Irritating potty behavior

greyt00

Anyone else's PT'd child with ASD totally weird about the potty?

1. It takes him forever to go #2. He thinks it's fun to get off the potty, run around and come find us, then go back in.  We quit sitting there with him because he took soooooooo long and he likes to go during dinner.  Thanks, I want to eat.  

2. He has to flush, or he melts down.  I have no problem with him flushing, if he will DO IT.  If for whatever reason he doesn't want potty to be over, he won't flush, so then we do, and he melts down.

IT IS SO ANNOYING.  Every good thing he does comes with this irritating baggage.  I'm extra irritated because we played #2 (above) this morning at 5:20 AM.  He is not doing well at night anymore.  I think we have to refuse to take him to the bathroom until we're ready to be up for the day.  If he would be normal about the toilet, it would be fine to go one time, but no.  Also, yesterday we tried to do his medicine trial with me present and it was way too soon.  I took him an hour to comply and we missed our next appointment.  It was just a vaccine, but I had everything lined up to handle on my day off, and now this needs to be re-scheduled.  Grrrr!  Even when I take a day off to take care of yucky stuff, it's not enough.  

He is not constipated.  This is purely a behavioral issue.  Oh look, something I'm supposed to do, so I'm going to be annoying about it.  

Impatient people with Type A personalities CANNOT DO THIS!

MirandaHobbes

I'm sorry- yea, I can relate. DS is 6 and #2 takes for-ev-er. He doesn't get off the potty though, I'd nip that in the bud immediately. And making him go by himself is a good start too- if he isn't being entertained by someone hopefully he'll speed things up. I would tell your DS something like "people don't like to hang out in the potty with other people" and reinforce that the bathroom is a place to do your private business and that's it. DS just likes to take his time I guess, and wiping is a whole ordeal. DH still goes in and "checks" him because DS is afraid he's still dirty (and he's clogged our toilet several times)- this drives me batty that he still does this and I always refuse. He's been on playdates and the parents have mentioned that "DS spent a long time in our bathroom..." Totally mortifying, so I've really tried to clamp down on this behavior as a social issue. Your DS is only 3.5 so you've got time!

The worst is when he decides he has to go as we're on our way out to school in the morning. He's almost been tardy a couple times. Now I remind him of this before he goes in- I'll say "you have 2 minutes or you'll be tardy" and set a timer. The timer does make him anxious, but he'll usually comply. Or I'll tell him he has to wait and use the toilet at school, which he doesn't like for obvious reasons.

We went camping this summer and you would think he would have sped it up in the disgustingly gross vault toilets but nope- he was in there quite a bit.

greyt00

I'll blame his dad.  He takes a long time to go.  As for me, man, I do not enjoy the process, I don't want to be in there.  It is QUICK.  

"He doesn't get off the potty though, I'd nip that in the bud immediately."

Not sure what you mean.  What if he really isn't done?  If he gets off he doesn't get to go anymore,  For 20 minutes or so? 

I hate to make the toilet a negative thing.... afraid he will regress or get some sort of potty fear.  A kid in my family (neurotypical, but I think has some sort of social/emotional issue) had some potty issue and pooped in a diaper/pullup through *kindergarten* though he was trained for pee years before (he simply held it until he got home).  Gah.  His mom also slept in his room with him until sometime after he turned 7.  I have no idea why.  She would NEVER be able to handle a kid like DS1, if she's so averse to doing the "hard thing" and deal with disturbances.

Anyway, yeah I guess we probably need to make him be done when he gets up.  But it will be the same cr@p as usual, screaming and crying. And he will just ask to go again right away.  

It's no wonder I've lost weight, or never gained weight back after I came off the restricted diet.  I lose my appetite when I get home dealing with this insanity at dinner time.  Ugh.

greyt00

I just can't freaking stand it.  He is actually eating a few things now, which is great, but like I said, every good thing comes with ridiculous annoying baggage.  We have to prompt him to sit down, to eat, to keep his fork on the plate/table (not stick it in the freaking window pane), to eat, to sit down, use the fork, eat, to sit down.  UGH!!!!!  And DH isn't coming home tonight until very late so I'm on my own.  I hate when I'm on my own at dinner time.  I have half a mind to make a pizza for DS2 (that's usually what we do Friday night) and skip my own dinner until they are in bed.

MirandaHobbes

greyt00 said:

"He doesn't get off the potty though, I'd nip that in the bud immediately."

Not sure what you mean.  What if he really isn't done?  If he gets off he doesn't get to go anymore,  For 20 minutes or so? 

 

Yea, sorry, easier said than done! I guess I mean that if he's getting off the potty because he's bored or trying to get your attention I'd firmly and swiftly bring him back to the bathroom and tell him he needs to sh!t or get off the pot- so to speak, and that potty time is for using the toilet and not coming out. Is he a rule-boy? I'd make mine wash his hands every time he came out. My guess is that he'd get tired of washing hands all the time so he'd tire of it. I hear you on not making it negative. I don't think you have to make it negative, just like "oh, you're all done? Okay. Wash your hands and sit down and eat."

 

This is all well and good but if I am remembering my son at age 3 and a half he would have laughed in my face. Once he came out of the bathroom with his pants down and wiped his butt on my couch. 3 is a very frustrating age!!!!

I hate to make the toilet a negative thing.... afraid he will regress or get some sort of potty fear.  

 

greyt00

He is not a rules boy.  The second he is removed from the toilet, regardless of what I say, how I make it sound, he will scream and cry, and possibly even fling himself around.  Trying to get him to stand at the sink and wash his hands is probably a joke at best and dangerous at worst.  We can try the hand washing (because, gross).  But if he's flailing around I can't.  

As for night time, we may just have to ignore any request he makes.  You give an inch, he wants a mile.  He is very smart and very manipulative.  He wears a diaper at night.  I'm just waiting for the day he flips out about that and says he wants underwear not a diaper.  Not going to happen.  We have enough problems. 

Really, really, really, really hope DS2 is typical and more obedient.  So far he seems a lot like me as a young kid. 

greyt00

wife07mom09 said:

greyt00 said:

Anyone else's PT'd child with ASD totally weird about the potty?

we are not there yet so take my words with that in mind.

1. It takes him forever to go #2. He thinks it's fun to get off the potty, run around and come find us, then go back in.  We quit sitting there with him because he took soooooooo long and he likes to go during dinner.  Thanks, I want to eat.  

Why cant you utilize a timer? This sounds behavioral, not a true need to use the restroom.

That is a good idea.  I think we should try that.  However, he DOES go.  He just doesn't want to be finished.

2. He has to flush, or he melts down.  I have no problem with him flushing, if he will DO IT.  If for whatever reason he doesn't want potty to be over, he won't flush, so then we do, and he melts down.

Try a positive reinforcement first.  Once you flush, you can (whatever, choose your plate for dinner, choose your seat at dinner, serve yourself at dinner, pick your bedtime story, have time at the park after dinner whatever).  If he does not comply he loses the priveldge you offered and you flush the toilet. end of discussion. Dont say another word about it. Move on.

I will have to think of something, I am not sure what to offer him.

IT IS SO ANNOYING.  Every good thing he does comes with this irritating baggage.  I'm extra irritated because we played #2 (above) this morning at 5:20 AM.  He is not doing well at night anymore.  I think we have to refuse to take him to the bathroom until we're ready to be up for the day.  If he would be normal about the toilet, it would be fine to go one time, but no. 

understandable and he knows this.  He is also 3 and I am guessing cognitively has the knowledge to push your buttons.

 Also, yesterday we tried to do his medicine trial with me present and it was way too soon.  I took him an hour to comply and we missed our next appointment. 

again, limited on the knowledge here with a med trial but an hour seems way way too long to try something. If he isnt complying he isnt complying. One hour is not a sucess. Are his therapists working out a strategy with you?  And if you missed an appointment then he won the game.

His BCBA did the trial with me.  We offered him a spoonful of something he didn't want.  We prompt him that it's time to take his medicine.  He didn't want to do it.  He had to do it.  

I disagree that he won.  HE TOOK IT.  He knew nothing of the appointment, so he didn't win just because he missed his appointment.  

The mistake we made is that it was too early for me to be involved.  His BCBA had just started a couple days ago, so it was new for her and him.  His previous BCBA had been doing it for a couple of weeks when we were reassigned, and they stopped doing it for a few weeks during the transition.  He knows her, though.  She was our first BCBA. 

He is not constipated.  This is purely a behavioral issue.  Oh look, something I'm supposed to do, so I'm going to be annoying about it.  

so you understand this is a behavioral issue. Take the ASD out of it. Treat him like a normal 3 year old. Behaviors have consequences.  Deal with the ASD behaviors as they crop up.  Mine guy is 2 and thats pretty much ho we deal with most things.

Impatient people with Type A personalities CANNOT DO THIS!

you can, it is just challenging.  I truly understand.  Best wishes for a better week.

Thank you.

greyt00

-auntie- said:

greyt00 said:

Anyone else's PT'd child with ASD totally weird about the potty?

1. It takes him forever to go #2.

Does he have hypotonia? Kids with low tone often have trouble with the physical aspects of moving their bowels. Sensory issues can also play into this; he may not be "reading" his body's signals about when he needs to go correctly. if his diet is marginal, he's not well hydrated or he's reluctant to "go" at preschool he could be making this harder than it has to be in a literal and figurative sense.

Yes, he has hypotonia.  I honestly DO think he has a little trouble with it.  That's part of it.  But another part is that he is trying to make a game out of it.  Last night I did well with him, and I was by myself.  Or, maybe I was just lucky.  He came out once, clearly wanted me to ask him if he was done, and i ignored him.  He went back in.  As he was going back I followed him and told him the next time he came out, he would be all done.  I noticed there was plenty of poo in the toilet.  He came out, I said he was finished, he flushed, and everything was fine.  We'll see if we can make it happen that way again.

 He thinks it's fun to get off the potty, run around and come find us, then go back in.  We quit sitting there with him because he took soooooooo long and he likes to go during dinner.  Thanks, I want to eat.  

Behavior is communication. It's weird that a kid would need to stool during dinner. Physiologically, we're designed to poop not long after we eat. Many kids need to go about half an hour after a meal. If you've been feeding him a snack while fixing dinner- you may be causing this. But I suspect it's just a bid for attention.

It isn't at dinner every day.  We had a week where it felt like it was.  Lately it's been better.  He gets 1 puree pouch on the way home.  He doesn't eat for a little while other than that.  Yesterday it happened to be during dinner again.  I wonder too if he might be holding it so that he can play his game with us at home.  That would resolve itself once we handle it properly at home. 

2. He has to flush, or he melts down.  I have no problem with him flushing, if he will DO IT.  If for whatever reason he doesn't want potty to be over, he won't flush, so then we do, and he melts down.

I'd nip this sh*t in the bud. The only way he can get to a place where he's OK when others flush (or do anything different than what he wants or expects) is to sabotage his sorry butt. Alternately, you could allow the flush as a carrot for cooperation and compliance. 

I see two approaches for this depending on his cognition. For a bright, otherwise capable kid, I might do a Social Story about going to the bathroom. You could even laminate the "rules" for display which allows you to not nag- you just point to the poster.

If he's not there in terms of cognition/maturity, I reach out to a behaviorist for help.

IT IS SO ANNOYING.  Every good thing he does comes with this irritating baggage.  I'm extra irritated because we played #2 (above) this morning at 5:20 AM.  He is not doing well at night anymore.  I think we have to refuse to take him to the bathroom until we're ready to be up for the day.  If he would be normal about the toilet, it would be fine to go one time, but no.  

Ideally you want him independent in the bathroom. You really, really want him to be able to manage this. It's not good for a kid to need help in the bathroom going forward in school. If you're unwilling to get up at 5:20- can you put a small potty chair in his room and let him use that without waking you?

TBH, a lot of kids on spectrum don't sleep well or need the quanity of sleep typical kids do. Or that their moms need for them. 

I know.  Sleeping has sucked for us all year.

If he wasn't waking you to use the bathroom, he'd probably be hungry or thirsty or have some other issue that needed your attention. A lot of parents use a wake up alarm to train their child on spectrum to keep more regular hours. A special toy that he could have only in his room in the am can sometimes work to buy some sleep.

He can get on the toilet by himself.  He'd have to come downstairs to the half bathroom.  I do not trust him in the full bathroom adjoined to his room while we are sleeping.  I'm a little worried that giving him a potty chair would mess things up with the regular toilet.  But we might have to do it if staying in his room doesn't improve.

Also, yesterday we tried to do his medicine trial with me present and it was way too soon.  I took him an hour to comply and we missed our next appointment.  It was just a vaccine, but I had everything lined up to handle on my day off, and now this needs to be re-scheduled.  Grrrr!  Even when I take a day off to take care of yucky stuff, it's not enough.  

I don't understand. What are you trialing and how did it take an hour? Are you working with a behaviorist around this?

His BCBA did the trial with me.  We offered him a spoonful of liquid he didn't want.  We prompt him that it's time to take his medicine.  He didn't want to do it.  TThe purpose of this is for him to accept liquid medicine.  Right now the kid has to get antibiotic injections if he needs antibiotics and suppositories for fever/pain relief. I cannot give him anything else.  It sucks.

He is not constipated.  This is purely a behavioral issue.  Oh look, something I'm supposed to do, so I'm going to be annoying about it.  

Impatient people with Type A personalities CANNOT DO THIS!

Type As are exactly the people who can handle this. It sounds like your kid is a pretty headstrong little individual and that there's a fair amount of tail wagging the dog. Type As are well suited to wrestling control from tiny emperors. The more overt authority you project with clear expectations, the more he'll be able to let go of his need to micromanage your household and settle into being a child. 

 

greyt00

Regarding sitting at the table, he is not good, but he is so much better than he used to be.  We are coming from a time where he A) barely ate anything at all and wouldn't sit at the table.  Now he eats a decent amount of food, but it's nearly the same dinner every day.  At least his lunch, which is what he eats during his feeding therapy session, is different.  We are working on it.  Anyway, he gets up and darts into the living room, or comes over to us and asks for a hug, or grabs some toys.  We need to collect whatever he was playing with before eating and tell him he can have it back when he is finished.  The fear is that he would decide he'd rather play than eat.  Historically, this is a big fear.  He was eating so little he was not growing appropriately.  People who tell you to be tougher and that "they won't starve" have no idea what it's like to deal with this.  There probably are not people like this in this particular forum.  Anyway, I am working on controlling my fears about this.  I have come a long way (as he has made improvements with his eating) but we need to keep moving.  

For example: He loves cheese (now).  One time he asked for triangle cheese.  He wanted me to cut it into triangles. I refused.  He insisted, I ignored.  He tore up his cheese in 3 pieces and threw it on the floor.  He asked for more cheese.  I said no, pointed to his cheese, and said it was on the floor.  He insisted some more, I ignored.  After a few minutes he picked up the pieces, took them to his little table, and ate them.    Of course I don't want him eating off the floor, but I made my point.  That gave me some confidence.  A year ago, or even 6 months ago maybe, I would have cut it for him.  And then a little later he would have made a different demand.  And then a different demand.  And after while, he would stop thinking of demands and he would simply stop eating it completely.  I can see it playing out now, if I had done what he asked, because I think it happened in the past, those many months before his diagnosis (with various foods).  But 1-2 years ago we had no way of knowing what we were facing and how we should handle.  Anyway, that's something that clicked in my head after the triangle cheese incident.

Sorry for the novel.