UO Bishes

ccip82

This might be a post and run today. I have to pick up DD from nursery soon and have a bajillion things to get done before we leave tomorrow. 

ccip82

I love how this week is breastfeeding awareness week and I am seeing more pictures of mothers nursing their LOs pop up on my news feed...which brings me to my UO.

 I don't understand and get rage-y toward women who have issues with other women nursing in public. I would be less surprised receiving criticism from a typical chauvinistic man...but another female?? Seriously??

...says the still angry ccip who received a dirty look of disgust from another woman at the park the other day. 

ccip82

In hindsight my UO might be lame because I am sure we discussed this before...

KrystalCrockett

2 things:

1. It should just be called "feeding" I hate the breastfeeding vs bottle feeding.

2. I had no problem feeding in public, but I preferred being covered. Some of these "support breastfeeding" ads are borderline shaming those that do cover up. It was always for my comfort and no one elses.

Sincerely, the woman who bottle feeds her son with a light blanket over his head when it's bright and he's tired.

ccip82

@krystalcrockett

I would never make someone feel uncomfortable or judge them for wanting to cover up while NIP, it is entirely their prerogative. It's a personal choice- just like it is a personal choice to BF FF, NIP, etc. In a perfect world people could feed their LOs however the eff the want without the needless judging and mommy shaming.

KrystalCrockett

ccip82 said:

@krystalcrockett

I would never make someone feel uncomfortable or judge them for wanting to cover up while NIP, it is entirely their prerogative. It's a personal choice- just like it is a personal choice to BF FF, NIP, etc. In a perfect world people could feed their LOs however the eff the want without the needless judging and mommy shaming.

Preach it, sister! And I realize posting after you made it look like I had an issue with your post. I didn't at all, I've been holding this stuff in all week.

sugarland726

I think the concerns about ebola in the US because of the doctor and nurse coming back are unfounded and from people who haven't done research on how ebola is actually transmitted or why it can be spread so easily in Africa.

peanutmuse

I have a UO related to breastfeeding.

I am damn proud that I EBF'ed for 6 months. I wanted to share that accomplishment when my nursiversary came up, because I had a lot of challenges and struggles (delayed milk, tongue-tie/latch, supply issues, excess lipase). But at the same time I felt the need to make a disclaimer that formula feeding is ok. Because it is. But it sucked that I felt that I had to do that or risk offending people. Why couldn't I just share my accomplishment without mentioning that it's ok to not do it the same way that I did?

Here is how I've been framing it in my head, and why I am so upset about it. My friends constantly post pictures of themselves after running marathons, and people congratulate them. All of the comments are positive, always. No one feels the need to say, "but not running and doing yoga or zumba or [insert any other form of exercise] is ok too." Why? Because what one person chooses to do for herself and her pride in her accomplishment has nothing to do with what someone else chooses to do. So why should it be any different for breastfeeding? Why should I have to say "but it's ok if you formula feed" in my post about how proud I was to EBF for 6 months? But if I don't, people feel the need to make comments about it. (And if you don't think that's true, I will tell you -- it is. Because it happened on the very post that I'm talking about.)

bensmommy518

On the whole BF/NIP issue I find that the whole BF awareness week tends to encourage mommy wars and mommy guilt especially who dont BF or who dont BF the way they think they should (regarding covers, in public, supplementing etc).  I have a friend who really wanted to breastfeed and just couldn't because she did not have enough milk ducts.  Whenever it is brought up a lot (like BF awareness week) she has a really hard time with guilt over her decision to formula feed even though she intellectually knows it was the only choice she had and that there is nothing wrong with formula

I understand that for some, there is not enough support to breast feed and that is who BF campaigns are supposed to target and help but I think, from my limited experience, they also do significant mental/emotional harm to some people who cant breastfeed.  And for those who choose not to it puts them on the defensive like they have to justify their choice on how they feed their baby.  Which then puts BF advocates on the attack for why 'breast is best' and cue mommy wars/debates out the ying yang. 

ccip82

This is probably going to sound harsh...but I really agree with @peanutmuse alluded to and will it take it further.

I think it is a shame that we all have to try so hard to never hurt anyone's feelings. Society is entirely overly PC today and it's an effing shame. 

I would love to delve into this more, but it is almost dinnertime here and I am struggling to phrase exactly what I would like to say. 

ccip82

^ That is what I was struggling to say...Awesomely put  @tarajeannette =D>

peanutmuse

If I didn't know better -- because it just ended -- I'd think my period is on its way. Because I'm all sorts of emotional and getting choked up about this stuff. I was legitimately upset a couple of weeks ago when this stuff happened and how I was feeling about it, and have been processing it since then. I agree, @ccip82 -- when did celebrating our own successes have to be downplayed so as not to offend someone else? It makes my heart heavy that that has somehow become our reality.

peanutmuse

beermelulu said:

I FF. When asked if I FF or BF, I fucking HATE that I feel I have to follow up my answer with an explanation as to why I FF, to ease the side eye or look of pity I get. 

I think that the best approach for that question is to say, why do you ask? Because, really -- why DO people ask?

bensmommy518

I dont think people should be afraid or unable to celebrate their accomplishments, I just think there is a difference between saying "yay I breast fed for 6 months and I am damn proud of that" and "yay I breast fed for 6 months and EVERYONE should too".  I think that sometimes the pro-breastfeeding movement goes a little too far in pressuring poeple that breastfeed is the only right way to feed a child and if you dont at least try you are doing something wrong.  Then that is why formula moms always feel they need to justify why they chose formula.

To be clear I am not saying peanut was saying everyone should breastfeed.  But I do think the topic has become such a hot button issue that whenever it is brought up (like when someone wants to celebrate their milestone) it is so easy for people on the other side to get defensive of their choice.   Like @beermelulu said she feels she has to justify FF everytime it is brought up.  It should be "Healthy ways to feed your kid" week not just a week about breastfeeding. 

This is all just my opinion coming from a breast feeding mom who has never had someone IRL tell me either way how to feed my child and who had no problem giving her first born formula when her milk dried up. 

karah4816

I have to chime in about this too. Not only can breastfeeding moms not celebrate their triumphs but whenever one asks for help someone has to immediately say "well you can always switch to formula" we know we can switch to formula. and support when that happens is a great thing. There is nothing wrong with switching to formula or using it from the start but when a mom is asking for help with breastfeeding I think it's counterproductive and missing the point that someone always has to bring up formula.

And someone might say that I don't understand the way formula feeding moms feel but I think I have some idea how it feels. When my babies were born I didn't get to do anything I wanted or that I thought was important. I didn't even get to hold my son for days. When I see people talking about things like how important skin to skin after birth is I feel sad but I don't expect them not to talk about it or chime in and say " of course it's ok if you don't do that"

Sorry for the novel.

RingOfFire11

I couldn't agree more with @peanutmuse‌ and I want to say congrats for your 6 months!! We reached this accomplishment this month too and I'm so proud. My oldest was FF so I know both sides but an accomplishment is an accomplishment. I felt the same thing after I delivered both girls. I had med-free deliveries both times but felt like I shouldn't mention IRL because it may offend those that couldn't.

Eta: wording.

peanutmuse

mrspadfoot said:

Neither @bensmommy518 nor I have said we do not think you should be able to celebrate your successes, but there us an entire week devoted to breast feeding. There is no week celebrating moms who FF because it is best for their child.

THaT is what perpetrates the mommy wars.

@mrspadfoot -- Do you have any idea what the statistics are for breastfeeding versus formula feeding?

Here: https://www.cdc.gov/breastfeeding/pdf/2013breastfeedingreportcard.pdf

THAT is why there is a week dedicated to celebrating it. Because only 37.7% of the country EBFs for 3 months. And only 16.4% EBFs for 6 months. If the scales were tipped the other way, such an emphasis would not be necessary.

American society is set up to make formula feeding easier and breastfeeding more difficult.  (Lack of sufficient maternity leave, for example) THAT is why there is a week celebrating it. There isn't a need to celebrate formula feeding because you are rewarded by your peers in subconscious ways -- because you don't have to stop working to pump 3-4 times a day, or skip nights out with friends because the baby won't take a bottle, therefore you don't have co-workers and friends upset with you.

As much as people talk a big game about support breastfeeding, talk is cheap and actions speak louder. Awareness is necessary to promote the type of environment in which women can easily and readily breastfeed IF that is their choice. The same atmosphere is not necessary for formula feeding. Awareness is not needed to make formula feeding easier for women. That's really what this is all about.  How much support do you need to be able to successfully formula feed? (That is a rhetorical question, BTW.)

ETA: When I am talking about support here, I am talking about the support to physically be able to formula feed -- not emotional support for your decision. I needed my husband to soothe the baby while I pumped to make my milk come in. When I was having supply issues, my husband or mother would hold the pump on one breast while I nursed BZ on the other side so that I could effectively use my let down. My husband and mother also would bring him to work for me when I was having supply issues so that I could nurse him because I couldn't pump enough for while I was away from him. It was not just a matter of saying "I support your breastfeeding efforts," they actually put their money where there mouths are.

Again, I'm not knocking those who FF. But if you want to know why there's a week celebrating BFing and not FFing, that's why.^

peanutmuse

Bookshelves said:

An UO, maybe? I think probably 75% of what we perceive as mom-war judgment is our own judgment of ourselves, projecting itself. (This especially extends to the BF/FF thing.) I think moms are harder on themselves than other moms are on each other. I don't know if I'm phrasing it right, but it makes sense in my head.

@Bookshelves, I know what you're saying and I totally agree.

bensmommy518

kellydew09 said:

@bensmommy518 - I don't understand how celebrating breastfeeding can cause someone else mental/emotional harm. And if that is really occurring I feel bad for those mothers. But it sounds like many people on TB are holding onto self-imposed guilt on certain topics and then lashing out whenever the subject is brought up (not you, just bumpies in general).

Maybe too much focus has been placed on BFing to the point where women can't fathom it not working for fear they are a "failure". Well, guess what - you didn't fail! Your child is growing and happy no matter which feeding method you choose. 

Celebrating it I think can SOMETIMES cause mental/emotional pain - I have seen it.  I in no way meant to imply that it always does.  What I am getting at is that for some who have tried and for some reason been unable to BF, the pressure they feel from society to do something that is just not working leaves an emotional scar.  Then when the topic is brought up it can re-open that scar for them. 

I am thinking specifically about someone I know IRL who really tried to breastfeed but physically could not.  When someone starts spouting off all the benefits to breastfeeding around her, I know it tears her up inside.  I know, and she knows, that the person talking about the pros to breastfeeding probably isn't judging her, however because of the culture of "breast is best" she has internalized that message which includes the assumption that she has failed becasue she didn't breastfeed.  I am not saying it's right or that is the intention, but it is the reality for a lot of people who tried and failed that by not breastfeeding, they have not done what was best for their child.  they should have tried harder.  Intellectually she knows it was a physical issue, but emotionally and mentally, she still perceives it as a failure as a mother. 

Again, I do think people should be able to celebrate their accomplishments, breast feeding included.  But I do think we sometimes need to keep in mind how we say things, especially on an issue like breast feeding where it is the unfortunate reality that it is such a sensitive issue to women who are already in a vulnerable position (postpartum hormonal, dealing with major life changes, feeling uncertain of parenting decisions in general etc).  

sugarland726

Bookshelves said:

An UO, maybe? I think probably 75% of what we perceive as mom-war judgment is our own judgment of ourselves, projecting itself. (This especially extends to the BF/FF thing.) I think moms are harder on themselves than other moms are on each other. I don't know if I'm phrasing it right, but it makes sense in my head.

I agree with this completely. I am way harder on myself than anyone else has ever been on me.

sugarland726

Breastfeeding is hard. Formula feeding is hard. Both for different reasons. Both are judged by women, men, mothers, fathers, old ladies at church, etc. Here is a little list making its way around the internet this week: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/kim-simon/30-ways-breastfeeding-and-formula-feeding-are-exactly-the-same_b_5614326.html

And for the formula feeders who are looking for emotional support, or need to be reminded just how kick ass you also are, here is a blog for you: https://www.fearlessformulafeeder.com/

SunflowersBride

Totally agree with @peanutmuse, @bookshelves, and @ccip82.

My UO: I've been checking out purees for my mom (BLW makes her nervous). And I don't know if this is always the case, but it seems like many of the stage 2 and beyond puree veggies are mixed with a fruit. And it made me think that this is the reason kids don't like vegetables!  There is always a fruit in there to make them taste sweeter! I get that parents want to get their money's worth from the jars they buy and make sure their kids eat it, but seriously, why are there not more varieties of just vegetables?

bee1916

My UO (just because it's on TBS right now) is that as much as I love Ross and Rachel together (FOREVER!)... I would have been okay if Ross and Carol found their way back to each other on the show. I've always enjoyed watching them in the earlier seasons. They were right to keep Janice and Chandler and Phoebe and David from ending up together though.

I think way too much about this.

Rebis58

tarajeannette said:

**snip**

See, I wish the decision to cover or not was left to the mom. Because as much as I don't want people to be uncomfortable, all they have to do is look away. I cover my boob down to DD's face. There's really not much to look at. I think people have this impression that women who nurse uncovered are being confrontational or cocky, like nursing uncovered is somehow a statement. The reality is, more often than not I'm sure, it's completely unrelated to the outside world at all.  It's just what works best for you and your kid. 

Totally agree. I sometimes use the cover, and sometimes don't. I've never had anyone pressure me to cover up, but I have been pressured to nurse uncovered which, while maybe not quite as bad (in my opinion) as shaming a mother for nursing uncovered, still feels pretty awful. I don't understand why we can't just let women set their own boundaries for what they feel comfortable with in regards to their bodies.

One of the more experienced moms at a babywearing/walking group I used to belong to before we moved was helping me shift DD in the wrap so that I could breastfeed while walking. I tried to keep myself covered (holding my hand over my breast, pulling my shirt over to cover, mentioning my nursing cover in my bag) while she was helping me position, and she was quite dismissive and told me it didn't matter if I showed my breast. She made me feel silly and embarrassed for worrying about it. The way she positioned DD (and the fact that DD was frustrated and not latching quickly) pretty much guaranteed that I had to flash nipple for a period of time, which made me feel uncomfortable. 

I understand that she was trying to be supportive and encouraging but I did feel that she should have been more respectful of my boundaries and comfort level. I didn't protest or verbalize my discomfort to her but my body language was clear enough that she commented on my discomfort, and I wish she would have either asked me about it or followed my non-verbal cues and helped me position DD in a way that kept me covered (or just let me grab my cover like I wanted!)

Sorry that got long. I just have a lot of feelings about this topic.

SandFHasse

Not a UO just a comment for the BF/FF.

I was really insecure about pulling out bottles for DS (because I have been questioned about it) until I took DD to storytime at the library for the first time. As soon as I took out a bottle to make for DS at least half the toddlers ran over to me like I had candy. I didn't feel judged by the rest of the group. I realized that all these kids probably ate from bottles too whether it be formula or breast milk.

UO maybe: I do hate the term breast is best because breast is not best for every child. Breast was not best for me when I was a baby (milk allergy) and it wasn't best for my children. I think the term puts women down and makes them/us feel worse about not breastfeeding. (This may have already been talked about but I don't remember)

growingmybun

UO: I don't feel an ounce of guilt over formula feeding.

Less UO: I feel guilt about my 3 year old who won't eat a vegetable to save his life.

UO: I don't understand or appreciate the concept of a mommy war. I don't personally identify with being a mom enough to care about what others think. And I certainly don't care what they're doing. I think it's kind of lame (for lack of a better term) to care what others think of your parenting. Isn't there something better to worry about?

ChuggingWater

@peanutmuse‌ all my sorries! I know I commented on your post. It is huge to be EBF, and you didn't need a disclaimer for me. Sometimes I feel like I have to make that same disclaimer that I'm perfectly okay with formula because DS1 was 100% FF.

Again, sorry if I made you feel like you needed a disclaimer. You've worked damn hard to ebf.

peanutmuse

@ChuggingWater -- I have no angst towards you, lady. I had to go back and look at the comments to even see what you were even talking about. (I knew that you commented but couldn't remember specifically what you said.)  And to be honest, I had been mulling over my "disclaimer" section before you even commented -- because I didn't want my MIL to make some sort of nasty comment, since she knew some of the less flattering details of my nursing struggles. I didn't want her to see my post as an attack on what SIL was doing and feel the need to retaliate. I know that sounds super crazy, but hey, you've seen the picture she gave us for the nursery, right?

ChuggingWater

@peanutmuse‌ your maIL is an amazing gift giver. Please post that pic soon.