E-cigs in the office

schnitz9

So there are a few guys who smoke e-gigs and e-hookahs in the office.  I've been goggling 2nd hand smoke effects and they really aren't that definitive on good or bad.  Anyone have any experience with this?  I did say something to my manager today and he said he would talk to the guys about it.  It just makes super uncomfortable. I hate sounding like the super crazy lady, but gotta protect the little nugget while it cooks right.

animalcrckr

I do not know much about them but they cannot be good for anyone.  Are they smoking them inside?  I think they should fall under the same category as conventional cigarettes and anyone who chooses to smoke them should use them in the designated smoking area.  

 

I do not think you are crazy at all for asking your manager to address the situation.

schnitz9

They smoke them inside.  One of the guys sits right next to me and the other sits in front of the kitchen....ugh its so gross!!

Cookie0875

I would agree with @animalcrckr, they should really be smoked outside as normal cigs are.  I know around here, I've seen a few people smoking them in bars/restaurants, but not many, thankfully.  And thankfully no one in my office smokes them.  DH still smokes, outside and never around me of course, but my MIL is going to get him one of those vapor things for his birthday to see if that can help him quit.  I don't think they're as bad as cigs, but I worry that it's still not good and he'll just have a new habit.    Although, maybe not as smelly...

michelle142

E-Cigs are just water vapor, mostly, no? Most are flavored I think that's where the smell comes from.

Maybe I'm wrong.

Either way, I agree that they shouldn't be smoked in the office. It's unprofessional.

schnitz9

What really concerns me is that the vapor includes tons of chemicals and nicotine.  I'm thinking its not something I should be breathing in during pregnancy.  Read this and it freaked me out.  Still waiting for my Dr. to call me back. Want to find out from him too.

https://no-smoke.org/pdf/ecigarette-secondhand-aerosol.pdf

animalcrckr

Trin42 said:

Agree with Michelle. It's mostly water vapor. DH has one. I'm not at all concerned about him using it around us. WAY better than a real cigarette. You can't even smell anything from a an e-cig.

While it's mostly water vapor, it looks like they also emit acetaldehyde, formaldehyde and toluene as well as some heavy metals (in both first and second hand vapor).  While the levels are lower than conventional cigarettes, the state of CA is proposing to label then as carcinogenic in nature. 

michelle142

I know that certain cities and counties where I live, WI, have recently banned the use of e-cig type products in places that also ban tobacco use.

jennypolkadots

You have the right to be safe at your job. Even if I weren't pregnant I would not be cool with people smoking (electronically or otherwise) in the office. I mean, seriously?

Tell them about all the nasty chemicals that are still in the water vapor. Yeah, they are small but still there and you are growing a fetus! You could also claim that the smell is giving you really bad nausea and headaches  

Would it be possible to get an air purifier for your office and close the door? This is another option. Or even ask the guys who want to smoke to help you buy one! 

schnitz9

animalcrckr said:

Trin42 said:

Agree with Michelle. It's mostly water vapor. DH has one. I'm not at all concerned about him using it around us. WAY better than a real cigarette. You can't even smell anything from a an e-cig.

While it's mostly water vapor, it looks like they also emit acetaldehyde, formaldehyde and toluene as well as some heavy metals (in both first and second hand vapor).  While the levels are lower than conventional cigarettes, the state of CA is proposing to label then as carcinogenic in nature. 

Thanks! Glad I'm not the only one that thinks there's no way these things are completely safe.  Yes are they safer than regulars cigs.  But the key word is safer not totally safe.  I'm just pissed because these guys know I'm pregnant and it seems as if they really don't care.  When I'm outside and one of my co-workers is smoking a traditional cig they always make sure to stay away from me out of respect.  I think its all in the advertising.  All these e-cig companies are advertising them as a safe.  Need we forget 50 years ago the tobacco industry advertised cigarettes as totally safe and in some cases doctor recommended.  What's gonna happen in 15-20 years. 

EdenAurora

Check your employee handbook or check with HR. I know my company specifically includes e-cigarettes in the smoke-free environment policy. Most companies have updated their policies but not everyone is aware, including management.

WanderingA

Yay @Schnitz9 has an avatar!!!

As far as e-cigs/vaporizers/hookahs....yuck.  I wouldn't even care if there was no risk of second hand smoke, the smell is still nasty and they should have no tolerance for that in a professional setting. 

Nlavender13

Have you talked to them about it at all? They might be more considerate if they know it bothered you so much. Most people dont even think about the vapor as being harmful so it is very possible the thought of it being harmful to your baby has not crossed their minds. I personally would not have even given it a second thought when I used to use a vapor cig. Not because I did not care but because the vapor your exhaling disappears so fast and does not smell. So unless you were cuddled up with me when I was using it you could not even tell I was. So just saying maybe you could educate them on the harmful effects it could have on you/baby and ask that they stop using it near you. Good Luck!

HailsMom

You would be surprised by what all the ecigs have i. Them. I wouldn't be near them anymore than I would be near someone smoking a regular cig. I work in a lab for a pain management clinic, and as we develop new tests we have to do some baseline testing on samples we know are clean, so everyone in the lab usually donates pee. One time one of the samples popped up positive with nicotine and a bunch of other things, and we finally traced it to a girl that had started using an ecig. Even though they are marketed as nicotine free, we proved that the one she was using wasn't. I don't remember what else came up positive,but it was enough for her to throw the ecig out that day.

Angeldcf

My hospital/healthcare system has specifically banned them on campus. 

Our city has also "banned" them in that they're treated as the same as regular cigarettes- our restaurants are smoke free (bars, 51% sales from alcohol are excluded). 

Devonc625

It is water vapor that comes out now actual smoke....otherwise they wouldn't be able to use them inside.....look it up yourself...

HailsMom

Devonc625 said:

It is water vapor that comes out now actual smoke....otherwise they wouldn't be able to use them inside.....look it up yourself...

This is a lie the companies tell you in order to sell more. Just like tobacco companies used to tell people that cigarets aren't harmful. There are all kinds of chemicals in them, including nicotine.

acpruchnik

I used one for a year and DH still uses his. I asked my sons pediatrician about it before we even bought them and she said we could use them with him sitting in our laps if we wanted to, we didn't/don't but it was nice to know. That's one of the perks with them - no one is exposed to the ickies so no one has to worry about being affected by them. Some of the oils let off an odor I'm personally not fond of (DH has a vanilla one that makes me gag cos it smells like pure sugar) but that's the worst I've found. They're also great for asthmatics that are trying to kick the habit since they don't dry your lungs out.

The oil is based with Nicotine and Glycerin but they don't contain the pesticides regular cigarettes do. My doctor had actually recommended mine to me once I was diagnosed with Valley Fever and had already been a smoker for the better part of 10 years. Anything you smoke is going to have its risks, but rest assured that these won't hurt you or your LO unless you're ingesting them directly

Devonc625

I never said it wasn't harmful to the person using it, but it isn't harmful to the people around the person using it...ask your doctor they will tell you the same thing.

Devonc625

And e cigs are not all marketed as nicotine free by the way

alyssamskeens

Not sure about the effects of the vapor or whatever... But it's extremely unprofessional and looks downright douchebag-y.

mamabumkin

I was a smoker for 14 years. I had only been smoking for about 2 years when I got pregnant with my daughter at 18, and I managed to quit for the most part (I did have a few cigarettes over the course of 9 months, but wasn't regularly smoking.) When I got pregnant 18 months later with my son I had already gone back to smoking and this time, with the stress of all that was happening in my life and a toddler, I couldn't quit. I cut back some, but I couldn't quit.  I quit a couple of times in the last 8 years for a few months at a time, only to go back. Tried gums, patches, pills, nothing worked for me for long term.  Until someone I worked with gave me a Blu to try. I wasn't that crazy about how it tasted, but I did like the whole idea.  I quit smoking almost 4 years ago by using e-cigs.  

Over the last 4 years I ended up starting a business out of what became quite the hobby. I only met the love of my life because he and I had both quit smoking and were using e-cigs--we met through a mutual group of friends online. I mix e-liquid, that is my business. My husband makes the devices (though not those little ones that look like cigarettes, we use much larger specialty devices.) 

Because I mix my own liquid, I know exactly what is in it. Propylene Glycol--generally recognized as safe for human use--is found in asthma inhalers, air ventilation systems (with fragrances--similar to the flavoring molecules we use in our e-cigs,) vaccinations, and in many, many household every day items. It can also be found in fast food and processed food. Vegetable Glycerin is pretty much found in everything as well, it is a food safe product and used in cake frosting! It is also the common liquid used for theatrical fog machines--and there has never been found any problems with workers exposed to fog on a regular basis(and that fog juice often has far more chemicals in it than e-liquid does.) The only other ingredients found in e-liquid are flavorings --both natural and artificial food flavorings approved for human use--there is no science to say inhaling these molecules on a regular basis will cause any types of side effects. Things that have been found to be bad, like diacetyl (the artificial butter flavor that caused popcorn worker's lung) are not used in e-liquids produced here in the states, or in the UK. 

Nicotine is an optional addition. I don't vape nicotine any longer. I don't hardly vape anymore, though every now and then I will. When my husband and I decided we were not going to prevent pregnancy from happening, I began to cut back my nicotine intake. By the time we got our BFP I was down to nearly no nicotine. It only too me two weeks to cut back completely...and now I am nicotine free.  

From the research that has been happening over the past three years on both first hand and second hand vapor, there is little need to worry about second hand vapor.  This short handout (and if you'd like to read the longer study--or visit the site) you can see just a sample of the tests that have been being done. There are a bunch of studies being done. There has been a lot of hype about a few studies supposedly showing e-cigs were just as harmful as regular cigs, but in reading those studies their methods for data gathering, and the conclusions that they drew were far fetched and not even remotely accurate. For some reason these are the only studies that the news media decides to talk about, even though there are 50 studies that contradict those findings. Crap science is when a result can't be recreated by different people with the same outcome. 

What is exhaled is mostly either PG or VG with some flavor molecules. Nicotine is not found in the second hand vapor, and in the few tests that have shown some nicotine, it was only very small trace amounts, far less than you'd get from eating eggplants, potatoes, or tomatoes -- any nightshade family plant has small amounts of nicotine.  The idea that it is "water vapor" is a misnomer-- it is actually similar to fog produced by theatrical fog machines, it is not water vapor, but VG and PG vapor. 

But, as a fellow pregnant woman who already suffers with an extremely sensitive sense of smell, some of those flavors -- especially the prefilled cig-a-like and e-hookah styles stink to high heaven!  As a vaper myself I have always been considerate of other...but just like there are a-hole smokers, a-hole non-smokers, there are also a-hole vapers. 

I personally don't find employees vaping while on the job to the least bit professional--unless you're working in a vape shop, that is the only place it's acceptable. I also don't like people blowing clouds in restaurants, shopping centers, or places like that, it's just rude and gives people more reason to complain about vaping. 

For those who think they contain formaldehyde and heavy metals and other contaminates, the studies that are being sited for those things (even that no-smoke.org write up) are studies done on old Chinese e-cigs from back in 2009.  These were very questionable products that came from China, and those studies were also acknowledged to have possibly had outside contaminates which could have compromised the study. However, this seems to be the study the FDA continuously falls back on.  Personally I wouldn't use the disposables, the ones that come prefilled (e-hookahs especially --usually labeled as no nicotine) as most are produced still in China, and I don't trust them.  I much prefer to see people purchase refillable devices as they come in sizes from cigarette and cigar sized and even flashlight and box styles. If you refill your own you know what you are putting in it, for the most part. Those prefilled things could have who knows what kind of crap in them and are often mislabeled and do contain nicotine.  

When I mix non-nicotine juice those bottles and all items used to mix that bottle does not come in contact with any nicotine products. They are kept fully separate because cross contamination can happen. 

Of course not much of this is going to matter over the next couple of years because the FDA is giving the e-cig industry over to Big Tobacco and they will turn all the prefilled e-cigs into products just as addicting and just as bad as regular cigs. I'll end up mixing my own when that happens and my business with evolve to no longer carry mixed e-liquids.