ignore

mrskittens

I should never have posted anything. This website is clearly not about support, it's a place for women to bash each other. 

MrsSept13

Perhaps that exam is something they are learning about at this time in their studies. If it's something you don't want to happen, just keep saying no. They have a right to ask and you have a right to say no. What confuses me is that if you were traumatized at 12 by a crotch exam, why the OB exams don't bother you but a student observing does?

redhead610

Lurker chiming in:

After delivering, I was asked if 2 nursing students could check me out. At that point, I really didn't care since I had been overly exposed anyway. In my opinion, those students checked me out more thoroughly than any of the other nurses. They asked me a lot of questions and listened to the answers. They had a checklist and went through everything. They were supervised the whole time, so the nurse teacher also check everything and helped them. It was a positive experience for me, and they got experience.

mrskittens

MrsSept13 said:

Perhaps that exam is something they are learning about at this time in their studies. If it's something you don't want to happen, just keep saying no. They have a right to ask and you have a right to say no. What confuses me is that if you were traumatized at 12 by a crotch exam, why the OB exams don't bother you but a student observing does?

I AM bothered by OB exams as well. But it's not as bad when I'm mentally prepared for the doctor I know I'm going there to see.

mrskittens

emotionlotion said:

Wow, you are certainly quite a pearl clutcher that you were offended by even being asked! I understand you have something in your past that was upsetting, I'm sorry for that. But you were asked a simple question, and told them no. You shouldn't have your while day ruined because of that. They are not asking to bring a student in to the Doppler or simple appointments because the student has already learned that. How do you think your own doctor learned to do exams? You have every right to decline any student in the room. But they have every right to ask and it is ridiculous if you think they chose to ask at your vaginal exams because a '15 year old nursing student' wanted to gawk at your privates. That student was not 15, needs to learn, and I assure you they do not leave the room giggling or drooling over your genitals. If you think they are, then you should never see any medical professional because they all learn by people volunteering to let their exams be watched. TL;DR: You are overreacting. No one forced anything on you. Calm down.

1. Pearl clutcher? awesome. thanks. You're sweet.

2. I said the student 'looked 15' not that I actually thought he WAS 15. I'm not stupid. It was a male student as well, so to me, that creates a more uncomfortable situation than a female. Nor did I say he would be 'gawking' - just that he probably doesn't have a lot of experience seeing women naked. Stop putting words in my mouth.

3. I thought this site was supposed to offer support, not insults. Guess I'll not bother posting anymore.

MrsSept13

mrskittens said:

emotionlotion said:

Wow, you are certainly quite a pearl clutcher that you were offended by even being asked! I understand you have something in your past that was upsetting, I'm sorry for that. But you were asked a simple question, and told them no. You shouldn't have your while day ruined because of that. They are not asking to bring a student in to the Doppler or simple appointments because the student has already learned that. How do you think your own doctor learned to do exams? You have every right to decline any student in the room. But they have every right to ask and it is ridiculous if you think they chose to ask at your vaginal exams because a '15 year old nursing student' wanted to gawk at your privates. That student was not 15, needs to learn, and I assure you they do not leave the room giggling or drooling over your genitals. If you think they are, then you should never see any medical professional because they all learn by people volunteering to let their exams be watched. TL;DR: You are overreacting. No one forced anything on you. Calm down.

1. Pearl clutcher? awesome. thanks. You're sweet.

2. I said the student 'looked 15' not that I actually thought he WAS 15. I'm not stupid. It was a male student as well, so to me, that creates a more uncomfortable situation than a female. Nor did I say he would be 'gawking' - just that he probably doesn't have a lot of experience seeing women naked. Stop putting words in my mouth.

3. I thought this site was supposed to offer support, not insults. Guess I'll not bother posting anymore.

There is a lot of support and I'm sorry you had something unsettling happen to you when you were younger but the doctor did nothing wrong by asking you. If we all reacted like you did then there would cease to be any more doctors. So like I and PPs said, if it bothers you, just keep saying no and let it be.

Fafalady

I understand how you feel. During labor I had a nursing student come into the room, not introduce herself, not say anything, and positioned herself for a perfect view of everything down there. I nicely asked her to leave after a few minutes. I didn't want any little thing stressing me out as labor progressed.

allrightmeow

mrskittens said:

emotionlotion said:

Wow, you are certainly quite a pearl clutcher that you were offended by even being asked! I understand you have something in your past that was upsetting, I'm sorry for that. But you were asked a simple question, and told them no. You shouldn't have your while day ruined because of that. They are not asking to bring a student in to the Doppler or simple appointments because the student has already learned that. How do you think your own doctor learned to do exams? You have every right to decline any student in the room. But they have every right to ask and it is ridiculous if you think they chose to ask at your vaginal exams because a '15 year old nursing student' wanted to gawk at your privates. That student was not 15, needs to learn, and I assure you they do not leave the room giggling or drooling over your genitals. If you think they are, then you should never see any medical professional because they all learn by people volunteering to let their exams be watched. TL;DR: You are overreacting. No one forced anything on you. Calm down.

1. Pearl clutcher? awesome. thanks. You're sweet.

2. I said the student 'looked 15' not that I actually thought he WAS 15. I'm not stupid. It was a male student as well, so to me, that creates a more uncomfortable situation than a female. Nor did I say he would be 'gawking' - just that he probably doesn't have a lot of experience seeing women naked. Stop putting words in my mouth.

3. I thought this site was supposed to offer support, not insults. Guess I'll not bother posting anymore.

That's a big ol assumption.   

serenbach

I get that you feel uncomfortable about it, but I'm sure they asked every patient that day it's not a personal thing towards you and wanting to see your private parts. It's your right to say no which you did, which is fine so why let it get to you so much and upset your whole day?

The only advice I can give you which is what a patient was told while I was one of those horrid young perverted/virgin nursing students -

''it's your right to say no to .... Doing it/ observing but just remember in a couple of months ..... Will be qualified and will be doing all this on her own without anyone watching over her shoulder and if you return to this ward she will probably be the one to carry out this process so would you not prefer her to have as much experience behind her as possible before she's on her own?''

Low and behold the patient allowed me to do it, and as a qualified nurse I'm personally grateful to all the patients who allowed me to observe and do procedures so that I could become competent (and get my paperwork signed off!)

Weezy56

I've never been asked, but I would have no problem with it. These could be the people that are delivering my next LO, or delivering my grandchild in 30 years. How else are they supposed to learn?

However, you have every right to say no because as the patient you need to be 100% comfortable. I do think it's very silly though to comment on how many vaginas the male student has possibly seen (or not seen) in his personal life. That's completely irrelevant.

ashiscute

Have you looked through your paperwork from the beginning of your pregnancy?  We were given forms stating that our practice would have med students coming in from time to time to watch or participate in exams.  You were allowed to decline it.  And then you were asked any time a student was actually there.  

I had students in my exams with both pregnancies and it certainly didn't bother me.  I think you need to calm down and realize that this pretty normal.  You have every right to decline but to act like it's offensive for them to even ask is a bit much.  

mb314

I won't repeat what pp's have said (most of which I agree with).  I will just add that I encourage you to do a birth plan and to include in that birth plan that you don't want students observing your labor or birth in the hospital.  I would specifically state that you only want necessary medical personnel in the room during your labor and birth.  Depending upon your OB's office and the hospital, the information that you don't want to be asked if students can observe you may not get relayed to the hospital.  You don't want anything that will needlessly upset you happen during your labor at the hospital.  I would bring a copy of the birth plan with you when you go to L & D, and make sure your support people (DH, doula, mom, friends, whoever) know that they should tell the nurses/OB that you don't want students. 

Beevol

In terms of the delivery in a hospital, unless something is going wrong, there are usually two nurses and one OB present - one nurse for you and one nurse for the baby. If something unusual or distressing is going on, they may call in the calvary and then all bets are off (but, you will be grateful to have those folks there and they wont have any time for gawking - just saving your/your baby's life). 

If you are worried about it and it's messing with your head, make it clear to your OB that you do not like to be asked, then when you register at the hospital make it clear to them as well, and when you meet your L&D nurses, let them know too. Talk with your labor support team (husband/friend/mom/doula - whoever you are planning to have there with you) and ask them to be in charge of making sure that only your professional medical team is present during labor and delivery. Getting it out there ahead of time is the best defense, especially if you know that just being asked will freak you out. 

It might also help for you to watch some videos of women giving birth in hospitals so that you can get an idea of what the medical staff do while you're laboring/delivering. 

Cryssteen

Ok.. I am a nurse.  And the L&D/OBGYN portion of my schooling was some of the most integral in my education.  It was the only time I actually saw a surgery. Nurses need to train.  As do residents and fellows.  It's how they'll know what to do next year when they're expected to actually treat you.  So, being offended by the PRACTICE of student-teacher clinical situations is insane.  However, you have every right to determine who is in the exam room with you. When they ask you, politely decline.  There's no reason to be offended and put-off by the question.  And for the record, institutions which foster student learners tend to be some of the best in the country because they are focused on the next generation of medical professionals are up-to-date on new techniques and practices.  You should feel more comfortable knowing that this is the type of office you are being seen at.  Oh, and that guy who looked 15 could have been as young as 18, since you can start nursing school right out of high school.. He'll probably be a young-looking 20 year old nurse soon... good lord! what will we do.

Also, hi.  I'm visiting from D15 as I've just entered tri 3.

candlequeen

There were 3 students that watched me get my epidural with my son. They all saw my butt crack and side boob and I honestly didn't give a shit. My Dr later said thanks for being cool with that and letting them watch your epidural. I just shrugged. It's nbd to me

baloneydisc

I had a student watch when I got my first IUD put in (before DD). At the time I felt sort of bad for her because I had a rare reaction and ended up in intense pain. I realize now that it was especially good for her to be in there during my procedure and ultrasound (they checked for placement because of how bad my cramping was) because if less than 1% of women have the same issues as me she may not ever see it again or know what to do.

manders9479

This just happened to me yesterday, however it was just a measuring my belly and heartbeat check sort of visit so I had no problem allowing the student to watch.  I get being more uncomfortable with the vaginal check, particularly with a male student, but I think all you can do is what you did and ask them not to ask you if you are that uncomfortable.

beachbumsc

I have 2 male students in my nursing class and neither of them were excited about OB clinical.  Of course it is fine to decline if you don't feel comfortable, but just realize he more than likely isn't comfortable watching either and it is a good learning experience.

sheluvs2travel

My practice regularly has med students that rotate through.  They don't even bother asking if they can observe.  Most of the time, the regular docs seem really annoyed by them.  Ha!

I like the idea that another poster mentioned of including no med students/nursing students in your birth plan.  It's in mine. I had two very bad experiences already in OB triage with students hurting me during this pregnancy, so DH and I decided we were all done with that nonsense.  When I mentioned it to the RN the last time I was in there, she said, "I don't blame you, I wouldn't want them touching me either!"  It's your body and your birth.  Do what makes YOU comfortable.

 

kayluhmichelle

Just be lucky that you don't go to the OB that I go to. I have had about three separate instances where nursing students have just came in once I was already beginning to have an exam done and my OB would just brush it off and be like, "They're here to observe." I was not even asked before-hand. It doesn't necessarily bother me too much, but it is a bit uncomfortable to just have people walk into the exam room and I have no idea why they are there at first. Plus, the exam rooms at my OB are arranged in a way that you can see what is going on no matter where you stand. My husband has made so many jokes about that.

I believe you have to right to say "no" just like you have been doing, but don't blow up over something that is honestly just part of the procedure for the nursing students and doctors.

YogaSandy

O13 lurker.

You have every right to decline. However, that is how your nurse/doctor learned.

I had med students, resident, and OB resident at my second last appoint. The med student came in for the appoint. The Dr "suggested" we do a bedside ultra sound at the hospital (across the street) to check that the baby was head down. I honestly think it was really for the students. The resident came with me. The OB resident performed it and then the doctor showed the med student how to feel for baby and look for things on the US. They were very thorough, very sweet, and very thankful. To me it was nbd because they have to learn. That's how my doctor learned. I am also a teacher, so I learned by being in someone's class.

I wouldn't have minded if any of them were there for the delivery - and I was specific in my birth plan - no spectators which did not mean med students. However, I went to the hospital at 1:00 am and DS was born at 6:00 am - the students weren't on nights.

My doctor did kick a nurse (not student I don't think) out because she wasn't doing exactly what he wanted (getting the linocane). But I was on meds, so I'm.not really sure. I have no doubt he would have got the students to leave if they were in the way etc.

Tl;Dr - that's how they learn. That's how your doctor learned. They are usually very thorough and ask tonnes of questions and are very appreciative.

ghostof5letters

ADC1979

I used to be concerned about things like this.  Then I had a baby and now I freely talk about things like accidentally squirting my little guy in the face with breastmilk from an overactive boob.  My, how times change.

You may surprise yourself with how you change from the experience of birth.  I used to be big on staying covered up.  In the week after LO came, wearing clothes seemed like a ludicrous idea, especially tops.  I don't care if people see boob or sideboob while baby eats.  He's eating, who cares?  

Lots of people saw all of my parts because I ended up having an emergency c-section that involved way more than the usual crowd at a birth.  But they're medical professionals, so it's cool.  It's their job.  Teachers teach, McDonald's drive thru workers handle food, and OB-GYN students have to look at vaginas.

PrimRoseMama

I think you over reacted in your description of the male nurse. Few nurses I know (male or female) gawk at what is just another bit of anatomy to them.

You are assuming a whole awful lot about the male nurse: He could be gay. Or he could be a straight male nurse just doing his job. You know, you could have lesbian nurses right? It's not only males that could find any exam appealing. None that I know actually do. They might be curious or learning. Just because he took an interest in your exam doesn't mean it was sexual.

To answer your question: no, it doesn't bother me. I had 10-15 med students & nurses when I got to push with DS. That is because he was almost born en-caul (in his amniotic sac). They asked me & at that point I DGAF who saw my vagina as long as he got the ever-loving-fuck out.

I don't think it matters & students have to learn somehow. :-??

Lindzoid

After you have this baby you won't care who looks at your parts. Nothing is sacred after childbirth. GL

allrightmeow

This is OPs second post.  On her first she never went back and read one single reply.  What the hell is the point of posting if you're going to do that?! Don't these people have home training?!! 

laurajayne11

I'm a nursing student (mental health, though) and I've never been offended if people didn't want me in the room, as I understand people's reservations. However, i'd never learn anything if everyone was like this! I'm a student in the UK so the structure of the course may be different- but I have to experience set things to have 'competencies' signed off. It may well be that if a specific procedure is being carried out then the student will take the opportunity to be present to achieve this. So, if you're having an internal examination, they may need to experience this as opposed to a routine appointment.

serenbach

@laurajayne11‌ random but I've recently graduated as a mental health nurse (I'm from Wales) ditto what you said, I mean how else would we learn the pleasures of depot injections without real butts to practice on!

laurajayne11

Really @megrobsonx‌! And to be fair, I'd be reluctant to let a student give me a depot hahah ;-)

Manateearmz

I'm pretty sure that watching a pregnant woman get a pelvic in a clinical setting is the furthest thing from sexual to anyone let alone a person who has chose that for their profession. If they wanted vaginas to be a turn on at work they'd be in porn.

Your doctor has the right to ask, you have the right to refuse. End of story.

beaniousmaximus

I've never been asked for a student to come "watch" anything. But I recently changed my OB because during my appointments I was meeting with ONLY  a student every time and my OB would come in at the end to double check everything. I also understand that students need to learn, but like you said, I'm not a damn experiment. Especially when the students don't know what they're doing. The final straw was when the student didn't know the difference between my heartbeat and the baby's heartbeat. Lol I would talk to your OB about it. I don't think you're over reacting at all. This is your pregnancy, you should be as comfortable as possible the entire time. 

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lizzyb14

Wow. Can't believe how rude some people are to her original post. We're all vulnerable during pregnancy, so no shame in asking for what makes you comfortable. Obviously, as seen on this board, there are others who are ok with observers, so you just take care of yourself during this pregnancy and your little one. The students will learn just fine elsewhere. And I'm sorry to hear that you had a bad experience in the past - no one has the right to tell you that you shouldn't feel what you feel.

serenbach

lizzyb14 said:

Wow. Can't believe how rude some people are to her original post. We're all vulnerable during pregnancy, so no shame in asking for what makes you comfortable. Obviously, as seen on this board, there are others who are ok with observers, so you just take care of yourself during this pregnancy and your little one. The students will learn just fine elsewhere. And I'm sorry to hear that you had a bad experience in the past - no one has the right to tell you that you shouldn't feel what you feel.

I don't think anyone was rude, I think in fact OP was the most rude in making assumptions about the male student in the room wanting to ogle at her magical vagina.

And yes the students will learn 'just fine elsewhere' just like your OB had to in the past to make him the trusted practitioner that you go to today, good job he didn't have a bunch of jumped up women telling him he wasn't allowed anywhere near them and question his virginity while he was trying to learn!

I get that not everyone's comfortable but to react in a way where she let it affect her whole day then came home to rant to a bunch of strangers online about simply being asked (like every woman probably had been that day) was just over the top.

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RosePetals2014

lizzyb14 said:

Wow. Can't believe how rude some people are to her original post. We're all vulnerable during pregnancy, so no shame in asking for what makes you comfortable. Obviously, as seen on this board, there are others who are ok with observers, so you just take care of yourself during this pregnancy and your little one. The students will learn just fine elsewhere. And I'm sorry to hear that you had a bad experience in the past - no one has the right to tell you that you shouldn't feel what you feel.

If everyone said no, the students would never learn, don't assume enough people say yes.

However, I asked my GP to refer me to a teaching hospital for a few reasons, first because we NEED trained medical professionals, and second because a teaching hospital has the most up to date practises and equipment (as stated by a PP), I value the standard of care we have, and I value the progressions being made right at this very minute, none of which would be possible if students were not allowed to learn, it may be worth remembering that while you're pearl clutching, birth would have many more risks than today otherwise!

Trek3

I have a student midwife at every appointment. I said anything is fine except for stitches! Just because I want someone with experience stitching up my vag. If it was just one or two I wouldn't mind, but I have had 2nd and 3rd degree tears and that is a lot of stitching.

kikimeemee

I think you'll just need to respectfully say no time and time again. With changing staff and people who don't glance at files before they walk into the exam room, I don't think you'll get 100% compliance on never being asked again.

I understand the irritation but watching and doing is how people learn. Again-- kindly day no if you do feel and try not to stress that you're asked. No harm!

minirella

If you don't feel comfortable, decline.

I've been there as a nursing student and you get bummed when people say no. Most of us just want to see the procedure so that we can learn. We are spending our day at a hospital or office in hopes that we get to see some cool shit (of course, most of us don't want to be there but it's required if we want to get through the program for our license). Most of us aren't oogling over body parts. I live in a city with a large university medical program and just about every doctor in town has the students shadowing in their office.

cakergirl

Rest assured that the student you describe was likely not 15. Nursing students are generally at least 18 and medical students are generally at least 22 on average. Heck, most medical schools don't even let the "Doogie Howser" child prodigies start med school until at least age 18-20, and even then the the first 2 years are spent studying books, practicing on patient models and human actors, dissecting cadavers (nude, some female), shadowing experienced physicians, and learning about anatomy and physiology in such a way it makes it very non-sexual. Nursing students I would guess have a similar experience, except that the focus/purpose/duration of their training is very different. So rest assured, you are not likely the first or last naked patient (female or otherwise) this student has seen or touched, whether a medical or nursing student. I agree, you had every right to say no to any extra observers during your exam. It is a personal decision only you can make, and I think you were right to have the information documented in your chart for future visits. However if you were so traumatized by an exam when you were younger, by all means let your provider know so that he/she can be aware of this and take any appropriate measures to make you more comfortable in the future. That being said, we are all fortunate that many women many generations before us agreed to help students learn the art, science and practice of healthcare.

Maebb

I came here for the "ignore." That basically reads to me as "open me now," just like a thread title of "."