UO's?

tbmadeamistake

I put this one on the parenting board, but I'll stick it here, too.

If I wasn't worried that I would get arrested, I'd be fine leaving my kids in the car to run a five minute errand provided it wasn't freezing or stiflingly hot outside.

tbmadeamistake

Agreed with the car turned off and locked.

cinnamonsmiles

mullenem said:

Lilygrace48 said:

I put this one on the parenting board, but I'll stick it here, too. If I wasn't worried that I would get arrested, I'd be fine leaving my kids in the car to run a five minute errand provided it wasn't freezing or stiflingly hot outside.

I agree with this only if the place I'm running into is small and has a lot of windows and parking right out front.  Also, car needs to be locked, no keys in the ignition.  I probably wouldn't feel comfortable running into a building that was all enclosed even for a few minutes.

I think about this all the time.
My favorite coffee place has tons of windows, but taking him inside in his carseat always invariably wakes him up.
And considering how often I traveling by myself, it sure would be nice to be able to use the bathroom sans carseat/stroller

tbmadeamistake

I think this honestly comes from how I was raised. My parents did it all the time. Short time and generally in a safe neighborhood. Once my aunt and uncle left my brother, myself and our two cousins jmin a pickup truck cab for an hour while aunt went shopping...but they are from England where things are a little more relaxed anyway. Crime rates now are even lower than when I was a child, but because of media being right in our face all the time, people feel less safe. I just wish I had the freedom to parent how I like without worrying about getting arrested for things I don't think are a big deal.

diagonalley

mrstgp said:

I think if you are over 11/12 and not going out with younger kids you shouldn't be trick or treating. Last year we had a bunch of older teens show up and just stick out their bags and walk away.

I don't think we'll get trick or treaters living in the middle of nowhere, but when I still lived at home with my parents who live in a neighborhood with a sidewalk, if you don't say trick or treat, you don't get candy.  There were some awkward silences for sure.

JNerd

Um.... No. The only time I have ever left my kids in the car was when I was running to an ATM vestibule because that location didn't have a drive through. Back in the car in less than a minute. Anything more than that and the kids come with me. Period. Also, I am glad that laws exist regarding child safety- and that they change the way people parent, regardless of if it is what the parent wants to do or not. Those laws exist for a reason!

Brittnic531

Yes, I agree that leaving LO in the car for a short errand would be convenient, but being a parent isn't about convenience.  Accidents can happen at any time and if there is anything I can do to prevent an accident from occurring, then I will.  I can't tell you how many people I know who's cars have been hit while parked in a lot.  Imagine if your kid was in there... you did everything right, but you can't control other people and it only takes a second.  I also don't believe those laws are there to force people to parent a certain way because they feel like this is what's best (as in, their way is the best way for everyone and the parent's way is wrong)... what is common sense to you and I, is not common sense to someone else... they have those laws in place to try to help those kids who can't help themselves.  

FAWKES81

I left my LO in my car the other night for a few minutes.  I forgot to grab the redbox movie when I left home to carry supper to DH at work (this was around 8 pm) and of course the movie has be be back by 9.  LO was fast asleep in the carseat and would have woken up/raised holy hell if I'd brought him in the house.  I literally pulled into my driveway, cut off car & locked it, came in house and turned off alarm, grabbed movie and reset alarm/locked up house.  It might have taken all of 3 minutes at the most.  I was terrified something was going to happen and while in the living room getting the movie would have sworn I heard LO crying.  I get outside and he is still fast asleep.

Lilygrace48  (obviously if I did it myself) but this was in my own driveway.  There is NO WAY my nerves could have taken this if I were in a public place.  Somewhere in all that there is a point, but I'm not sure exactly what it is.!  X_X

jacksoha

I understand what your saying @Lilygrace48‌, we use cash for gas and groceries to help maintain a budget and it is really frustrating to have to take LO out of the car to run in and pay for my gas with cash. But on the other hand I'm terrified that someone will hit my car if I left her in there. I have definitely left LO in my car while unloading groceries at home. Either I leave her in the house alone or the car alone and sometimes if she's asleep it's just easier to give a few extra minutes before I move her.

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flerlgirl

Lilygrace48 said:

I put this one on the parenting board, but I'll stick it here, too.

If I wasn't worried that I would get arrested, I'd be fine leaving my kids in the car to run a five minute errand provided it wasn't freezing or stiflingly hot outside.

Duuuude. No.

SarahS11

shiggybop said:

The only place I leave my kids in the car is my garage. For example, both boys fell asleep in the car on the way home from the library and we had an hour before needing to go out again. I left the garage on with the car running and locked it with my other set of keys while I switched out what I needed to and grabbed a snack and my tablet. We sat in the car while I watched my show. I would never leave them anywhere else.

@BrightEyes112 I agree! If I am reading what @shiggybop said correctly, it is very dangerous!  I had a roommate in college have her car running in the garage with the garage door open, and still our carbon monoxide detector in the house went off and the reading was really high.  We had to open all of the windows while it was snowing outside and leave the house for a couple of hours before the reading went down. 

tbmadeamistake

@mmandm603‌ that's awful!

karing2

mmandm603 said:

I think leaving kids in cars is waaaaay too common. My MIL who works at a salon/spa just had an incident where someone came in frantic because there was a 2-4 month old in a car sleeping in their seat just a few weeks ago. The mother was inside getting a massage. Horrible

Now that is unacceptable but I have left my toddler and infant in a car while I ran in to drop off the dry cleaning, redbox, the butcher shop to pick up an already paid for package. I have only been gone max 2-3 minutes. And thing that is going to take a transaction i wouldnt. i literally park in front of the door. But I live in a very small town.

Dharmatron

@shiggybop - Please don't sit in the garage with car running even with the door open. It is not safe.

Is it safe to briefly warm up a car in an open garage? No. In an Iowa State study, warming up a vehicle for only two minutes with the overhead door open raised CO concentrations in the garage to 500 ppm.Ten hours after the car had been backed out of the garage, there was still a measurable concentration of CO in the garage. Persons working in the garage for a long period of time would breath a dangerous amount of carbon monoxide.

BMaidPlanner

snuff9861 said:

I think if you are over 11/12 and not going out with younger kids you shouldn't be trick or treating. Last year we had a bunch of older teens show up and just stick out their bags and walk away.

I disagree. If they put forth to put an actual costume on then they get candy. I went trick or treating until I was 17.

I went trick or treating in college once. Campus was in a rich (and annoyingly spoiled) neighborhood. Some houses actually gave out ferrero rocher and found us humorous.

tbmadeamistake

kaysa2 said:

Lilygrace48 said:

I put this one on the parenting board, but I'll stick it here, too.

If I wasn't worried that I would get arrested, I'd be fine leaving my kids in the car to run a five minute errand provided it wasn't freezing or stiflingly hot outside.

Agree.  Statistically the real danger is driving, not leaving kids for several minutes during moderate temps in a locked car.

I wish I could find the article that I read it in, but a woman got arrested for leaving her four year old in a locked car, where she could see him, for five minutes. The author basically broke down the risks of anything bad happening in the parked car vs. the odds of getting hit while walking through the parking lot or having a gunman open fire in the store she went into. It resonated with me.

flerlgirl

Lilygrace48 said:

kaysa2 said:

Lilygrace48 said:

I put this one on the parenting board, but I'll stick it here, too.

If I wasn't worried that I would get arrested, I'd be fine leaving my kids in the car to run a five minute errand provided it wasn't freezing or stiflingly hot outside.

Agree.  Statistically the real danger is driving, not leaving kids for several minutes during moderate temps in a locked car.

I wish I could find the article that I read it in, but a woman got arrested for leaving her four year old in a locked car, where she could see him, for five minutes. The author basically broke down the risks of anything bad happening in the parked car vs. the odds of getting hit while walking through the parking lot or having a gunman open fire in the store she went into. It resonated with me.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What are the odds of getting pregnant on the pill? Like a one percent chance, right? It happened. What are the chances of having a baby at 26 weeks? It happened.

tbmadeamistake

Because I can't prevent everything. They are more likely to get seriously injured or die in our kitchen. I still let them go in there.

Anyway, at this point its illegal or close enough just about everywhere, so its not something I'll be doing any more than leaving them asleep in the car in my own driveway while I bring in groceries.

flerlgirl

Lilygrace48 said:

Because I can't prevent everything. They are more likely to get seriously injured or die in our kitchen. I still let them go in there.

Anyway, at this point its illegal or close enough just about everywhere, so its not something I'll be doing any more than leaving them asleep in the car in my own driveway while I bring in groceries.

But you CAN prevent this

b48kate

flerlgirl said:

Lilygrace48 said:

Because I can't prevent everything. They are more likely to get seriously injured or die in our kitchen. I still let them go in there.

Anyway, at this point its illegal or close enough just about everywhere, so its not something I'll be doing any more than leaving them asleep in the car in my own driveway while I bring in groceries.

But you CAN prevent this

And you COULD prevent your children dying in a car crash by never putting then in a car. Auto accidents are very common and 100% avoidable,

b48kate

Incidentally, what is the hypothetical calamity that is going to happen in the theoretical temperature controlled locked car during a five minute stretch? Is it a stranger danger thing? I am asking genuinely...

tbmadeamistake

@kaysa2‌ thank you for saying, much more eloquently, what I was trying to.

tbmadeamistake

Internationalkate said:

Infiventally the hypothetical calamity that is going to happen in the theoretical temperature controlled locked car during a five minute stretch? Is it a stranger danger thing? I am asking genuinely...

According to the ladies on the The parenting board, my errand could take more than five minutes, a car could hit my car, they could strangle themselves in the seat belt, they could crawl up and take off the parking break, they could die. Obviously some of those are for kids not babies.

tbmadeamistake

What of my child falls asleep so instead of going into the store, I let him keep sleeping and stay in the car and we both get hit?

flerlgirl

Internationalkate said:

flerlgirl said:

Lilygrace48 said:

Because I can't prevent everything. They are more likely to get seriously injured or die in our kitchen. I still let them go in there.

Anyway, at this point its illegal or close enough just about everywhere, so its not something I'll be doing any more than leaving them asleep in the car in my own driveway while I bring in groceries.

But you CAN prevent this

And you COULD prevent your children dying in a car crash by never putting then in a car. Auto accidents are very common and 100% avoidable,

Right. But my kids have to go in the car. To go to the doctor, to go to school, and lots of places. I don't have to leave them when I run in to pick up my dry cleaning.

JmeJoLee83

@Lilygrace48‌ dang lady you picked a good UO today, lol! I don't even know where to begin with this :-??

diagonalley

kaysa2 said:

merie412 said:

Lilygrace48 said:

Because I can't prevent everything. They are more likely to get seriously injured or die in our kitchen. I still let them go in there.

Anyway, at this point its illegal or close enough just about everywhere, so its not something I'll be doing any more than leaving them asleep in the car in my own driveway while I bring in groceries.

You can't, but why not try to prevent the things you can? I just don't understand this concept. Yes, day to day life is full of surprises and accidents, but why willingly put them in a situation that is completely avoidable? That's like letting them play at the top of the stairs instead of down in the living room because, "Oh, they MIGHT fall down the stairs but they MIGHT not, so why try to prevent it?" 

This is just stupid. 

But this reasoning doesn't hold, either.  Kids get injured when they play sports.  I could prevent that from happening by not letting them play sports.  But I have decided that the benefits in this instance outweigh the risks and will let my kids play sports.

Same deal with things like playgrounds.  My kid could fall off the merry-go-round and crack their head and need stitches (I did when I was a kid).  I could prevent it by not allowing my kid to play on that piece of equipment.  But again, I have weighed the pros and cons and decided that the benefits outweigh the risks.  

For some, the benefit of leaving a child in a car so they can return a video or pay for gas outweigh the very, very slim possibility of a negative consequence.  And since we still allow people to smoke around children, drink around children, and do other much more risky behaviors, why should leaving a kid in a car under very specific circumstances be any different?  Why is ok to call the cops on a parent returning a video to one of those box things but not on a parent smoking in a car with a kid in the back?

In regards to the sports and playgrounds, those are supervised activities. If something were to happen, there would be someone there to help immediately. Not necessarily the case when leaving your kids unsupervised in a car. Sure there may be people nearby, or not.

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tbmadeamistake

Anytime @kaysa2‌ ! I honestly didn't expect it to turn into a giant debate, but I also find it interesting. Also, here is the map I found of where it is and is not legal to leave a child in a car unsupervised, in case anyone is curious.

Eta, it says my file type isn't allowed, I'll try again from home.

tbmadeamistake

.

b48kate

I have to say that it does boil down to parenting style. I also had an adventurous childhood roaming parks, barrancas and riverbeds. Wouldn't trade it for the world. I am making a very conscious decision to not helicopter my kid. Gross negligence, no; plenty of room to grow, yes.

b48kate

merie412 said:

I still fail to see how not leaving kids in the car = helicopter parenting.

Just speaking generally...but I'd be happy to start some lively discussion on the topic of helicopter parenting if we are bored and want to go down that path...

b48kate

BrightEyes112 said:

Internationalkate said:

merie412 said:

I still fail to see how not leaving kids in the car = helicopter parenting.

Just speaking generally...

Uhhhh yeah, following the rules of the law =/= helicopter parenting.

I refer you to above map...laws where? There does seem to be some relativity when it comes to this topic.

b48kate

amtellez28 said:

And I'm over here taking the baby out of the car with me to put the redbox DVD back in the machine, even though I parked close enough to it to have one had on the machine and one leg on the car...
Way too hot in Florida, with way too many recent cases. Even if my conscience and nerves could take it (they can't), I'd be worried about a stranger calling the cops or busting my window. They have really cracked down on this around here.

Totally get this because Florida is exactly where the thing that is 99.9% unlikely to happen, actually happens.

Everytime we see a really weird story in the news my husband and I always ask "Did it happen in Florida?"

JNerd

Ummm... Unless my house is across from the park (and even then I don't know) I will not be letting a 5yr old child go alone.
No. 5 is still very, very young and they at the VERY least need a tween with them for general safety.
I will go with a book or my phone, or if I can't, they can play in the yard.

b48kate

merie412 said:

Internationalkate said:

BrightEyes112 said:

Internationalkate said:

merie412 said:

I still fail to see how not leaving kids in the car = helicopter parenting.

Just speaking generally...

Uhhhh yeah, following the rules of the law =/= helicopter parenting.

I refer you to above map...laws where? There does seem to be some relativity when it comes to this topic.

I see the map. I see where 17 states have laws in place. I see 13 states working to aquire laws for this topic. That's 30 states, over half the country, who see this as negligent and irresponsible.

It is not helicopter parenting. I'm not up my kids ass, going down the slide with him. My parents encouraged and promoted independence within myself as well as my 4 siblings, and I will do the same with my child. Creek beds were explored, forts in the woods were built and we played hopscotch in the cul-de-sac behind our home. My youngest brother, who is 9, goes out in the summer when he finishes breakfast, and doesn't return until it's time for dinner-I hope to allow similar freedoms with my son.
You know what never did, nor ever will happen? Not a single one of us left in a car. Never, for even a minute.

Leaving your kids in the car has absolutely no bearing on whether or not you encourage exploration and a sense of independence with your kids. Just the same, taking them out of the car does not mean you coddle or teach them to be too dependent upon you as a parent. To insinuate that not leaving your kids unattended, in a parking lot, is helicopter parenting and outside the realm of normal parental attention and responsibility is to insult common sense. I don't care that they *could* get hurt on the swings, I don't care that they *could* get hurt playing soccer with their friends-I am not a helicopter parent, therefore I will willingly step back and allow them to be children in the aspect of play and exploration. But I will not willfully and negligently put my child in harms way for the sake of my convenience.

As a parent it is our responsibility to take care of our children to the best of our ability and to keep them safe to the best of our capabilities. Sure, it means grabbing a loaf of bread might take 20 minutes instead of 2, but that's how it works. Being a parent is not convenient, not by any stretch of the imagination. But that's a fact that should be acknowledged and accepted before getting into it.



With that, I'm done with this conversation. It's going in circles and will never end. I'm through wasting my emotion and energy on it.

Whoa! Totally agree...when a hypothetical situation gets emotional, it is time to stop. Totally didn't mean to get you riled up.

augustusgoose

There have been times when I wanted to go somewhere or inside say a grocery store or gas station to pick something up but don't want to lug the kids around. There are many a times that I have gone without rather then leave my kids in the car alone. Logic and odds are that I should be able to and they will be fine, but I still can't do it. However I don't judge those who do. No point in getting worked up over every little possible possibility in life. Especially one with realistically low probability of a negative outcome. The idiots that let their kids go on quests around the world by themselves (ex flying or sailing) are the ones that make mad.

b48kate

BrightEyes112 said:

Internationalkate said:

merie412 said:

Internationalkate said:

BrightEyes112 said:

Internationalkate said:

merie412 said:

I still fail to see how not leaving kids in the car = helicopter parenting.

Just speaking generally...

Uhhhh yeah, following the rules of the law =/= helicopter parenting.

I refer you to above map...laws where? There does seem to be some relativity when it comes to this topic.

I see the map. I see where 17 states have laws in place. I see 13 states working to aquire laws for this topic. That's 30 states, over half the country, who see this as negligent and irresponsible.

It is not helicopter parenting. I'm not up my kids ass, going down the slide with him. My parents encouraged and promoted independence within myself as well as my 4 siblings, and I will do the same with my child. Creek beds were explored, forts in the woods were built and we played hopscotch in the cul-de-sac behind our home. My youngest brother, who is 9, goes out in the summer when he finishes breakfast, and doesn't return until it's time for dinner-I hope to allow similar freedoms with my son.
You know what never did, nor ever will happen? Not a single one of us left in a car. Never, for even a minute.

Leaving your kids in the car has absolutely no bearing on whether or not you encourage exploration and a sense of independence with your kids. Just the same, taking them out of the car does not mean you coddle or teach them to be too dependent upon you as a parent. To insinuate that not leaving your kids unattended, in a parking lot, is helicopter parenting and outside the realm of normal parental attention and responsibility is to insult common sense. I don't care that they *could* get hurt on the swings, I don't care that they *could* get hurt playing soccer with their friends-I am not a helicopter parent, therefore I will willingly step back and allow them to be children in the aspect of play and exploration. But I will not willfully and negligently put my child in harms way for the sake of my convenience.

As a parent it is our responsibility to take care of our children to the best of our ability and to keep them safe to the best of our capabilities. Sure, it means grabbing a loaf of bread might take 20 minutes instead of 2, but that's how it works. Being a parent is not convenient, not by any stretch of the imagination. But that's a fact that should be acknowledged and accepted before getting into it.



With that, I'm done with this conversation. It's going in circles and will never end. I'm through wasting my emotion and energy on it.

Whoa! Totally agree...when a hypothetical situation gets emotional, it is time to stop. Totally didn't mean to get you riled up.

That intelligent, eloquent response was not an example of someone being riled up, imo.

I looked it up (riled) just to make sure...but I am pretty sure Merie was both "annoyed, irritated" even if she was thoughtful.

^^ says the girl who is now a little riled up

JNerd

Definitions aside, I think kids can do a lot, given the opportunity. However, boundaries should be set for safety. Letting a 5yr old go to the park alone is not safe.
Leaving a child in a car unattended is not safe.
Period.

chickpea912

I have been trying to figure out how to add to this conversation, and then @Merie412 basically stole my brain and said what I was attempting to craft into coherent thoughts.

Never in a million years would I consider myself a helicopter parent. In fact, I frequently fear I should be a bit more attentive. I consider my parenting style to be laid back, low key, and rather instinctual. If I'm parked in front of the Redbox, I don't take the kids out to return a video. If I have to walk into the grocery store to return to a Resbox inside, by the window, in full view of my car? I take them in. Running into 7-Eleven because I need caffeine in the guise of a Diet Coke? I pull out the bucket and carry sivan with me. If I have to corral Michal at the same time, so be it. And when I get home and both are asleep in the car? I take the baby in, leave her in the hallway inside the house, and then go out to somehow carry my 45-pound monster/kid upstairs to her room.

You can't control what happens to you or your kid all of the time (or, really, ever). But why not just take the extra effort to just be sure. I don't even find it to be that much of an imposition to get the kids out to run quick errands. Do I volunteer to enter into the seventh level of hell that is Costco on a Saturday afternoon with them? Not if I can help it, but to run in to grab a gallon of milk? What's the big fucking deal. Take the kid(s).