Behavioral issues

mae0111

I am at my wits' end.  DD1(5 y.o.) has been behaving horribly over the last month, and it just seems to be getting worse.  Constant tantrums, screaming, hitting, kicking, telling DH, nanny, and I that we're stupid and other awful things.

DH, nanny, and I have been consistent with her.  We don't lose our tempers (because it doesn't do any good).  We escort her to timeout in her room, and she runs out.  We try to take her back, and she kicks us.  We have started taking away toys and privileges. Right now, there are no toys in her room.  None.  We've taken everything out so that she doesn't enjoy time out. 

This started when school started.  I have pieced together that there are a couple of really nasty kids in the classroom, and that I don't think the teachers have good control over the classroom.  I think she's seen kids behave like this with no consequences, so she's mimicking at home.  We are considering pulling her out of school.  I've spoken to the teacher about the mean kids, and plan to talk to the administration, but I highly doubt that they're going to question a teacher that's been there for 10 years, or remove kids from the classroom. It's Pre-K, which is not required in this state, so if I can't find somewhere else for her to go, we can just keep her home.  It's not ideal, but we can't take much more of this.

Any advice, or experience with similar issues?

Kewii

How long of a day is she at pre-k?  Is she only like this on those days?

mae0111

Kewii said:

How long of a day is she at pre-k?  Is she only like this on those days?

Her day is 7:45-1:45 MWF.  Mon she sometimes stays until 4 for a piano lesson, but I was able to pick her up and bring her back later.  TuTh she's home with her sister and our nanny.  She goes to bed between 7 and 7:30pm, and gets up at 6:45 on school days, 7:15-7:30 other days.  She sometimes naps for an hour in the afternoon, but not every day.  If she doesn't sleep, she at least has "down time" in her room.

She's like this almost all the time.  She spent a ton of time in timeout over the weekend. 

I have now noticed that my 1.5 year old DD2 has started biting her nails, specifically during DD1's outbursts.  I'm not the only one who noticed - my nanny commented on it the other day.

mittensonkittens

My first thought is to wonder if there is something stressing her out at school and she is bringing those feelings home. Is another child being mean to her? Is she not adjusting to the structure? Is something scaring her? I would ask the teacher if there is anything that might be upsetting her. And ask about her behavior during school. Is she acting out? Is she really quiet and withdrawn? Is she making friends?

emberlee3

Wow.  That sounds very difficult.  I agree with PP that you may need professional help just to figure out a new approach.  If a little punishment doesn't work, then a lot of punishment is not going to work, either.  The school issue seems like a big problem.  I personally would not keep my child (especially pre-K) in a school environment that was not healthy.  Pre-K should be safe, fun, exciting, stimulating.  Not stressful.  To me, that is just going to set up a bad dynamic regarding school well into the future.  I don't know if you need to move her, but you definitely need to meet with the teacher and director and come up with a plan together.

dashofreality

While I agree that consistency is important, when what you are doing isn't working I think it is time to try something else. I have found that I can get into a cycle of punishment and it just spirals into a battle of wills that I am not willing to win. I think that punishment has a place, but when my DD and I are stuck, stepping back and really focusing on empathy, finding out what is bothering her, and finding ways to give her as much control/autonomy is really important.

Just a guess, but I doubt that she is as much mimicking, as acting out because she feels out of control. I would try role playing or acting out scenarios with stuffed animals at school, physical contact/rough housing, and empathy talk 'I see you are angry because of x, is there something else that is making you mad?'

I never thought I would be a 'touchy feely' parent, but I am finding that the gentle parenting works best for us (at least so far with my DD). I like the Aha Parent blog and the book Playful Parenting. I will still do timeouts, but I find that when I really focus on laying the groundwork for understanding DD's feelings, giving her autonomy, and making as few things as possible 'do as I say because I said so', I rarely have to discipline her.

Oh and if you really think it is the environment, I would definitely pull her. I pulled my DD out of a daycare after 2 weeks because she was unhappy. She wasn't thrilled about going but didn't complain, but she was acting out and would burst into tears over small things at night. It was very out of character and stopped when we moved her. GL!

2chatter

I would conference with the teacher to get more information. Some kids just have a hard time with the school transition, and the teacher might have some insight. I also get lots of great info from other parents - things I don't know about the schedule or the way things work (like no talking at lunch) - just things DDs haven't told me, but are affecting them. Having that information might help you select a different program based on what it is that is affecting DD. I am all for a calculated change, but not a change because this doesn't work without full understanding of why.

mae0111

Thank you all for your perspectives.  It's been extremely stressful.  I reached out to DD's pediatrician, just to rule out anything physiological since the change happened so quickly.

Getting a bit more info from DD, these kids are calling each other stupid, saying that they hate their moms, even threatening to kill.  They're too little to know what this means, but still awful.  We ask where the teachers are when this is happening, and she always says that they're at their work station.

I have a meeting with the lead teacher and the principal on Friday.  Originally it was going to be to try to resolve this, but now I think it's going to be to pull her out of school.  I found another school that can take her part time.  I explained the concerns and issues, and the head of the school explained how they address everything.  She went there before, and left for the new school because it was a prek-8 option.  She had a great experience at the other school, and I'm comfortable sending her back.

junebugrbig

janemski said:

Taking her out of school seems like she will just be at home tantruming all day. You said your weekends are bad, so don't make every day bad. How is her behavior at school? How about having her talk to a psychologist? It helped my son when he was having school issues at 5.

This...we had significant issues with DS when he transitioned from pre-school/daycare to camp/kindy.  The counselor was more for us than DS...helped us sort out triggers, how to prevent the behavior, how to manage it when its happening, and handling the aftermath.  Helped us tremendously.

If you have any doubts about the pre-school, I would find another school.  

Kewii

It's a big red flag to me that the teachers seem to be at their work stations often. Even with my sixth graders I know I can't stay at my desk or there will be trouble. They should know better.

CarrieB.

You may want to try meditation. We do a count backwards from 5 to calm breathing excercise that helps. but honestly, we try to just let DD tantrum when she needs to and ignore it. I just tell her to do it in another room. I think that yelling at her just encourages her to act out more.

I recommend the book Peaceful Piggy Meditation. Kids can be under a lot of stress and just breathing and learning how to calm down can help.

mae0111

Kewii said:

It's a big red flag to me that the teachers seem to be at their work stations often. Even with my sixth graders I know I can't stay at my desk or there will be trouble. They should know better.

I thought so too.  DD is 5, and is one of the oldest kids in the class.  Most are still 4.  It seems like they're left to their own devices a lot.  Independent play is important, but I keep hearing about pushing, shoving, hitting, I-hate-you's, you-can't-play-with-me's, you're-stupid's, and the teachers are NEVER around.  

It seems like she's in with a few bad kids, and while last year's teacher did an excellent job controlling the classroom (only 7 kids, bad ones included), this one can't seem to do that.