Disciplining 4 Year Old

prittipiglet

My husband works a mid shift so every week day, I handle all of the after-work hustle and bustle by myself.  I find it very challenging to discipline my newly 4 year old son at this time with my newly 1 year old son at my feet.  I know how to act and what to say to my 4 year old when I have help from my husband to watch the 1 year old when he is home so I can devote the time needed to my 4 year old, but to be honest, patience wears thin when I have my 1 year old crying, the dog is barking and I'm trying to rush and get a dinner on the table that of course, my 4 year old will also complain about.

How can I better handle my 4 year old's bad behavior when I am trying to do 10 other things, not to mention take care of the 1 year old?

ASmallWonder

Ditto @sterling13  I have a 4 year old and 1 year old and do pickup/dinner and all that by myself each night so I know it's tough but at this age, depending on what he's doing, I don't think a lot of time needs to be devoted to his discipline.  If it's something he knows not to do I crouch down, tell him exactly why he's in trouble and send his butt to time out.  The end.  The one year old spends meal prep time in the high chair with some Cheerios or playing in the plastic bowl cabinet.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

Libby1978

That is the hardest time of day with Ollie too.  He will be 4 on September 2nd.  Sometimes I just have to send him to his room to play for a few minutes.  It's hard to get dinner cooked because at that point we have only been home for a few minutes and I think he's wanting my attention.  Sometimes I give him a job, like watching the dog for me, and that seems to help.

ASmallWonder

Also, without knowing exactly what the issue is, consider that you and he have different priorities the minute you walk in the door and his acting out may be his way of saying he needs attention.  Obviously they can't have it all the time but sometimes it makes a huge difference to take 15 minutes to sit and play or start them with the activity so they don't feel like they need to be underfoot just to spend time with you.

[Deleted User]

DS is four.  He loves having a responsibility whether it is throwing something in the trash, opening the back door for the dog or whatever.  

Give him something to do and praise him for it.  

Can you give him a quick snack and a little tv time while you hustle doing all the things that need done when you walk in the door?  That is my most hectic time and I gave up and let DS have cartoons.  

seahorse102410

I also let my almost 4 year old watch a little tv while I get dinner started.  The way I look at it, he's been interacting with people at daycare all day so he needs some downtime. 

prittipiglet

Of course, different days bring different issues, but one of my biggest ones is that my 1 year old wants to do whatever my 4 year old is doing and my 4 year old does not always want that.  I have worked with him countless times, and no matter what I say, when I turn around, the 4 year old is on top of the 1 year old, pulling his arm, pushing on him, etc.  This is really a tough issue.  I literally turn around and he is doing something else to him.  Then the next moment, he will hug him.  My 4 year old loves to play cars in general and also with my 1 year old, but the second the little one touches the ones he's specifically playing with, he's all over him.

He has a tantrum almost every night about whatever dinner will be served, but is sweet as pie and will even say "I can eat that all up for you!" if it's something that is a no-brainer in the little kid department such as chicken nuggets or something similar.  Forgive me, 4 year old, for trying to feed you healthier foods.

Sure, I can give him a task to do, but seeing as he's 4, it should be short and sweet and something like that won't keep him busy while I am trying to get dinner ready and do everything else.

He is only allowed a small snack before dinner if he eats his dinner the night prior (which has really been few and far between lately seeing as he refuses to try many things at all).

I sometimes put the TV on while I am trying to prepare dinner, but he loves to put on his Power Ranger mask/Iron Man mask, get his toys out and "get the bad guys".  This turns into him jumping all over the couch with excitement and running all over the house, running over the 1 year old, etc.  It gets a little hectic.

prittipiglet

Also, when he's mad, he knows from prior sit-downs that we should talk about things instead of getting angry and hitting, etc.  This has been really down hill  lately.  He is of couse, very easy to talk to and says all of the right responses when you talk to him when he has calmed down, but when he is worked up, he will not listen whatsoever.  He learned to call people "baby" from a kid in his class and won't give that up.  He has started to hit quite a bit and will threaten my husband and I by saying things like "I'm going to hit you, baby!!", etc.  I can't get him out of this bad habit that seems like it started almost overnight.  This is another huge issue that is almost impossible for me to correct when I am home by myself every night with the kids.  He just won't listen.  Yes, I remember he is 4.

[Deleted User]

Um, maybe pick a less aggressive cartoon if your 4 year old is being aggressive with your one year old and the cartoons are hyping him up with excitement?  That seems like an easy place to start.  

prittipiglet

He watches Paw Patrol, Peppa Pig, etc.  He is not even allowed to watch Sponge Bob.

[Deleted User]

What do you do when he hits your one year old?  When he throws a tantrum?  When he threatens to hit/hits your DH?  

What are your current discipline methods? This will give us a baseline as to what you are already doing and what you can try different.

[Deleted User]

prittipiglet said:

He watches Paw Patrol, Peppa Pig, etc.  He is not even allowed to watch Sponge Bob.

So the Iron Man and Power Ranger stuff?  You see the connection, you pointed it out.  If he can't play nicely with them, they need to go.

Can I ask where he sees "go out and get the bad guys" if he isn't exposed to more aggressive, big kid cartoons?  He has to be getting it from somewhere?  

prittipiglet

I go down to his level, I do not yell, and try to talk to him about what is going on in that moment. I ask him how he is feeling and why he may feel that way. The response he generally gives is "because" and the like. Yet, when I talk to him when he's doing with his "issue", he talks things out with me and tells me why he felt a certain way. Sometimes he tries to be in control and if I ask him to come to me, he refuses and then will tell me to go where he is instead. I do not. I tell him when he is ready to speak, I will be waiting for him. Then he can't decide what he wants to do; have a fit or talk to me, because when I walk away, he says he wants to talk, but when I stay, he refuses to speak.

[Deleted User]

Four year olds are logical enough to talk it out.  You should aim for more natural consequences.  I would suggest looking into a few positive discpline books

prittipiglet

Yea, he learned the "bad guy" crap from school when he was 2.  I was really mad about it when he learned it from the other boys in his class.  Once he knew about it, I couldn't fight it.  Even though he owns a Power Ranger mask and Iron Man mask, does not mean I bought them for him.  He was given them as gifts at separate times from separate people and before I knew what he was getting, I couldn't take it away once he already had it. 

zeptattoo

Just my two cents here:

We use a sticker chart and a scale for rewards/punishments.  We targeted specific behaviors and if he did well that day, he got a sticker for that specific thing.  If he didn't do well, no sticker.  We also did this with his school so he was accountable for behavior there too.

At the end of the week he could add up the stickers and there was a hierarchy of rewards/punishments based on how many stickers he got that week.  The rewards were dinner out, a new book, or a trip to the pool/library.  the punishments were no dessert or taking away his blanket for the week (which would have been would have been horrible for him and luckily we never had to use that one).

There were good weeks and bad weeks, but overall this worked well for us.  It is a system you can adapt for your specific situation.  One key to this was that HE had to put the sticker on the chart and if he didn't get one, he had to identify why.  Not wanting to do the chart= forfeiting the stickers that day.

rin89

You can try and teach him to talk instead of hit, but he's four. His little brain isn't developed enough to truly understand everything. When he answers with "because" he genuinely doesn't have an answer. 

It sounds like you might be inadvertently reinforcing some of his behaviors. When you try and talk it out with him while he's in the middle of a fit you're giving him 100% of your attention. In my experience (which is admittedly in a childcare setting not as a parent), the best way to handle thing like that is to give a very brief explanation of why he's in a time out and then just walk away. EG- "You are going in a time out for 5 min because you hit your brother. We don't hit when we get made." 

ASmallWonder

I don't think "get the bad guys" and super hero stuff and the resulting mimicking is abnormal for a 4 year old at all.  And they aren't necessarily big kid shows either.  Super Hero Squad is absolutely for that age group  But I do agree that if he isn't listening when told to calm down, a consequence could be taking it away.  It's also a matter of personal preference.  Running, kicking and being generally rambunctious is ok for us as long as it's not hurting someone or being destructive. At four he can be told "Hey you can run and have fun fighting your bad guys but if you can't pay attention to where your brother is, that ends so it's up to you how if you get to play or not."

prittipiglet

rin89 said:

It sounds like you might be inadvertently reinforcing some of his behaviors. When you try and talk it out with him while he's in the middle of a fit you're giving him 100% of your attention. In my experience (which is admittedly in a childcare setting not as a parent), the best way to handle thing like that is to give a very brief explanation of why he's in a time out and then just walk away. EG- "You are going in a time out for 5 min because you hit your brother. We don't hit when we get made." 

I do this as well, and then he gets mad that I am walking away.  I repeat what I already said to him and attempt to walk away again, and the cycle keeps going round...

prittipiglet

Honestly, what you all are saying is all things we do with him already.  He most definitely gets things taken away.  Then his next question to me (after he calms down) is: Can I try again tomorrow?  And then I think since he already had the item taken away, he thinks he can continue with the behavior for the rest of the day since he's trying again "the next day".

prittipiglet

CTGirl30 said:

Well, hitting in our house = automatic time out, every time. I will drop everything I am doing to institute one swiftly.  Hitting has greatly reduced for us since DD has seen that I mean business.  Time outs equal a removal from everyone else to her time out spot (where we can still each other, but is out of the "action zone" so to speak.

 

When he's going too far, he gets sent to his room.  But of course, he does not stay in there and gets in trouble for banging on the door, etc.  Then by this time, everyone is yelling.

prittipiglet

CTGirl30 said:

I also don't feel like a small snack should be dependant on the night before's dinner consumption. Like, kids are tired & hangry at this time of day. You can't give him like 2-3 crackers and a piece of cheese to tide him over until dinner time if he didn't eat all his dinner the night before? You might head yourself off some of the acting out if he gets a chance to sit down and eat something small - just a thought. Does it seem to make a difference on nights he does get a little snack once you get home?

Or you can give one in the car on the ride home so he doesn't get home hungry & crabby....

I can promise you he isn't hungry.  I pick him up from day care and he's just finished having a snack there.  I do not like to give him snacks when we get home as I already have a hard enough time getting him to eat what he is served.  The more hungry he is for dinner, the better chance I have of getting him to at least try whatever it is I am serving.

ASmallWonder

How do you answer the question of "Can I try again tomorrow?"  It does sound like he's like "this day is already fucked so whatever."  I'd tell him we only talk about today and that he needs to be trying starting right this minute.  Don't commit to anything because he's relying on that.  Just tell him you aren't making him any promises for anything and that you'll let him know how he's doing but that he needs to begin trying right away.

ShakeyJakey

prittipiglet said:

rin89 said:

It sounds like you might be inadvertently reinforcing some of his behaviors. When you try and talk it out with him while he's in the middle of a fit you're giving him 100% of your attention. In my experience (which is admittedly in a childcare setting not as a parent), the best way to handle thing like that is to give a very brief explanation of why he's in a time out and then just walk away. EG- "You are going in a time out for 5 min because you hit your brother. We don't hit when we get made." 

I do this as well, and then he gets mad that I am walking away.  I repeat what I already said to him and attempt to walk away again, and the cycle keeps going round...


The cycle keeps going because you let it by engaging him. Put him in time out, tell him what he did, tell him how long he's there for and walk way. When he tries to get up, put him back silently. Repeat. Repeat. repeat. It's really hard. Really hard. But they learn they can't get a reaction out of you and you stay calm. This is something that I've had SO try recently and it's made a huge difference. Our son is only two but likes to scream when you put him in time out. SO reacts and LO screams louder. But when he ignores, LO gives up. It does take time and practice. But I really do think that's a key part of making time out work. My son is still very implosive so our first few time outs were spent in his high chair on the floor so I could contain him (confession? It was only once or twice until I tried the stairs, and he stayed there). But now he rarely tries to get up.

prittipiglet

While I can appreciate what is being said about time outs, etc., when I am home alone with the kids, I do not have the luxury of time to put him back in his room 20 times.  Dinner is on the stove, the 1 year old is now following me the up the stairs...

ASmallWonder

prittipiglet said:

While I can appreciate what is being said about time outs, etc., when I am home alone with the kids, I do not have the luxury of time to put him back in his room 20 times.  Dinner is on the stove, the 1 year old is now following me the up the stairs...

Sorry but I'm in your exact shoes and I think you're just refusing to change how you do things.  Put the 1 year old in a child proofed room or high chair.  Don't have either or those?  Change that.  Make a safe spot.  Hell, bring the baby up first, put him in HIS room and then deal with the 4 year old.  Plan easier meals until you feel the routine has gotten easier so that you don't have to worry about one eye on the stove.  I'm not saying it's easy but your attitude of "I can't do what you guys are suggesting" isn't true.  It's just "The way I choose to do things doesn't allow me to do what you guys are suggesting."

outnumbered

fredalina said:

You've gotten good info so far but one thing I recommend is talking it over with him during a quiet time when everyone is calm and happy. Begin with "I have a problem and I need your help." State the problem from your perspective. "When I get home, I need to make dinner. Sometimes it's hard for me to do that because you and DS2 need my help. I wonder if we can work together to find ways that I can make dinner without needing to stop to supervise you two." Brainstorm ideas. You could start with "I can give you a quick snack and a sheet to color while I cook and I can let DS2 play with toys." Let him think of ideas. Write then ALL down before you argue against anything. Then together talk about each idea and veto if needed.

I agree with this.  When my children (even the 9 year old) are in the midst of an emotional storm/tantrum/power struggle I do not discuss it with them.  They cannot hear me and do not have the emotional intelligence to discern their feelings in the moment.  Often I talk to them at night. On a bad day I lay in bed with them at bedtime and they tell me about their feelings.  Sometimes it is easier to talk when the storm has passed and they are feeling secure.  My 8 year old really opens up in the dark quiet bedroom.

angelashly

We do sticker charts too. Also she can start to earn things back immediately after her consequence is over. No starting over tomorrow.

We also do tasks and tv.

It sounds like you don't actually want our advice though so I'll offer you luck

[Deleted User]

ASmallWonder said:

I don't think "get the bad guys" and super hero stuff and the resulting mimicking is abnormal for a 4 year old at all.  And they aren't necessarily big kid shows either.  Super Hero Squad is absolutely for that age group  But I do agree that if he isn't listening when told to calm down, a consequence could be taking it away.  It's also a matter of personal preference.  Running, kicking and being generally rambunctious is ok for us as long as it's not hurting someone or being destructive. At four he can be told "Hey you can run and have fun fighting your bad guys but if you can't pay attention to where your brother is, that ends so it's up to you how if you get to play or not."

I can only go off what she posted.  He dones the masks and behaves rambunctiously.  

DS watched the old school Transformers and GI Joe.  If it started to hype him up (Power Rangers does, for example), it is no longer a choice of viewing options.  

I honestly can't tell if OP just has unrealistic expectations of how 4 year olds behave or if he truly isn't listening and is acting out.

[Deleted User]

Also, feed the kid when he comes home.  Today's meal shouldn't be dependent on the night before.  That's just asinine.

prittipiglet

At the specific time (after just getting home/dinner/baths/dog/straightening up/etc) he is acting out, no, I do not have the time to right his wrongs.  And I'm sure I'm not the only person in this situation.

If I put DS 2 somewhere confined so I can tend to DS 1, he screams his face off and tries to get out.  Then I'm listening to him be upset when he doens't need to be so I can go in circles with DS 1. 

I have trouble with DS 1 eating dinner to begin with, so I do not think a snack when we get home and dinner will be served within the half hour is necessary.

I am not making 5 course meals during the week.  Most of the food we eat during the week has been prepared the Sunday prior.  Even getting everything out of the fridge and onto plates can be disastrous while he's having a fit because he doesn't want to eat what I am serving and DS 2 is crying and pulling on my clothing for me to pick him up. 

My house is filled with toys, but it seems when I need them to go do something on their own, that when they always want nothing to do with it.  I know they do not understand they cannot have me 24-7.

Please stop saying I am not open to suggestions.  That's what I asked for, suggestions.  Most of what I'm getting in feedback is for me to put him in timeout, but as my initial post read, I do not have the ability to do this 100x at this particular time of the day and by myself while DS 2 cries for attention as well.

I seriously cannot be the only person in this situation.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

angelashly

As noted many times you are not the only person and time out is not the only suggestion being thrown out. I only have 1 kid and it's tough so I absolutely get your frustration, but if you are unwilling to change then there isn't much else to say. I will try again though

I think the food thing is to much of a control thing. While I don't like to do 2 dinner options I also know that my dd won't eat if I tell her she has to eat so she gets Mac and cheese or hot dogs or chicken nuggets. It keeps me sane and keeps her fed. She likes to help cook and clean so we do that. Can you block off rooms? Again put the 1 year old in the high chair with a snack or a toy.

outnumbered

prittipiglet said:

At the specific time (after just getting home/dinner/baths/dog/straightening up/etc) he is acting out, no, I do not have the time to right his wrongs.  And I'm sure I'm not the only person in this situation.

If I put DS 2 somewhere confined so I can tend to DS 1, he screams his face off and tries to get out.  Then I'm listening to him be upset when he doens't need to be so I can go in circles with DS 1. 

I have trouble with DS 1 eating dinner to begin with, so I do not think a snack when we get home and dinner will be served within the half hour is necessary.

I am not making 5 course meals during the week.  Most of the food we eat during the week has been prepared the Sunday prior.  Even getting everything out of the fridge and onto plates can be disastrous while he's having a fit because he doesn't want to eat what I am serving and DS 2 is crying and pulling on my clothing for me to pick him up. 

My house is filled with toys, but it seems when I need them to go do something on their own, that when they always want nothing to do with it.  I know they do not understand they cannot have me 24-7.

Please stop saying I am not open to suggestions.  That's what I asked for, suggestions.  Most of what I'm getting in feedback is for me to put him in timeout, but as my initial post read, I do not have the ability to do this 100x at this particular time of the day and by myself while DS 2 cries for attention as well.

I seriously cannot be the only person in this situation.

Of course you are not the only person facing this.  Almost every child has trouble managing their behavior  in the early evening.  He needs your help and you do not want to take the time to help him.

Basically your son is tired and hungry when he gets home.  You have had a long day at your job and he has has a long day at his job (daycare).  He needs a few moments to recharge and get some attention.  Give him a snack and sit with him while he eats it.  Talk about his day.  When his snack is over give him a task or a craft.  Sure dinner maybe a little later and he might eat less, but he and you will be happier.   

angelashly

I also want to know time home vs bedtime.

We do a later bedtime a and I know that doesn't work for a lot of people but it helps the nights not be so rushed so I can sit with her for a few minutes and show her attention when we get home

[Deleted User]

Simply put, you are not picking your battles wisely and thus bringing a lot of this on needlessly.  

Let him have a snack.  He is hungry.  Let go of your control issues and feed the kid.  

Is dinner really your hill to die?  Find healthy options that work and offer them.  It isn't the end of the world if he eats kid food- you can pick health(ish) options for kid food. 

Address the issue when it happens.  That isn't a luxury; that's effective discipline.  Parenting your child effectively isn't a luxury.  Starting dinner the second you walk in the door is a luxury.  You need to re-evaluate your priorities here.  

I really don't know what else to say that hasn't been said, especially when aren't willing to listen and absorb.  We are offering this valuable advice because we have all been there or are there right now.  

 

dashofreality

Really good suggestions. Yes I have been there I have a 4 and 2yo husband is deployed. My 2yo is giving me hell right now, but it is my priority to address it. I generally see that you have cycles of bad behavior and when you are in one you have to really be on your kid. So, the moment that he starts to step out of line right now I am addressing it. Warning if it doesn't involve hurting someone, immediate time out if it does. If I am there and can catch him before he hits or throws, I will physically stop him, usually a bear hug, and empathize - I see you angry about 'x' but we can't throw would you like a hug or play with this toy? This usually calms him down. If I don't catch him then he goes to timeout, and I usually have to put him back in a few times.  

First, it seems like you need to pick a closer timeout spot. No reason it needs to be his room, we pick a chair or a spot wherever we are and turn him away from the action and tell him to sit. It can be in the kitchen if you want. 2. I think that if you took a week and really focused on addressing his behavior and following through you would start to see a difference. Plan a week of sandwiches, hummus, and crockpot which will help you calmly tackle this. 3. Give him options - if you don't want to share with your brother you can take your cars to your room until dinner. 4. I'm a working mom with 2 kids, it is overwhelming at times, but I would take 10-15 minutes everyday that is each child's 'special' time. Call it Kids name time and you play whatever they want without any distractions.

I understand what it is like with a difficult child, my almost 4 yo is easy, my 2 yo is not. I can only hope that being consistent and showing some empathy will pay off.

[Deleted User]

Look- we are being blunt and honest because it is frustrating when people ask advice and then refuse to listen or at least accept that perhaps it's worth a try since what they are doing obviously isn't working.  

Half the art of parenting is realizing something doesn't work and making an adjustment.  

RondackHiker

There have been a lot of great suggestions in here about both discipline and feeding and your kids and managing time and meal prep.

I'm alone a lot with my two (five months and four years). Sometime dinner is delayed for discipline. Sometimes baby has to scream while I deal with something. Sometimes I wear baby and deal with DS.

If you can't take the steps to discipline appropriately, you're not going to fix the problem.

[Deleted User]

Have we mentioned give your child a snack?  At least try it and see how much of your issues are resolved.