TTC After a Loss

Pet Owners---Where did you get your furbaby?

kittymeowbarkkittymeowbark member
edited August 2014 in TTC After a Loss
My H and I are looking to add a puppy to our family. We already have 2 cats and a turtle. I would love to go the adoption route, but H would rather go to a pet store. How did you find your furbabies?
Yelena + Rubere Married: 05/13/2011
TTC since 2012
BFP#1EDD: 06/21/2014  ~  TFMR --Holoprosencephaly 
Said goodbye on 2/10/2014 at 21 weeks. We miss our baby girl "J"
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Pet Owners---Where did you get your furbaby? 86 votes

Adoption
55% 48 votes
Store
1% 1 vote
Re-home
11% 10 votes
They found you
4% 4 votes
Other
26% 23 votes

Re: Pet Owners---Where did you get your furbaby?

  • We found a breed rescue group through Petfinder and adopted an older girl that needed a new home.

    PgAL welcome


    Married 6/11/2011

    Me & Hubby: 34

    TTC journey started 12/2012

    BFP #1 6/5/2013, MC confirmed 6/26/2013 @ 7 wks

    BFP#2 8/25/2013 MC confirmed 10/16/2013 @ 12 wks (D&C 10/18)

    Diagnosis: unexplained RPL, unexplained IF.

    Also have hypothyroidism

    Started TTC again 12/2013

     

    IUI#1:Clomid CD 3-7, Trigger'ed CD 12. IUI CD 14. BFN

    IUI #2:Letrozole CD 3 - 7, Follistim CD 9, Trigger CD 10, IUI CD12. BFN

    Current plan: IVF with PGD. Antagonist - Vivelle Protocal. Stim start 12/1. ER 12/14.

    http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/502498

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  • We found my older kitty at my husband's work. It looked like the mother was a stray and gave birth to a litter of kittens near the building.

    My younger cat (in my siggy) was born under my shed. He kept hanging out on our deck and we finally took him in when he was about 5 months old.


     

    TTC since July 2012 
    BFP 5/22/13. Lap. to remove ectopic and dx with endo. 6/16/13

    RE consult: June 2014

    DX: FVL, endo, hypothyroidism, blocked left tube

    Oct. 2014: First treatment cycle: Clomid+trigger+IUI=BFN

    November 2014: Clomid+trigger+IUI again=BFP!

    BFP 11/28/14 MC discovered 1/14/15

    Blogging to stay sane

  • Friends of ours were going to take their dog to the pound if they couldn't find her a home. They have another dog that would pick on her, eat her food, and was just generally aggressive to her. We decided to take her in and I couldn't be happier with her! Our sweet Bella Bear is the doggie love of our lives :)




    Me-27 DH-29

     TTC#1 January 2013

    BFP February 27th 2014, MMC ended in D&C

    Working on our rainbow!

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  • mlal78 said:
    I picked SS because I got him from a breeder.

    Same, except ours is a her.

    "Love is what makes pain bearable." - I love you my Angels. 
    **All After a Loss Welcome**
    BFP #1: 6/25/09 EDD 2/13/10 @ 6 weeks- Saw HB @ 9 weeks - DS born 2/11/10 (39w5d)
    BFP #2: 2/20/13 EDD 11/4/13 - Saw HB 3/19/13 (7w2d) - MMC discovered 4/13/13 (10w5d) - Est. loss @ 9w3d - D&C 4/14/13
    BFP #3: 12/19/13 (4 w1d) EDD 8/27/14 - 1/1/14 discovered it was ectopic/ tube had burst/ had surgery to remove tube (@ 6 weeks)
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  • My pug was a re-home but purchased since the woman who bought him and his sister paid big money for purebreds. My grey kitty is a babysitting job gone re-home. And my fat cat well, he found us at 4 weeks.

    DH & I are both 28    Together: 12 years    Married: 09/24/2011

    BFP#1: January '12 - DD1 09/16/2012

    Preterm labor 31 weeks. Monitored for Hellp and diagnosed with oligohydramnios July '12

    BFP #2: 06/25 - EDD 03/05/15 MMC confirmed 8/1 - D&E 8/4 retained tissue discovered 8/20

    BFP #3 11/24 - 12/15 Heartbeat detected - DD2 07/29/15

  • @sarcaztic10‌ did I just read that your cats name is Kevin?! That's our pugs name.

    DH & I are both 28    Together: 12 years    Married: 09/24/2011

    BFP#1: January '12 - DD1 09/16/2012

    Preterm labor 31 weeks. Monitored for Hellp and diagnosed with oligohydramnios July '12

    BFP #2: 06/25 - EDD 03/05/15 MMC confirmed 8/1 - D&E 8/4 retained tissue discovered 8/20

    BFP #3 11/24 - 12/15 Heartbeat detected - DD2 07/29/15

  • My older doggie found me. He was 3 mo old running around in the street and he followed me home. I tried to see if he belonged to anyone but nobody claimed him so he was mine. My little girl I found through a revue that advertised on petfinder.
    *Losses mentioned*
    Me: 34 DH:32
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  • We got our oldest from a friend, who got him from a shelter and our youngest from a family breeder we found through petfinder, he was the last of the litter so we call him clearance puppy. :) 
  • SS --Our pack is a mixed bag...

    Gizzy (corgi) - H got from a breeder
    Ava (rhodesian ridgeback) - I got from a breeder
    Buck (aussie) - Rehome/he found us...he should up at a friend's house & we happened to visit them to look at calves. Didn't buy any calves but came home with a free dog lol
    Cooper (mini aussie) - Rehome from a breeder

    Uno (kitten) - Rehome...our lone surviving barn cat currently



    PS most pet stores purchase from puppy mills or non-reputable breeders so I would not encourage this route.

    TTC since Sept 2012
    M/C on 5/01/13 at 8 wks
    AF finally appeared 11 wks later per Provera
    Diagnosed with PCOS on 7/29/13

    Three Failed Medicated Cycles, NTNP Indefinitely

    BFP #2 9/14/14, EDD 5/23/14...MMC discovered @ 9w2d; D&C 10/23/14

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  • Pet store do not have the most reputable standing with the public or industry though most have cleaned up their act to a certain degree, it leaves a lot to be desired. Plus pet stores usually charge more than a reputable breeder in my experience for no valid reason. My veterinarian friend shared an article about it the other day and I'll try to keep looking for it to share with you. In the meantime, I've listed where I got all my fur babies from. :)

    Aussie - Rescued from a hoarding situation though we initially went to the property expecting a reputable breeder situation. I tried to call Animal Control, PETA (hate them but sometimes useful), and Aussie rescue groups but no one would investigate. Two years later, over 60 dogs on his double-wide trailer property were confiscated after he violated his parole as a sex offender. Click here for the article.

    German Shepherd - Reputable breeder who imported the litter from Germany and later adopted his mom. They now donate dogs for our military veteran service dog program.

    Cat - Rescued from underneath an indoor riding arena at 5 weeks old. The barn owner wanted to take all four to the overcrowded shelter but I took them instead because they were extremely feral then hissing and spitting at everyone.

    Horses - Purchased from previous owners, but that's how the equine business typically operates.



    Life is a balance of holding on and letting go.

    BFP #1 05/19/14, EDD 01/19/15, MMC 06/12/14 

     BFP #2 10/10/14, EDD 06/19/15

  • <------ My dog was a rescue from our local SPCA. I got both of my cats when I was working as a vet tech.  Someone found my male kitty and his brother in a box out with the trash. They were only about 4-5 days old, so I bottled fed them. I give his brother to a client, but I got attached to them and wanted to keep one. My DH got our female cat when we first started dating. Someone brought her in to my work because they found her and her two kittens in a barn. Since the mother cat didn't have a home DH felt sorry for her and took her home.
  • *warning: rant about "pet stores" to follow my answer*

    We researched breeders and went that route because we wanted a golden retriever and they are prone to hip dysplasia and we wanted the best chance at getting a dog who would not be in excruciating pain from joint problems. I think rescue is great, but you don't know the lineage, the parents may or may not have been selected for health reasons and to better the breed and thus there is an inherent risk that comes along with that.

    I think if you get a "mutt" from the local shelter that is great. You don't really know what it is, but it is almost certainly not inbred.



    Okay, here is my rant: pet stores are almost exclusively (despite what they will tell you) stocked by puppy mills. I urge you to do some research. No dog should live the lives these mother dogs do. It is cruel; they are not given love or medical attention, they are bred as often as possible, there is no consideration to health or genetics, and the list of appalling treatment goes on. Please do not further encourage these puppy mills by giving them money. Adopt from your local shelter if you are looking to go a less expensive route. Otherwise, be prepared to spend $1800 or so to a breeder who can give you lineage and health clearances for 5 generations. *rant over*

    Good luck with your quest for a fur baby!
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    AMA 35 :  DH 33
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  • MrsG80inTNMrsG80inTN member
    edited August 2014
    We got our sweet pup directly from a breeder.

    ETA - I rescued our cat through a local rescue place when I lived in Jacksonville, fl.

    Me 35 / DH 36
    TTC since 09/2009
    Hashimoto's diagnosis 11/2011 / Endometriosis removal surgery 04/2013
    Other diagnosis: 1 mutation - PAI-1 gene
    BFP#1 9/27/2013  /  EDD 6/4/14  /  MC 10/17/2013
    BFP#2 3/4/14  /  EDD 11/13/14  /  CP
    BFP#3 6/7/14  / EDD 2/16/15  /  CP
    BFP #4 11/7/2014 / EDD 7/17/15  /  CP
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  • kittymeowbarkkittymeowbark member
    edited August 2014
    Thank you everyone who responded! It's pretty awesome hearing all these stories.

    Both our our cats found us and I adopted my dog (who lives with my mom) from a shelter.
    We live in NYC and most dogs in our shelters are pitbulls (such as my Simba.) I personally LOVE LOVE LOVE pitbulls, but my H does not want that to be our first breed together. (He has promised me to adopt a Pitbull later on.) We are looking at Labs or Border Collies but they are pretty difficult to find in my area. I am looking through Petfinder and I am sure we will end up finding the right furbaby for us eventually.


    @Amybunny30 -- Your post is very informative. My H is looking more towards breeder rather than store. When I created this poll (first time doing one) I grouped store and breeder together, which I see are two completely different things.  So he wants to go breeder (reason above ^) and I like adoption. Most of my other furbabies found us and I was really hoping it would be the case this time, but no luck. We have to find him/her. --Thank you!


    @paintdadanta -- Yes, please share the article when you can. WOW, 60 dogs. I am glad your pup found a good home with you.

    @meredithcarole -- We will more than likely be adopting. I would not consciously support puppy mills.


    Edited: Spelling 8-}
    Yelena + Rubere Married: 05/13/2011
    TTC since 2012
    BFP#1EDD: 06/21/2014  ~  TFMR --Holoprosencephaly 
    Said goodbye on 2/10/2014 at 21 weeks. We miss our baby girl "J"
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  • @Amybunny30 I completely agree with you on the shelters. I also have a related soapbox as someone who lives in the country. Because people don't want their pets euthanized they dump them in the country and little do they know the reality that awaits them. People think they're "setting them free"; when actually they've most certainly sentenced them to a painful death. Most dumped dogs either starve to death, are killed by wild animals, run over, or shot by farmer/ranchers protecting their livelihood. A very very small % end up being taken in by someone.

    I hate irresponsible people.

    TTC since Sept 2012
    M/C on 5/01/13 at 8 wks
    AF finally appeared 11 wks later per Provera
    Diagnosed with PCOS on 7/29/13

    Three Failed Medicated Cycles, NTNP Indefinitely

    BFP #2 9/14/14, EDD 5/23/14...MMC discovered @ 9w2d; D&C 10/23/14

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  • @Amybunny30‌ =D>
    Well said lady! I wasn't sure how to address that without sounding mean and judgey. We went to a pet store once on a whim and saw the cutest pup. I wanted to "save him" but I knew that would only perpetuate a puppy mill. It broke my heart to leave him there. The next day I was researching rescues.

    PgAL welcome


    Married 6/11/2011

    Me & Hubby: 34

    TTC journey started 12/2012

    BFP #1 6/5/2013, MC confirmed 6/26/2013 @ 7 wks

    BFP#2 8/25/2013 MC confirmed 10/16/2013 @ 12 wks (D&C 10/18)

    Diagnosis: unexplained RPL, unexplained IF.

    Also have hypothyroidism

    Started TTC again 12/2013

     

    IUI#1:Clomid CD 3-7, Trigger'ed CD 12. IUI CD 14. BFN

    IUI #2:Letrozole CD 3 - 7, Follistim CD 9, Trigger CD 10, IUI CD12. BFN

    Current plan: IVF with PGD. Antagonist - Vivelle Protocal. Stim start 12/1. ER 12/14.

    http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/502498

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  • @Km380 when I was an inspector for the state, I had a pet store in my territory, and every time I had to go in there for a price audit I would leave brokenhearted & depressed. Literally ruined my day every time  :-< I hated seeing those poor puppies in that situation.

    TTC since Sept 2012
    M/C on 5/01/13 at 8 wks
    AF finally appeared 11 wks later per Provera
    Diagnosed with PCOS on 7/29/13

    Three Failed Medicated Cycles, NTNP Indefinitely

    BFP #2 9/14/14, EDD 5/23/14...MMC discovered @ 9w2d; D&C 10/23/14

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  • @Km380 when I was an inspector for the state, I had a pet store in my territory, and every time I had to go in there for a price audit I would leave brokenhearted & depressed. Literally ruined my day every time  :-< I hated seeing those poor puppies in that situation.

    It's just so sad

    PgAL welcome


    Married 6/11/2011

    Me & Hubby: 34

    TTC journey started 12/2012

    BFP #1 6/5/2013, MC confirmed 6/26/2013 @ 7 wks

    BFP#2 8/25/2013 MC confirmed 10/16/2013 @ 12 wks (D&C 10/18)

    Diagnosis: unexplained RPL, unexplained IF.

    Also have hypothyroidism

    Started TTC again 12/2013

     

    IUI#1:Clomid CD 3-7, Trigger'ed CD 12. IUI CD 14. BFN

    IUI #2:Letrozole CD 3 - 7, Follistim CD 9, Trigger CD 10, IUI CD12. BFN

    Current plan: IVF with PGD. Antagonist - Vivelle Protocal. Stim start 12/1. ER 12/14.

    http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/502498

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  • @kittymeowbark‌ I see what you mean with grouping for a poll. I am glad you wouldn't support a puppy mill :) Hopefully my rant wasn't too harsh. It's just one of the subjects I feel passionately about.
    TTCAL January Siggy Challenge: Animals in the Snow

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    AMA 35 :  DH 33
    BFP#1 1/26/14 (EDD: 10/7/14).  MMC 3/10/14 D&C 3/14/14
    RE Consult 11/3/14 - AMH 2.25 "great" . FSH 7.10 . Low Vitamin D
    Myomectomy 12/17/14.  Benched until March.

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  • @kittymeowbark just to add on to what @Amybunny30 said about border collies...I want to stress they are super smart and ACTIVE. They are high energy dogs that were bred to work and thus require lots of exercise. Something to consider living in NYC.

    TTC since Sept 2012
    M/C on 5/01/13 at 8 wks
    AF finally appeared 11 wks later per Provera
    Diagnosed with PCOS on 7/29/13

    Three Failed Medicated Cycles, NTNP Indefinitely

    BFP #2 9/14/14, EDD 5/23/14...MMC discovered @ 9w2d; D&C 10/23/14

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  • @Amybunny30 -- We fell in love with the Cane Corso breed, but opted against it since they too are hunters and might see my Kitties as food. I did not think Border Collies could potentially be aggressive towards cats. Good to know!! We LOVE Mastiffs, that is our dream dog, but living in a apartment just would not be fair for such a gentle giant. Lab might be the breed for us at the moment. Thank you for all your help. Seriously, your the best!


    @meredithcarole -- Not at all! I respect your passion.

    @blackbird818   -- We live 1 block away from a big park (about 3 miles of park) that I can take our pup to. Still a very valid concern since I can't just open the door to a backyard. Thank you.
    Yelena + Rubere Married: 05/13/2011
    TTC since 2012
    BFP#1EDD: 06/21/2014  ~  TFMR --Holoprosencephaly 
    Said goodbye on 2/10/2014 at 21 weeks. We miss our baby girl "J"
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    Lilypie Angel and Memorial tickers
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  • We got the famous Benji from a no-kill shelter. They re-home thousands of cats. It's amazing how much that little asshole has cheered us up since Addie passed.

          THE DARK SIDE IT IS

     and GBCB

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  • Bull mastiffs would be close in size to a lab. Not sure which mastiff you were referring to. English mastiffs are quite large.

    TTC since Sept 2012
    M/C on 5/01/13 at 8 wks
    AF finally appeared 11 wks later per Provera
    Diagnosed with PCOS on 7/29/13

    Three Failed Medicated Cycles, NTNP Indefinitely

    BFP #2 9/14/14, EDD 5/23/14...MMC discovered @ 9w2d; D&C 10/23/14

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    ***** All ALers welcome *****

  • I second what @Amybunny30 said about pet stores and puppy mills.  I know you've already said you're not going to do anything to support puppy mills, just want to throw in my two cents. ;;)

    Both of our dogs are from a rescue agency and both were at one time puppy mill dogs.  Jasmine was rescued as a puppy with her mother and 3 brothers.  Duncan, on the other hand, wasn't rescued from the puppy mill until he was over a year old.  He was about 20 lbs underweight when we adopted him.  He is terrified of storms, because he was left out in the elements, to the point where he will sit in a corner and drool on himself until it stops.  His teeth are in horrible condition because he tried to chew his way out of a metal cage.  He gets snappy, mostly just when he's tired now, if you approach him from behind.  He used to hide any treats we would give him, fearful that he wouldn't get another.  It's really quite sad to see the difference in behavior between Jasmine, who only lived at a puppy mill for the first 2 weeks of her life, and Duncan who lived at one for over a year.  

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    BFP: 3/9/2014  EDD: 11/11/2014  MMC: 4/10/2014  D&C: 4/11/2014
  • The one we have now was a rehome. Our last dog, showed up in my parents yard one day and wouldn't leave. We put up signs, but no one claimed her. She was the most amazing dog.
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  • Both my dogs (JRTs) are from a breeder. He is a family friend and gifted our male to DH before we met, and then our female to us later.

    I would not recommend a pet store, if YH doesn't want to adopt then I would look into a reputable breeder as another option.

    BFP #1 05/03/12 DD: 12/18/12
    BFP #2 05/26/14 MMC: 6/26/14 D&C: 7/18/14
    BFP #3 10/09/14 MC 10/24/14


  • I am a little late and just have cats (one born to a stray at my parents and one from a former roommate).

    When I was growing up we had poodles.  I remember the one 'reputable' breeder we went to.  The place was on its way to being a puppy mill.  There were 20 dogs in a converted barn and the woman did not really know which puppies belonged to which mom.  My mom was so upset she took the runt, only gave the woman half price and left.  When we got home she called the ASPCA. She ended up being one of the best, calmest dogs we ever had, even adopted a kitten as her own.  

    I am not involved with breeding at all, but it was clear  that no one checked on this woman.  My parents got her info from our vet (we also stopped going there).
  • All three of our dogs came from breeders. Our cat came from a shelter.

    Me: 38
    DX:  Adenomyosis, Compounded MTHFR, PAI-1 4G variant

    DH: 34
    MFI due to Testicular Cancer

    Married March 2012 <3
    IVF w/ICSI #1
    10 little polar bears
    FET #1 with 2 polar bears ~Nov 6, 2013 BFN :(
    FET # 2 with 2 more polar bears ~March 19, 2014 BFP!!!
    Beta 1= 276
    Beta 2= 662
    4/19/14 ~ baby A became an angel
    5/02/14 ~ baby B became an angel
    5/3/14 ~ D&C
    FET #3 with 1 male polar bear ~October 3, 2014
    October 13, 2014 ~ BFN
    Fur Children:  Memphis 3y, Dutch 3y, Marcel 2y, Meadow 1y



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  • We usually go to the humane society... I am a fan of a mut. I did get my special little guy free from craigslist.

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                ***TTCAL January siggy challenge ***
  • I got my beautiful little girl from a rescue organization in the Northeast.  I adore her, and she is the favorite of everyone in the neighborhood for her sweet disposition.  She is super smart--she knows how to bow and sing.

    I highly recommend adoption!  

    Me (34); DH (35)

    BFP 11/25/13; Heard strong heartbeats for 3 weeks; Natural MC (1/15/14)

    BFP 11/11/14 EDD 07/21/15 hoping for our rainbow!

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  • I "got" him via marriage :P
    Me - 35 DH - 41
    TTC 06.03.2013 
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  • @Amybunny30 when we got our last adopted pet we went to a breeder who had puppies in her house.  One mom dog who had a litter once every 1 1/2.  My husband wants a dog, I am pushing for a rescue.
  • Rescue from Petfinder!
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    BFP #6 1/5/15 - EDD 9.16.14 [CLICKY for progress]
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  • i actually posted an ad on craigslist saying what i was looking for and i got the yorkie i wanted for the price i wanted. I think we were meant for each other :)

    ~TTC #1 Since 3/2014
    ~BFP #1 6/2014 
    EDD 2/11/15
    ~MMC 7/31/14 @12weeks ~D&C /2/2014  

  • @kittymeowbark - DH and I got out English Bulldog from a website called purebred breeders.org.  They are kind of a "middle man" that monitors breeders to ensure safety and that they are not puppy mills.  Our bulldog came from Texas & FLEW COACH into Philadelphia.  We then bought my mom's Golden through them, as well, but a different breeder. We are very happy!
    **Formerly kvillano82**
    **DX - Unexplained IF**
    BFP#1 3/9/13 - EDD 11/6/2013 - MMC 3/21/13 - D&C 3/25/13 
    Clomid 12/13, 1/14, 2/14 - cysts developed 
    Femara 4/16/14-4/20-14 Ovidrel 4/23/14 IUI 4/25/14 - BFN
    Femara 5/14/14-5/18/14 IUI 5/23/14 - BFP#2 on 6/6/14 & EDD 2/13/15 - MMC 7/1/14 - D&E 7/2/14 
    **All karyotyping negative, autoimmune panel negative, HSG & Hysteroscopy show nothing wrong with ute**

    image      

    Daisypath Anniversary tickers Lilypie Angel and Memorial tickers


    Lilypie Angel and Memorial tickers
  • We adopted a retired racing greyhound from Oxford, England. I had no idea how lazy adult greyhounds can be, which is perfect because we work 9 - 10 hrs a day.

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    TTC #1 since June 2012
    Current Status:  IVF with ICSI and PGS
    Genetic, RPL, SA and Fertility testing = Normal/Good
        HSG = All Clear
    BFP #1 12.30.2012  ||  Blighted Ovum 02.05.2013  ||  D&C 02.11.2013
    BFP #2 09.10.2013  ||  c/p 09.12.2013

    BFP #3 12.1.2013  ||  mm/c  01.15.14  ||  D&C 01.21.14  chromosome abnormality
    May 2014:  Residual HCG and retained tissue found
    05.13.2014:  Hysteroscopy D&C to find and remove retained tissue
    June 2014:  Tissue sample results indicate a partial molar pregnancy
    May - Aug 2014:   TTA for monitoring and testing
    08.21.2014:  Hysteroscopy to remove minor scar tissue - the result of 3 D&Cs
    Sept/Oct: IUI #1  Femara + Bravelle + Ovidrel = BFN
    Oct/Nov: IUI #2  Femara + Ovidrel = BFN
    Nov/Dec: IUI #3  Femara + Bravelle + Ovidrel = BFN

    My Ovulation Chart  || *~*~All AL Welcome~*~* ||  DIY Blog

    imagehttp://i59.tinypic.com/v5ztqr.jpg  image

    image image 

  • SS 
    My cat, Bella, was from a friend who found abandoned kittens in a pool house he was cleaning but couldn't keep them because of allergies
    My cat, Coby, was  adopted at PetSmart (they have charities that have a small section in the store.  
    My dog was adopted from a shelter.  He is a good dog, not very smart or coordinated, but has a gentle and playful spirit which is important because he is really my son's. 
  • All 3 of ours are rescuses. I rescued my Golden from Yankee Golden Retriever Rescue, my H paid $100 for our Papillion (before I met him) to get her out of a bad home and after we were married I was fostering for a rescue and our Beagle is our foster fail. Our Beagle was our 7th foster and we knew right away she was ours, lucky #7 I guess.
     Daisypath Anniversary tickers        Daisypath Happy Birthday tickers

    Oct Angel*BFP 1/25/14 * EDD 10/6/14 * US#1 2/26/14 *US#2 3/3/14 no heartbeat*d&c 3/12/14*

    BFP 1/17/15 * EDD 9/30/15

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