CIO

babym6705

I know this is a hot topic and I have read the 4 month sleep regression post but I am really struggling here. My LO isn't napping and is waking every 2 hours at night. I'm exhausted and frustrated and considering letting him CIO.

I never let my 4.5 yr old DD CIO and she still wakes 1-2 a night. I love her but she is an awful sleeper and I really don't want this kid to struggle with sleep.

So, I am curious, what is your stance on CIO?

(Also, if you plan to use CIO, do you have any guidelines or recommendations? The thought of this is breaking my heart, but I don't know what else to do at this point. Also, please don't recommend a book, I can barely find time to eat, let alone read an entire book, lol.)

TIA

edoliesmom

I'm blessed with a very good sleeper, so I can't really say what I would do in your situation. I'm hoping she continues on this path of good sleeping! Sorry you're having to consider CIO. I hope you both find some peace soon.

hlm184

We've been up every two hours for over six weeks, and every hour for three weeks now.  Last night he managed four hours, which was amazing.

I selected "Not using CIO" although I made a deal with myself that I would reconsider if this remains a problem by six months.

cjpell0

LO will be 5 months on the 23rd and for the past month+ he's slept like absolute crap. He went from 9-6ish with one easy middle of the night feed to waking up every 45-60 minutes (worst) to every 2 hours (at best). I still can't bring myself to do CIO and I honestly don't think he has the personality for it anyway. We've always let him fuss until he cries before intervening and I can't remember one time the fussing ever didn't lead to crying. 

babym6705

hlm184 said:

We've been up every two hours for over six weeks, and every hour for three weeks now.  Last night he managed four hours, which was amazing.

I selected "Not using CIO" although I made a deal with myself that I would reconsider if this remains a problem by six months.

I like the deal you made with yourself. I might do the same.

J&NL

I said 6 months but I didn't really "CIO" until DD was about a year old. I never actually let her cry until she fell asleep. I just didn't jump up at every cry. If she was fussing or whining then I wouldn't pick her up but if she was truly crying, then I would pick her up. I believe babies don't cry for no reason so for me to ignore them when they're calling for me just seems cruel, however like I said if they are just whining or fussing then I let it go for a little longer.

That was redundant.

UnofficiallyLO

I voted no CIO but I am blessed with a great sleeper. I honestly can't say what I would do in a sleepless situation so I try not to judge.

pineconey

I let him fuss and cry for a little bit, but my son doesn't fall asleep in his own without being held or in his car seat. There's no such thing as putting him down "drowsy but awake". He's either fully awake or fully asleep. That's why CIO isn't an option here, even I wanted it to be.

baileymama3

I don't do CIO for MOTN cause he is crying because he is hungry. I do it when I put him down drowsy for naps or bedtime. I let him fuss cry only. As soon as it gets to harder crying I go and hold him and try again. I Am not sure if I will do CIO for MOTN until much older, like after 1.

hordol

I voted CIO at 6 months but I'm more in the "stepped soothing" camp rather than full out CIO....though I never say never. DS has been waking SIX TO EIGHT TIMES PER NIGHT FOR SIX WEEKS. Sorry to yell, but I am so over this and exhausted. I've started stepped soothing for putting him to bed, but that's usually easy because it doesn't take much to initially put him to sleep. However I have no idea what to do about the repeated wake ups because he doesn't just fuss MOTN, he screams. So I've been picking him up and letting him nurse which I'm sure isn't helping. I would give anything for like, only 3 wakings. He's sleeping way worse now than he ever has, even fresh from the hospital.

AcaAwkward

We did Ferber with DD at 6 months for bedtime (not MOTN -- she didn't STTN until 11 months and, as a BFed baby, I didn't feel comfortable not feeding her if she cried). I never thought I'd be okay with CIO, but all of a sudden, she wouldn't nurse to sleep (she'd close her eyes, start to snooze, I'd put her down, and she'd scream bloody murder) and it was taking up to 2 hours at night to soother her to sleep (most if that time, she was crying anyway as we held / rocked / bounced her). She definitely cried (not just fussing) and I hated it so much, but after 2 nights, we could put her down drowsy, she'd play or talk to herself, then fall asleep. She is still very attached to me, and LOVES her bed (she will ask to take a nap or go to bed if it's past her normal bedtime), so I'm pretty sure I didn't do any permanent damage.

DS is a better sleeper as an infant than DD was so I'm not sure if I'll need to CIO again, but I would if I needed to. While I definitely don't believe it's developmentally appropriate for a baby younger than 6 months, I also cannot imagine doing it with a 2 year old... My DD could scream and cry for hours if she put her mind to it.

ksulli

We did it with dd1 at 6 months because nobody had slept more than 3 hours since she was born, and every time she woke up we needed to nurse/snuggle/bounce until she was asleep again- 30min-1hr. It was awful. We tried to do the graduated thing (5 minutes, soothe, 10 minutes, soothe, etc) but every time we went in the room & left she went back to full blown eruptions. We wound up letting her cry herself out, and it was pure torture. It only happened once though, the next night it took her 10 minutes, and the next she didn't fuss at all. Didn't change the waking frequently thing, but she did start going back to sleep without the hour routine.

This LO falls asleep much better, but is still up at least 3x a night (between 9pm and 6am) which is not ideal. Right now we're trying to determine if she's actually hungry at these times or not- DH goes in to snuggle/comfort her back to sleep, and if it doesn't take I feed her. I'm really hoping that we'll skip sleep training all together since she's able to happily fall asleep on her own.

Mmk724

I voted no but who can say for sure... It wouldn't be before 6 months if I ever decided to do it. We were dealing with bad sleep for 6 weeks much like everyone described. I had always nursed to sleep but when it didn't work the other day, he appeared to be drowsy so I laid him down. I stayed in there with him while he kicked around and babbled for about 30 min. He stated to look tired so I gave him his wubanub and he fell asleep on his own for the first time ever. I have been trying to do the same for every nap and it's working.

As for wake ups during nap time, I would always go in as soon as DS stirred to try to soothe because I was afraid he would wake himself up fully if I waited too long. When going in right away wasn't working either, I decided to just leave him in his crib awake but not crying to see what happened. It took about 30 min but he fell back asleep. He never cried though. If he would have, I would've went in to soothe him.

All that to say I never thought he would be able to put himself to sleep on his own and he did without crying.

AcaAwkward

@poru -- one of my good friends has a DS who is the same age as DD.  when they transitioned him out of the crib, he would get out of his bed and come downstairs ALL. NIGHT. LONG.  After a month of no one sleeping, they put a lock on his door. They tried coming in and checking on him when he would get out of bed and cry at the door, but, again, he'd be up half the night.  Finally they let him CIO while also talking to him on the monitor and reassuring him they were downstairs and he was safe... the first night, he cried for 2 hours.  They felt terrible; I felt terrible for them!  I can't even imagine -- toddlers are DETERMINED little boogers! 

zazu13

Yes, at 6 months (next month). I am counting down. Ok, Not really. I have twins who are pretty good sleepers but require being rocked for night and naps. They wake occasionally to eat and go back down easily. Sometimes the rocking is for 1 hour or more. I dont mind it, but it is hard to do alone. I'm going back to work part time and dont want them to be a nightmare for DH when he is alone or at the sitter's house. Also they currently wake each other and I need them to learn to ignore each other since they share a room. We're also going to ditch the RnP for good.

I was anti-CIO at first, but I am coming to terms with the idea. I really hope it only takes 3 days.

SoulTermination

I voted SS. I really don't want to do CIO, but if DH and I are at the ends of our ropes then I'd give measured soothing a shot, with full-on CIO only if I've seen her self-soothing a bit already (which I think I have).

ambarnett1

We're going to do the Ferber method of CIO for now.

BGGP9196

I truely don't believe that a baby can be manipulative (or spoiled)  under 6 months old but they do start to understand if I do a then b happens around 6 months old.  

With DD1 we were pretty strict with her bedtime routine from 3 months on (slight variations when we were out and about).  At 730 pm every night we would change her into pjs, put on her bedtime lotion, read her books, say a prayer, and I would nurse her one last time in her room in the dark, I would hold her until she fell asleep.   If it was a bath night, we started the bath at 7-715pm and went right into the bedtime routine after bath.  At 6 months old she knew the routine and would get drowsy during her last feeding but I put her in bed awake.   The first night she cried for an hour, then next night 45 minutes, then next night 5 minutes, then 4th night not at all.

For her (and we are doing the same for DD2 now) I think the routine was the most important part.   We had to be very very strict with it whenever we were home and not vary on the times, but I didn't rearrange our lives; if we were out for dinner or at a family party we didn't leave early to be home for bedtime routines.  I tried to find a balance between the two since I didn't want to have the opposite problem where my kids weren't flexible with thier bedtimes.

eireyes

I'm hoping we won't have to do CIO, but I'll never say never. Aiden currently can put himself to sleep if I do the put down drowsy-but-awake. Heck, if he's tired there have been a few times where I've put him down in the crib wide awake, run downstairs to let the dog out, and come back upstairs to a passed out baby. I'm hoping he continues this trend, because I don't want to have to let him cry...

cd92007

I've been doing "fuss it out"... When he's very tired he will fuss for about 5 minutes and then fall asleep. If he starts crying harder instead, I'll go in and comfort him. This has been working well for us lately.. The majority of the time he's fussing he does fall asleep on his own. All the bouncing/rocking/shhhh-ing needed to previously get him to sleep was getting ridiculous (sometimes it would take
2 hours!), so we had to do something about it. I'm totally OK with him "fussing" it out.

AcaAwkward

poru said:

@acaawkward my guy will luckily stay in bed.  for us its so easy to walk upstairs, turn on this star turtle kiss him and go back to bed, that it doesn't seem worth going through long screaming crazy fits to "fix" the problem.  Although when I was 9 months pregnant it sucked cause it was sooo hard to go back to sleep!  We have moved the turtle next to his bed and now he sometimes turns it on himself.  But he is coming through his scared period.  We just stay consistent and supportive and it seems to work out.

DD is still in her crib. She loves it. I am absolutely dreading switching her (no plans to right now). Hoping she'll be like your DS and stay in her big bed!

avidkeo

I'm SS, I did stepped soothing at 3 months. Hardest but best decision we made. LO is 4 months now and she only wakes once during the night for a feed (BF with occasional formula top ups). 

Anecdotally, the ladies I know who did stepped soothing at 3+ months haven't had a 4 month sleep regression. Could be a coincidence but I do think it might have something to do with baby already knowing how to self sooth. 

Frankly I believe that its a cultural thing and I have no regrets about it. DD is happy, healthy and is always so happy to see so no I do not believe that stepped soothing can cause issues for a baby when done appropriately eg: do not leave baby alone until they cry them selves to sleep, you are supposed to go and sooth them! So if you are comfortable with your decision, definitly do it!

ashcole28

I did a good night time routine followed by CIO (comforting them every 3-5 minutes to let them know I'm still here) with both kids. DD has slept through the night since he was 3 months and DD has started sleeping through the night at 3 months she gets up at 5 for a bottle then goes back to sleep so idk if you would consider that a whole night but I do.

macynsnoop

I think any sleep training method is a form of CIO, they all involve some form of crying. You should do what feels right for you. My H & I read parts & pieces of a few books, not enough time to get through an entire book! In the end we made up our own approach based on how LO was responding. He went from waking every hour to sleeping 5-8 hr stretches once we started some training. We didn't jump into it out of the blue, we let him fuss a while before picking him up at night to help him learn to sooth himself. Also, if it makes you feel better call it protesting & not crying. In the end this is a skill everyone needs to master & I am super proud of my LO every time he gets himself back to sleep. I think the sleep thing is one of the first big challenges we face as new parents & each of us will handle it our own way & the best that we can. Good luck!

babybarnes87

Something worth thinking about: 

https://www.becomingmamas.com/your-baby-is-not-a-bad-sleeper-common-sense-thinking-about-infant-sleep/

kimberpoo

I'm lucky that my LO is a great sleeper most nights.

Having said that, there have been a few nights where he was waking constantly. On the nights he just won't say down, I turn his swing on (this is the one we have, just for reference: https://www.toysrus.com/product/index.jsp?productId=13039765&cp=2255957.2273443.2255983.3224660&parentPage=family) but leave the lights and mobile off. I'll turn on either the cricket noise from the swing or the heartbeat from our sleepy turtle machine and then bounce him until he falls asleep in my arms (with a pacifier in), then slowly set him in the swing, buckle him in, and leave my hand on his cheek until he is really out. we leave it on the slowest setting and have a blanket under him to slow it down even more since it will stay on all night. I might push it back and forth for a bit if he starts to wake as the faster motion will get him back to sleep.

He is picky about the bouncing. to actually get this kid to sleep, I have to bounce him a certain way (omg I should take a video and post it). I snuggle him up tight to my chest, pacifier in, my palm resting against his cheek and cradling his head to my chest. then I bounce twice with one foot, twice with the other (both feet on ground, just shifting weight back and forth). omg it's aerobics. and dh wonders why I refuse to go to the gym.....

having said alllll that, only once did we let lo cio, and only then because absolutely nothing would calm him. he wasn't feeling great and was overtired to the point where nothing put him to sleep for more than about 5 seconds. he only cried for maybe 15 mins and I checked on him frequently. he finally fell asleep in the swing. I didn't like it, and don't plan to do it again without a really good reason.

AcaAwkward

LalaMama81 said:

macynsnoop said:

I think any sleep training method is a form of CIO, they all involve some form of crying. You should do what feels right for you. My H & I read parts & pieces of a few books, not enough time to get through an entire book! In the end we made up our own approach based on how LO was responding. He went from waking every hour to sleeping 5-8 hr stretches once we started some training. We didn't jump into it out of the blue, we let him fuss a while before picking him up at night to help him learn to sooth himself. Also, if it makes you feel better call it protesting & not crying. In the end this is a skill everyone needs to master & I am super proud of my LO every time he gets himself back to sleep. I think the sleep thing is one of the first big challenges we face as new parents & each of us will handle it our own way & the best that we can. Good luck!

This is ridiculous. This is like when someone insists spanking isn't hitting. Hitting is hitting. Crying is crying. I'm not saying to CIO or not to CIO, but call it what it is. Saying to call it something else to ease your conscious is just icky, IMO.

Also fussing /=/ crying. 

Yeah, there's a lot in this initial post I don't agree with at all... Not all sleep training is CIO; there are no cry methods, methods that only let the baby fuss, etc. As LaLa said, fussing is NOT the same as crying, and calling crying "protesting" to make yourself feel better doesn't change what it truly is. And I say all this as someone who let my child (after 6 mo of age) CRY.

J&NL

Protesting lol.. Wtf.

Twirple

I have done CIO with DS.   It is/can be a lifesaver. 

I'm trying to avoid the need with Carlene, buy putting her down drowsy but awake as often as possible.  If I can put her down when she just getting tired, but not overly tired, she will self soothe to sleep.  She sucks her thumb, which I am secretly thankful for because she can pop that puppy in her mouth in the middle of the night and go back to sleep.  DS took a pacifier, but he was never able to find it and get it back into his mouth if he spit it out.

Andrewsgal

Actually I think people underestimate the importantance of sleep in the American culture. Sleep is so essential for development but we constantly make excuses why it is totally appropriate for a two year old to still be waking or sneaking into bed with mom and dad nightly.

AcaAwkward

I agree that sleep is so terribly important from a development standpoint, and I do think helping your child learn to be a good sleeper is an important parenting duty. At the same time, I also think we tend to jump the gun on expectations -- what's the first thing most people ask about a new baby? "Is he a good sleeper?" We shouldn't expect an 8 week old to STTN (or even close to it, for some kiddos). At a certain point, one concept ("go to your baby whenever he cries, as many times as he needs it") fades into the other ("sleep is essential and you need to learn how to do it") in my mind.

And yes, I'm aware I've conveniently created this theory to mirror how and when I sleep trained my first. Go me!

hordol

I'm sure some people are trying to get their kids from one waking to zero or two wakings down to one and sure, waking a couple times a night can be normal. But I'm just trying to get down from six wakings to like, three. I would give anything to sleep more than 1.5 hours. :-| sleep training sounds more and more appealing each day.

JessieAlbin

hordol said:

I'm sure some people are trying to get their kids from one waking to zero or two wakings down to one and sure, waking a couple times a night can be normal. But I'm just trying to get down from six wakings to like, three. I would give anything to sleep more than 1.5 hours. :-| sleep training sounds more and more appealing each day.

So very valid.. I'm sorry you're having a rough time, I know there is a big difference in my sleep when Sullivan wakes up once as opposed to two or three times and I hope your kiddo starts giving you longer stretches soon! For the record, I don't think making an attempt to help your baby sleep longer better stretches at night makes you anything but a tired mommy with a tired baby trying to do what's best. Hang in there lady, it has to get better. >:D<

steph1977

hordol said:

I'm sure some people are trying to get their kids from one waking to zero or two wakings down to one and sure, waking a couple times a night can be normal. But I'm just trying to get down from six wakings to like, three. I would give anything to sleep more than 1.5 hours. :-| sleep training sounds more and more appealing each day.

I'm right there with you, mama...hang in there! I'm barely hanging on by a thread.

ksulli

steph1977 said:

hordol said:

I'm sure some people are trying to get their kids from one waking to zero or two wakings down to one and sure, waking a couple times a night can be normal. But I'm just trying to get down from six wakings to like, three. I would give anything to sleep more than 1.5 hours. :-| sleep training sounds more and more appealing each day.

I'm right there with you, mama...hang in there! I'm barely hanging on by a thread.

This was me up to a week ago, but my LO was born 3/31, so one of the oldest. Hang in there. I'm sure I'll be re-joining the 90min of sleep ranks again soon.