POLL! Your baby's penis....

jennyhatt

Stargirlb said:

CL8badB said:

@stargirlb Usually when someone is fighting for a cause they try to educate people. They dont show up to a protest chanting "circing is wrong... google to find out why!".

Hows about "my husband agrees...." Will that do?

At any protest I have been to it is usually a one statement thing that people chant over and over.
Hmmm. Maybe I've been to different protests than cl8badB though?

Stargirlb

jennyhatt said:

ChelCChargers said:

@MusicFanatic‌ obviously his penis isn't a burden on him, in his mind his foreskin is a burden on him. Maybe burden wasn't the right word to use. But he has always been bothered by not being circumcised. That's his opinion about his body though, and having lived with it for the past 26 years I value his opinion on the matter.

I suffered for a number of years from labia/clitoral hood itching that was pretty burdensome. My external genitals did feel like a burden. And yet strangely, I never wished that my parents had circumcised me at birth. 

Some uncut man probably gave you an infection )

HA! I actually got a kidney infection following my very first sexual intercourse experience with a CUT man. I had to go on some hardcore antibiotics. the itching happened after that and flared up and down for a year, and finally went away during pregnancy with my first. I had to go on antibiotics again for another kidney infection (also following sex with my CUT bf,)  after my daughter was born, and the irritation deal started up again after, off and on for two years. I underwent tests for it, my doc just chalked it up to the abx changing my natural bacterial load, and that some women get issues "down there" from that.  Nothing female circumcision can't solve, though!

GraceInCA

WillCMyInk said:

Stargirlb said:

Please, do your own research. I've posted a shitload of facts in prior threads, and as stated here, there are cutters who proudly do not research this issue. https://intaction.org/10-myths-about-circumcision/

This may have already been asked in the other 4 pages, but I'll likely forget if I don't type this now.

Can you provide a non-biased source? This source obviously favors leaving a man "intact".

I mentioned the AAP before. I think they have a good, balanced view of it.  They think that although the benefits outweigh the risks (and by risks, they're only talking about the medical risks of the procedure, they don't factor in the long-term ramifications), they still don't recommend routine circumcision and defer to parents.
https://www.healthychildren.org/English/ages-stages/prenatal/decisions-to-make/Pages/Where-We-Stand-Circumcision.aspx

Their opinion isn't a comprehensive one, and the "benefits" they're talking about are really negligible. As in, the rate of HIV transmission is infinitesimally small, so the reduced transmission rate isn't a statistically significant one, but it's still a reduction in the rate.  But you can tell by reading the language they use ("procedure's benefits justify access to this procedure for families who choose it") is really designed for the purpose of avoiding the inevitable insurance company denial of treatment. In a previous policy statement, they actually did side against it, taking a less neutral position, but they had to walk back their language after several states stopped covering the procedure.

I think the problem with many of the reasons people use to circumcise is that reasons that have  been debunked, but people don't realize it.  For example: UTIs.  There's this myth that uncircumcised males have higher UTI rates which poses greater risks. This isn't factually true. At most the rate of UTIs in uncircumcised baby boys is something like 1/100, but the rate of circumcision complication is 2/100. So in a case like that, the benefit doesn't outweigh the risk.  Same goes for HIV transmission rates (which in the western world is already low), and penile cancers (also very low). 

Here's a paper published in Pediatrics that discusses some of those issues.
https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/130/3/e756.full.pdf+html

You can always search scholar.google.com for published papers on these subjects. 

Stargirlb

CL8badB said:

I never said anything about my husband so that argument is invalid.

burden of evidence is on the cutters. Show me the benefits. "my husband likes it!" "my son doesn't have AIDS!" "his penis is less gross!" and "exercising my rights over his body! shut up!" 

jennyhatt

Stargirlb said:

CL8badB said:

I never said anything about my husband so that argument is invalid.

burden of evidence is on the cutters. Show me the benefits. "my husband likes it!" "my son doesn't have AIDS!" "his penis is less gross!" and "exercising my rights over his body! shut up!" 

Seriously? I just nearly peed my pants laughing. Oh my lord Brittany you make me laugh so much!

BookitBoo

https://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/article/S0025-6196(14)00036-6/abstract

ETA:


Totally didn't work. Throwing this one out
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/04/140402133855.htm

Stargirlb

jennyhatt said:

CL8badB said:

I never said anything about my husband so that argument is invalid.

burden of evidence is on the cutters. Show me the benefits. "my husband likes it!" "my son doesn't have AIDS!" "his penis is less gross!" and "exercising my rights over his body! shut up!" 

Seriously? I just nearly peed my pants laughing. Oh my lord Brittany you make me laugh so much!

:-c

GraceInCA

I think people just go with what they know. Our husbands came from a generation where 9 out of 10 of them were circumcised.  My mother-in-law told me that they didn't even ask her if she wanted it done with her kids, they just whisked each of the boys away after their births and did it.  Now, those of us becoming parents are used to seeing circumcised penises, so that's what we do. In Europe, they're used to seeing uncircumcised penises, so they don't circumcise. 

There's a shift in this country though, and parents are researching and making informed decisions. If I were a betting woman I'd say that in about 15 years time, the rates of circumcision in the U.S. would be closer to those in Europe and Asia.  It just takes time. I don't think you need to change the hearts and minds of every single person. It'll be a cultural shift.  But if you're going to talk about the subject, don't sound like an idiot doing so. "Google it" isn't a valid response in a situation like this.

LadyXaverian

BookitBoo said:

Throwing this one out https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/04/140402133855.htm

 This is what is wrong with America. /sarcasm

jennyhatt

BookitBoo said:

https://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/article/S0025-6196(14)00036-6/abstract

ETA:


Totally didn't work. Throwing this one out
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/04/140402133855.htm

This is obviously the biased view from the other side correct? They didn't show any of the findings of UTI s in circ'd men.
Not being snarky. Just sayin'.

Stargirlb

Oh my god not that "study" again. Half of all intact men in the USA will have an "adverse medical condition" due to their foreskin? Strange that this only happens in the USA where circumcision is the norm. Are the European men experiencing this same penile emergency where the body inexplicably can't handle their natural genitals? No. First of all, medical professionals in the US tend to give bs advice about 'caring for' an intact penis. Some will retract the foreskin or encourage parents to do so. Many will recommend circumcision to "treat" common infections. Can you imagine for circumcision was recommended to treat our female infections?
Even in where I am in canada, where circumcision is now the minority, I had a doctor request to retract my son's foreskin when he had an infection so he could "look" and "clean". Uh no. I have no problem refusing that shit but I can't imagine how many people might not know better. When I refused oral abx for his infection (I wanted to try topical first,) he told me this was reckless and that he would end up requiring a circumcision in the end. Guess what the topical cleared it up fine. (Small infected scratch on his penis from our new puppy.)

honeybeee3

ChelCChargers said:

@MusicFanatic‌ obviously his penis isn't a burden on him, in his mind his foreskin is a burden on him. Maybe burden wasn't the right word to use. But he has always been bothered by not being circumcised. That's his opinion about his body though, and having lived with it for the past 26 years I value his opinion on the matter.

I'm pretty much staying out of this circ debate but I have a question for you: why doesn't your husband get circ now if he dislikes having foreskin?

BookitBoo

I don't know if there is a 'side' in medical studies. If they were biased they wouldn't really have much point?

Of course it will need to be peer reviewed several times over. I'm just throwing it out there because it came up in the search for circumcision 2014, and that is the conversation at hand.

Do what you feel is best with your child's penis

BookitBoo

This business again? American men don't know how to care for their penis? Really?

karla1301

Stargirlb said:

I have to fend off at least a message a week on Facebook from someone with a pregnancy fetish. One guy wants to exchange pics. Or for me to give him the opportunity to take photos. I've had 4 offers from men who want to do maternity photos for me. Thanks but noooooo thanks!

Hot topic aside, these men may want to do so because you've got a lovely face. This whole topic did make me think a bit. My husband is circ'd and I never thought anything about it other than assume we'd have the little guy circ'd (it's the norm where we live). At the very least we'll have a conversation about what we are going to do.

YaMrWhite

So, same time different/day in about a week guys? Alright! Can't wait!  8-|

Stargirlb

"Circumcision reduces the risk of UTI. Given a risk in normal boys of about 1%, the number-needed-to-treat to prevent one UTI is 111. In boys with recurrent UTI or high grade vesicoureteric reflux, the risk of UTI recurrence is 10% and 30% and the numbers-needed-to-treat are 11 and 4, respectively. Haemorrhage and infection are the commonest complications of circumcision, occurring at rate of about 2%. "

https://m.adc.bmj.com/content/90/8/853.full

jennyhatt

These horrible UTI s are likely caused by all the dirty women with their dirty clits.
Chop off the clits and be done with it!

GraceInCA

BookitBoo said:

This business again? American men don't know how to care for their penis? Really?

Sadly, there is some truth in that statement. The training for pediatricians who went to medical school in the 70s, 80s, 90s, and even some more recently, involved an instruction to pull back on the foreskin of toddler aged boys. They were also taught to convey to parents that this is how it's cleaned. That's not good advice.

GraceInCA

As a BTDT mom, the weirdest thing ever is getting the poop out of baby girl folds. It was a routine occurrence during baby girl's infancy to hear my husband yell from the other room "WHAT IS HAPPENING HERE? How did you get poop that far in there??!?" The uncut boy was like a walk in the park compared to that.

motherboy

We're pro-circ because I really wish my parents had done something about my extra meaty vulva.

jennyhatt

motherboy said:

We're pro-circ because I really wish my parents had done something about my extra meaty vulva.

More for your man to suck on.
I think stargirlb once posted a thing on pussy sucking?

motherboy

jennyhatt said:

motherboy said:

We're pro-circ because I really wish my parents had done something about my extra meaty vulva.

More for your man to suck on.
I think stargirlb once posted a thing on pussy sucking?

Yes, and on meaty vulvas. I only wish I could be that descriptive.

Cbeanz

HFS this thread!

@Stargirlb‌ you never disappoint. Count me in your fan base sister!

kolaczka

Well with twin boys on the way we could do one with, one without. It could double as a social experiment and a way to tell them apart if they end up being identical.

Bigboneded

I would be inclined to not circ, my husband and I would fight about it if we werent having girls, we both agree the girls will not be cric'd.

WasNotWas

@Stargirlb‌ I'm sure you're fun at parties

Cbeanz

This was pretty insightful for any moms who want to keep baby intact while dad disagrees:

https://www.moralogous.com/2012/04/08/when-your-husband-wants-to-circumcise/

"Your husband has no right over his son’s body. He had a right to his own body all those years ago, and that right was denied, but that does not mean he now has the right to hide his pain by having his son circumcised. As mothers, we need to stand firm, because in this situation, we are the only ones who can stand for the baby’s rights."

Cbeanz

@ExcitedMama2‌ the point was that neither parent has rights over the body of another person. We can stand up for baby's rights but we have no right to make permanent non medically necessary changes to another person's body.

Edited for clarity. I'm obviously not talking about hair and nails.

melmarie4

I feel like a lot of men are happy they were circumcised because they will never know what it's like to be intact. It's not something they'd ever be able to change so why complain about it? Also if they said they regret it, it would be putting blame on their parents who made the decision for them. If you were happy with the way you were raised, you don't necessarily want to critique your parents on any of the decisions they made for you because you love them and you had a great childhood. I know this is in no way similar, but my mom got my ears pierced when I was an infant. A lot of people would say that's cruel or that she should have waited till I could make the decision for myself. I would defend her to no end and say I'm glad she did. I love that my ears are pierced. I'll pierce my daughter's ears as well. I think that's why some men want their sons circumcised because they are perfectly happy the way they are and they want their sons to be the same. I do think it's important that both parents do research and decide what's right for their son together. I hate the idea of just circumcising your son for no other reason than tradition. I feel like men were born with a foreskin for a reason, so it's kinda strange how our society thinks its necessary to remove what they were born with. A lot of people end up having their tonsils or appendixes removed sometime in their life, but we don't remove them as infants just in case they might cause a problem in the future.

TXUltraRunner

Every time I see this thread on the main page I think it says "Pull your baby's penis" 

Stargirlb

nursesouder said:

Every time I see this thread on the main page I think it says "Pull your baby's penis" 

I keep wondering why anyone would say your baby is penis? To that I reply your baby is vagina!

"baby's" is possessive. 

YaMrWhite

Cbeanz said:

This was pretty insightful for any moms who want to keep baby intact while dad disagrees: https://www.moralogous.com/2012/04/08/when-your-husband-wants-to-circumcise/ "Your husband has no right over his son’s body. He had a right to his own body all those years ago, and that right was denied, but that does not mean he now has the right to hide his pain by having his son circumcised. As mothers, we need to stand firm, because in this situation, we are the only ones who can stand for the baby’s rights."

I am so glad I do not think this way. Or maybe I'm glad I married a man who isn't "hiding his pain"...LMFAO.

Stargirlb

YaMrWhite said:

Cbeanz said:

This was pretty insightful for any moms who want to keep baby intact while dad disagrees: https://www.moralogous.com/2012/04/08/when-your-husband-wants-to-circumcise/ "Your husband has no right over his son’s body. He had a right to his own body all those years ago, and that right was denied, but that does not mean he now has the right to hide his pain by having his son circumcised. As mothers, we need to stand firm, because in this situation, we are the only ones who can stand for the baby’s rights."

I am so glad I do not think this way. Or maybe I'm glad I married a man who isn't "hiding his pain"...LMFAO.

There is a huge component there. Both my dhs were resistant to hearing any anti-circ arguments because it forces them to confront the fact that their penis is actually lacking a functional part. Many men are quite attached to or even proud of their penis. 

YaMrWhite

Stargirlb said:

YaMrWhite said:

Cbeanz said:

This was pretty insightful for any moms who want to keep baby intact while dad disagrees: https://www.moralogous.com/2012/04/08/when-your-husband-wants-to-circumcise/ "Your husband has no right over his son’s body. He had a right to his own body all those years ago, and that right was denied, but that does not mean he now has the right to hide his pain by having his son circumcised. As mothers, we need to stand firm, because in this situation, we are the only ones who can stand for the baby’s rights."

I am so glad I do not think this way. Or maybe I'm glad I married a man who isn't "hiding his pain"...LMFAO.

There is a huge component there. Both my dhs were resistant to hearing any anti-circ arguments because it forces them to confront the fact that their penis is actually lacking a functional part. Many men are quite attached to or even proud of their penis. 

Or maybe it was because of how you presented the information.........

Edit to add: not saying that is right but you have a way of presenting information that juuuust doesn't make some people want to hear it...you know...the whole "vinegar" analogy.

Stargirlb

YaMrWhite said:

Stargirlb said:

YaMrWhite said:

Cbeanz said:

This was pretty insightful for any moms who want to keep baby intact while dad disagrees: https://www.moralogous.com/2012/04/08/when-your-husband-wants-to-circumcise/ "Your husband has no right over his son’s body. He had a right to his own body all those years ago, and that right was denied, but that does not mean he now has the right to hide his pain by having his son circumcised. As mothers, we need to stand firm, because in this situation, we are the only ones who can stand for the baby’s rights."

I am so glad I do not think this way. Or maybe I'm glad I married a man who isn't "hiding his pain"...LMFAO.

There is a huge component there. Both my dhs were resistant to hearing any anti-circ arguments because it forces them to confront the fact that their penis is actually lacking a functional part. Many men are quite attached to or even proud of their penis. 

Or maybe it was because of how you presented the information.........

Edit to add: not saying that is right but you have a way of presenting information that juuuust doesn't make some people want to hear it...you know...the whole "vinegar" analogy.

well they both came around, so clearly i did something right

Lanatir

If you're having/had a boy, your boy's penis is a penis!  YAY!

Cbeanz

YaMrWhite said:

Cbeanz said:

This was pretty insightful for any moms who want to keep baby intact while dad disagrees:

https://www.moralogous.com/2012/04/08/when-your-husband-wants-to-circumcise/

I am so glad I do not think this way. Or maybe I'm glad I married a man who isn't "hiding his pain"...LMFAO.

Maybe have the hypothetical conversation with your H and actually see what he has to say.

YaMrWhite

Cbeanz said:

YaMrWhite said:

Cbeanz said:

This was pretty insightful for any moms who want to keep baby intact while dad disagrees:

https://www.moralogous.com/2012/04/08/when-your-husband-wants-to-circumcise/

I am so glad I do not think this way. Or maybe I'm glad I married a man who isn't "hiding his pain"...LMFAO.

Maybe have the hypothetical conversation with your H and actually see what he has to say.

Already have

Cbeanz

@YaMrWhite‌ if you two agree on your anti-circ stance consider yourself lucky. There were certainly a lot of women on here yesterday whose husbands disagree for no other reason than the fact that it had been done to them.