FFFC

BabiesEverywhere

fabledmabel said:

I really think a lot of that "they can't help it they are visual creatures" attitude is a) ingrained in men from birth and is therefore easily used as an excuse and b) bullshit, because average healthy humans are absolutely capable of controlling their thoughts AND their sex drives

To an extent, I agree. But I also don't think we can fully understand it because we aren't men & don't think like men.

ETA - I really don't think we can control our initial thoughts/reactions to things all the time. At least I can't. And I think men have more trouble forgetting/filtering thoughts of a sexy woman they saw than we do after seeing a sexy man.

BabiesEverywhere

scoutfinch13 said:

BabiesEverywhere said:

 

BabiesEverywhere said:

I agree that we (general "we," as a culture) need to do a better job of teaching our sons how to respect women no matter what they're wearing. But we also can't deny that men are just wired differently than women. They are incredibly visual and usually have a higher sex drive than women. (Don't get me wrong - THIS DOES NOT MAKE RAPE OKAY.) While they can & should control their actions, they can't always control their thoughts or what they remember about a girl later. So part of the reason that I want my daughter to dress modestly is because it's being respectful of the men who don't want to have sexual thoughts toward her but can't help their thoughts because they are a visual man.

I'm having trouble with this, TBH. 

By the same logic, why not just have your son wear a blindfold?

Because wearing a blindfold in life isn't practical? I'm not saying I judge other women for what they choose to wear. I'm just saying why I personally choose to dress modestly. And why I'd want my daughters to do the same. But dressing a particular way so that others don't have to control their thoughts (or think their thoughts) is practical?  That seems like a lot of responsibility to put on someone. 


-----------------------------------------------
No, I don't think it's impractical or asking too much for someone to wear shorts/skirt/dress long enough to cover their bottom. Or a shirt that covers their cleavage.

ETA - I repeat myself in saying we should also be working on the men. I never said we shouldn't expect the men to try to control or redirect their thoughts.

vdavis89

MY first FFFC... I called off work Wednesday because I was too tired and had a melt down at the gym on my way to the office and didn't want to deal with assholes anymore. So I stayed home and watched Ghost Hunters all day. And Im seriously considering leaving work early today because a) its slow and I've been on TB all day b) I just dont want to be here

BabiesEverywhere

fabledmabel said:

I also choose to dress modestly, for my own reasons, but it is definitely not my, my daughter's, or any other woman's responsibility to keep a man from thinking a certain way. I give men's cognitive ability more credit than that

You don't think men ever have sexual thoughts about women that they don't want to have sexual thoughts about (ex. A married man fantasizing about a woman who isn't his wife)?

I'm not saying that if a man fantasizes about me, it's my fault. No no no, not at all. I don't view it as my responsibility to control men's thoughts. I do think though that if we expect men to respect women, we should expect women to respect men. Dressing modestly is my personal way to respect the men around me.

BabiesEverywhere

scoutfinch13 said:

That's a good point, @fabledmabel.  It seems that, as a gross generalization, we don't credit men with the ability to control themselves.  They most certainly can, and most do. 

I'm curious, though... Why are we so fearful of girls garnering attention from boys/men?  Is it a safety issue?  Do we not want our daughters to be slapped with the "slut" stigma?  What is it?  I've never heard or seen a heated debate about what boys should and should not wear. 

You ask a good question! I think it partially is a safety issue. Yes, we want to teach our men that a woman isn't asking for sex just by what she wears.
But between now & whenever that isn't a problem anymore, it can be a safety issue (although possibly only when combined with decisions that don't go together well - like being alone with men you don't really know & drinking way too much or something like that).

And I agree with @doribeth851‌ that boys/men just don't have as many clothing options. Their clothing generally covers most of their body anyways.

topaz7777

OK, my FFFC this week is

I am really bothered by MOtownMama's October Siggy challenge!!  That being said, nothing against you MOtownMama, It is the worst halloween fail I've ever seen and you totally have my vote!  But OMG has anyone even noticed what is going on with the dad and daughter??  How does that not bother anyone else in this picture?  YIKES!!!!!

BabiesEverywhere

fabledmabel said:

BabiesEverywhere said:

fabledmabel said:

I also choose to dress modestly, for my own reasons, but it is definitely not my, my daughter's, or any other woman's responsibility to keep a man from thinking a certain way. I give men's cognitive ability more credit than that

You don't think men ever have sexual thoughts about women that they don't want to have sexual thoughts about (ex. A married man fantasizing about a woman who isn't his wife)?

I'm not saying that if a man fantasizes about me, it's my fault. No no no, not at all. I don't view it as my responsibility to control men's thoughts. I do think though that if we expect men to respect women, we should expect women to respect men. Dressing modestly is my personal way to respect the men around me.

I think if a man (or woman) is fantasizing about someone they don't want to fantasize about, they are fully capable of stopping and not fantasizing about that person. Because we can absolutely control what we think about. Men are not slaves to their own sex drives

I agree with you that they are capable of stopping! But the initial thoughts would have still happened. If I see a hot guy, it is very rare for me to think about him later. If a man sees a hot girl who is scantily clad, he is a lot more likely to think of her later even if he's able to stop himself shortly. But some men don't even want to struggle with those initial thoughts.

topaz7777

souptin said:

topaz7777 said:

OK, my FFFC this week is

I am really bothered by MOtownMama's October Siggy challenge!!  That being said, nothing against you MOtownMama, It is the worst halloween fail I've ever seen and you totally have my vote!  But OMG has anyone even noticed what is going on with the dad and daughter??  How does that not bother anyone else in this picture?  YIKES!!!!!

You gotta actually tag the gal!

@MoTownMama

Thanks!  I knew I was forgetting something...  can I blame pregnancy brain for that?

ChanStew

AmyA401 said:

I'm certain I'm having a boy. When I get my anatomy scan Im gonna post PENIS PENIS PENIS. Or do you think anyone be upset by that?

Seems legit to me.

KayDeeKay81

LynnaF said:

And now I'm totally going to pass out genatalia-shaped cookies to announce. Thanks for the idea, guys.

it's just that I don't know if I could eat a vagina cookie....

BabiesEverywhere

fabledmabel said:

BabiesEverywhere said:

fabledmabel said:

BabiesEverywhere said:

fabledmabel said:

I also choose to dress modestly, for my own reasons, but it is definitely not my, my daughter's, or any other woman's responsibility to keep a man from thinking a certain way. I give men's cognitive ability more credit than that

You don't think men ever have sexual thoughts about women that they don't want to have sexual thoughts about (ex. A married man fantasizing about a woman who isn't his wife)?

I'm not saying that if a man fantasizes about me, it's my fault. No no no, not at all. I don't view it as my responsibility to control men's thoughts. I do think though that if we expect men to respect women, we should expect women to respect men. Dressing modestly is my personal way to respect the men around me.

I think if a man (or woman) is fantasizing about someone they don't want to fantasize about, they are fully capable of stopping and not fantasizing about that person. Because we can absolutely control what we think about. Men are not slaves to their own sex drives

I agree with you that they are capable of stopping! But the initial thoughts would have still happened. If I see a hot guy, it is very rare for me to think about him later. If a man sees a hot girl who is scantily clad, he is a lot more likely to think of her later even if he's able to stop himself shortly. But some men don't even want to struggle with those initial thoughts.

I'm still not sure you're giving men enough credit. If a man sees an attractive woman and she happens tk

BabiesEverywhere said:

fabledmabel said:

BabiesEverywhere said:

fabledmabel said:

I also choose to dress modestly, for my own reasons, but it is definitely not my, my daughter's, or any other woman's responsibility to keep a man from thinking a certain way. I give men's cognitive ability more credit than that

You don't think men ever have sexual thoughts about women that they don't want to have sexual thoughts about (ex. A married man fantasizing about a woman who isn't his wife)?

I'm not saying that if a man fantasizes about me, it's my fault. No no no, not at all. I don't view it as my responsibility to control men's thoughts. I do think though that if we expect men to respect women, we should expect women to respect men. Dressing modestly is my personal way to respect the men around me.

I think if a man (or woman) is fantasizing about someone they don't want to fantasize about, they are fully capable of stopping and not fantasizing about that person. Because we can absolutely control what we think about. Men are not slaves to their own sex drives

I agree with you that they are capable of stopping! But the initial thoughts would have still happened. If I see a hot guy, it is very rare for me to think about him later. If a man sees a hot girl who is scantily clad, he is a lot more likely to think of her later even if he's able to stop himself shortly. But some men don't even want to struggle with those initial thoughts.

I'm still not sure you're giving men enough credit.
And what difference does a "scantily clad" versus modestly dressed attractive woman make? If she is so spectacularly hot that he has no choice but to think about her, I'm not sure her wardrobe choices will sway him one way or the other.

You make a good point. I just think covering up a little more can help. But that line of thought can obviously be taken too far like in some Middle Eastern countries where women have to cover their entire body.

Either way, I think it's helpful to view the situation both ways - men respect women, women respect men. You better believe if we have a boy that he'll be held accountable for the way he treats women. And I know I won't be controlling what my daughter wears forever. But I would like her to continue to dress modestly when in public.

And I also agree with y'all's ultimate point that there is a problem with teaching girls to fear their own sexuality. But I think there is a happy medium where appreciating & respecting her sexuality doesn't mean flaunting it in public. I am completely intimidated by actually teaching a child this though. Seriously, this is like the #1 area I'm afraid of messing our kids up in.

BabiesEverywhere

fabledmabel said:

KayDeeKay81 said:

LynnaF said:

And now I'm totally going to pass out genatalia-shaped cookies to announce. Thanks for the idea, guys.

it's just that I don't know if I could eat a vagina cookie....

I could! If it's a cookie I'm not concerned with how it looks - only how it tastes.

-----------------------------------------

Exactly. Give me all the cookies.

aeith11

fabledmabel said:

LynnaF said:

And now I'm totally going to pass out genatalia-shaped cookies to announce. Thanks for the idea, guys.

it's just that I don't know if I could eat a vagina cookie....

I could! If it's a cookie I'm not concerned with how it looks - only how it tastes.

Oh I will eat yours then... all you have to do is not look

Unknown

This content has been removed.

aeith11

getoffmyballs said:

Kitty litter brownies. Enjoy.

Oh God...that's awful

jlworden710

yesterday, my day went from shit to magical all due to a large order of perfectly salted, perfectly cooked McDonald's french fries.... its the little things.

Yaz14

BabiesEverywhere said:

Yaz14 said:

scoutfinch13 said:

 

Yaz14 said:

My first confession is that I have no idea what FFFC stands for. I get that the last two letters must stand for Friday Confessions but no idea what the first two F's stand for. Apparently they don't stand for Flame Free. My second confession is that I keep talking about how I'll have nothing to do once I finish work in a few weeks but secretly I'm a lazy bitch and I'm gonna love it.

I'm pretty sure this has been covered.  Multiple times. 

Probably but this is the first time I've ever come across this thread.

-----------edit: quote fail-------------

But did you even read this thread? It's already been covered once in this same thread. On the first page.

No admittedly I did not read the rest of this thread but thank you for pointing it out.

BabiesEverywhere

fabledmabel said:

BabiesEverywhere said:

fabledmabel said:

BabiesEverywhere said:

fabledmabel said:

BabiesEverywhere said:

fabledmabel said:

I also choose to dress modestly, for my own reasons, but it is definitely not my, my daughter's, or any other woman's responsibility to keep a man from thinking a certain way. I give men's cognitive ability more credit than that

You don't think men ever have sexual thoughts about women that they don't want to have sexual thoughts about (ex. A married man fantasizing about a woman who isn't his wife)?

I'm not saying that if a man fantasizes about me, it's my fault. No no no, not at all. I don't view it as my responsibility to control men's thoughts. I do think though that if we expect men to respect women, we should expect women to respect men. Dressing modestly is my personal way to respect the men around me.

I think if a man (or woman) is fantasizing about someone they don't want to fantasize about, they are fully capable of stopping and not fantasizing about that person. Because we can absolutely control what we think about. Men are not slaves to their own sex drives

I agree with you that they are capable of stopping! But the initial thoughts would have still happened. If I see a hot guy, it is very rare for me to think about him later. If a man sees a hot girl who is scantily clad, he is a lot more likely to think of her later even if he's able to stop himself shortly. But some men don't even want to struggle with those initial thoughts.

I'm still not sure you're giving men enough credit. If a man sees an attractive woman and she happens tk

BabiesEverywhere said:

fabledmabel said:

BabiesEverywhere said:

fabledmabel said:

I also choose to dress modestly, for my own reasons, but it is definitely not my, my daughter's, or any other woman's responsibility to keep a man from thinking a certain way. I give men's cognitive ability more credit than that

You don't think men ever have sexual thoughts about women that they don't want to have sexual thoughts about (ex. A married man fantasizing about a woman who isn't his wife)?

I'm not saying that if a man fantasizes about me, it's my fault. No no no, not at all. I don't view it as my responsibility to control men's thoughts. I do think though that if we expect men to respect women, we should expect women to respect men. Dressing modestly is my personal way to respect the men around me.

I think if a man (or woman) is fantasizing about someone they don't want to fantasize about, they are fully capable of stopping and not fantasizing about that person. Because we can absolutely control what we think about. Men are not slaves to their own sex drives

I agree with you that they are capable of stopping! But the initial thoughts would have still happened. If I see a hot guy, it is very rare for me to think about him later. If a man sees a hot girl who is scantily clad, he is a lot more likely to think of her later even if he's able to stop himself shortly. But some men don't even want to struggle with those initial thoughts.

I'm still not sure you're giving men enough credit.
And what difference does a "scantily clad" versus modestly dressed attractive woman make? If she is so spectacularly hot that he has no choice but to think about her, I'm not sure her wardrobe choices will sway him one way or the other.

You make a good point. I just think covering up a little more can help. But that line of thought can obviously be taken too far like in some Middle Eastern countries where women have to cover their entire body.

Either way, I think it's helpful to view the situation both ways - men respect women, women respect men. You better believe if we have a boy that he'll be held accountable for the way he treats women. And I know I won't be controlling what my daughter wears forever. But I would like her to continue to dress modestly when in public.

And I also agree with y'all's ultimate point that there is a problem with teaching girls to fear their own sexuality. But I think there is a happy medium where appreciating & respecting her sexuality doesn't mean flaunting it in public. I am completely intimidated by actually teaching a child this though. Seriously, this is like the #1 area I'm afraid of messing our kids up in.

I think it's important to show our kids that sexuality is not something to be afraid or ashamed of, but it is something to be responsible with. Much like many other aspects of who they are.

That was beautifully said.

My parents never really had "the talk" with me and just aren't publicly affectionate in general so I really want to make sure that sex isn't a taboo topic in our home. Because I think I carried some emotional baggage into my marriage as a result of some poor choices I made that I feel like could have been guided better by my parents. But now I feel like I'm just getting on a tangent.

BabiesEverywhere

MOtownMama said:

Just because the "theme" of this post, ie society's view of sexy women, reminded me...

One of the funniest things I've heard is that when MH was growing up, his mom would stand in front of the TV during a Victoria ' s Secret commercial was on and say, "This is not what real women look like!"

Bahahahaha that is hilarious.

Duffgurl

getoffmyballs said:

Kitty litter brownies. Enjoy.

OMG So making these for my SIL who despises cats and all animals. LOL.

EmmaSF

Cali2090 said:

I feel bad writing this because she is so sweet- my confession? Since being pregnant, a lot of things turn my stomach and induce my nausea and one of them is eating dinner with my MIL! She chews with her mouth open/talks while it's full of food and gets it all stuck in her front teeth. It's like a car accident.... I can't look away- yet I feel I could vomit or full out belly gag at any second. Yuk! Did I mention she's sweet?

OMG- my MIL grosses me out when she eats too! She also can't seem to keep her mascara on her lashes or her lipstick off her teeth. Sometime just looking at her irritates me these days- I feel bad and I would like to blame pregnancy but she has always driven me mildly batty.

Yaz14

MOtownMama said:

Yaz14 said:

BabiesEverywhere said:

Yaz14 said:

scoutfinch13 said:

 

Yaz14 said:

My first confession is that I have no idea what FFFC stands for. I get that the last two letters must stand for Friday Confessions but no idea what the first two F's stand for. Apparently they don't stand for Flame Free. My second confession is that I keep talking about how I'll have nothing to do once I finish work in a few weeks but secretly I'm a lazy bitch and I'm gonna love it.

I'm pretty sure this has been covered.  Multiple times. 

Probably but this is the first time I've ever come across this thread.

-----------edit: quote fail-------------

But did you even read this thread? It's already been covered once in this same thread. On the first page.

No admittedly I did not read the rest of this thread but thank you for pointing it out.

For future reference, it's considered a bit taboo to respond without reading other's responses. Why should we listen to your opinion we you obviously couldn't give a shit about ours? Also, many times someone might have already mentioned your point which would just make you look like a repeating idiot.

No one had to point out that you didn't read the thread. It was obvious since you were asking a question that was already discussed....on page one. It's not like it was in the middle of an 11 page thread.

Yeah I don't know why this is still going. I admitted I didn't know what it meant, someone cleared it up for me. End of. I don't read through every post in every thread.

BabiesEverywhere

CaterinaC said:

BabiesEverywhere said:

You ask a good question! I think it partially is a safety issue. Yes, we want to teach our men that a woman isn't asking for sex just by what she wears.
But between now & whenever that isn't a problem anymore, it can be a safety issue (although possibly only when combined with decisions that don't go together well - like being alone with men you don't really know & drinking way too much or something like that).

It is naive to believe that clothing a female wears has much to with whether a male fanatizes about her or not. Lots of men fanatize about librarians, cops, nurses, etc. Last time I checked all of those women wear very conservative clothing. Sex is more then visual, even for men.

I am sorry but part of what you are doing is victim shaming. I assume by "safety issue" you are referring to rape.To say that a women shouldn't wear "that piece of clothing" or drink with "those men" or "drink that much alcohol" in any combination is placing the blame on the victim of a horrible crime. Plus those factors have little to do with actual rape crimes.

1) Rape has nothing to do with what you are wearing - lots of women raped wearing ugly conservative clothing. Lots of elderly people are raped.
2)The vast majority of rapes are committed by people that we know and trust
3)We have to stop shaming women for drinking alcohol. Being passed out is not consent and I believe that men are fully aware of that.

Rape is about power and control, not sex. It is about the thrill of taking what you want by overpowering another.

I was absolutely not trying to victim shame. Rape is always solely the rapist's fault.

But are you really trying to tell me that getting wasted around men you don't know is a good idea? To an extent, women can try not to put themselves in situations where they have a higher risk of being harmed. Just like a woman who takes pepper spray with her when she goes running by herself.

Part of the reason we're even having this discussion is because we all acknowledge that a lot of men need to do a better job of controlling themselves & how they treat women. It would be naive and dumb to not act in a way that recognizes that as a reality in our current world.

Ncountrygal

I had to step out to bake a birthday cake. Pumpkin with cream cheese frosting yumyum. Now I'm back to the debate.

I intended to comment on the wider view of fashion choices, not just booby baring! I chose the sexy top over sweatpants because I didn't find public sweatpant-wearing too controversial. Since I clearly started something by accident, I guess I'll just keep on with it ...

So yes! I think a healthy view of sexuality needs to be developed in both sexes. This is far more an issue of behavior and morals than fashion. I think what clothing you choose to put on has more to do with your own self respect than "dressing for others". However, you do go out in public and to an extent your clothing choices communicate your self-image to those around you. So, boys, clean up. Don't smell bad. Chose situationally appropriate outfits. Gals, same thing!

Everyone will have a different understanding of what's appropriate but by all means teach that to your kids! It's a combination lesson in good manners and good taste.

Edited for terrible spelling

Ncountrygal

Oh geeze, after all of this I realized I've been entertaining my inlaws all afternoon with my bra showing. I eat my words!

Edited to add that I have not as yet fixed the problem.

BabiesEverywhere

scoutfinch13 said:

BabiesEverywhere said:

You ask a good question! I think it partially is a safety issue. Yes, we want to teach our men that a woman isn't asking for sex just by what she wears. But between now & whenever that isn't a problem anymore, it can be a safety issue (although possibly only when combined with decisions that don't go together well - like being alone with men you don't really know & drinking way too much or something like that).

It is naive to believe that clothing a female wears has much to with whether a male fanatizes about her or not. Lots of men fanatize about librarians, cops, nurses, etc. Last time I checked all of those women wear very conservative clothing. Sex is more then visual, even for men. I am sorry but part of what you are doing is victim shaming. I assume by "safety issue" you are referring to rape.To say that a women shouldn't wear "that piece of clothing" or drink with "those men" or "drink that much alcohol" in any combination is placing the blame on the victim of a horrible crime. Plus those factors have little to do with actual rape crimes. 1) Rape has nothing to do with what you are wearing - lots of women raped wearing ugly conservative clothing. Lots of elderly people are raped. 2)The vast majority of rapes are committed by people that we know and trust 3)We have to stop shaming women for drinking alcohol. Being passed out is not consent and I believe that men are fully aware of that. Rape is about power and control, not sex. It is about the thrill of taking what you want by overpowering another.

I was absolutely not trying to victim shame. Rape is always solely the rapist's fault. But are you really trying to tell me that getting wasted around men you don't know is a good idea? To an extent, women can try not to put themselves in situations where they have a higher risk of being harmed. Just like a woman who takes pepper spray with her when she goes running by herself. Part of the reason we're even having this discussion is because we all acknowledge that a lot of men need to do a better job of controlling themselves & how they treat women. It would be naive and dumb to not act in a way that recognizes that as a reality in our current world.

I don't want to speak for @CaterinaC, but I have a few problems with this.

1.  With this kind of outlook, we are basically saying there are things that are OK for men to do  that aren't OK for women to do (in this case, get drunk).  Now, should anyone be getting drunk?  Probably not.  Both your judgment and coordination are impaired when you do.  But to say it's more dangerous for women because of the risk of assault just adds to the "she was asking for it" or "she put herself in that situation" defense. 

2. I don't think it's naive and dumb to give the middle finger to anyone who cautions girls/women to behave or look a certain way such that they will dissuade men from noticing them in an attempt to thwart would-be predators.  If men are the would-be predators, women are the would-be victims.  Fuck that. 

3. I think men will do "a better job of controlling themselves and how they treat women" when women start holding them responsible for doing so, rather than taking it upon themselves to prevent unwanted male behavior.

--------------quote fail--------------

But you can't deny that men are often physically stronger than women. And you can ultimately only control yourself. So yes, I will caution my daughters and my sons about the situations they put themselves in NOT because I would put any blame on them if something happened to them but because I want them to be safe. Period. End of story.

And @CaterinaC‌, you're absolutely right that not all rapes happen when people are drunk or with strangers. But if I can eliminate the possibility of harm happening during those types of situations, why wouldn't I?

Also - I'm about to leave on a long drive so I won't be able to post for several hours. I don't mean to post & run but at the same time I feel like I've spoken my piece so it's a good time to take a break anyways.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

Cali2090

scoutfinch13 said:

Ncountrygal said:

On the topic of child-style, there's a little boy I know who likes to wear his sister's flowery galoshes with a dragon cape. It's very kickass. And for my flame worthy confession, I think it's fine to influence your kid's taste in clothes - you influence their other tastes too. Let them exercise their own choices, style, and personality, but within reasonable boundaries. For example, no daughter of mine will be wearing booby-baring tops or super short shorts as long as she lives in my house. Unacceptable.

I guess I don't really understand this.  I think we do girls a disservice (to an extent) when we teach them that their outward sexuality is "bad."  Some people are just more modest than others.  If my daughter does her best in school, is responsible and honest, and I trust her judgment, then she can wear short shorts.  Or show some cleavage.  Or whatever. 


I agree with ncountrygal but in no way do I think a woman's sexuality is bad and I wouldn't want my daughter thinking that either. I want my daughter to take away from me encouraging her to dress modestly that is important to respect yourself and a lot of times women don't come across like they respect themselves when they're letting everything hang out. Whether or not they do isn't the point because society does judge a book by its cover. As I've gotten older, I have learned that women that dress incredibly provocatively also attract a lot of attention and most of the time it's negative. Do I think showing a little cleavage is bad? Of course not. Do I think shorts that aren't to the knee are bad? No but when you're wearing shorts that your butt cheeks hang out of and wearing a shirt that shows 70% of your breasts, you don't leave much up to the imagination and it sends a message wether you intend it to or not. Overall I think the biggest thing that my parents taught me when they encouraged me to dress modestly growing up was that my self-worth wasn't in my appearance and the amount of whistles or attention I could get by putting myself on display. Just my two cents

Cali2090

scoutfinch13 said:

Cali2090 said:

Ncountrygal said:

On the topic of child-style, there's a little boy I know who likes to wear his sister's flowery galoshes with a dragon cape. It's very kickass. And for my flame worthy confession, I think it's fine to influence your kid's taste in clothes - you influence their other tastes too. Let them exercise their own choices, style, and personality, but within reasonable boundaries. For example, no daughter of mine will be wearing booby-baring tops or super short shorts as long as she lives in my house. Unacceptable.

I guess I don't really understand this.  I think we do girls a disservice (to an extent) when we teach them that their outward sexuality is "bad."  Some people are just more modest than others.  If my daughter does her best in school, is responsible and honest, and I trust her judgment, then she can wear short shorts.  Or show some cleavage.  Or whatever. 

I agree with ncountrygal but in no way do I think a woman's sexuality is bad and I wouldn't want my daughter thinking that either. I want my daughter to take away from me encouraging her to dress modestly that is important to respect yourself and a lot of times women don't come across like they respect themselves when they're letting everything hang out. Whether or not they do isn't the point because society does judge a book by its cover. As I've gotten older, I have learned that woman that dress incredibly provocatively also attract a lot of attention and most of the time it's negative. Do I think showing a little cleavage is bad? Of course not. Do I think shorts that aren't to the knee are bad? No but when you're wearing shorts that your butt cheeks hang out of and wearing a shirt that shows 70% of your breasts, you don't leave much up to the imagination and it sends a message wether you intend it to or not. Overall I think the biggest thing that my parents taught me when they encouraged me to dress modestly growing up was that my self-worth wasn't in my appearance and the amount of whistles or attention I could get by putting myself on display. Just my two cents

1.  I'm sorry, but whether or not they respect themselves IS the point.  If you are judging women who dress a certain way, you are adding to the problem, not subtracting.   

2.  What message does it send?  I'm curious. 

Please do not put words in my mouth - I did not saying I am judging women that dress that way- society does in general. Of coarse if a woman respects herself it is important but I am saying it isn't the point to a random person that is walking by her. They don't care if she respects herself- she is sending a message but by the way she's presenting herself. If you listen to high school kids talk- the message it sends to young guys ( and most likely older ones to) is that that girl is 'easy' because of the way her outfit is inviting attention. And I agree with the above posts that men are definitely not faultless either but to blame it solely on them and take no responsibility for how you present yourself isn't fair either.

Cali2090

scoutfinch13 said:

Cali2090 said:

scoutfinch13 said:

Cali2090 said:

Ncountrygal said:

On the topic of child-style, there's a little boy I know who likes to wear his sister's flowery galoshes with a dragon cape. It's very kickass. And for my flame worthy confession, I think it's fine to influence your kid's taste in clothes - you influence their other tastes too. Let them exercise their own choices, style, and personality, but within reasonable boundaries. For example, no daughter of mine will be wearing booby-baring tops or super short shorts as long as she lives in my house. Unacceptable.

I guess I don't really understand this.  I think we do girls a disservice (to an extent) when we teach them that their outward sexuality is "bad."  Some people are just more modest than others.  If my daughter does her best in school, is responsible and honest, and I trust her judgment, then she can wear short shorts.  Or show some cleavage.  Or whatever. 

I agree with ncountrygal but in no way do I think a woman's sexuality is bad and I wouldn't want my daughter thinking that either. I want my daughter to take away from me encouraging her to dress modestly that is important to respect yourself and a lot of times women don't come across like they respect themselves when they're letting everything hang out. Whether or not they do isn't the point because society does judge a book by its cover. As I've gotten older, I have learned that woman that dress incredibly provocatively also attract a lot of attention and most of the time it's negative. Do I think showing a little cleavage is bad? Of course not. Do I think shorts that aren't to the knee are bad? No but when you're wearing shorts that your butt cheeks hang out of and wearing a shirt that shows 70% of your breasts, you don't leave much up to the imagination and it sends a message wether you intend it to or not. Overall I think the biggest thing that my parents taught me when they encouraged me to dress modestly growing up was that my self-worth wasn't in my appearance and the amount of whistles or attention I could get by putting myself on display. Just my two cents

1.  I'm sorry, but whether or not they respect themselves IS the point.  If you are judging women who dress a certain way, you are adding to the problem, not subtracting.   

2.  What message does it send?  I'm curious. 

Please do not put words in my mouth - I did not saying I am judging women that dress that way- society does in general. Of coarse if a woman respects herself it is important but I am saying it isn't the point to a random person that is walking by her. They don't care if she respects herself- she is sending a message but by the way she's presenting herself. If you listen to high school kids talk- the message it sends to young guys ( and most likely older ones to) is that that girl is 'easy' because of the way her outfit is inviting attention. And I agree with the above posts that men are definitely not faultless either but to blame it solely on them and take no responsibility for how you present yourself isn't fair either.
----------
Horseshit

Agree to disagree

Cali2090

EmmaSF said:

Cali2090 said:

I feel bad writing this because she is so sweet- my confession? Since being pregnant, a lot of things turn my stomach and induce my nausea and one of them is eating dinner with my MIL! She chews with her mouth open/talks while it's full of food and gets it all stuck in her front teeth. It's like a car accident.... I can't look away- yet I feel I could vomit or full out belly gag at any second. Yuk! Did I mention she's sweet?

OMG- my MIL grosses me out when she eats too! She also can't seem to keep her mascara on her lashes or her lipstick off her teeth. Sometime just looking at her irritates me these days- I feel bad and I would like to blame pregnancy but she has always driven me mildly batty.


This made me lol! I have never really noticed the eating thing till pregnancy and I don't know how much more I can take hahaha!!!

jk3610

Rape culture is alive and real thanks to people's backwards attitudes like that. Anyway, i missed all that while i was at work. Lol. My FFC: i literally do not give a shit what the baby's nursery looks like. DH is in charge and the one with the plan and i couldn't be happier!

Edit: my first thought was directed to @Cali2090‌ and possibly out of context since i didn't feel like reading the other pages. We had too much drama here yesterday and i got lazy.

Cali2090

CaterinaC said:

Cali2090 said:

If you listen to high school kids talk- the message it sends to young guys ( and most likely older ones to) is that that girl is 'easy' because of the way her outfit is inviting attention. And I agree with the above posts that men are definitely not faultless either but to blame it solely on them and take no responsibility for how you present yourself isn't fair either.

Sorry, but I just noticed this comment.

How do high school boys come to the conclusion that girls who wear certain clothing are "Easy"?

It's not something that they just make up themselves. We perpetuate the idea by spending messages to our children that society believes that women are looking for "negative", aka sexual, attention by wearing certain clothing. By saying "you shouldn't wear that because other people will think you are easy" reinforces the idea that men should think you are easy if you wear that. We have to interpret the cycle.

These aren't facts of life, they are things that continue because women and men reinforce them.

I agree with you and there will always be people like that which is why it's important to watch the way you dress. And for the record, I would never say to my daughter you shouldn't wear that because people are going to think you're easy! In my mind there are a lot of lot of positive reasons to dress modestly not solely for how others portray you, that is what I focused on due to how this conversation all got started to begin with. And where these kids get the idea is through media, as well as parental figures, but it's also from their peers. And @CaterinaC‌ to take that comment and assume I am personally judging these women is out of context. For all you know I could be speaking about personal experience or experiences of good friends and reflecting on them.

Edited to add- if you read all of my comments I absolutely do not think all of the blame should be placed on women!! Men have a responsibility to respect women and vice versa.

Rowsdower85

I know there's a lot going on in this thread right now, but I just really need to confess this to someone. And who better to confide in than Internet strangers? Anyway, I skipped a big church party tonight (I pulled the morning sickness card, and before I get flamed for that, just know that I've already thrown up twice today) so I could stay home and watch the premiere of Kendra on Top. You know, the ex-playboy bunny whose husband cheated on her with a transsexual? Yea, that garbage.

I'm the Pastor's wife.

amandamarie2

I'm so mad at my neighbours right now. We live in an apartment building and share recycling with the apartment beside us. With our past two sets of neighbours we just kind of informally took turns alternating who took it out and brought it back each week. If you got there first, you took it. These girls never do anything but continue to fill it up and add things that can't be recycled (no, the giant coat rack is not recyclable). This weekend they're apparently gone for Thanksgiving and left their garbage in the hall, apparently wanting us to take that as well. I really want to just leave it but the smell is already driving me crazy. I'm really starting to get annoyed with their crap. Clean up after yourselves! I left a note about the recycling earlier this week so I'll leave another one about the garbage now but if it continues I will be considerably less polite about it and possibly talk to the landlady.

Rowsdower85

@scoutfinch13‌ I'm so sorry your father reacted that way. Good for you for pressing charges, I'm sure that was tough too.

Edited for crappy grammar.

Cali2090

@scoutfinch13‌ Brave of you to share your story and I'm also sorry for how your dad responded. I think some of what I am saying is being misconstrued or I'm not explaining myself properly if anyone thinks I would ever think that would be your fault! You could've been in a bra and panties and I would never think 'you asked for it' or 'invited that upon yourself'.... never ever. Glad he didn't have a weapon and that you were ok. And for the record I am sensitive to the subject as well as I was also attacked, about three years ago walking my dog in broad daylight. He chased me and then cornered me up against a house. A complete stranger. I still have nightmares. So in no way am I defending the man and like I said, clearly my posts are not being written properly if people do not think I am on team 'women'. My religious views definitely influence my opinions on dressing appropriately and clearly some of our opinions differ on what 'appropriate' means and for that I won't apologize. However, I think we all agree that men are responsible for their actions and in a violent crime or attack women are not to blame if they are targeted!!!

Ncountrygal

scoutfinch13 said:

****Trigger Warning****
****Long Ass Post Warning****






I was assaulted. By someone I knew. I was a bartender in NYC while attending college, and my shift ended at 4am. The guy who assaulted me was a bouncer at the bar where I worked. I considered him a friend. He would often walk me to the subway after my shift. One night, while walking me to the station, he pushed me up against a wall and kissed me. I was so taken aback that I didn't really react at first, but when I realized what was happening I tried to wriggle away. He was huge, and overpowered me easily. He started pawing, so I did the only thing I could... I bit him. Hard. And did not let go. He yelled, smacked me, and ran.

I pressed charges and he got fired. I was lucky that he didn't have a weapon. He said when he was questioned that he "thought I was interested" and it was a "misunderstanding."

The worst part was telling my dad, who said something like "you should never have put yourself in that situation. I know how you dress for work and I know you drink with customers during your shifts. You're lucky it wasn't worse." Something to that effect.

I was a good student attending an Ivy League school. I had never been in trouble. I paid my own rent on my own apartment. I'd had a job since I was 14. But all my father saw was the shame of having a daughter stigmatized as a "girl who was asking for it."

I often ask myself what I would want my own daughter to take away from my experience. What would I tell her to do differently? The answer is nothing. Nothing at all. What I was wearing, the fact that I had been drinking, the fact that it was nearly 5 in the morning, none of that was the reason this dick attacked me.

I'm putting this out there because A) I want people to know why I'm so intense on this issue, and maybe someone will think twice before telling her daughter that "if you do X, you're sending Y message." If something DOES happen to her, she'll always wonder what she should have done differently, and you will have planted that seed of self-doubt. Instead make sure she knows that it's NEVER her fault if someone hurts her, regardless of the circumstances.

I couldn't agree more. I've never been through anything like that, thank God, but if it happens to any of my daughters I hope they and I are as level headed as you! Teaching ways to stay safe is like defensive driving; helpful, but other drivers still shit on you.

saltymcsnarkerson

Group hugs all around - thank you for sharing your experiences.

redneckmomma25

Just want to say that this has given me lots of food for thought. Especially with raising a daughter. 

I will also confess that I do not like football fans on facebook on Sundays.  I don't like football. I just kinda stay off or keep scrolling. 

f