Thoughts on separation? Not me, but a family member.

juliane2004

I know I'm not as active as I was way back when, but I still stalk the board here & there. :P

I have a question. Looking for thoughts, especially if you've been in this situation (as the parent OR the child) & would like to share.

My sister & her hubby separated. Long story short: no physical abuse but definitely emotional abuse. He works 12 hour shifts (noon to midnight) & only really does any "parenting" (if you could call him saying "hi" to the kids while playing video games & his mom watches the kids....) on weekends, if at all. After about 1-2 years of true unhappiness, she left him.

Currently, the kids stay with him (& his mom, the real caregiver) on weekends & with her for the week.

She feels terrible. Terrible for her. For the kids. Like maybe she should go back & just stay "for the kids".

What do you think? Is it better to have a happy mom (in the future, right now she's agonizing) while shuffling the kids back & forth OR to just stay married in one house "for the kids"?

Note: The kids are 1 & 3 years old.

Thanks ladies.

juliane2004

harti09 said:

At 1 and 3, the children will react, but not remember.

Thanks harti. This is helpful. She's very very sad for the kids, that it's torture for them every time they have to go back & forth.

jenndub

Agree with Harti 100%. Never stay for the kids. You really aren't doing them any favors. They can tell when everyone is unhappy and it sucks for them. Kids are amazing, they can handle things way better than adults. I was in therapy for a while after DD1 and DS' dad left us, the guilt of them not having a "real family" was overwhelming. I remember my therapist saying that kids have the ability to make their situation normal in their minds, whatever it is.

I also think it's important to show your kids what a healthy relationship should be, and if you're not in one, it's good for them to see you leave. They need to know that you can always improve your life and you always have choices. He's not going to be a better dad just because they're together. And she needs to be happy, happy moms make happy kids. My ex isn't the best dad in the world, but my kids are amazing. They're happy and fun and sweet and we didn't ruin them by splitting up. Best of luck to your sister.

Holly_1007

Oh hi. Not sure how much you lurk on the boards, but I asked my H to move out in August. I am starting a full time job on Monday and the boys are transitioning to full time care. They currently see him during the days on Saturday and Sunday a few weekends a month. I'm not comfortable with them being away from me overnight yet. Like your sisters Husband, my H has very little experience caring for the boys (he has never even bathed them). I am completely confident that I made the right decision to ask him to leave. I mean, I've started taking anti depressants and anxiety meds, but that isn't due to the fact that my H and I are separated. I hope she can stick it out and figure out a way to better hers and the children's lives. She should not go back to him out of guilt.

smb+jab

this seems like a tough situation for all involved going through, however I do have a different view on the situation to offer, not that I am advocating this but I thought I would share.  My cousin, who was one of my best friends growing up (and still is) went through a similar situation.  However the situation is quite the reverse.  He was asked to leave by his wife for numerous reasons none of which were abuse rather it just wasn't working (I should note most of the family never really liked her to begin with but that is another issue).  Now their situation was the complete opposite of the typical husband wife dynamic, which might have added to the stress but again she was the one who threw him out.  They had three kids at the time, 7, 6 and 4 (all girls) my cousin who worked full time as a detective took them to school / daycare, cooked them their meals, bathed them, managed the household (repairs, bills, cars) did the laundry and took care of most of the food shopping (Mostly he did everything).  She stopped working full time when she had her first child although she had various part time jobs since but mostly acted as a glorified babysitter in playing with the kids.

 

So since I mentioned I had a different perspective to offered you might have guessed he went back to her after she decided not to files the divorce papers.  Why, because during the separation period the girls were living in their home (he moved in with his my mother/my aunt) the girls were living in squalor.  They were dirty, tardy for school (the oldest one actually received notes about her bad behavior ) hadn't eaten veggies until they were with him on the weekends.  So he went back for them and this was after a period of about a year maybe.  I don’t know if it was the right decision, but it was the right decision for him and his family at that time, so in my opinion I think only the person in the situation can be the one to decide.  I know he was miserable for that year,  and seems to be ok now; however since this was sort of the reverse you might be able to put up with bad spouse just to be around the children you love so dearly.

 

However, do I think that he could petitioned for full custody of those girls, probably

 

Good luck to your sister, hopefully she can figure out something that works for her.  Is another arrangement a possibility?

Holly_1007

Plus everything @jenndub said. She's my role model

kelbel527

Staying with someone who makes you unhappy for at least the next 17 years (until the youngest is presumably out of the house), sounds like torture.  

I'll give you the perspective of a child of divorce.  My parents separated 3 times growing up.  Once when I was 5, once when I was 9ish, and finally when I was 13.  In some ways, I actually wish they had just stuck with it back when I was 5.  The younger kids are, the more resilient they are, and as jenndub mentioned, they're capable of making their situation normal.  

She has to do what's best for her and her family, but I just don't think staying together for the kids ends up being that situation.  If she thinks that more therapy or working it out with her husband is a possibility, then yes, she should keep working on her marriage.  But if she knows that she will never be happy with him (or he's not willing to work on it), then she should do what's best for herself.  

Happy Mom = Happy Kids.

melody921

Aside from the fact that life is too short, being unhappy/abused for years sets a very bad example for children. Besides, kids are very intuitive and will know that the dynamic is off. My parents didn't split until I was older, and my mom definitely stayed because of us, but that didn't make me feel any better about the end result. It actually at times made me feel like I was partly responsible for all the crap she had to deal with. It also makes you feel like your childhood was a lie if it all falls apart when you hit adulthood.

willy_gert

I don't know that I have any real advice.  DH and I are "separated" but living together because cannot afford to live separately.  He sleeps in one room, I sleep in another, we coexist.  Things suck and honestly I wonder if separating for real, i.e. separate living spaces would make a difference for us.

I feel like she has made the best decision for her and she needs to stick with it.  The kids are young enough that they won't remember a time when he was around and will more than likely never question it.  I do think that happy parents make happy kids too.

It is much easier said than done, but she has to stand up for herself because going back will only make it harder to leave the next time.

AKB090609

My parents had a terrible divorce (even 18 years later couldn't be in the same room) so coming from that POV a happy parent/parents who is single is/are better for kids than an unhappy family unit. I think it is important for parents to teach their children not to accept being mistreated by a partner, going back 'for the kids' will do them more harm than good in the end.

tinyhumantoe

Ditto @jenndub and @harti09

hmp1

My last year was not the same as the relationship you have described but I feel pretty confident in saying that DH and I still together because of the kids. We are back to being in a happy place and we never had abuse, just a falling out of love. We have worked hard on making it work the past few months and have seen great progress. If not for the kids, I do not believe we would have worked this hard. But I am so glad we did. So, that is my perspective for my family. DH is a good guy, a good father, we just had issues within our own relationship that needed work. 

So, basically "staying together for the kids" can have different meanings to me. If you want to save your marriage and get it back to a healthy loving satisfying relationship for both parties, it is ok for the kids to be the main reason for getting to to that place. If you have no interest in getting to that place and only live together for the kids, that is not ok.

hmp1

My DH comes from a divorced home. He can remember his parents screaming at each other and he was relieved when they finally split. My brother told me a similar story of his son seeming relieved when he finally split from his wife and they were not yellers, just two people that obviously didn't get along anymore. 

If they are at a breaking point, it is better for it to be before the kids have the memories like DH has.

willy_gert

hmp1 said:

My last year was not the same as the relationship you have described but I feel pretty confident in saying that DH and I still together because of the kids. We are back to being in a happy place and we never had abuse, just a falling out of love. We have worked hard on making it work the past few months and have seen great progress. If not for the kids, I do not believe we would have worked this hard. But I am so glad we did. So, that is my perspective for my family. DH is a good guy, a good father, we just had issues within our own relationship that needed work. 

So, basically "staying together for the kids" can have different meanings to me. If you want to save your marriage and get it back to a healthy loving satisfying relationship for both parties, it is ok for the kids to be the main reason for getting to to that place. If you have no interest in getting to that place and only live together for the kids, that is not ok.

This is a really great perspective.  I guess I feel like the difference may be willingness to work on things?  

I'm glad y'all are doing better!  Any tips for those of us trying?

hmp1

willy_gert said:

hmp1 said:

My last year was not the same as the relationship you have described but I feel pretty confident in saying that DH and I still together because of the kids. We are back to being in a happy place and we never had abuse, just a falling out of love. We have worked hard on making it work the past few months and have seen great progress. If not for the kids, I do not believe we would have worked this hard. But I am so glad we did. So, that is my perspective for my family. DH is a good guy, a good father, we just had issues within our own relationship that needed work. 

So, basically "staying together for the kids" can have different meanings to me. If you want to save your marriage and get it back to a healthy loving satisfying relationship for both parties, it is ok for the kids to be the main reason for getting to to that place. If you have no interest in getting to that place and only live together for the kids, that is not ok.

This is a really great perspective.  I guess I feel like the difference may be willingness to work on things?  

I'm glad y'all are doing better!  Any tips for those of us trying?

Thanks! Still a work in progress so not sure I feel like I can give advice. It took DH longer to get to the "I want this to work" state of mind and that was really hard on me. I gave a couple simple ground rules during that time, he can not move out and we need to still communicate with each other. He talked about getting an apartment and even went as far as to look at one. I felt like if he moved out it was over. I wasn't going to go back and forth like that. He did go to a hotel a couple times and we both went to visit friends out of state. We needed space to think but not as much space as an apartment, IMO. We kept things together for the kids, I do not think they felt too much stress in the house. We sought outside help to keep us communicating in a positive way instead of going off on tangents and never getting back on track. So that has been my summer in a nutshell. We have things to work on still and a constant effort to not slip into the habits that brought us down in the first place.

Nita2603

I would never stay together for the kids and be unhappy. Ever.
If we are ok just being room mates and none of us is unhappy over it?
Maybe.

But really, while the kids are important and all that, I will not stay within a relationship that doesn't make me happy at least sometimes. I am worth more than that, I need more than that and I would rather be unhappy and alone for a while and then rebuilt my life (with coparenting and whatnot) than know that for the next 15 to 10 years, I am staying with a man I don't love, or he doesn't love me or whatever the issue may be.

My parents have been separated since I was 6. I am ok. They would be too.

Holly_1007

Hugs @hmp1

teedaalee

Statistics indicate that divorce will impact children their whole lives. I’m not saying they should stay together for the kids but they should weigh this very heavily before deciding anything. In saying that it sounds like your sister and her hubby need to work through some things. Proceeding forward in their marriage will take work but I think the benefits far outweigh the trial right now. Have the ever considered counseling? Maybe encourage them to seek outside help for their marriage? There are great marriage intensives out there including National Institute of Marriage that they could really benefit from. I have faith they can work through this!

teedaalee0712

jenndub

IndigoVader said:

teedaalee said:

Statistics indicate that divorce will impact children their whole lives. I’m not saying they should stay together for the kids but they should weigh this very heavily before deciding anything. In saying that it sounds like your sister and her hubby need to work through some things. Proceeding forward in their marriage will take work but I think the benefits far outweigh the trial right now. Have the ever considered counseling? Maybe encourage them to seek outside help for their marriage? There are great marriage intensives out there including National Institute of Marriage that they could really benefit from. I have faith they can work through this!

teedaalee0712

Thank God I was never married to my older kids' dad! Now I don't have to worry about ruining them with divorce. Phew.

tinyhumantoe

@hmp1 very good points. Sorry you are going through that. . It scares me because I feel we may be pretty close to that place where something has to be done. My heart would break if DH started looking for apartments. I'm sorry you went through that.

jenndub

@IndigoVader‌ I know that wasn't you, I don't know where your quote went!

I would like to add that I don't think it's wrong to work on your marriage and try to figure things out for your kids. I just don't think it can work if you're only doing it for the kids or only one person is trying to make it work. Staying in an unhealthy relationship for the kids is a bad idea. Working to save a relationship I have no problem with.

hmp1

teedaalee said:

Statistics indicate that divorce will impact children their whole lives. I’m not saying they should stay together for the kids but they should weigh this very heavily before deciding anything. In saying that it sounds like your sister and her hubby need to work through some things. Proceeding forward in their marriage will take work but I think the benefits far outweigh the trial right now. Have the ever considered counseling? Maybe encourage them to seek outside help for their marriage? There are great marriage intensives out there including National Institute of Marriage that they could really benefit from. I have faith they can work through this!

teedaalee0712

Pretty sure the kids witnessing abuse is more damaging than divorce. I certainly wouldn't want my sons growing up thinking it was ok to emotionally abuse their partner.

PenelopePond

I'm a child of divorce. The best thing to happen to me when I was a kid was my parents getting a divorce. They were happier apart than they were together. Together they were miserable, so we all were. Things improved greatly when they separated/divorced. They didn't argue or physically fight, but it just wasn't a good relationship. I can promise you my siblings and I have no baggage from the divorce. Everyone has been happier since.

juliane2004

Ack! Sorry for the post & run. Hubby & I went away for a couple days without the kids.

Thank you for all your responses. They have been really helpful. I think my sister just needs to hear that she made a good decision. Her ex is "done" (according to him) - not willing to work on anything, not willing to even talk with her or go to counseling. She would, if he would but he's "done".

Thanks again ladies.

Hyaline

In skimming the responses--have they attempted therapy?  Has she taken other steps, or is separating the first one?  I don't believe that one should EVER stay "for the kids" alone or stay in an abusive relationship, but if she's having doubts, maybe taking additional steps can help her to be confident in her decision--or, hell, maybe save the marriage, I don't know.

I know that, for me, I would never take separation as a first/only step before divorce no matter how bad it was because I wouldn't be confident that the marriage was hopeless.  I would try counselling.  And kids in the picture would make me even more determined to be confident in the decision that divorce was the best option.  That's not doing it "for the kids" but it would be taken into consideration.

I will say that yes, divorce is going to impact the kids.  No way around it.  It will be part of their lives and there are negative impacts on the kids.  There are also negative impacts from witnessing parents' abusive relationships, too.  I think the main thing is that parents should be AWARE of the potential negative repercussions and mitigate them as much as possible.  It's a hell of a lot easier to be a good parent and mitigate repercussions if you're not a victim of abuse or chronically depressed from subsisting on a shitty relationship.