ISWTE believers (*losses briefly mentioned*)

IfMamaAintHappy

For all of you who have read It Starts with the Egg and have followed the recommendations in the book:  I unfortunately didn't read this book until about 6 weeks before my ER.  I had already implemented the BPA free lifestyle (as much as practicable) months ago after reading Coming to Term (book about recurrent miscarriages), but only started DHEA and CoQ10 (with my RE's consent) 5.5 weeks before RE.  I took them religiously, along with all other supplements, the entire time up to ER.  I'm continuing to take them as I'm going to have to do another round of IVF.  Based on my epic IVF failure, they seemingly did not help my egg quality.  I know the minimum amount of time recommended for DHEA is 6 weeks leading up to IVF. 

 

My questions are:  how long did you take the supplements prior to ER?  What other supplements are you taking?  What other lifestyle changes did you make?

You can see my history of losses in my siggy (I'm 35 w/ borderline DOR, 4 losses, 1 failed IVF for those mobile).  I regularly take methylfolate (hetero MTHFR), methylcobalimin (B12), Omega 3, Vit D, probiotic, DHEA, and CoQ10.  My thyroid is monitored every 3 months and is perfect (Hashi's).  I am otherwise very healthy  and in shape.  I exercise regularly and practice yoga.  I did everything I could leading up to ER (yoga, acupuncture, supplements, cut out alcohol) to no avail. 

Any other thoughts or suggestions welcome.  My WTF appt is next Friday.  The lab director/embryologist called me this morning and walked me through what happened and why he thoughts my 2 embryos arrested around day 3 (chromosomal defect was his best guess).  So it's going back to egg quality... 

IfMamaAintHappy

Thanks for your response @lemonliz.  I'd be interested to know your updated results.  Hopefully 2.5 months of supplementation will be helpful for you. 

I read here last night about embryos arresting after day 3 and the implication of sperm quality, but the embryologist told me this morning that he could see that they never made the genetic shift from relying on egg energy to using sperm input.  I will seek clarification from them at my WTF appt, but that sounded like the issue here was my egg and not DH's sperm. 

 

Carol77B

*Loss mentioned*

 

I read it for the first time after my loss in July, and implemented the changes (along with a strict diet, that closely follows the recommendations in the book) on 1 Aug. When I had my b/w and baseline u/s redone in mid-Sept, it was almost a year after my original testing. My AFC went from 12 to 16, my AHM went from 1.4 to 1.7 and my FSH went from 10.1 to 6.7. It wasn't until recently that I found out that my original numbers were on the low side, since I was originally told everything was fine. My weight was about the same for both tests (I put on all the weight with the IVF cycles and stress-eating, etc.)

I did start taking DHEA and CoQ10 at my RE's recommendation in Feb, right before IVF#2 (horrible failure) but I switched to the better grade/type of both recommended in the book in Aug. Based on the book, I've added: Vitamin D, Vitamin E, N-acetyl cysteine, sporadic Melatonin (will do it regularly when I'm starting IVF #3), B-12, and I checked to see if my prenatal matched up with the brand she recommends (it does). Additionally, I've recently added DHA and a probiotic. I added the DHA, because I saw in my clinic record that they recommended it along with the DHEA and the CoQ10 (which was news to me). Also, the prenatal recommended by ISWTE has DHA, and mine doesn't, so I figured it would be a good idea to add. The probiotic is because I've been reading a lot about bad bacteria in the gut having a huge impact on health.

Additionally, as of Aug 1, at home, because of the book, I stopped using plastic food storage containers, cups, or utensils. I drink a ton of water out of my glass water bottle. I am trying to eliminate my exposure to parabens and phylates, so no perfume, limited nail polish, and I switched my shampoo, conditioner, body soap, hand soap, facial clothes, lip baum, and toothpaste and switched out the dish soap (for hand washing dishes and the dishwasher) and dryer sheets. I can't bring myself to switch deodorants or give up make-up and with our high efficiency washer having trouble washing (I miss the old inefficient ones!), I am reluctant to switch laundry detergents.

I can't get my husband to follow the book, but he benefits from some of the household switches I've implemented. He refuses to give up plastic containers for his lunch, though, because he takes his lunch in his backpack to work and it's too heavy/breakable for his commute (bikes and Metros). 

In addition to the above, I see an acupuncturist that specializes in infertility, and, just for funsies, I just started oil pulling with coconut oil (@Justone13 told me about it). I also ordered the Circle and Bloom IVF meditation set based on @RunCC37recommendations and will be starting that right before IVF #4.

I truly believe that following the book has made all the difference and I feel more optimistic about IVF #4 than I did about IVF #2 and IVF #3. And because of the changes I've seen with those lifestyle and supplement changes, I'm more open to other alternative recommendations, since I'm committed to ensuring I've done absolutely everything possible to get the best possible outcome. I just wish I had read the book before I started IVF (it wasn't released until March 2014).        

My RE doesn't want to give any credit for the improvements to my levels to the supplement/lifestyle changes, (he didn't think it would help or harm and just told me he wants me to stop the supplements when I start stimming) but I think the improvements speak for themselves!

ETA: I'm also taking Vitamin C based on ISWTE.

RunCC37

@Carol77B - let me know how you like the C+B

Justone13

Hi there!! So yes I read the book and made pretty much all the changes minus adding DHEA. I started taking it but then stopped after I read some conflicting info on it and didn't get AF for 50 days. I think it might have been related. I'm pretty much chemical free, bpa free, caffeine free. I've been a vegetarian for 17 years so the meat wasn't an issue to give up. I'm trying to follow the Mediterranean diet as much as possible. I take melatonin every night since starting stims. No soy and limited dairy no processed food. I'm doing a lupron stop protocol this time. So far so good. This is the most follies they have ever seen on me and highest e2 level at the clinic. I go for my er on Thursday. I'll update you with my results. I have crappy immature eggs that don't want to fertilize normally. So hopefully every change has helped.

Eta I read it in July and made the changes then.

emmuffy

I read ISWTE just before my first IVF cycle, so I don't think any changes I made at that time had any chance to take effect. I've since re-read the book and made some real changes including eliminating BPA (no more cans or plastic in my kitchen) and phtalates (switched to fragrance free options for hair, soap, deodorant lotion, etc). I also started taking DHEA in the recommendation of an RE I consulted for a second opinion, although I dropped CoQ10 because he indicated they couldn't be taken together, and the COQ10 did not seem to have helped me at all on my previous cycle. In addition, I take a prenatal, vitamins c, d, and e, and melatonin at night (the melatonin is also new, and based on the book). I haven't really made any other dietary changes, other than switching to organics for some products such as berries. Why are some of you limiting dairy? Was that mentioned in the book? I am currently reading the Infertility Cure on the recommendation of a friend, and while I don't care for the book nearly as much, it did recommend getting rid of dairy, although I'm not sure why. I'm curious as to what you are all doing for foods like hummus and yogurt that usually come in plastic containers - are you avoiding these products? Has anyone been tested for Celiac? I'm going to try to get tested based on what is in the book. I think my RE will think I'm nuts, but I don't want to leave any stone unturned. I'm also adding Saizen (HGH) to my next IVF protocol, which is also thought to help with egg quality.

Carol77B

@emmuffy I was tested for Celiac disease a couple of years ago when I had elevated liver counts (it turned out to be an antibiotic I was taking for acne!) If I hadn't already been tested, I would have it tested now, based on the book. What about your thyroid? Have you had that checked? I'm mildly hypothyroid and on low dose levothyroxine, but the link between thyroid problems and fertility and m/c is strong and is something I was aware of before reading the book, so was grateful to know that that shouldn't be a factor for me.

I'm not happy about foods that come in plastic, but as long as I'm not having to heat them in it, I'm okay with it, because it appears to be the high heat (from heating or washing in the dishwasher) that causes them to breakdown and release toxins.   

I tried reading the "Infertility Cure," too, but it actually recommends some of the very things ISWTE cautions against (Royal Jelly, L-Arginine). Also, I found it really hard to self-diagnosis for the treatment plans. It does recommend doing massage to increase blood flow to the uterus and I had my acupuncturist show me how to do it, but I haven't been practicing that very much.  

emmuffy

@Carol77B‌ yes I was totally unable to figure out what category I would fit to. It seemed I had maybe 1 or 2 issues from each category, so it wasn't clear what recommendations I should follow. I think the thyroid testing is standard at my clinic and for what I know, it has been normal.

IfMamaAintHappy

Thanks for responding everyone.  I would love to hear updates on this thread as you have them. It's all so very interesting.  I also didn't realize until this week that ISWTE just came out this year. 

RunCC37

I read the book and made some changes:

• Reduce BPA exposure in my home (no more plastic in my kitchen, cloth shower liner).
• Switched over to phthalate-free beauty products.
• Supplements: CoQ10 (continued from Oct '13), DHEA, Vitamin D & E, Fish Oil (recommended by Dr. KK on 9/29).

Then I moved onto donor eggs - HAHA! Even though I'm over my ovaries (or my OVERies as I like to call them), I am glad to have made these simple changes because they seem to be helping my overall health.

Dr. KK also recommended a low-carb diet for me. I saw a nutritionist who then recommended gluten-free/dairy-free on top of it. I admit that this is the change that has been the hardest for me. But I am doing it all with the hopes that it adds up to a Tiny Turkey Ninja soon

CRMhoney

I am slowly making my way through the book. I don't have a ton of time to read these days. I have started with a trainer and adopted a low-glycemic diet. I am still taking my prenatal. A few questions:

1. Do I stop or continue pre natal for the next 90 days?

2. Do I take extra mg. of folic acid besides whats in my prenatal? 

3. What brand of DHEA and CoQ10 do I buy? 

4. Have any of you gotten new cookware? Does it say anything about teflon/non stick stuff? 

5. What beauty products do you now use? i.e.: soap, shampoo, makeup. 

6. Melatonin, does it make you sleepy? 

7. Are ziplock bags bad? I can't see giving those up. 

I have eliminated all BPA in my kitchen. Just bought all new set of pyrex glass storage containers. Try my best to buy that I can in glass...next to impossible. I do not eat processed foods if I can avoid it. I buy almost all organic or natural. I avoid candy/sweets and refined sugars...halloween is KILLING me! I have cut my anti-depressant dose in 1/2. Its not feasible to stop taking it.  

There is so much to remember I find myself stressing out. Thanks in advance to anyone who can answer my questions. 

^:)^

mariana81

CRMhoney good questions, I have been thinking the same!!!

Justone13

@CRMhoney‌ I still take my prenatal and take the vita fusion c0q10 gummies. The book said if you use a normal c0q10 that you should increase your dose or you can buy a pharmacy grade one that is better. I think it all works out the same. I take the coq10 in the am when I wake up because it gives you energy.

Be careful with the DHEA. Ask your doctor to test you before you start this. You might not need it. I started taking it but discontinued after I read some conflicting info on it and didn't have AF for 50 days. I'm not sure if that was the cause but I wasn't taking chances. My dr never tested me but said I could take it.

I did not change my cookware. But I do have pots and pans that are just metal that I use also.

I switched to method for all my hand soap and body wash. Natural toothpaste by toms. I still use my normal bare minerals makeup. I also use vinegar and baking soda for as much cleaning as I can. But also use method cleaning products. They have awesome scents and it gets the job done without the chemicals. I even use their laundry detergent for HE washers and dish tablets for the dish washer.

Melatonin makes me very sleepy so only take it before you go to bed. I sleep like the dead while taking it and fall asleep within 10 minute. It's awesome. I just bought the target brand.

I still use zip lock bags when I have to. The bpa that is released is only from heating the plastic or washing, cutting or reusing it. (From what I read) so I think it's ok to use in moderation.

In other news my er was today. I made these changes back in July. I retrieved 28 eggs today. That is the highest I have ever had. I get my fert report tomorrow and will update to see if everything helped.

Carol77B

@CRMhoney I'm currently reading it for the third time (and have been following it since 1 Aug) so I can help with some of those questions:

1. Do I stop or continue pre natal for the next 90 days?

You definitely continue with your prenatal. However, you may want to consider switching brands. I compared my current one with a brand she recommended and was comfortable I was getting enough of the stuff. Mine (I can't remember the name) claims to be organic, etc. and I bought it in an organic market, so feel pretty comfortable with it.

 

2. Do I take extra mg. of folic acid besides whats in my prenatal? 

My RE prescribed me Folgard before my last IVF, which is high strength folic acid, so I would consider adding additional folic acid to your prenatal. I don't know how much is in Folgard, but you could probably Google it. She doesn't mention adding high strength folic acid, which I found interesting, since it is something my clinic does and I remember reading an article linking it to better outcomes. 

 

3. What brand of DHEA and CoQ10 do I buy? 

Based on the book, I went with Jarrow Formulas Ubiquinol QH-Absorb, 100 mg, 120 Count, I take three. And Pure Encapsulations DHEA 25 mg 180 vcaps     I got mine from Amazon.com.

 

4. Have any of you gotten new cookware? Does it say anything about teflon/non stick stuff? 

I don't think the author mentions Teflon, but she references the Environmental Working Group (EWG) and they are really concerned with Teflon/non-stick cookware and I've avoided using mine since I read about it. At some point I would like to buy new, but mine are less than two years old, so it's hard to justify the expense to my husband who thinks I'm overreacting with a lot of these changes. I've switched to only heating things in glass and ceramic in the microwave and in the oven instead of a frying pan.

 

5. What beauty products do you now use? i.e.: soap, shampoo, makeup. 

I went to the organic aisle in Target and bought soap, shampoo, conditioner, lotion and facial cleansing clothes from Burt's Bee's, Alba and Say Yes to... brands. I did not switch my makeup, but I am not wearing it as often and am trying to avoid nail polish, hair spray, gels, perfume, etc. as much as possible. I also bought the Seven Generation brand of hand soap, dish soap, dishwashing detergent, cleaning wipes and a natural dryer sheets. The cleaning wipes smell awful so I need to get a spray cleaner or something else to try to use to do quick cleaning.  

 

6. Melatonin, does it make you sleepy?

If I don't take it early enough before bed it does make me a little sleepy the next day. The book doesn't recommend you start it until you start the stimming meds, but I've sporadically taken the 3mg (dose recommended in the book) and more frequently the 1 mg dose, since I wasn't worried about it effecting my ovulation. I'll start the 3mg regularly when I do start stimming.

 

7. Are ziplock bags bad? I can't see giving those up.

Neither the book nor the EWG mention ziplock bags, from what I read. I did switch out my makeup bag in my purse to a cloth from vinyl.

 

I hope this helps. I'm a total convert to ISWTE and excited to see others trying the recommendations!

obizyanka

i have not read the book, but just on my own have started to switch out my chemical products for more natural ones. For make up I use the brands tarte and the balm. They are both chemical free no parabins no animal tests Etc

emmuffy

I gave up non stick cookware. I'm not sure if the book mentioned it, but I am concerned about the chemicals leaching out. I have a huge inventory of Pyrex at this point - it is possible to give up plastic baggies. The book indicates that bpa is bad but that many plastics contain other endocrine disrupters, which should be avoided where possible. I am using kiss my face, Burt's bees, neutrogena, and fragrance free aveeno products. I refuse to give up my mascara. We all have something we can't live without! I have not found that melatonin makes me sleepy or that DHEA makes me more wakeful.

CRMhoney

@justone13 @carol77b A million heartfelt thank-you's for your responses!! I have been toying with the idea of giving up my laundry detergent, dish liquid and tub cleaner.  I can't give up bleach or hardcore floor cleaner as I have a VERY messy english bulldog who tracks in god knows what from the NYC streets. I am glad you like the seventh gen. and method brands..Both are available at my local drugstore. 

@justone13 Hooray for 28!!!! I hope you are feeling good tonight! I can't wait to hear about your fert report!! FX and prayers your way! 

@emmuffy I totally agree with you about the mascara!! lol. I use Givenchy and refuse to give it up! 

@obizyanka Tarte is so fun! I had no clue it was chemical free. yay!

Carol77B

@lemonliz when are you taking Synthroid? I take a low dose in the morning and most of my supplements with dinner (so 7 or 8 p.m.) and I take my multivitamin at bedtime, so it doesn't interfere with my thyroid med. I was last tested after starting the drugstore versions of CoQ10 and DHEA, but hadn't seen my endocrinologist since I switched to the recommended versions/brands and added the additional supplements. I actually see mine on Tuesday, so it will be interesting to see if there is an effect on my levels.

Are you figuring there is a problem because of how you are feeling? Or are you seeing a difference in your blood tests?

Carol77B

@lemonliz I'm really jealous! I don't get hyped up from any of the supplements! I don't think there is supposed to be an interaction between the Synthroid and CoQ10, so what if you tried taking it with breakfast?

emmuffy

Needing some input from you ladies. My IVF cycle was in September and it didn't go well - 8R, 5M, 3F, 1 morula to transfer on day 5, BFN. I only read ISWTE a few weeks before my ER and didn't have much time to put it into practice. After my BFN, my RE said I have an egg quality problem. I was disappointed with my BFN and gave myself a month off from all supplements and efforts to be healthy - think lots of canned diet pop, wine, junk food, etc. I wasn't sure I wanted to keep trying. Then I got an encouraging second opinion and started to think more seriously about trying again. In about mid-October, I went back on supplements, purged my kitchen of plastics, stopped consuming anything that came in a can, and eliminated all fragranced products that might contain phthalates. I had been thinking of maybe cycling in January, which would give me about three months to get myself into good shape. However, now I'm considering whether to perhaps cycle in December. I'm really impatient and it's hard to wait so long to try again. On the other hand, I'm worried that December is too early and it won't give me enough time for the lifestyle changes to truly take effect. What do you think? Would you delay trying for at least three months? How long are will you have been following the ISWTE principles before commencing your IVF cycle?

CRMhoney

I just started implementing supplement protocols last a few days ago and have removed all bpa and phthalates a few weeks ago. I also started low glycemic diet and regular exercise. I am waiting until January to do ER and ET will be in Feb. (no fresh due to PGS). I want to give myself the most time I can (I'm sooooo impatient) to get my body in order to have the best chance for good embies. At 20K a pop and fast approaching 34, I need to chill and remind myself that this could be it for us. 

Carol77B

@emmuffy‌ I implemented the majority of my changes on 1 Aug. and while I was cleared to cycle again in Oct., I told my RE I didn't want to cycle again until Nov, because I wanted to give my diet, supplements, lifestyle changes more time to take effect. I would prefer Dec, but because they close the surgical center for two weeks to do sterilization in Dec (I never did get told which two weeks) Dec is tricky, and I was too impatient to wait until Jan.

FWIW- I saw big improvements in my numbers from my initial testing (10-2013) when I was retested in mid-Sept, after only approximately six weeks of following ISWTE, which encouraged me to stick with it and to follow it for a long as possible before my next IVF cycle. So I think you will get benefits from a shorter duration, if you are eager to try again.

Good luck!

IfMamaAintHappy

@lemonliz my endo told me not to take Synthroid at the same time as any mineral supplements.  And to take it first thing in the morning at least 45 minutes before eating anything.  It's a real pain but I do take my allergy medicines with it with no effect on my levels.  I've been staggering my DHEA and CoQ10 for late morning and lunch time to get them all in and not interfere with the Synthroid.  I take the rest before bedtime.  It's very annoying to be mindful of it, but I try my best. 

Justone13

@IfMamaAintHappy‌ hey lady! I just wanted to come back and give you an update on how my cycle went as promised.

We retrieved 28
13 mature
12 fertilized
5 frosties

That compared to my last cycles is an awesome response and change. I still highly recommend the book. I've never had any to freeze. Big improvement. I hope that the changes will help you! I'm starting my meds tomorrow for our FET

emmuffy

Fx @justone13!

IfMamaAintHappy

Yes AWESOME update @justone13!!   Everything crossed for your FET.  Remind me....did you change your protocol with this cycle too?

vballbaby

Hi ladies. I haven't read the book everyone is mentioning about plastics and toxins etx I already try to abide by that by using para em free cosmetic products as they are easy to find. I think if you're trying to reduce toxins you should eat organic non-gmo foods. The main gmo crops are corn, soy, sugar beet and cotton. Most processed foods today are made from gmo corn. The corn has the insecticide built into its DNA (aka "round up ready") Would you eat something that was labeled as an incecticide? If you've never researched gmo's and you're trying to reduce toxins look to the foods you're eating. Gmo foods are banned in most other counties (Europe and China included) in fact the food we export to these countries are grown on non gmo farms. Funny how our govt doesn't think it's important enough to give us the same quality. It's no wonder our country is so sick. You are your own best advocate because our govt does not always have our best interests in mind when it comes to health. Sorry for the rant. I'm passionate about this.

IfMamaAintHappy

No need to apologize @rachelwms!  I'll admit I am not as educated on gmo as I should be other than the general notion that processed foods are bad for you. I'll add this to my list of research this weekend!

Justone13

@IfMamaAintHappy‌ thank you!! And yes. This time we did a lupron stop cycle. Used menopur and triggered with hcg. I'm not sure that it was the lupron that made that big of a difference. I really believe it was the lifestyle changes.

KM721

Hopefully it's not too late to resurrect this thread. I started reading this thread a couple of weeks ago, and since then ordered the book. It sat for a few days after it arrived, but I started reading last night and I couldn't stop! I read the whole thing today, and just went out and spent a few hundred dollars on products to switch out in the household. Then, I re-read this thread (makes much more sense now)!  

I still have a couple of questions that maybe folks can shed light on: 

- The book mentions getting tested for Vitamin D levels, Celiac, and Hypothyroidism. If you pursued this testing, did you get it ordered through your RE, PCP or GYN? Did you have any issues getting the testing ordered? We got our testing done in a whirlwind and I don't even remember anything about it other than everything was fine. Our diagnosis is MFI, so I have been told all along that I am normal. I definitely want to revisit that now with more information. 

- I think because I don't have any diagnosis, but I do have three failed IVFs with nothing to freeze, I should follow the intermediate plan, adding CoQ10 in general and melatonin during cycling. My plan is to begin these changes Dec 1 and then not cycle again until March, which gives us a much needed break anyway. Do you ISWTE believers/veterans think this is a good approach? 

- How receptive have your REs been to this? My RE does not seem to be one for the whole body approach, and I have a feeling that he will probably say that it won't make a difference. I will see him on Wednesday, so I guess I will find out. Even if he doesn't believe in the supplements, will he advise me on dosing? 

- Has anyone worked with a nutritionist on the dietary changes? I am hopeless in the kitchen and have basically just gotten to the proficient level with getting food on the table nightly. Now having to switch everything up seems overwhelming to me, so I am thinking of asking for help and maybe consulting with a nutritionist. Thoughts? 

@Justone13--Your story makes me hopeful because I have never had anything to freeze either and perhaps these changes will give me something to hope for. 

Thanks for this helpful thread, @IfMamaAintHappy! I feel like a whole new world is opened up and this is helping me to make a plan moving forward with IF. 

Justone13

@KM721‌ hello there!! I'm glad that you found the book so helpful. I was in the same exact boat you are in. I used coQ10 once a day and then started the melatonin once stims started. I made almost all of the chemical changes mentioned in the book like getting rid of cleaners and bpa. I think that your idea of change is a great start. I really went hard core while in my cycle. Lmk of you have any questions I'll try to help!

Carol77B

Since talking about ISWTE is one of my favorite things, I'll also chime in to your questions, @KM721‌:

- The book mentions getting tested for Vitamin D levels, Celiac, and Hypothyroidism. If you pursued this testing, did you get it ordered through your RE, PCP or GYN? Did you have any issues getting the testing ordered? We got our testing done in a whirlwind and I don't even remember anything about it other than everything was fine. Our diagnosis is MFI, so I have been told all along that I am normal. I definitely want to revisit that now with more information. 

->My RE just added Vitamin D testing before my last IVF cycle and it came back normal, so I take the recommended dose from the book about once a week, since it is a fat soluble pill and you can OD on it. Do you have a nurse that you work with that can check your file to see if you were tested on it? If not, you might just go to your PCP for it. My RE did thyroid testing earlier on, I think that is pretty standard for RE's to check, so you may have already had it tested- which even if you did, you should find out your numbers, since there is growing evidence that subclinical hypothyroidism can be a problem. If your RE didn't check it, I'd either ask them to check or have your PCP do it. And if it looks like you may have subclinical hypothryodism (you can Google it) you should see an Endocrinologist that supports treating subclinical hypthrodism.  I had been tested for celiac years ago when I had weird liver tests, but no one has ever discussed testing it again, I don't think it is standard, so you may need to discuss that with your PCP.  See if you can get your DHEA tested, too. Mine won't do it but told me I can stop taking the DHEA supplements (they recommended 25mcg/3X a day and 600 CoQ10 right before IVF #2).

 

 

- I think because I don't have any diagnosis, but I do have three failed IVFs with nothing to freeze, I should follow the intermediate plan, adding CoQ10 in general and melatonin during cycling. My plan is to begin these changes Dec 1 and then not cycle again until March, which gives us a much needed break anyway. Do you ISWTE believers/veterans think this is a good approach? 

 

-> I followed the intermediate plan and was already taking the DHEA and CoQ10 based on my RE's recommendation, but switched to the version/brands recommended in the book. I also added most of the other supplements recommended. I think giving the changes three months sounds like a terrific approach- I pushed out IVF #4 to Nov to give the changes I adopted on 1 Aug a chance. I will say that I was disappointed that my AFC dropped from 16 in mid-Sept to 12 in mid-Nov, but I can't pinpoint why that happened, so hoping it was a fluke. But there's a lot of controversy about the DHEA, so I may stop taking that. Another thing- I had to convert my IVF to an IUI since I had a dominant follicle after four days of stimming. I didn't do any suppression since my ovulation was about a week late, but AF came on time. We think I had the uneven growth due to lack of suppression. I've had late ovulation fairly frequently in the past (I was using the CBE ovulation kit and every couple of months it would show no ovulation since it was so late) and in general it isn't a problem for IVF with BCPs and stimming, but because we were trying to use the Estrogen Priming Protocol, which is tied to ovulation, I wasn't able to start it before I got AF.  However, I had also been sporadically taking 1 mcg of Melatonin, so it's possible (though not very likely at such a low dose) that, that may have effected my ovulation last month.

- How receptive have your REs been to this? My RE does not seem to be one for the whole body approach, and I have a feeling that he will probably say that it won't make a difference. I will see him on Wednesday, so I guess I will find out. Even if he doesn't believe in the supplements, will he advise me on dosing? 

 

-> My RE thinks it won't hurt but doesn't believe it'll do any good. He even downplayed my weight loss. Based on that attitude I didn't bother to consult him about dosing, etc.

- Has anyone worked with a nutritionist on the dietary changes? I am hopeless in the kitchen and have basically just gotten to the proficient level with getting food on the table nightly. Now having to switch everything up seems overwhelming to me, so I am thinking of asking for help and maybe consulting with a nutritionist. Thoughts? 

-> I solved this by going on a very strict meal-replacement diet, which basically followed the dietary recommendations in the book, but I think a nutritionist is a terrific idea, and I would like to see one when I completely go off my diet.

Good luck!

KM721

Thanks, @Justone13! Btw, were your frozen embryos Day 3 or Day 5? Just re-reading your siggy and I was curious. 

@Carol77B--Thank you so much for your detailed answers!  I feel embarrassed that I am not more knowledgeable about my test results. I trusted the docs when I was told that everything was normal and just went with that and jumped into treatment. My mom has thyroid issues, so I wouldn't be surprised if I do too. I wasn't planning on adding the DHEA from my initial reading of the book. I will have to review that section. Thanks for the tip on Vitamin D weekly. Those of us cold climate dwellers need to be especially conscious of that! 

I am honestly so glad I found this book. If nothing else, it gives me something I can control so that when we look back on this, however it ends, I know I did everything I could. 

Justone13

@KM721‌ they were frozen on day 6!! I am super excited that we got 5. Never in a million years would I have though it would happen but it worked!

IfMamaAintHappy

@KM721 never too late to resurrect this thread.  I started it out of desperation and am glad we have all come here to share our perspectives.  Here are my answers to your questions:

 

Testing:  Fortunately for me, I had already had the testing recommended in the book done over time as they naturally arose.  My OBGyn has been big on Vit D for several years and she ordered the testing a long time ago (long before TTC).  I was a bit deficient at the time and she prescribed higher levels of supplement for a short time to get it where it needed to be.  Since that time I have taken regular OTC supplement to maintain.  My endocrinologist also tests my levels for Vit D periodically.  For hypothyroidism, I was diagnosed with Hashimoto's about 5 years ago (also long before TTC).  I was referred to an endo by my PCP due to unexplained fatigue.  I also have a family history of thyroid issues (my maternal aunt has Graves disease and after my Dx my mother was diagnosed with thyroid issues and is actually having hers removed in a few months).  I was fortunate that my thyroid has always been monitored very closely through this whole TTC process.  I do know what you mean about the number of tests being overwhelming and not remembering what all you've had done.  With the RPL panel of tests, I literally had to print out all of my lab results and keep them in a folder. 

Which Plan Level to Follow:  In light of my recurrent losses, my age, and my borderline DOR I opted to follow the most aggressive plan outlined in the book.  But your plan to do the intermediate plan and give it a few months to kick in all sounds reasonable to me.  I regretted finding the book too close to my first ER and am super hopeful this next one will be improved due to the supplements. 

RE Receptive:  mine is open-minded about the supplements and lifestyle/diet changes, but he didn't bring them up on his own.  I had to ask and he said yes ok to take them.  On CoQ10 he said it is an anti-oxidant and therefore doesn't hurt to take large quantities recommended in the book.  He was also aware of the DHEA recommendation and said a very objective "yes."  He has in the past made faces at certain things I have suggested or asked about (including whether to continue baby aspirin). 

Nutritionist:  I have not consulted with one or asked RE about it.  I am a pretty clean eater and haven't felt the need.  If this one doesn't work out, I may reconsider. 

KM721

@IfMamaAintHappy--Thank you so much!  I may update the thread after our appointment this afternoon, but honestly I feel like if the RE isn't even willing to discuss it, then we may need a new one. Bottom line is that he is doing everything he can to get me pregnant, but I am not. I need to be able to rest easy for the rest of my life knowing that I did everything I could, and if nothing else, this will offer me something to help with that feeling. 

jessmacdonald13

I'm just in the process of reading ISWTE and already I'm hooked! I'm heading out to pick up more supplements after work today! 

emmuffy

I'm on DHEA and as far as I know I wasn't tested in advance. The DHEA was prescribed by my second opinion RE, who believes it helps low responders get better numbers but not necessarily better quality. My original RE felt the meta-analyses did not support its use. I've also noticed oily skin with the DHEA (3x25/day), but I'm continuing with it anyway, as it seems like a relatively cosmetic/minor side effect to me. I figure it won't really harm me and there's a chance it could help (some studies, including from 2014, support its use). I guess it depends how much the oily skin bothers you. It's hard to know which of the many steps we are taking might hold the key to success!

ronniesgirl1981

One of my second opinion docs recommended 25 mg micronized DHEA 3x day without testing me for it. I've been taking it for about a week or 2 without any side effects...i'd probably keep taking it.

Carol77B

lemonliz I'm sure its the DHEA causing your oiliness/breakouts. I was having real trouble getting my hair clean before I stopped taking it after my IUI earlier in the month and I've just gotten used to the teenage breakouts, mostly on my chest! 

There are some ladies (I think they posted on here earlier, but I'm too lazy to check) who have RE's that are adamantly opposed to DHEA usage. Mine recommended it after my first failed IVF along with the CoQ10 and I switched to the brand recommended by ISTWE, which I think made my oiliness worse, but I figured that probably meant it was "working," lol.

FWIW when I asked my nurse about testing my levels she just said that I could stop taking it if I wasn't comfortable, so I plan to start it again, but am curious to know what my levels are. Not sure who else I could get to test it, if my RE won't.  

nowthatsalady

It's almost surely the DHEA causing your oiliness/breakouts. I've been on 25mg3xday for four months now (excluding after retrieval to BFN during my last IVF cycle) and it's like I'm a teenager again. I'm so oily and broken out on my face, chest, and back. I hate it, but I will do anything that might help. ISWTE even lists oiliness/breakouts as a side effect.