Follow-up to previous & question

twinkl5379

Thanks for all the info. re: the schools for my nieces. I'm starting a new thread b/c I have a new, though related, question.

My 12 y/o niece now says that she wants to stay there rather than living with H and I. I think it's b/c of her friends and also her incarcerated mom told her she'd be getting out in about a month, which I seriously doubt will happen (as do most others aware of the situation).

So I think this info from her mom is a huge influence, unfortunately. I'm going to give it some time to see if she changes her mind on her own; otherwise, my brother is considering sending them anyway. He doesn't think a 12 y/o is qualified to make this decision. My ? is do you think it's right to move them here despite the 12 y/o's objections?

I know I haven't provided all the back story, but their mom is in jail, charged w/multiple felonies. There's a long story behind this, but it's been a while in the making. I think she'll be there for a while (based on evidence, not just my opinion). It's terribly sad and overwhelming for my family. This woman was an RN, has 4 beautiful/wonderful kids and has been married to my brother for 12 years (though their divorce should be final any day now, and as I stated previously, my brother now has full legal custody). I may delete this post after a while b/c her court dates and such are still pending.

I did call the school, and said I would need legal docs, so maybe the POA is enough.

FinallyHappy84

I think in the previous post you stated that the quality of life would be much with you and your brother was seriously thinking about relocating to around where you live so with that in mind...
I think that if it's in the child's overall best interest, especially long term, and your brother is going to move anyways then yes she should go ahead and be moved however it's really important that your brother sit his daughter down and discuss why this is the best decision for her. She is probably going to be upset, especially if BM is telling her one thing and it's not totally accurate and the fact that she is moving cross country from what she's known - visiting is one thing but moving is a whole different ball game and it could be causing a lot of apprehension.
On a different note - does BM get court ordered visitation with her children when she gets done? If so then this is going to drastically.change the whole.scenario for everyone. Also, are the children going to counseling or therapy of some sort? I know you can't say too much but depending on what they went through It might not be a bad idea especially for the 12 year old since she could comprehend more of the situation and could make the moving transition easier.

Wahoo

Honestly, I think it depends what your brother's intentions are.  If he is "considering" moving to your state, and your niece doesn't want to move...then I wouldn't move her.  

You can say DN (dear niece) doesn't want to leave her friends, is being brainwashed by her mom, but the truth is, moving to a new location is HARD (even for adults, and even for kids when they have a parent to support them).  Leaving the only parent you have left (your dad) is HARD.  And to totally uproot your niece for a year, when her life probably already has the upheaval of her parents divorcing, her mom in jail.....and for your brother to decide he really wants to stay where he is (or is not permitted to take the children out of state), or for him to decide he really wants to live in XX city (a different city from yours, or even your city but another school district) would not be helping your nieces (either one) at all.  

One year in a better school system is not going to change your niece's life.  

If I were advising my own brother, I would suggest he save the money he would spend on trips to and from your home (for the kids, for him) and spend it on after-school care (or a college student who can drive to after school activities).  Let him take his time to make a decision and keep the family together.  And figure out legally what he can and cannot do.

FWIW, DH was considering moving for a new job in a different state / city.  We were thinking of all of the possibilities, including DH living apart and commuting (because the schools are not good where the job was), the whole family moving....all of the choices would involve a huge change for the kids.  Our decisions were never based on what the kids WANTED (because none of the choices were 100% what the kids wanted), but what we thought was the best long-term goal for the family.   

ambrvan

My father is serving a long term (20yr) prison sentence, so take this for what you will. 

Your brother must make the final decision based on what he believes is best for his children. I know that this is not an easy time for him, and I know that this is not an easy time for his children. It is wonderful that you have opened up your home as an offer, but I would not encourage him to be sending them off ahead of him. If he has a few loose ends to tie up (and I mean, like a couple weeks to stay behind), then I see no reason they can't move ahead. But to move the children without them knowing when or if their father is coming would be detrimental to them.

They feel or will feel abandoned by their mother, and they don't need to feel abandoned by their father also. What are is reasons for thinking they will be better with you? He is right that a 12yo is not qualified to make this kind of decision, but what is he basing this on? I am in no way saying he should allow them to decide to go or not, but he should absolutely listen to what they want and why they want it. Otherwise, he could destroy his relationship with them.

I was 10 when everything happened with my father, 12 when he went to prison after trial. Even when my mother ceased contact with him, she always allowed my brother and I to determine our own level of contact with him. We were allowed to decide whether or not we wanted him in our lives. It caused her a lot of pain that I clung to my father despite the horrible thing he did, and I was so viciously hateful to her. But it was easy to be angry with her. It was so hard to be mad at someone I missed so much, someone that my childish mind did not see as "choosing" to leave me. It took me 8 years to finally admit in therapy that I was mad at him and hold him responsible, and another two years before I talked to him about it. And I am just now, at 25, rebuilding my relationship with my mother.

I have also known many other children of other inmates - my age, younger, older. Some of them were forced to remain in contact with their incarcerated parent, and they were very angry people. Some were forced to stop contacting or encouraged to forget about their incarcerated parent, and most of them ended up in trouble themselves. A very, very few have had continued support and involvement by their remaining parent and been allowed to decide whether or not allow their incarcerated parent into their life, but those few have led fairly normal lives. This is exactly why, even when we did not push contact with her, we never forbid SD to contact her mother, despite jail time or anything else. We supervised all contact and sometimes limited the medium, but if SD wanted to reach out, we always allowed it. This is not a supported finding, just a pattern I have observed among other visitors and inmates over time.

Also, if your nieces do come to live with you, I hope you expect it to be difficult, to put it mildly. That is not to be rude or ugly. I'm saying that because I wouldn't expect them to be happy about their father sending them away after they have just "lost" their mother. Losing a loved one to incarceration puts those left behind through all the phases of grief, which includes anger. It is a difficult situation that I wish on no one. My heart goes out to these girls, and I wish all of you the best.

twinkl5379

Thanks for the input, ambrvan. I'm sorry to hear about your situation too. Do you have any general advice for helping support the kids through this? I showed the 8 yo some Sesame Street videos I found about incarcerated parents. And I bought Also bought the 12 y/o a book about a similar situation, but it seems like she doesn't really open up about it, though she did once early on. I can see the reasons why they should stay if they don't want to leave. They are lucky to have my mom and dad in their lives.

ambrvan

Unfortunately, I don't think there is much you can do. Be supportive of whatever they wish to do, encourage them to explore their feelings more deeply without pushing, abd be completely honest (age appropriately) whenever they ask a question.

My mother thought she could shelter me from the worst of a lot of it by not telling me things. She did what she thought was best, but it was a big mistake. Never talk bad about their mom. Listen when they are angry, be supportive when they miss her.

And encourage your brother to be the best example of a single dad he can be. He is the one person they need more than anyone. And the 12yo is at such a pivotal moment in her life right now. He is going to literally have to be Mr. Mom.

I had lots osupport from my grandparents, but my mom would have meant more. She worked so much (necessarily), but I really wish she would have just been around. And been open with her own feelings. And I wish she would have gotten me into serious counseling earlier.