Flu Shot and Pregnancy??

vballbaby

@etoille I hear CDC.gov has some great buy recommendations. You should check them out. But don't read the Red Herring disclosure warnings, just ignore them as those are only meant for the savvy investor. Just sign where the X is.

hopanka

vballbaby said:

@etoille I hear CDC.gov has some great buy recommendations. You should check them out. But don't read the Red Herring disclosure warnings, just ignore them as those are only meant for the savvy investor. Just sign where the X is.

Hehe!

vballbaby

This is actually a very well written article from the Journal of American Physicians & Surgeons that details the efficacy (or lack thereof) of the flu vaccine, and the potential dangers for pregnant women. From 2000-2005, the average maximum effectiveness was only 7.2% (see Table 2 on the third page down). Now you tell me @etoille....or anyone else who is so pro flu vax, where does your confidence come from this particular vaccine?  There is plenty of research that shows what a low real effective rate the flu vax provides, and even in the thimerosal free version there are still traces of it (there are extremely shady loopholes that they are able to jump through to claim this). It still gets in there from the manufacturing process. It baffles me how the people who are so "pro flu vax" don't even acknowledge the real potential dangers they can cause, which seems hardly worth it to me when you weigh the risks of introducing a nuerotoxin to a developing fetus. It's like you have the blinders on.... If you choose to get it fine, but building your immune system the natural way is far more beneficial and far less risky, especially for a pregnant woman. I would respect you far more if your argument was "I accept the risks but I still choose to get the shot for x,y,z" but instead you stoop to ridiculing educated people making very informed decisions.

https://www.jpands.org/vol11no2/ayoub.pdf

"The ACIP policy recommendation of routinely administering

influenza vaccine during pregnancy is ill-advised and unsupported

by current scientific literature, and it should be withdrawn. Use of

thimerosal during pregnancy should be contraindicated."

Conclusion of this paper:

"The ACIP's recommendation of influenza vaccination during

pregnancy is not supported by citations in its own policy paper or in

current medical literature. Considering the potential risks of

maternal and fetal mercury exposure, the administration of

thimerosal during pregnancy is both unjustified and unwise.

Pregnancy should continue to be a time when doctors are highly

protective of their patients with regard to any fetal exposure.

Without adequate safety testing, a risk-benefit analysis of influenza

vaccination during pregnancy is not possible, and therefore the

ACIP's present recommendation should be withdrawn."

vballbaby

@etoille he's not a radiologist...and GMO's really? You're actually pro GMO foods? Are you insane or just incredibly uneducated on the subject? The GMO foods we grow here are BANNED in most countries, and we also grow NON-GMO food for export to other countries and you think that's cool? That the food we're actually feeding our own people is of less quality than some of the food we actually export?  It's not even a secret in the least bit that flu vax has a low efficacy, yet your only defense is calling people like me crazy? Name calling...Yea! That'll get people to listen to your point of view. Wow, you have 10,000 comments? Congrats, I bet 9,999 of them are you spewing nonsense and being rude to people.

Question: Have you ever known anyone to suffer from a vaccine injury? I bet you haven't...in fact most people who have no first hand knowledge to the horrors of vaccine injury have the blinders on. Do you also run to your Dr. for antibiotics when you have a case of the sniffles?

"Again, thank you so much for proving my point that all you people can't be trusted.  You only made your argument look weaker." I doubt it, but I'll bet I've encouraged more than a few people to actually go do some more research of their own to make an informed decision and listen less to the nonsense spewing from your mouth. Now go eat your GMO Cheerios and think of something pointless to reply back to me.... And I'll put my crazy pants back and enjoy the enlightenment that wearing them has brought me.

ABOUT F. EDWARD YAZBAK, MD, FAAP

TL Autism Research
Falmouth, Massachusetts
E-mail: TLAutStudy@aol.com

Dr. Yazbak, a board-certified pediatrician with special training in infectious diseases, has been a fellow of the American Academy of Pediatrics since 1963. He was formerly the Assistant Clinical Director of the Charles V. Chapin Hospital (Infectious Diseases), the Pediatric Director of Child Development Study at Brown University and the Director of Pediatrics at the Woonsocket Hospital in Rhode Island.

He has practiced pediatrics and was a school physician in Northern Rhode Island for 34 years. Since 1998, he has devoted his time to the research of regressive autism, its epidemic increase and its auto-immune causes. He has conducted a large study of mothers who received repeated live virus vaccines as adults and has proposed the hypothesis that live virus vaccination of mothers just before, during and immediately after pregnancy, predisposes their children to autism. He presented his findings at a special session of the American Academy of Pediatrics in 2001 and has published 3 peer-reviewed papers on the subject. He has also published extensively on the Internet.
His interest in vaccines has been long-standing and he has been certified as an expert witness in vaccine injury cases.

vballbaby

yea so what? one's a radiologist and one's a pediatric Dr. what's your point? is there some invalidity in the article because one is a radiologist? This banter is pointless in my opinion, and through all this I haven't even really seen a stand out opinion of yours, all I've seen is bullying and trying to make a point by using wizard of oz pictures and calling me crazy pants, so your rebuttals mean nothing really. So basically you've just spent the morning doing what makes you feel good, hiding behind a computer and trying to pick fights with people. Keep racking up those abuse points @etoille. Bet they give you a thrill and a spring in your step.

vballbaby

@etoille all this yapping and you haven't given me one SHRED of anything that "should" make me sway my opinion on the flu vax. You know so much about everything, ever think about trying that angle? Or does calling people "crazy pants" help you win arguments in your profession? Enjoy a healthy life of eating cancer free potatoes from McDonalds, LOL. I'll stick with my organic crap and wear a tin foil hat.

janda426

vballbaby said:

yea so what? one's a radiologist and one's a pediatric Dr. what's your point? is there some invalidity in the article because one is a radiologist? This banter is pointless in my opinion, and through all this I haven't even really seen a stand out opinion of yours, all I've seen is bullying and trying to make a point by using wizard of oz pictures and calling me crazy pants, so your rebuttals mean nothing really. So basically you've just spent the morning doing what makes you feel good, hiding behind a computer and trying to pick fights with people. Keep racking up those abuse points @etoille. Bet they give you a thrill and a spring in your step.

I'd probably call bullying too if I was getting logically dumped on by @etoille . Just run along. You have proved zero points here. Also insinuating everyone who vaccinates also overuses antibiotics is hilarious. Anyone who's even slightly educated knows the effects of over prescription of antibiotics and microbial resistance. Your arms gonna fall off if you keep reaching any further.

delujm0

So we are now relying on 10 year old medical research articles? Because lord knows nothing about medicine or research or the vaccines themselves could possibly have changed since the 2005 study date.

Also the mercury argument is pretty much moot since the preservative free vaccine, which is what is recommended for pregnant women, is mercury free.

I can guarantee you that your unvaccinated child has a better chance of getting a previously irraticated disease than a vaccinated child has of getting autism from said vaccines. There is a mumps outbreak in the NHL right now. Mumps! Because apparently team doctors don't monitor the players' booster shots. What a joke.

It just astounds me that people with no medical background think they know better than doctors. Doctors who have gone to at least 8 years of specialized schooling and who have read not just one but many many relevant research studies about this stuff. I mean I'm not going to read a brief study of aviation and then try to fly a plane or question a pilot about his flight path. That would be crazy. But it's reasonable to ignore widely supported medical evidence because you can use Google? That's just stupid.

vballbaby

oh my bad it was @redheadbaker that cited the wizard of oz pic...oh well you're both on the same soapbox right? peace out, have a great day and I'll look forward to hearing something from you with some actual validity as well instead of the "i'm a crazy pants" angle on things.

vballbaby

Well we can just agree to disagree on the flu vax. I'm not anti vax but this one just doesn't have the safety research behind it for me to feel comfortable, bottom line. And there are plenty of newer studies that say the same thing.

janda426

Does anyone else find it hilarious that the same people who criticize doctors for being more "treatment oriented" over "prevention oriented" are the same ones who criticize doctors giving vaccines aka your biggest form of prevention for whatever disease it's immunizing you against? Things that make you go hmmm

vballbaby

janda426

vballbaby said:

This... Makes no sense. Wouldn't expect anything less of a rebuttal though

skittles31

I got the flu shot but Dr said people are getting it anyways and now my kids have it and I feel achy so who's had the flu while pregnant I'm 18 wks btw

vballbaby

@redheadbaker, of course you're more popular than me duh, you're in a wolf pack with @janda426 and @etoille is your alpha 8-} Oh what's this, someone got the flu shot and now they have the flu? How is that possible!!?  @skittles31 I'm really sorry you're sick and I mean no offense in using you in my post and I hope you feel better soon. This is just SUCH a biased post and I'm tired of being a lone wolf in here! wah.

vballbaby

Aww all the wolves came out! Lol. I was being sarcastic when I said how can you get the flu if you've had the shot, obviously. Of course you can, and I doubt it's 50% effective. And no, your rhetoric is not out of my capacity. I just don't respect any of your opinions because your delivery sucks. So if you actually want people to take you seriously you may want to stop being a-holes. I see your posts on other threads and it's delivered with the same lack of grace and holier than thou attitude as it is here. But I guess that's what happens when you have 10000 posts - you don't have a life outside of this board to validate yourselves.

vballbaby

I'm sure I'm only being laughed at by a few, but I'm positive some others have read this and are happy that I actually stood up for myself, because that's what this is about at this point, internet bullying on a forum - call it what you will. The overflow of messages in my inbox has proven to me that your attitudes on these boards has pissed more than a few people off. Maybe they are smarter than I am to try to engage in an actual conversation with some of you when the general theme is to gang up on the underdog. It's like talking politics - there's never a winner and it just hurts friendships that could have been. So, no hard feelings to you....and I'm sorry you feel like I'm ignorant for not running with the masses; I never have.... I will keep reading and educating myself on the subject and by the grace of God, or by science, or both, if I ever do have a child, I'll be making the best personal choice for me when it comes to vaccines. I'm not one to hold grudges, and I am usually one to avoid confrontation so this is a first for me.... for what it's worth. I really didn't intend to piss anyone off or claim that I know everything. Quite the opposite actually, I'm eager for knowledge. Anyhoo, Christmas is coming, so why don't we just let this die.

vballbaby

My goodness you really must have been picked on as child @etoille‌

janda426

vballbaby said:

My goodness you really must have been picked on as child @etoille‌

I'm literally still waiting for a logical argument from you. You hate the delivery from @etoille‌ but you're dishing it back twice as hard. Commenting on her upbringing or calling names where she is simply dumbfounded (and quite frankly isn't the only one) at every single thing you've posted because it's all bullshit, very mature.

And be careful who your board allies are here- if you want to jump on @unconventionalatbest‌ wagon then go ahead, but don't plan on having any credibility around here. And obviously you care about that or you wouldn't still be going after you said how you were, you know, leaving. I mean you're doing a great job of losing any credibility all on your own so I think you two would be perfect for each other. All you're doing is fulfilling every anti vaxxer stereotype there is. So by all means, keep going. Except stfu about bullying or any other of your abusive comments that violate TOU.

janda426

unconventionalatbest said:

Or people like me are smart enough to look at research beyond what a medical professional feeds them. Then, dare I say it... people like me accept the fact that doctors aren't all geniuses with all the answers. They are also capable of regurgitating the same information you have.

This is hilarious. I actually haven't asked my doctor about vaccines at all, I do my own research and then go get the vaccines from them.

I love the sheep argument though. Fucking classic. Or discrediting ALL doctors because of a few quacks. Genius! So original.

PrimRoseMama

vballbaby

@janda426 my only real logical argument was this: there are no long term studies on the safety of the flu shot for pregnant women, flu shots give you limited protection if any, there are risks introducing neurotoxins to a fetus (just read the insert on a flu shot), therefore I feel it's in my best interest to fight the flu naturally, like I have for the past 42 years with great success. I didn't really plan on getting into any heated debate over it, and all the bullying just really pissed me off. It just never ends with some people. You're absolutely right though, I should have left this conversation long ago because this place has an extremely negative energy.

janda426

vballbaby said:

@janda426 my only real logical argument was this: there are no long term studies on the safety of the flu shot for pregnant women, flu shots give you limited protection if any, there are risks introducing neurotoxins to a fetus (just read the insert on a flu shot), therefore I feel it's in my best interest to fight the flu naturally, like I have for the past 42 years with great success. I didn't really plan on getting into any heated debate over it, and all the bullying just really pissed me off. It just never ends with some people. You're absolutely right though, I should have left this conversation long ago because this place has an extremely negative energy.

For fucks sake, again. Bullying is against TOU and would be reported and warned against. What's happening isn't bullying. You don't like when people call out inconsistencies in your argument and you're crying foul. Every time you misuse that word it undermines what people are actually going through. This is exactly what you said, a heated debate. You are contributing way more negative energy than anyone arguing against you by being combative, accusatory and name calling when you don't like the responses you get.

hopanka

etoille said:

unconventionalatbest said:

And also, @etoille‌ , if you don't waste your time with people like me, then stop posting. Can you do it? Can ya, can ya??

ROFL 

God you really can't read can you?  Is there a special school you all go to where they teach you to only read every other word of what someone says?

Just another anti vaxxer claiming to be edumucated.  

)

Y'all never miss an opportunity to prove just how special you are.

You seriously need to stfu with the special school and other "special" comments. It is offensive.

Meery82

vballbaby said:

Never had a flu shot and I don't think I've ever had a case of the flu when I was little that didn't pass within a few days and haven't had it since and I'm 42. Dr Sears Vaccine Book (and this is not all I've read nor will it be my last source of info) but prior to 2010 flu vax was not considered safe for pregnant women as it was labeled as a class C risk category and even now it's only a B category. Why? Because there are not enough actual human studies to prove its safety. And if you read the actual PI on a flu vaccine it says "it is also not known whether the flu vaccine can cause fetal harm when administered to a pregnant woman". It is a valid opinion that animal research alone is not enough to verify the safety of the flu vax for pregnant women. I'm not an anti vaxxer per se but the flu vax especially, is questionable and seems to be the least effective. And if you're a family that eats a lot of GMO laden foods, which can cause leaky gut, then that's when some real problems can arise from the toxins from the vaccines leaking into your brain and other organs to cause real damage. If I get a bfp I won't be running to get a flu vaccine. My choice. My decision. And people shouldn't be berating other people on here for their choices.

Someone please tell me that she doesn't really think the flu is a stomach virus that makes you puke. 

I think that fact invalidates her last few pages of word vomit even more than her unfortunate attempt at a rebuttal.

delujm0

unconventionalatbest said:

Or people like me are smart enough to look at research beyond what a medical professional feeds them. Then, dare I say it... people like me accept the fact that doctors aren't all geniuses with all the answers. They are also capable of regurgitating the same information you have.

This is my favorite post.

Yes, because trusting medical research done by medical professionals would be stupid. Personally I only accept medical research that is done by professional basketball players. It just makes sense yo.

janda426

@hopanka‌ clearly you've never heard the very popular term special snowflake used around here. Shes not using it in the context you're insinuating so don't even go there

janda426

Meery82 said:

vballbaby said:

Never had a flu shot and I don't think I've ever had a case of the flu when I was little that didn't pass within a few days and haven't had it since and I'm 42. Dr Sears Vaccine Book (and this is not all I've read nor will it be my last source of info) but prior to 2010 flu vax was not considered safe for pregnant women as it was labeled as a class C risk category and even now it's only a B category. Why? Because there are not enough actual human studies to prove its safety. And if you read the actual PI on a flu vaccine it says "it is also not known whether the flu vaccine can cause fetal harm when administered to a pregnant woman". It is a valid opinion that animal research alone is not enough to verify the safety of the flu vax for pregnant women. I'm not an anti vaxxer per se but the flu vax especially, is questionable and seems to be the least effective. And if you're a family that eats a lot of GMO laden foods, which can cause leaky gut, then that's when some real problems can arise from the toxins from the vaccines leaking into your brain and other organs to cause real damage. If I get a bfp I won't be running to get a flu vaccine. My choice. My decision. And people shouldn't be berating other people on here for their choices.

Someone please tell me that she doesn't really think the flu is a stomach virus that makes you puke. 

I think that fact invalidates her last few pages of word vomit even more than her unfortunate attempt at a rebuttal.

--end quote--

I must've read past that statement. It was NOT the flu if it "wasn't that bad" and "passed within a few days." The flu is the flu is influenza. Not gastroenteritis caused typically by norovirus or rotavirus. I LERVEE when people get a stomach virus, mislabel it as a "stomach flu" then bitch how they still got the flu. Id go so far as to say a large majority of these people have this confusion. I've had to be the one to break it to at least 6 people off the top of my head that vomiting and diarrhea are not symptoms of the flu whatsoever and it's entirely respiratory. Then when they go back and realize they actually didn't suffer through a week of hell that is basically your worst cold times ten. That makes you so weak you can barely walk to the bathroom.

I still fucking love the "toxins leaking into your brain" comment. It was at that moment I stopped hearing any of what she was trying to say.

janda426

@unconventionalatbest‌ we are assuming since she didn't outright say it but knowing what the flu actually entails led us to believe that after she wrote she "always got over the flu in a few days or so"

Anyone who's had the flu for real- like, a confirmed diagnosis after being tested- knows how awful it is and definitely not something that's just like "meh, it kinda sucked and went away on its own"

I did go off on a tangent about the countless other anti flu vaxers I've met who used the "well I got the shot and still got the stomach flu" line. Maybe some of you are informed, but many aren't. Starting with the very definition of what the flu even is.

janda426

@MorseBrooks‌ omg I remember the hallucinations.. I was just staring up at the ceiling and seeing like a whole scene playing out on it with people walking out. I had to be carried to the bathroom and was too weak to use a freaking can opener for soup. Fuck that. Never again. And while I'm pregnant?! I couldn't risk dealing with that with my son inside me.

PrimRoseMama

janda426 said:

@MorseBrooks‌ omg I remember the hallucinations.. I was just staring up at the ceiling and seeing like a whole scene playing out on it with people walking out. I had to be carried to the bathroom and was too weak to use a freaking can opener for soup. Fuck that. Never again. And while I'm pregnant?! I couldn't risk dealing with that with my son inside me.

True story-- my one very bad (had to be hospitalized & got pneumonia right after) experience with flu makes me do everything in my power to avoid that insanity. When I was pg-- I was hyper vigilant. It's serious stuff & pure misery.

yvanehtnioj

@etoille‌ best takedown I've ever seen on the bump.

DMB&NSI

I completely 100% disagree with regretting the decision to not get the flu shot if your child ends of getting the flu, and every mother decides different things when they have a child. My son got parainfluenza type 3 when he was 2 months old. The flu vaccine did not protect him against this RARE flu virus!!! I have not and will not regret not getting the flu shot. Over 90% of the people I know who were vaccinated against The flu have been hospitalized... with the flu! For me... the benefits do not out weigh the risks. I'll let you know when I get the flu this season. I work in the medical field and all but two of my patients have gotten the vaccination and most, not those two have gotten the flu!

janda426

DMB&NSI said:

I completely 100% disagree with regretting the decision to not get the flu shot if your child ends of getting the flu, and every mother decides different things when they have a child. My son got parainfluenza type 3 when he was 2 months old. The flu vaccine did not protect him against this RARE flu virus!!! I have not and will not regret not getting the flu shot. Over 90% of the people I know who were vaccinated against The flu have been hospitalized... with the flu! For me... the benefits do not out weigh the risks. I'll let you know when I get the flu this season. I work in the medical field and all but two of my patients have gotten the vaccination and most, not those two have gotten the flu!

OMG just let the fucking thread die.

Also bullfuckingshit that NINETY PERCENT of people who got the flu shot ended up in the hospital with the flu. Like, LOL at your statistics.

janda426

Everyone who says "I work in the medical field" is usually like a receptionist or medical tech who isn't a huge deal or very hands on with patients. People will say "I'm a doctor" or "I'm an RN" if they're someone who is relevant in the medical field. (Just two examples I know there are many others)

Not a foolproof way to gauge if someone's lying but more often than not it's true.

Meery82

janda426 said:

Everyone who says "I work in the medical field" is usually like a receptionist or medical tech who isn't a huge deal or very hands on with patients. People will say "I'm a doctor" or "I'm an RN" if they're someone who is relevant in the medical field. (Just two examples I know there are many others) Not a foolproof way to gauge if someone's lying but more often than not it's true.

YES. It really fucking irritates me when with basically no medical knowledge spouts off like they know all about it. Stuff a sock in it.