Anyone thinking of upgrading to bigger car before baby comes?

heathereb23

kmc84 said:

@dp21‌ the Rav4 is a FOUR person vehicle with five seatbelts. You can never, ever, ever have someone in the driver side and center seat at the same time.

ETA: it says this in the new manuals (2014 on, but is true for 2006 on) I have seen several people who were sold a Rav4 as a 'family' car and the salespeople had no idea of this restriction

I have a 2013 RAV4 and I have sat in the back middle seat, with a full car of 5 adult passengers, all with seatbelts on. I don't recall it being a problem...

kmc84

heathereb23 said:

kmc84 said:

@dp21‌ the Rav4 is a FOUR person vehicle with five seatbelts. You can never, ever, ever have someone in the driver side and center seat at the same time.

ETA: it says this in the new manuals (2014 on, but is true for 2006 on) I have seen several people who were sold a Rav4 as a 'family' car and the salespeople had no idea of this restriction

I have a 2013 RAV4 and I have sat in the back middle seat, with a full car of 5 adult passengers, all with seatbelts on. I don't recall it being a problem...

Yes, you CAN buckle all the seatbelts, but just because you can does NOT make it safe. Doing this leaves the driver side and center passanger at risk in a crash due to the overlapping seatbelts. Earlier in this thread I posted a link to a picture of the overlapping belts. @heathereb23‌

heathereb23

I'm pretty sure mine don't look like your picture, 2013 was a new model year and maybe they fixed the issue? I do not recall any overlapping. Would encourage anyone considering a RAV to check it out themselves in the showroom.

dp21

@heathereb23, @kmc84, @pblge Hey ladies, I had to see if what KMC84 said was true so I went to Toyota website this morning and looked up its 2015 manual.  There was nothing under the seatbelt portion (so I think that means 5 adults are safe).  However, under the childrestraint section... it says on Page 73 with a lovely picture and a forbidden sign "When using the left side seat for the child restrain system, do not sit in the center seat.  Seat belt function may be impaired, such as being positioned overly high or loose-fitting, which may result in death or serious injury in the event of sudden braking or an accident." 

Here is the link to the manual on Toyota's website:  https://www.toyota.com/owners/web/pages/resources/owners-manuals?p_p_id=changemodelyear_WAR_toyotaownersonlineportlet&p_p_lifecycle=1&p_p_state=normal&p_p_mode=view&_changemodelyear_WAR_toyotaownersonlineportlet_action=processRequest&_changemodelyear_WAR_toyotaownersonlineportlet_javax.portlet.action=processRequest#Owners-Manuals

hopeby2015

That pic made me sooooo nervous! We have the 2014 Rav4 and so, I checked out the seat belts over the weekend - doesn't look like the pic.

kmc84

@hopeby2015‌ did you fully connect the middle seatbelt? The connector to make the lap/shoulder portion is in the middle of the drivers side seat....

heathereb23

kmc84 said:

@hopeby2015‌ did you fully connect the middle seatbelt? The connector to make the lap/shoulder portion is in the middle of the drivers side seat....

If it weren't dark, I would go take a picture of my backseat for you. They must have changed this for 2013+ models. @hopeby2015‌ and I are both saying ours don't look like your picture...

kmc84

I'm really not trying to argue, so please don't take it as that. I am passionate about carseat and passanger safety.

The backseat has been the same since 2006 in the Rav4; they have sadly not fixed the seatbelt design, only added the bit in the carseat section in the 2015 manual that dp21 posted. If you do some digging, you'll find it's in all models since 2006.

This is a great article (from 2013) for car shopping in general, and it also talks about the Rav4 issues.

https://vicarseattechs.com/2013/vehicle-shopping-with-car-seat-goggles/

FYI new Highlanders and Corollas also have this poor design in the backseat

I don't want to keep posting about this and look like I'm just trying to argue, really that's not the point, I just want everyone safe

I strongly encourage everyone to join (when you all are ready to start looking at carseats!) Car Seats for the Littles on Facebook. It's a group run by CPSTs. They can help find the best carseat for your car and situation. There are actually infant seats that don't fit newborns....crazy right?!?!

hopeby2015

I don't mind you bringing it to my attention .. it's good info to be aware of. I usually have adults only in the car - so when sitting in the back seat, no one puts on their seatbelt ... so it never crossed my mind to consider any of this!

However, I looked at my car this morning to check one more time and they must have changed the design - also dunno if this makes a difference but I don't have the base model, I have the next one up. The seatbelt in the middle doesn't over lap with the others exactly. It's an over the shoulder seatbelt that can then extend to across your lap but I honestly don't know how to connet it yet. I will have to do more digging.

dp21

@heathereb23 and @hopeby2015 It is not an issue with adults, I don't know if you saw my post about just reading your Toyota manual, but the 2014 and 2015 manual online says it is only an issue using a carseat (which is what most of us care about with a baby on the way...I started this forum to help me pick a family car for a growing family).  See post above. Thanks @KMC84 for making us aware!  I seriously would not have noticed or even looked at the manual before buying the car because we really liked the Toyota Rav 4, we are now looking at all the manuals of the cars we are considering (especially the child restraint sections).  Obviously other posters already own their cars and Toyota Rav 4 is pretty good   And if the adults don't wear seatbelts in back, well you don't have an issue right   They just have a little bit more knowledge when placing car seats in back and other people  

As for me, I don't own a Toyota Rav4, we took it off our list because we would like the option of squeezing 5 in back on those rare occasions (and we expect everyone to wear seatbelts). I don't like the idea of having to configure people/car seats in a certain configuration to be safe.  After reading the Outback manual, learned the center latches are far apart (not standard) and the car seat we registered for would not work (Chicco Key Fit 30 which only fits standard latch distances, after reading its manual), so we switched it over to Britax B-Safe for a better fit.  Thanks again for your tips because not only did you help us not buy the Rav 4 but also got us into making sure carseat works with the car we choose!  So many things to think about!  Too much manual reading, but it will be worth it in the end.  Some may think it's overkill, but we want to be happy and safe with our purchases. 

We are finally set, thanks everyone for all your thoughts and opinions, this was really helpful!!!! Can't wait to get our new car!  

kmc84

@dp21 I swear you guys must be so sick of me!!!! Just so you know, you can not use LATCH in the middle of any Subaru. The car and carseat must allow LATCH borrowing, and Subaru does not. When used correctly, LATCH is not safer than the seatbelt, and vice versa.

dp21

@kmc84 We read the manual on 2015 Sabaru and I think it said Latch borrowing is ok for the middle but it also stated that it would not be a standard distance apart and further apart, that is why we switched the car seats.

And it states "Lower anchorages (bars) for window-side seating positions may be used for a seat in the center seating position if a child restraint system manufacturer's instructions permit and specify anchors as far apart as those in this vehicle."    Page I-29 in 2015 manual

The Britax B-Safe can do anchors further apart (up to 20 inches or something...I can't remember), the Chicco Key Fit 30 must have anchors 11 inches apart.  That's why we switched.

Link to 2015 manual: 
https://www.subaru.com/owners/resource-center/owners-manuals/search.html

OOO... I looked up 2014 manual.  The 2014 manual says seatbelt only for middle and does not recommend middle for child restraint system.  Wow, again, this is why we are reading manuals and manuals for different years!  Stark contrast between 2014 and 2015 model years!  Thanks KMC84 again! 

Here is 2014 manual link:


I guess we better go with 2015 model!!!!!!!!

kmc84

@dp21‌ This picture is from the 2015 manual and the wording is identical in my 2010 manual.

kmc84

How interesting that the manual contradicts itself! Clear as mud?! I do know that CPSTs follow the no LATCH borrowing rule for Subaru. I personally would not be comfortable LATCH borrowing in this situation. Other cars that allow LATCH borrowing are very clear that it is ok to do.

I'm actually going to ask on CSFTLs and see what they have to say. I'm most curious right now!!

dp21

It does, just doesn't show it in the picture, you have to read page I-29 in 2015, I-27 in 2014, it is in the wording.  However, it is only in the 2015 model that you can use LATCH.  The 2014 manual says it is not ok. 

Uploaded screen shots from 2015 and 2014 manual. 

dp21

@KMC84 look at the two pages I just posted, let me know what you think.  The 2015 manual is on the left, 2014 on right.  The information is pretty different. 

dp21

Also many car seat checkers may not have really worked with 2015 Sabaru model yet....people are just starting to buy them.