Christmas

freeatlast2014

How do you split this up? Assuming you rotate and the other parent actually takes their time.

I want them every Christmas Eve (that's what my family has always celebrated) and the selfish part of me wants every Christmas morning but I realize that that's not fair and I need to be flexible with the Eve thing. Ugh.

I don't want to share.

Thanks

thiscoffeechick

How far do you live from the other parent? Usually Xmas Day and the afternoon/evening of the 25th is what people celebrate so your ex would probably be willing to agree to you: noon Xmas eve thru 10 am Xmas day. Your ex: 10 am Xmas day thru noon on the 26th.

freeatlast2014

I tried this. However he said that he won't agree to never having them Christmas morning. His lawyer proposed rotating 5pm Eve and 10am morning but I don't know what that means. And of course after a week of trying to reach my lawyer I still have not heard back.

Right now we live in the same town but when the house sells I could be up to an hour away at the most. I'm trying to stay closer to him but not sure if I can afford to do that.

Mkherren12

My ex isn't around much anymore but when he was I got Christmas Eve through 9am Christmas morning and he picked up dd then. Brought her back around dinner time Christmas night.

cole2144

 We do 12 pm Christmas Eve to 12 pm Christmas day.

new+tothis

We alternate the entire holiday break. BD gets the first half of winter break one year and I get the second half. The next year it is flipped. This gives us each about a week with one of us getting Christmas eve and day. We do it this way so BD can take DS to see his family out of state. I won't lie - it is so hard not to have him for Christmas at all every other year. That said, this is the only thing that would work for us. DS needs to spend time with BDs family and this is how that can happen. We tried switching early Christmas morning but both felt rushed, DS didn't get to see BDs family, and it was hard all around.

Ilumine

Honestly, I would alternate the entire break.  

Look at it through your children's eyes.  They never get to full experience the WHOLE shebang because midway through the holiday they have to leave one parent to go with the other parent.  

They don't get to enjoy their presents because they will be leaving them practically immediately. They feel bad by being excited about what they did with Mom when at Dad's or vice versus.  They cannot show how sad they are leaving mom or missing out on Mom's side when they go to dad's.  They cannot show how excited they are about going to Dad's while in sight of mom for fear she is going to be hurt. 

And then you add any additional traveling to visit the extended families.  Sure that can be fun.  But it can also be tiring and overwhelming and not fun.  

It would break my heart if I could not spend Christmas with my daughter.  But it would break my heart even more if she would have to leave me ON Christmas Even or Christmas Morning.  And I would be devastated if she was kept from enjoying her Christmas (because the traditions of Christmas, not the meaning of Christmas are really more for kids anyway) because of my selfishness. 

freeatlast2014

I see your point @Ilumine‌ but I just don't see him going for that. Our kids are 2 and 3 right now and we don't plan to slit any other holidays or birthdays (hopefully) but since Christmas is a two day affair I'm hoping we can split this one (as he wants to also). But I don't want to hurt the kids. Not ever. I would go without for sure so they could have....that's what moms do. I wish we were able to do parenting mediation cause then I could see his viewpoints and he could see mine...but I have a final and permanent restraining order against him so I could not do that per the court.

Ilumine

Actually you CAN do mediation without having to see him.  This happens all of the time. 

The mediator will have you sit in different rooms and will work with both of you.  

Ilumine

And personally, I would get this done now.  

Just imagine the next 15 years:

1) You are never going to be able to go on a vacation over Christmas.  

2) If you marry again, you may never be able to participate in your Inlaws traditions because you wold have to be home to switch the kids. 

3) If you have more children, they are never going to have a full holiday with their siblings.  

And this DOES affect the other holidays in the future.  How are you going to address Thanksgiving Break and Spring Breaks?  In 2 years, your oldest is going to be in Kindergarten.  What happens if your ex or you decide you want to take a trip to see the fall leaves or go to Destin for Springbreak?  

Are you going to go back to court THEN?  

hopanka

I empathize with you...we will be doing this for the first time this Christmas as well. We will probably do it jointly, since we live one block away, but who knows how everything will turn out. For me, Christmas Eve is more important as well, as a European we open presents that night, so my proposal would be Christmas Eve until a reasonable time before bed time and then Christmas Day a.m. at the other parent's. I will probably stop by Christmas Day to hang out anyway, but we will see.

freeatlast2014

Ilumine said:

And personally, I would get this done now.  

Just imagine the next 15 years:

1) You are never going to be able to go on a vacation over Christmas.  

2) If you marry again, you may never be able to participate in your Inlaws traditions because you wold have to be home to switch the kids. 

3) If you have more children, they are never going to have a full holiday with their siblings.  

And this DOES affect the other holidays in the future.  How are you going to address Thanksgiving Break and Spring Breaks?  In 2 years, your oldest is going to be in Kindergarten.  What happens if your ex or you decide you want to take a trip to see the fall leaves or go to Destin for Springbreak?  

Are you going to go back to court THEN?  

Hm, these are very good points. Judge made it sound like this was completely off the table. We have an early settlement panel kn Wednesday - wonder if I can address there. So you say completely rotate the entire break as if they are ready in school?

I could print out 2 different town calendars and use those to try to work this out. The lawyers are super general in that we rotate holidays but with an abusive partner is has to he completely be spelled out with date place and time and never deviate from that. Or so I have been told. And I can see this already - there is nothing we can work out or discuss on our own. My lawyer bills are through the roof already. I would like to think of it all and hash it all now and be done with it. I'm tired of fighting.

ambrvan

SD is school aged, so we alternate the two weeks of Christmas break. Year A, we have her the first week of the break, BM has the second week. Year B, it switches.

We also alternate Christmas Eve, 2p to 2p. Year A, we have Christmas Eve 2p to Christmas day 2p, BM has Christmas day 2p to Dec 26th 2p. Year B, it switches.

This is not likely to ever actually happen as written for us because BM's visits must always be supervised by her parents. So it really is based upon their schedules/availability. So this past year we did not have to alternate the entire weeks, but we did allow them to have every weekend of the break.

Ilumine

freeatlast2014 said:

And personally, I would get this done now.  

Just imagine the next 15 years:

1) You are never going to be able to go on a vacation over Christmas.  

2) If you marry again, you may never be able to participate in your Inlaws traditions because you wold have to be home to switch the kids. 

3) If you have more children, they are never going to have a full holiday with their siblings.  

And this DOES affect the other holidays in the future.  How are you going to address Thanksgiving Break and Spring Breaks?  In 2 years, your oldest is going to be in Kindergarten.  What happens if your ex or you decide you want to take a trip to see the fall leaves or go to Destin for Springbreak?  

Are you going to go back to court THEN?  

Hm, these are very good points. Judge made it sound like this was completely off the table. We have an early settlement panel kn Wednesday - wonder if I can address there. So you say completely rotate the entire break as if they are ready in school? I could print out 2 different town calendars and use those to try to work this out. The lawyers are super general in that we rotate holidays but with an abusive partner is has to he completely be spelled out with date place and time and never deviate from that. Or so I have been told. And I can see this already - there is nothing we can work out or discuss on our own. My lawyer bills are through the roof already. I would like to think of it all and hash it all now and be done with it. I'm tired of fighting.

It does not have to have a specific date - as in December 23 at 4pm.  

It can say something along the lines of "Holiday visitation will follow the calendar of the school district the child resides in or goes to school in.  On odd years, the mother will have the full winter break and the father will have the full Thanksgiving and Spring Breaks.  On even years, the mother will have the full Thanksgiving and Spring Breaks and the Father will have the full winter break.  

Visitation begins at 9am on the first Sunday of the holiday unless the regular weekly custody is already in place.  I.e. if the father is to have custody that holiday but already has his normal visitation that weekend, his visitation will begin on Friday.

Visitation ends at 9 am on the last Sunday of the holiday.  This is to allow the child to get ready to go back to school."

It is very clear and concrete so your ex husband cannot claim a misunderstanding.  The holidays are based on odd and even years, so he knows whether he gets Christmas or Tday and SB. The specific dates are posted before then end of the previous school year, so he will know the specific date his visitation starts by September at the least.  Sundays and 9 am never change.  

Personally, I would sell this as him getting more time with his kids.  The odds of him actually TAKING the whole thing are slim to none.  Because he will then have to figure out child care...but that is on him.  

If he chooses to take less time, you just document it over a couple years and then renegotiate then.  

Look, this is what my DH's custody was like.  It hurt his heart on the years he did not have his kids.  But, he recognized the downfalls that I listed above.  It made life so much easier for everyone. 

Ginlyn0

This is how ours works although not our exact wording. This is the norm for my state:

• Christmas – The noncustodial parent will have the children in even-numbered years beginning at 6 p.m. on the day the child is dismissed from school for Christmas vacation and ending at noon on December 26.  The custodial parent will then have the child from noon on December 26 until school resumes. In odd-numbered years you would switch.
  
• Thanksgiving – The noncustodial parent will have the children in odd-numbered years beginning at 6 p.m. the day school is dismissed for Thanksgiving and ending at 6 p.m. the following Sunday. In even-numbered years you switch.
• Spring Break – The parents alternate each year. The non-custodial parent will get even-numbered years beginning at 6 p.m. the day school is released and ending at 6 p.m. the day before school resumes.

In both my DH's case and my case, these have been in effect before any of our kids started school. It's based off of the local school district calendar and that is specified in the order.

jess9802

The holiday split is hard. DH was the non-custodial parent for the first few years of our relationship, which meant we got SS over summer breaks and for Christmas (there was 800+ miles between DH and his ex, so those were the only times we got to see him). We now have custody, which means SS will spend Christmas with his mother. Due to unusual circumstances he did not go back last year, but he will this year. I'm sad that DS won't get to enjoy Christmases with his older brother - but then I keep in mind that the last Christmas SS spent with his mother was in 2007, and he's never celebrated with his sister. It's not all about us.

I do think you will find it much easier to trade years and exchange presents and have a holiday dinner with your kiddos another day. It will be a chance to create new traditions with your kids and making the most of a situation that's not exactly desirable. Good luck.

freeatlast2014

Thank you all so very much for the time you took to write out your responses. I really really appreciate it!

nattyncbride

Just another option to add to the list of options: I know a lot of people split up Christmas Eve/Christmas Day.  I agree with PPs who said that it's hard for a child to really enjoy the holiday when they are being shuffled around.  However, Christmas break can be very long.  So in our case: every year we switch who is Parent A and B.  Parent A gets LO when break starts- Dec 26 or 27th.  Parent B gets LO 26/27th- when break ends. Parent B also gets Thanksgiving.  That way, LO gets to stay put for a significant amount of time, but still gets to see both parents for over the extended holiday, and the parent that misses out on the actual Christmas days gets all of Thanksgiving, so you always get to celebrate a major family holiday with the kids.

I find that when I am Parent B, we make a big deal out of Thanksgiving, and we always celebrate Christmas the day I get LO back (26/27th), and everyone is happy.

Good luck-you were given a lot of options, I'm sure you'll find one that works for all of you.

Amee12

We alternate thanksgiving and Christmas with SS. It's not perfect but it works. My family will do christmas on a weekend with us so they can share in the holiday each year.

cropson

We also alternate year to year. One year we get Thanksgiving and the second half of winter break (New Years). The next year we get the first half of winter break, or Christmas. SS lives in TX and we are in NC so this is the only way we could do it.

freeatlast2014

He said no to rotating Christmas Eve and day. He wants to exchange at noon Christmas Day - and we will rotate each year who has them Eve and morning and then who has them noon Christmas Day on.

What child will want to open their presents and then get dressed and leave their presents?

What do I do? Do I give in (yet again) and the kids will just learn to deal? Do I try to mediate this because if I can remind him how HE doesn't even want to get dressed and go anywhere on Christmas Day, why does he think the kids will? This hurts my heart...advice?
Thanks!

rachelcalderon525

Since my daughters (really my step daughter) BM only sees her 2-3 times a year (she lives and NY and "can't make the drive"), We decided not to fight her on Christmas. She only wants her the first week of break for Christmas and then we bring her back home and have her New Years. Although, since we are prego now, it has occurred to me that it will get more complicated. My SD doesn't seem so keen on seeing her mom as she gets older, and I don't blame her.

But I know other families and they rotate the holidays yearly. So one year Mom will get the kids Christmas Eve, and the Father will get them Christmas Day. The Next year they swap. Its sux, but that's the price of divorce I guess.

cmz81013

I have them every Christmas Eve and Christmas. Their father is okay with just having them Boxing Day

ambrvan

freeatlast2014 said:

He said no to rotating Christmas Eve and day. He wants to exchange at noon Christmas Day - and we will rotate each year who has them Eve and morning and then who has them noon Christmas Day on.

What child will want to open their presents and then get dressed and leave their presents?

What do I do? Do I give in (yet again) and the kids will just learn to deal? Do I try to mediate this because if I can remind him how HE doesn't even want to get dressed and go anywhere on Christmas Day, why does he think the kids will? This hurts my heart...advice?
Thanks!

If this is how it ends up, when you have them Christmas eve, make that Christmas.

We had to wait and do Christmas with our children on the 26th or 27th (I really don't remember) this past year because my husband had to work Christmas, we were trying to work around BM's opportunity to have supervision for visitation, and other things. It worked out fine for the kids, but it was plenty of headache for us.

So in the situation your X is proposing, you could give them their gifts on Christmas eve. If you're trying to keep up the Santa thing, then they get up early enough to open Santa gifts and then get dressed to go to the other parent's house right before noon.

Honestly, traveling on Christmas is not going to scar them for life. Yes, it's inconvenient, but it's not going to ruin them. I'm not saying this to be rude or insensitive. I'm just saying to look at the big picture of what really matters.

On another note, I personally think that Illumine had the best suggestion. Set visitation up now however it will work when they are in school.

Ilumine

Honestly, you need to work this out NOW.  Because what is going to happen when they are in school?  Will he bring them back to you or will he fight you for part of the break?  Will he get a girlfriend and start going after Thanksgiving (how do you split that one?) What happens with spring break? What happens if he gets a girlfriend/wife who wants to travel to see her family for the holidays?  What if he moves? You know he is just going to open this can of worms up at a later date. 

yes, you stick to your guns and you demand that you alternate the holidays now.  That you are thinking about not just what is right for the children NOW, but what is right for the children in the future. 

Be the mama bear you know you can be. 

freeatlast2014

Ilumine said:

Honestly, you need to work this out NOW.  Because what is going to happen when they are in school?  Will he bring them back to you or will he fight you for part of the break?  Will he get a girlfriend and start going after Thanksgiving (how do you split that one?) What happens with spring break? What happens if he gets a girlfriend/wife who wants to travel to see her family for the holidays?  What if he moves? You know he is just going to open this can of worms up at a later date. 

yes, you stick to your guns and you demand that you alternate the holidays now.  That you are thinking about not just what is right for the children NOW, but what is right for the children in the future. 

Be the mama bear you know you can be. 

We worked out rotating schedules and what he suggested is one gets Eve and morning until noon. Other parent gets noon Christmas Day and then the first half of the break.

I'm not worried about not giving them gifts on Christmas morning. I'm concerned they will not want to leave Christmas Day all of their new things. I'm trying to see what will be best for the long haul. I hope that makes sense.

As for thanksgiving we split it so that one person gets the whole break, same with the other breaks and holidays. It's only Christmas itself that gets split in the middle of the holiday. Guess that's not too bad - right?

And I liked your suggestion and used the whole switch back on Sunday thing to help with school.

Just not sure if I should push the issue on this. He agreed with everything else I offered on the holiday.

Does this make sense?

amieeyoung

Amee12 said:

We alternate thanksgiving and Christmas with SS. It's not perfect but it works. My family will do christmas on a weekend with us so they can share in the holiday each year.

This- we alternate most holidays and child's birthday as well as school breaks based on odd/even years. For example:

Spring break, fall break - one yr. I have spring break even number yrs - thus I won't have fall break that year- ex will.

Winter/ Christmas break- one parent gets my son from start of school break until Christmas Eve @ 6 p.m. (so that he can wake up at the parent's house Christmas morning) the other gets from 6 p.m. Christmas Eve until end of Winter Break (6 p.m. the night before).

Summer- we do different b/c my job takes me away part of summer and I get most of the time the rest of the yr.- he gets 6 wks (during week, I get weekends) spread out through the summer. We are thinking of shortening that since he has a hard time finding child care and it is just long for my son.

Mom's bday and mother's day she always has son
Dad's bday  and father's day he always has son
Son's bday is even/odd yrs. like above arrangements

Other holidays are even/odd
except we made Halloween and New Yrs. negotiable each yr. - we get along though and usually iron it out pretty easy- otherwise it would be assigned even/odd.


Honestly though we've changed it once since the divorce and will probably change again soon as son is getting older,... then again when he's in high school. .. parenting plans can be changed fairly easy in my state- we don't even use lawyers- just update the parenting plan and pay court costs.

tynisd5

My DH has 2 children and we have them Xmas day at 8 and their BM has them Xmas eve. I am now 10 weeks pregnant. I do not like the schedule we have now because the kids come over super tired and spend the day sleeping. When we have our LO I want the most normal routine possible for the everyone but I don't want our little one waiting to open presents until the two kids wake up either, very frustrating.

Ilumine

I understand you do not want to rock this boat...but the very first time either of you want to take a vacation during the christmas or thanksgiving breaks or either of you get an SO who may not want to work his/her holidays around your kids (maybe because they have their own blended family situation going), what are you going to do? 

Or what happens if he is late coming to pick them up or drop them off.  You are now waiting on him in the middle of the holiday day...

Hell have you even addressed the whole School Breaks yet?  Come a few short years, you are going to have to deal with covering WEEKS not just two days.  Are you, OP going to be the only one that has to cover/parent during these vacations?  Thanksgiving may only be Wed - Friday where you are now, but our county has literally switched between giving them a full week and just TH & FR.  Christmas is not just two days, but can be almost 2 whole weeks (for us, it was 17 days last year) and then there is Spring Break and Easter to be had.  And if you live in parts of NY, you also have February Recess on top of Spring Break.  

Do you really want to readdress this in a couple of years?  Or worse deal with him being a jerk?

To me, this is setting up your Custody/Visitation with the future planned out NOW.  It is dealing with a very limiting visitation time up front.  

I know I sound pushy.  But I have lived both sides and honestly, I would fight tooth and nail to not have the holiday broken up in the middle.  

freeatlast2014

Ilumine said:

I understand you do not want to rock this boat...but the very first time either of you want to take a vacation during the christmas or thanksgiving breaks or either of you get an SO who may not want to work his/her holidays around your kids (maybe because they have their own blended family situation going), what are you going to do? 

Or what happens if he is late coming to pick them up or drop them off.  You are now waiting on him in the middle of the holiday day...

Hell have you even addressed the whole School Breaks yet?  Come a few short years, you are going to have to deal with covering WEEKS not just two days.  Are you, OP going to be the only one that has to cover/parent during these vacations?  Thanksgiving may only be Wed - Friday where you are now, but our county has literally switched between giving them a full week and just TH & FR.  Christmas is not just two days, but can be almost 2 whole weeks (for us, it was 17 days last year) and then there is Spring Break and Easter to be had.  And if you live in parts of NY, you also have February Recess on top of Spring Break.  

Do you really want to readdress this in a couple of years?  Or worse deal with him being a jerk?

To me, this is setting up your Custody/Visitation with the future planned out NOW.  It is dealing with a very limiting visitation time up front.  

I know I sound pushy.  But I have lived both sides and honestly, I would fight tooth and nail to not have the holiday broken up in the middle.  

We addressed all holiday breaks and every holiday I could think of. My lawyer (who sucks and is expensive and takes his side on most issues) is refusing to stand up for me yet again on an issue. She said if we go to a judge the way this is usually split is during the day on Christmas. I find that hard to believe as no other holiday is split in the middle of the day. And you raise an extremely good point - my ex is NEVER on time. Ever. So yes I will be spending my day waiting on him. I can almost guarantee it. I'm just not sure what else to do. I'm broke and can't keep fighting.

dannie2011

You really really need a new lawyer. Any lawyer would be better then the one who wont even back their client. 

aggy34

We get SD from 5 pm 12/23 until 9 pm 12/24 every year, not perfect as my family has had to make some adjustments to our routine to fit SD into the activities but worth it for her to be there.  DH's family doesn't celebrate on the actual holiday since his mom works in the ER at our local hospital and volunteers to work Christmas every year so the younger staff with kids can be with them. 

My family also does the big Christmas Eve celebration so we went with that arrangement.  BM refused to allow us to have SD Christmas morning and this was our compromise as she originally didn't want us having her any part of the holiday.  The mediator told her to grow up and except our offer of every Christmas Eve or he was awarding us rotating Christmas Day. 

aggy34

Forgot to add DH and I have a 3 year old and have done this schedule since before he was born. 

We have Santa (great family friend) come to Christmas Eve to hand out the Santa gifts so he doesn't come to our house overnight. This has become the tradition in our house so the kids do not think it is unusual. As for having to leave their new things to go to the other parent's house they adapt, for SD the holiday stretches out longer because she really doesn't get to play with her new things until her next weekend with us but she doesn't seem to mind it has become her normal. 

Bnnt5

Here's how we do it: BD has kids Christmas Eve until 4pm then brings them to me. I have them 4pm Christmas eve until 4pm Christmas day. That way, we each have a 'Christmas morning' with them and they get to attend all of the scheduled family gatherings for both sides.

la79al

Our CO states we alternate years.  One year we get noon the 24th-noon the 25th and then she gets noon the 25th-noon the 26th and then the next year it is the other way.  The rest of school break just goes by regular schedule.  Then we have 4 or 5 other holidays that we alternate years of I think 8am-8pm.  We are finally at a point where we wing holidays.  Even Christmas.  We all work together (DSD included) to come up with the least crappy option that gets everyone a little bit of what they want.  Christmas is a crazy 48 hours anyhow, trying to make sure a kid doesn't miss out on anything in 2 households is impossible.  

Also, I grew up in a house where moms family did Christmas Eve and there were younger siblings so I was always with mom until we were done lunch at the grandparents house on Christmas Day.  It kind of sucked to miss out on Christmas morning every year with my dad and his family and now, as a parent, I realize how much it must have really sucked for him too.