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May 2013 Moms
UO time!
This discussion has been closed.
Re: UO time!
Suicide: @linegirl313, your comments brought tears to my eyes. And @Lolalipsy, well said. And I'm sorry about your BIL. Suicide is the complete opposite of selfish. Selfish means you want to do things "for yourself." Deeply depressed people have no sense of self. They hate themselves so much, and feel so worthless that they feel the need to rid the world of themselves. So yea, the suicide is selfish comment disgusts me.
Homework: I get both arguments. As a middle school teacher, I am not a lover of homework. Many times they don't put much effort in anyway. But kids need to learn that in most jobs you can't just walk out the door and leave work there. In many professions you are writing reports at home, or balancing budgets, or making calls. It's a good lesson for kids that work doesn't end at 5:00. And it does allow for more higher-order thinking skills in the classroom. The big trend right now is "flipped classroom" where students actually start the lesson for homework and come in with the knowledge so the teacher can do more dynamic activities in class.
Stripping:
Pole dancing classes don't really bother me. I would totally take one and even dance for MH if that was something he was into. But I do take issue with the whole stripping/porn industry. I do agree most women don't "really" want to do it. And the accessibility of porn is killing the expectations and views of women today. I mean, 12 year olds can and are accessing porn on the internet. If that's their first reference for female sexuality what is that teaching them? And how is normal, girl next door Suzie ever going to live up to that expectation? That makes me very sad.
However, based on what I know about mental illness, I know the person who kills themselves feels like they are trapped and its the only way to escape. They feel that they're worthless and that their friends and family would be better off if they were gone. If you imagine taking the steps to actually kill yourself, you can alomost feel what an incredibly dark place that must be.
So my perspective is that suicide is not selfish but I can see why a grieving loved one could feel that way.
I guess on that note I have another UO. I don't like all the "Genie, you're free" memes going around. I get it and at first I thought it was sweet but now I feel like its promoting that suicide is a solution, you're free, you're no longer going through your struggles. I'm probably reading into it too much. Hopefully most people don't see it that way.
I also think we are weighing too much on testing. When we were in school we had one test at the end of the year. This last year alone my son took no less than six district assessments each semester. His homework directly correlated with the assessments and principles they hoped they would achieve in order for them to score well and the district to be acknowledged. My son tests well so maybe my perspective is skewed. It just all seems redundant for him and not challenging at all.
Hmmm - not sure what happened there but to @spankinshank comment...
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/katie-hurley/theres-nothing-selfish-about-suicide_b_5672519.html
I think that one could say many, many things about suicide and other controversial topics but I saw this article the other day and I think it was very well written.
AND reading should ALWAYS be homework and possibly even a family activity.
I never judged what the teachers were doing. I know where the motivations are coming from and that is test scores. I just said I don't think they need homework. It's cool though, you can judge what I think important in our home and what I should be doing with my kid.
I have been in and out of therapy and on some kind of medication since I was a pre-teen. I was diagnosed with chemical imbalance, panic disorder, and severe separation anxiety.
I have been there and stared at the 6 bottles of pills I was over-medicated with wondering if I took all of them if it would be enough to end my life.
I have hated myself, my life and everyone else in it before.
I have also seen the complete and utter devastation that suicide can cause a family.
I think that had I chosen to commit suicide knowing what it would do to my support system would have been incredibly selfish of me. But, even though I was ill, I was still within the realm of rational decisions.
I do believe there are people so far gone that they no longer have that ability to make rational decisions. This is especially the case when debilitating substance abuse is involved.
I do apologize if my comments offended or hurt anyone who has dealt with or been affected by suicide. That was not my intention.
*Edited for typos
Precious baby boy "HC" born May 2013.
My original comment above...I said that as a person who is not a teacher I cannot make such a bold statement, but if you want to lump me in as a teacher hater fine. That is just an inaccurate assessment.
I am very much appreciative of my child's education. I do not think it should reflect poorly on me that I want the time after school to be spent learning in other ways. I feel like you are a child once and it doesn't need to always be about putting them to the grind. There will be plenty of time for all that. I am not going to change the system, but I can wish for it to be different.
My son's homework became obsurd last year. There were packets to be completed and two separate websites to be logged into as well each week. I can't consciously tell him to "fuck it", because that does nothing for him. I really wish his academic requirements were just flash cards and reading each night.
Over the years I have talked to Caden's teachers and they have ALL.expressed concern regarding the emphasis on test scores. They do acknowledge a shift towards teaching for the tests. I did not say that the teachers want to teach for testing reasons. I did say there is motivation towards what they are teaching and learning for testing purposes, because this is what I have been told.
I am not a teacher. I am simply a parent. I value education immensely, but I also value my time as a family.
I also think at a young age they need recess, but that is a whole different subject.
FWIW, my son is a little different of a case. He is the kid that scores high on the tests, but doesn't qualify for the higher level of learning programs in elementary school. Maybe my perspective would be different if he was being challenged more with his homework. My hope is in sixth grade he might qualify for honors classes and the stuff he learns at home and in the classroom is a little more tailored to his capabilities and learning speed.
@caden1206, while I understand what you're saying about wanting to spend time outside of school doing family time and learning things other than academics, I think I have to agree with everyone else that homework is absolutely essential. I am not a teacher, so I have no professional say in this, but for almost every child/young adult/teenager, I've found that oftentimes the key to actually learning something is repetition. If you don't have homework which would be practicing and repeating what you've learned in class, I don't think it will honestly sink in. If the only time you spent on academics was in the classroom, there is not going to be nearly enough time for the information to sink in and be thoroughly processed. I never had any "free" periods while in school to get my work done, so I had to bring my homework home with me. Every day I would come home from school and spend hours doing my homework. My brother and I did our homework "together" even though we were 3 years apart because my parents wanted us to spend time together as a family. My mom would come sit with us and help us with our homework so we were all spending time together even if we were doing academic stuff. I never once felt that I had too much to do, or that I wasn't getting "educated" in things other than academics because my parents made a point of doing things together and learning while we did it. If homework is detracting from the time you get to spend with your kids, then sit down with them while they do it and help them. They'll learn that you want them to learn and that you can still do that while being a family. If homework is "taking too long" take a break, do something fun for 15 minutes and then go back to it. All this to say that having homework doesn't have to deter from other types of learning and/or family time. it all goes hand in hand.
also, @nonniedee, I'm sending you creepy internet hugs from here because i can.
I have a 16 year old son who will be a junior this year. His schedule is as follows:
Calculus
AP Lit
AP History
Chemistry
Philosophy
Advanced Piano
He's also a Varsity athlete with practice 5 days a week, and matches on the weekends. He gets good grades and wants to become a counselor after college.
Just curious... for the classes listed above, how would anyone succeed without homework?
No calculus homework? LOL.
No reading at home for AP lit? Read in class, and write essays during instructional periods? It would take you more than a week to write a decent essay.
No AP history homework?
No chemistry homework? LOL again.
In Philosophy, would you spend 50 minutes a day reading Plato, Descartes, and Pascal and discuss it...when?
When would you practice the piano?
I am honestly curious as to what you think the alternative would be. I had hours of homework in high school. And college. And law school. In fact, we were told to budget three hours of homework time for every hour of instructional time in the classroom. THAT is real life.
My son is not 16 and doesn't not have the academic commitments your child has. I cannot answer your question because I have not lived it. I do know that my argument around not wanting homework is motivated by the philosophy that I find time with his family or participation in extracurricular activities to be important at this stage of life. I do not consider reading to be homework.
One thing that kind of strikes me as being unfortunate is that not all high school students can devote all that time to studying. Some have jobs or other commitments that help them succeed in life (i.e. sports). While you should be very proud of your child for committing to such amazing academic endeavors I think it should be noted that not all students can commit to as much due to circumstance.
Edit; clinicals was just one "class" out of many for my degree.
Edit finished a sentence
Edit again to supplement to @SpankingShank
In my degree program we had two weeks of 3 12hr shifts in the hospital and then two weeks of classroom with coursework. This rotation happened all semester. The purpose of this was to acclimate to the hospital setting and learn hands on therapy. I was using clinicals as an example of alternative ways to learn, because it is the one most notable to me. We had one case study, but no online discussions that I know are common in nursing programs. We did not go in groups to have such discussions. We learned areas at different times based on rotations (CVICU, pediatrics, NICU, etc).
This is why I also advocate for full day kindergarten. I argue with my family about it because they say "let kids be kids" and I say, yes you can be a kid but still have rigorous learning involved.
I completely agree that college is necessary. A lot of what you have said is about looking forward to the future and preparing for the future. I don't disagree with your statements, but I am more about the right now. I want this time with my son, because I know he will be off in this busy world soon enough. I also think that as his parent I have much more to teach him than academics. I know people have mentioned making homework into a family event, but it isn't always that simple.
I do work weekends, so maybe I take the time after school more seriously. Most people are grinding M-F, but that isn't how I can work right now. I have to work weekends so I can be available for them.during the week.
Edit I dont count the bring home work. That's his fault and a natural consequence of not using his time wisely.
Perhaps this is because I came from a home where no one was around to help me with homework. I would have loved a parent to show interest in my school work. Just another perspective.
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It can be fun. The thing is you don't do it everyday or have for years (maybe you do, IDK). There also comes a point where you can't hand hold and they have to complete their tasks on their. It really isn't as simple as sitting down every night and having family homework time. If this is what your evenings look like in the future I applaud you. I find all of this to be a balancing act and at times just want the time to spend as a family not surrounded by homework.
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Yes andplusalso how can I expect my kids to take school and their work seriously if I don't get involved. I honestly think it does prepare them for university and eventually the work force in a way that is age appropriate and can be a nutueing experience. Kids want nothing more than their parents attention and if I give her attention while she is studying she will hopefully learn that school is important.
@flyliceandcoffee maybe we love homework because we're Asian. lol jk...not a racist! Just a joke between friends! Oh crap I think I've done it.
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bish that's tummy time! She's working her neck muscle lol.
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Look. I've seen bad teachers who give too much homework. Just like there's bad plumbers and bad doctors. But the vast majority of teachers are giving meaningful homework assignments to practice what was done in class, extend what was learned in class, or finish what the child didn't complete in class. I think it sounds, from what you described, that the amount he's getting is fair for the age. And the two computer programs that adjust for each child's level sounds great. That's a much more meaningful and beneficial homework than say, flash cards.
As I mentioned before the current trend in education that has everyone excited is the "flipped classroom" model. In this model your child would do his readings at home. Before they were taught. And watch videos of his teacher instructing. At home. And complete online follow up questions. Then the teacher can use her time more effectively to delve into the topics, have discussions, labs, simulations. That's real learning. I'm guessing you wouldn't like this style. Teaching and learning isn't just reading and answering questions. That's part of it and that part is better suited for home, not for in the classroom with a professional teacher. That's a waste, the teacher should be using that time to have meaningful learning experiences for the students. That's when students make huge leaps.
You have said you currently do the homework so obviously you are involved however you are also making an argument for no homework which to me would mean less involvement, less control over my child's comprehension and less ability to identify where they are struggling. I would have to rely entirely on a teacher's evaluation of my child as one of many, whereas if I were working through the material with her I could see when she was struggling without having to wait for a report card. Homework to me is the same as when the daycare lady tells me that C enjoys sorting coloured blocks so I go out and get her coloured blocks so she can do it at home too.
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I also hope from all this you (or anyone else) doesn't think I am above teaching my child at home. Over the years I think we have done our fair share of learning at home and whenever my son needs help or encouragement he knows I am available. Hell, I was the one that doesn't want to put my daughter in preschool because I want the time with her and feel like I can prepare her for school. I don't buck the system, but I don't necessarily agree with everything either. One hour consistently of homework for his age is no big deal, but that wasn't always the case.