your Dr is on crack with the "training her to be hungry". We never followed any one sleep training method and did what we thought would work for our family. I did CIO with DD because there were multiple wake-ups from 4-6 months (when we then decided to CIO). DD still woke up to eat once every night after that, moving it later and later until she dropped it on her own around 10 months. For me it was way easier to just feed her once and get back to sleep. If she had not been moving it later on her own I might have been more inclined to cut it out for her.

In your shoes I would not be CIO at this point. Sounds like she is a great sleeper. I would give her until at least 7 or 8 months. I might consider comforting without nursing before straight CIO.

MickeyM04

@*sparky* - How old was your DS when he stopped waking up?  It is good to know that it's possible for them to still do it on their own after 6 months.  I have always read that 6 months is the "magic number" when all the habits start to form - paci, MOTN feedings, etc. etc. so I felt like if she didn't give up the feeding soon, we were damned to have her still get up at 7, 8, 9, 10, etc. months.  You are totally right that once a night is not bad at all (3 times?!  You poor thing!), it's more just a matter of principle and not wanting to be getting up one time a night with my 18 month old to feed her.  I know, I'm totally catastrophizing by taking it out that far, but that's what I do.  When she needed to be held to sleep until she was 3 weeks old, I was convinced I would be co-sleeping with my 4 year old.  I guess I'm just wondering what the threshold is where I'm going to have a hard time stopping it if I want to stop it.  

2chatter

I will share my experience: DS nursed roughly every two hours through the night until 12 months. He was unique; he reverse cycled AND ate like a maniac during the day. I could pump 8 ounces in the middle of the night if he slept through a feeding, so I know he was eating a lot.  By around 14 months it tapered off and then we did CIO for MOTN feedings and he STTN. Our ped was adamant that I could just let him cry and was of the opinion that, if forced, he would cease to reverse cycle.  Forcing sort of defeated part of the purpose of BF for me.   

You have to do what works for you; it might be that you CIO at 9 months or 11 months.  I don't buy into the notion that you are training anything now; right now you are letting nature run its course and meeting his needs on demand.  You might switch that up and train him to sleep, but I don't think there's a magic number like your ped seems to believe.  Do it when it's comfortable for you.

Amelia4

Full disclosure: I never did CIO and I never denied food in the middle of the night.  I'm a big believer that kids, especially at 6 months of age, simply need their needs met.  And if that means wake up once a night for 10 minutes to feed, that's fine with me.  My 3 year old has slept through the night off and on, but more off than on.  

It sounds like you don't mind the feed now, but you will in three months.  I'd keep doing it until you mind, then tackle it at that point, if needed. Maybe in a month she starts to STTN on her own.  Maybe you CIO in two or three months.  Maybe you decide to CIO now.  Maybe you do a different method.  I'd look into your options (CIO, modified CIO, sleep lady shuffle, etc.), figure out what you and SO are comfortable with, and then implement that plan when you are ready.  

I think this goes to parenting advice, not medical advice, and I listen, then often ignore, my pediatrician on parenting advice matters.  

NicoleWI

What's wrong with your doctor? That's crazy advice. No.

mlee116

Amelia4 said:

Full disclosure: I never did CIO and I never denied food in the middle of the night.  I'm a big believer that kids, especially at 6 months of age, simply need their needs met.  And if that means wake up once a night for 10 minutes to feed, that's fine with me.  My 3 year old has slept through the night off and on, but more off than on.  

It sounds like you don't mind the feed now, but you will in three months.  I'd keep doing it until you mind, then tackle it at that point, if needed. Maybe in a month she starts to STTN on her own.  Maybe you CIO in two or three months.  Maybe you decide to CIO now.  Maybe you do a different method.  I'd look into your options (CIO, modified CIO, sleep lady shuffle, etc.), figure out what you and SO are comfortable with, and then implement that plan when you are ready.  

I think this goes to parenting advice, not medical advice, and I listen, then often ignore, my pediatrician on parenting advice matters.  

I agree with this.  Waking up once at 6 months sounds normal to me and I would've been happy with that when DS was that age.  He woke up at least 2-3x a night until he was 11 months, but he hardly ate during the day and was reverse cycling and I felt like he needed the extra calories.

I'd wait and see what she does.  It sounds like you are ok with the current arrangement and so is she.  She might drop the last MOTN feeding on her own soon especially once she starts solids, eliminating the need for CIO altogether.  If by 9 or 10 months she's still waking up and you aren't happy with it, then you explore some different tactics then.

*sparky*

Honestly I can't remember because he is 9 now, but it was definitely before he was a year because i had stopped BFing entirely before then.

jlaOK

Both my kids were still eating once a night at 6 months.  They both STTN around 6-7 months.  I would still get up and feed if you feel that your DD is really hungry.  FWIW we let both DS and DD CIO when we put them down (i.e. didn't rock or pat them to sleep).  I was/am fine with CIO when I know that they aren't hungry/needing changed etc.

rubber_chicken

Have you tried a dreamfeed?  This was the only way we were able to cut out DD's middle-of-the-night feedings.  She went to bed at like 6:30 or 7 (I don't exactly remember!) and then we'd pick her up at 10 (right before we went to bed) and gave her a bottle - most times she didn't fully wake for it, hence the "dream feed".  The times she did wake, we changed her and were able to get her down after the bottle easily.  This worked like magic for us.

ETA: We did do Ferber at 6 months, since she was impossible to put to bed at that time.  We'd rock and feed and read a book, and then put her down. We went in every 3 minutes (never stretched it out) and it worked in 3 nights.  We had to redo it every time she got a tooth. But between Ferber and the dream feed, she was mostly STTN by 7 months. 

djm31012

For me personally, 6 months is young. We did CIO around 8/9 mos and were VERY lucky that it only took a couple of nights. I know that it totally sucks to wake up in the middle of the night, especially when having to work the next day....but give it a little more time before CIO if you can. My dr has been telling me to drop the bottle and paci since 12 mos. DS loved his morning and bed time bottle and I just couldnt bear to take it away. Well about a month ago he dropped it on his own at 19 months, no tears and we are all happy. We are still using the paci and I am not taking it away at any point soon. They do everything in their own time.

Katelobster

I think nursing once per night is totally appropriate at that age.

I would understand what your ped's deal was if it was multiple times a night. My kid went through a growth spurt at 5 months and started nursing 4 times a night... and then was still doing it 3 months later because it turned into habit. THAT required some intervention. But I think once is normal.

aglenn

Well, my kids (DD especially) sucked at sleep, so I am probably not the best to offer advice.  However, what I learned in the course of it all is that each child is very individual when it comes to sleep and there are very unrealistic expectations out there among pediatricians, parenting books, etc.  Not all kids are ready to STTN at 6 months.  There is no magical transformation that occurs at that age and makes that happen.  Perhaps a lot of kids do hit that milestone by then, but far from all.  If you are not worried about it there is no reason to push an arbitrary deadline on your child.  It will all happen in due time.

MickeyM04

Thanks everyone for your input. It's very hard to figure out what is "right." I know there is no right or wrong but you obviously want to do what is best for your LO and for you. She goes down awake no problem. We put her to bed every night roughly between 7 and 7:15. We have a solid bedtime routine and after she eats, I put her down awake and she dozes off no problem. No fussing or crying. Just a little babbling. Occasionally she wakes up around 9 or 10 and babbles a bit and goes back to sleep. But if she wakes up after 1:00, she fusses and fusses until she is all out crying. Then I will usually give it 10 minutes to see if she can work it out, and if not I will feed her. Some nights she wakes up at 1:30, others 2:30, others 3:30. 3 nights last week she STTN. So it's hard for me to figure out if she needs to eat or not. Because she has STTN which makes me think she CAN go from 7pm to 6am without eating, but like last night she was up at 1:30 and wouldn't calm down until she ate. And some nights she goes as late as 3:30 before she wakes up so when she wakes up at 1:30, I'm like, shouldn't she be able to make it a couple more hours?

The kicker is, she goes down awake for naps and bedtime and after the MOTN feeding with virtually no problem. I thought CIO was to teach self soothing basically, like how to fall asleep on their own. Well, she does that. So then when she wakes up and can't go back down, I assume she's actually hungry. But when last week she could go all night without eating, why this week is she needing to eat at 1:30? I know babies are totally random creatures but it just makes the decision making hard. If she was never self soothing I would say she just needs to CIO and learn. If she was waking up at the same time to eat and never STTN I would say obviously she can't go more than X hours without eating.

I guess it just comes down to if it's not bothering me yet, don't worry about it, and there is still a good chance it will work itself out.

shakinros

Based on your last comment, I think she might just be hungry. She obv won't starve if you cut out the night feeding but I'd keep on with it awhile longer. Some nights she probably just needs more calories or didn't eat so well during the day or something.

Grain of salt though - my DD got a MOTN bottle until she was 13mos old when I decided I could take no more of this 230/3am feeding. It was pretty easy to wean her off of it but shortly thereafter she started waking up for the day between 430 and 5am, ready to eat. She's always been a big kid and she just plain eats a lot. In hindsight, getting up for the day then was definitely the worse of two evils for me. I might've been happier giving her a bottle for a few more months. Stupid hindsight.

jtmomma13

I think she sounds like a great sleeper! ESP if she is falling asleep on her own. If you think she's waking out of habit- then try and sooth first before feeding. But I am also a believer that some babies need MOTN feedings.

My LO had a MOTN feeding until about a year. I started to try and soothe and give bottle last but he would flip until he got a bottle. So that made me think he was hungry. At a little over a year he stopped needing the bottle. He still wakes up on some nights- more often than not but he just wants to be held.

traveltheworld

I used CIO to get DS to learn to fall asleep on his own at 5 months and cut out two of his 3 MOTN feedings at 7 months. But I felt that he was genuinely hungry in the middle of the night because like your DD, he'd just eat and fall back asleep easily. So I kept 1 MOTN feeding until he gave it up on his own at 10 months.

[Deleted User]

You've gotten some great advice. Pediatricians kind of suck at this type of advice, especially older ones.

Go with your instincts, if baby is hungry- feed. Six months is ridiculously early for this advice.

momofcatan

I read something that said if the wake up times are random than it is actual hunger. If she was waking up at the exact same time every night it would be a "habit". It sounds like she is getting into the swing of things on her own.