VERY IMPORTANT QUESTION

mstal0929

My mil cosigned on our house with me when we bought it two years ago. With all of the drama of yesterday and us saying she is not going to be watching dd she is now saying she is going to put our house up for sale. She can't do this without me signing off on it right? I'm 99% sure that's right but just making sure!

mstal0929

Thanks @golfergirl08‌

mstal0929

If I remember right we were told that the only way to get her off of the house was to refinance which would require another down payment which I don't have.

mstal0929

PrivacyWanted said:

That's way outside my lawyerly expertise.
But this may help https://finance.zacks.com/cosign-loan-can-sell-property-1901.html

Is she on the title?

Yes I think she is. I'm looking through my paperwork from the signing and her name is after mine on everything.

mstal0929

PrivacyWanted said:

You probably want to talk to a lawyer in your state.
But just logistically I imagine she'd have a hard time selling a house that can't be shown because you don't allow access, and few agents would touch that mess

Good point. Thanks that makes me feel better. I'm going to make some calls first thing in the morning for sure.

LuckyDad

You won't be homeless tomorrow or next week. But yeah, lawyer up.

KMRR86

Ok, I read your other thread and holy wow. The best response is exactly what @PrivacyWanted‌ said. I would just say "good luck with that, crazy pants. Let me know how far you get.". Seriously, I'm wishing you good luck with this piece of work.

spotco2

She can not sell the house without you signing the papers since both names are on the deed. You also can not sell the house without her signing off on it.

You don't need a lawyer for anything. Even if she tried, the buyers attorney would do a title search and quickly find your name on the property deed.

You would have to refi or pay off the mortgage to get her name off the deed and mortgage paperwork. There are fee's involved in a refi but depending on the equity in the property sometimes they can be rolled over into the refi so nothing comes out of your pocket.

Unfortunately, you're stuck with her holding this over your head until the house is paid for or she dies. Sounds like hubby needs to grow a pair and have a talk with his mommy.

RondackHiker

spotco2 said:

She can not sell the house without you signing the papers since both names are on the deed. You also can not sell the house without her signing off on it.

You don't need a lawyer for anything. Even if she tried, the buyers attorney would do a title search and quickly find your name on the property deed.

You would have to refi or pay off the mortgage to get her name off the deed and mortgage paperwork. There are fee's involved in a refi but depending on the equity in the property sometimes they can be rolled over into the refi so nothing comes out of your pocket.

Unfortunately, you're stuck with her holding this over your head until the house is paid for or she dies. Sounds like hubby needs to grow a pair and have a talk with his mommy.

Her husband has been great. His reply to his mom (posted in the other thread) was perfect. Mom seems crazy. Talking won't get her to act like a mature and reasonable adult.

@mstal0929 She really is doing her best to destroy any sort of relationship, isn't she? I can't believe she's this irrational. She risked your daughter's life (and admitted that it'd be wrong if anyone else did what she did) and is now trying to sell your home out from under you because you called her on risking the baby's life?

Crazy.

acesup

I have nothing to offer other than what PPs said. She can't sell. She is straight crazy. I'm floored at her behavior. I would cut all ties. I would also look into refi. You won't need a down pymt, just fees which can usually be rolled into the mortgage. It would be worth it to me.

I also like @HilarityEnsued‌ idea

angelashly

Sorry you are dealing with this. You have gotten great advice

ASmallWonder

Listen, taking emotion out of this (which is HARD to do), I am 99% sure your MIL is legitimately mentally unstable.  I know this because I could tell you stories that would leave you wondering if your husband and I were born of the same woman.  They live for the upper hand and relish drama and threats.  That she would threaten to take away her son and grandchild's home speaks volumes - she doesn't mean it and is using it as leverage.  Tell her good luck and that when none of you has anything to do with her anymore, she should remember that she threatened her own son and grandchild's home as a way to win an argument.  You seriously have all my sorries but through all this, even though your husband is clearly aligned with you, please please remember how emotionally hard this will be for him even if he seems like he's standing strong.  Dealing with this from your own mother leaves you beaten down.

mstal0929

Thanks for the advice everyone. Dh is really hurt right now. She was calling and texting him until 330 this morning saying repeatedly how much she hates all 4 of us and how "yours wife's other daughter" ruined her life and how dh is the biggest disappointment. She said she was embarrassed to call him her son and that it is all because of his ungrateful selfish bitch of a wife. He didn't engage her in anything and just kept saying she really needed to think about what she was saying because there is no going back from that.

Then she called again and told him his grandma (whom he is very close to) hates him too and so does everyone else in their faimly. She has gone off the freaking deep end! We finally stopped answering after she said she was going to call the police and say we were trespassing on her property.

mstal0929

ASmallWonder said:

Listen, taking emotion out of this (which is HARD to do), I am 99% sure your MIL is legitimately mentally unstable.  I know this because I could tell you stories that would leave you wondering if your husband and I were born of the same woman.  They live for the upper hand and relish drama and threats.  That she would threaten to take away her son and grandchild's home speaks volumes - she doesn't mean it and is using it as leverage.  Tell her good luck and that when none of you has anything to do with her anymore, she should remember that she threatened her own son and grandchild's home as a way to win an argument.  You seriously have all my sorries but through all this, even though your husband is clearly aligned with you, please please remember how emotionally hard this will be for him even if he seems like he's standing strong.  Dealing with this from your own mother leaves you beaten down.

I can't even imagine how hard this is for him. She keeps saying he's fine and that it's no big deal but it obviously is. I mean it's his mother!

ASmallWonder

@mstal0929 I'm really actually shaking right now because when I tell you I've had those conversations you just wouldn't believe it.  If you need to talk, feel free to PM me.  My advice is to shut the phone off.  She will use every phrase she can think of to get a reaction, caring not the permanent damage she's leaving behind and it is so difficult to ignore the rantings (even though you KNOW you should) when someone says such awful, hurtful things to you and about your family.  I feel badly for your family but my heart is really breaking for your DH.

ASmallWonder

I'm going all arm chair therapist on this situation but like I said, I am very sure I know exactly who your MIL is.  Deep down they are afraid and fear, to their core, being judged/disliked/etc. You called her out for doing something wrong and, while lots of people get defensive, these folks go beyond.  They fear rejection so intensely that the have a "strike first and strike hard" mentality.  If SHE does the pushing away and walking away, she didn't get hurt, she did the hurting and it's what she needs to do to not feel rejected.  

None of this really helps you, I know, because at the core you are 100% right and you can't excuse her behavior.  But sometimes it's helpful to understand the motivation so that you know you can't do anything about this.

[Deleted User]

ASmallWonder said:

@mstal0929 I'm really actually shaking right now because when I tell you I've had those conversations you just wouldn't believe it.  If you need to talk, feel free to PM me.  My advice is to shut the phone off.  She will use every phrase she can think of to get a reaction, caring not the permanent damage she's leaving behind and it is so difficult to ignore the rantings (even though you KNOW you should) when someone says such awful, hurtful things to you and about your family.  I feel badly for your family but my heart is really breaking for your DH.

Same. We've cut ties with a grandparent over very similar reactions- threats, guilt, tantrums, bullying. It was hard but I honestly don't regret it. PM if you want to talk.

[Deleted User]

She's not in control so she is spiraling and using horrible means to try to gain back control. She will only get worse, I'm afraid. It's really best to just cut ties until she simmers.

klondikebar

I'm sorry she is behaving this way towards your family. I'd do everything in my power to refinance as soon as possible and cut ties. I have little tolerance for this type of bullshit. I put up with it for too long from my mother and sheep family members. It's not easy, but it's worth it in the end. Hugs.

ASmallWonder

Exactly, Marla.  My only surprise is if this is new behavior.  I would tend to doubt this is the first time she's acted like this, though maybe not to this extreme.

klondikebar

I missed that her name is on the deed as well. Crud. That's a rough spot to be in.

[Deleted User]

ASmallWonder said:

Exactly, Marla.  My only surprise is if this is new behavior.  I would tend to doubt this is the first time she's acted like this, though maybe not to this extreme.

For us it was subtle until a one big event that prompted the spiral. It wasn't until then that we stepped back and realized a pattern.

It's akin to emotional abuse. It's often subtle and you can't really pinpoint it until you put it all together.

Think of a shotgun pattern on a target. Zoom in and it's a small dot here, another small dot here, one here, etc. It isn't until you step back and look at the whole target that you seem the total amount of damage.

NotSharknado

This is grounds for cutting her out completely. She's irrational and has very poor judgement. Threatening your lively hood is beyond crossing the line.

outnumbered

mstal0929 said:

Thanks for the advice everyone. Dh is really hurt right now. She was calling and texting him until 330 this morning saying repeatedly how much she hates all 4 of us and how "yours wife's other daughter" ruined her life and how dh is the biggest disappointment. She said she was embarrassed to call him her son and that it is all because of his ungrateful selfish bitch of a wife. He didn't engage her in anything and just kept saying she really needed to think about what she was saying because there is no going back from that. Then she called again and told him his grandma (whom he is very close to) hates him too and so does everyone else in their faimly. She has gone off the freaking deep end! We finally stopped answering after she said she was going to call the police and say we were trespassing on her property.

I am very sorry that your family is going through this.  I read your post yesterday and I felt so bad for your 9 year old.  I have a 9 year old and she would have been very upset to see her younger siblings put in danger. 

Your MIL sounds like a child in a rage.  When my middle child was 4 he was like that.  He would get mad at being disciplined and he would say irrational things and dig his hole deeper and deeper.  We just had to walk away and put him in his room.  Too bad your MIL is supposed to be an adult.  You are doing a great thing by not engaging anymore at all.  Again I am sorry this is happening to your family, it must be heartbreaking to hear the awful things.

jesuisfatiguee

That is so fucked up. I am so sorry.

ASmallWonder

MarlaSinger& said:

Exactly, Marla.  My only surprise is if this is new behavior.  I would tend to doubt this is the first time she's acted like this, though maybe not to this extreme.

For us it was subtle until a one big event that prompted the spiral. It wasn't until then that we stepped back and realized a pattern. It's akin to emotional abuse. It's often subtle and you can't really pinpoint it until you put it all together. Think of a shotgun pattern on a target. Zoom in and it's a small dot here, another small dot here, one here, etc. It isn't until you step back and look at the whole target that you seem the total amount of damage.

Fair enough and very true.  I've been on the "aware" side of things for about 4.5 years but I now know there were a lot of signs much earlier.  And you're right about the "big thing."  Mine got worse when I met my husband (lack of control) and when I had my first son and realized I needed to pull away, the major spiral happened.

[Deleted User]

We haven't had contact in two years. The first few months were the hardest on DH. You just have to remember that they are making this choice, not you. They put you in this spot.

tattooedtragedy

I'm so sorry that you are going through this. I can't even imagine how hard this must be on your family.

RondackHiker

I feel so sad for you and your family. Your husband and nine year old especially.

Is your nine year old doing okay?

Has your H tried calling his grandmother?

Because there is legal stuff here with both of you on the deed, I'd try to screen shot as much of her crazy as possible, just in case. I don't know if it could be helpful, but it can't hurt to have, especially if she continues to act like this.

NotSharknado

So she hates her son and grandchildren? Unbelievable.

NotSharknado

And she's harassing you guys. I'd threaten to call the police.

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

mstal0929

MotherOfPearl85 said:

Fuck that bitch.

Literal LOL @motherofpearl85. This is sums up exactly how I feel about all of this!

mstal0929

She text him this morning saying that she doesn't remember anything that she said but she read through her texts and feels awful. Her husband told her some of the things she said and she hopes DH can forgive her.

He responded by saying that alcohol is not an excuse and it will take her a really long time to repair the damage she did last night.

We are going to submit paperwork to refinance today and the loan officer we work with said she will try to get it pushed through so we can have an answer on Monday. I'm glad that DH isn't backing down. And I'm also glad that MIL is hopefully realizing she has a drinking problem and will get some help for that as well.

thank you again everyone!

mstal0929

PineappleLeviosa said:

All of her behavior is horrid. Outside of the car seat situation the thing that would kill me the most and make me cut ties is the "your wife's other daughter" comment. It is so absurd to imagine that she is no longer MIL's granddaughter but your child that it took me forever to figure out who she was talking about. She basically disowned your daughter for having told on her. I hate this woman. So now if you continue a relationship you have to worry about how she is going to treat your 9 year old.

Exactly. She will not be around my older dd again even if DH reconciles with her later down the road. She said some awful things about her that I won't forgive.

ValR1919

Neither one of you can sell the house without the other persons permission. You also cannot refi without her permission and can only get her name off title if she agrees to it. You may have to go to court to compel the courts to have her name removed from the title however be prepared for worst case the judge makes you sell and split proceeds based on her being a 50% title owner. Make sure you have proof of every payment made. Good luck. We are going thru this with my mother in law but with my husbands car not our house which is different but still awful.

mstal0929

 

ScoutNumbers05 said:

If there is anyway to get her off your house deed, I would think it worth it.

Agreed. The loan officer we work with called back and said she has everything she needs and will get it pushed through for us.