Laying down visiting boundaries with the grandparents

tmsb827

If your MIL had a history towards violence and screaming at others (sometimes for hours), use of marijuana and alcohol to the point of impaired judgment, and were constantly lying and negative and berating you and others 90% of the time you talk to them, would you tell them this is why they're not welcome or why they can only have limited visitation with your baby? Would you be too harsh in seriously limiting their time spent with both you and your child? More importantly, do we as parents ever need a "valid" reason beyond our own judgment and what we're comfortable with? 

Because if you sugarcoat the truth and only give half-facts like "we want bonding time with the baby" instead of being more direct, won't they just keep trying and trying to get back in and simultaneously place all the blame on you without having to take any accountability for their actions? 

My friend said that if I actually tell my real reasons, the mother in question might go into a rage and try to run me over. I know that was a joke but still...or maybe it wasn't I am also afraid that she will literally make me crazy again as it has happened before. She is still in our lives but more towards little to medium contact. 

jac409

You are the mom here, and it is your responsibility to protect your child, end of story. If she is as bad as you say, I wouldn't hesitate to keep contact to a very limited basis. What does your DH say about it, since it is his mother? If anything, I would say that he should be the one to tell her why her behavior is unacceptable. Don't let her run you over, literally or figuratively.

tmsb827

I wouldn't say she's an alcoholic but she has driven drunk/tipsy before at least twice that I know of. And both FIL and BIL have drunk driving records, BIL has a criminal record and while we're not on bad terms with them, the thought of having any of this part of the family around my child scares me. 

DH thinks his family in general can be very trashy and make poor life decisions. They call him judgmental but a lot of the things he points out are just common sense. 

And the violence - she's really out of shape and hasn't successfully hurt someone in decades as far as I know (is that even the point though?) But she's certainly tried and failed to get into bar-like brawls at home. The fact that she would do that to anyone in her family though really bothers me. If I had to map out the occurrences, she probably does something like this once every few years. And last time my niece was still a toddler and screaming and crying the whole time during the fighting because obviously it was traumatizing for her. 

 

She especially gets very erratic during the holidays which is when baby is due. Actually last time she tried to hit someone was during holiday time. And it scares me that I never know what she's going to do. H counters with "I'm not scared of her anymore," but I don't think that means she'll start behaving like an actual adult should behave. 

My point though is that her main problem is her personality. When things are going fine she always does things to upset them which can sometimes lead to things like aggression or alcohol. She seems to live for drama and I don't want that for my kid. H and I are still talking about how to puzzle this out but he has said he doesn't really want her around the baby ever even when they are older because of the kind of mother she has been to her own kids. 

DH sugarcoats things with his mom as I do with mine. The general line is "I'm just very busy lately". We have had issues in general about his family and how much he lets them into our lives. We have had a few instances where we agreed on certain things like who to see or not see for the holidays one year or not allowing BIL to live with us only for him to go around and do the opposite. So it's been challenging. 

tmsb827

The other thing is that she will never acknowledge what she does, only that she sometimes goes a little crazy and gets into little fights but it's okay because that's what families do. Other times she will have no recollection of screaming at someone even if neighbors have walked by and stared at the spectacle. But I mean she's thrown a chair at H's friends mother for who knows what and punched her then-fiance in the face and told me about it twice while laughing, and I just can't sit with all of this info. But I feel like whether or not I do something (though it seems unavoidable that I'll do the latter), I'll feel awful just because it is family and it's not supposed to be this way. Almost everyone except for her estranged brother says it's okay, she's crazy, but harmless. And I just don't feel that way at all.

ksgsmu

I agree with previous posters... your husband needs to be the one to set boundaries with her.  I would say no contact or if there is contact your husband is always there in a public place etc...   If you and your husband are struggling with this perhaps speak to a pastor or counselor to get some advice.  We as internet strangers can't really offer you much.   good luck!

jennypolkadots

I'm sorry you're dealing with this. I lost my dad last year and my mom has serious issues that hinder us from having a good relationship. She lives 10 minutes away and I see her maybe once every 2 years. A good example - I sent her a nice mothers day card with some pics of me and my sister when we were kids that she probably didn't have. I heard thank you in late July and I honestly think she felt that was timely. She has a history of drug and alcohol abuse and is just very emotionally fragile. It's like being around a 14 year old in a 55 year olds body. 

Long story short - my kids won't be sheltered from her but I am not going to let her be alone with them. There would never be a time that she gets to take my baby for a day out, or that my kid will get to go spend time at nanas house. It makes me sad but it's true. I actually felt sick when she was so excited when I told her the news, because I feel like she hasn't done anything to share in our joy. Petty, I know. But I can't imagine my children calling her grandma... I just can't. 

What gives me comfort is knowing that she really doesn't have much contact with us. I expect her to come see the baby, maybe try to make a birthday or two, but that will probably be the extent. She just is way too self involved. Any other drama? You have to just tell her you won't allow her to involve your child in that and it is not an example you are comfortable with setting... so when she starts acting nuts grab your kid and walk away. Your DH needs to be the one to explain this and stick up for you though, it's not really your battle. It sucks and I really feel for you! 

tmsb827

I tried going no contact for a few months but it's hard when H isn't though...he just talks to her about twice a month which is a lot less than before.

Since we don't live near her anymore, I think he has a hard time understanding why this all bothers me so much. I just think the baby will be a magnet for her and she's already said she'll stay in town for a month (SIL is having a baby right after me) because SIL "begged" her to. She is retired so she doesn't really have anything tying her down. Honestly if BIL and SIL didn't live right by us, I don't know if MIL would bother hovering over us and our baby because we never ask her to visit. But since they are around, I know that in any contact we have with her she will just go on and on about what SIL and BIL are doing for her that we're not doing when the truth is they have complained just as much as I have but they need her for her money and have said as much.

I realize we need professional help but sometimes it's nice to vent. Both of our families are a bit dysfunctional so it's hard to remember that this is not okay. Certainly don't want our baby to grow up in that kind of environment.

The funny thing is H and I actually do want the privacy and it's not just about MIL (or my mom who I have my own qualms about). But I don't expect that to be understood. 

I have told H before that it is his place to talk to his mom just like it is my place to talk to my mom about issues. But I do get annoyed at myself when MIL will turn to me during a confrontation and say "what do YOU think?" And in my head I'm like "well if I really tell you are you going to push me or hit me over the head with a pan?" >.< But I never say anything because I'm afraid of her reaction. I usually just get really quiet and then she gets mad even if she's the one being unreasonably mean. 

She grew up in a violent household and while she is not even remotely bad as her parents were, I just stopped stopped feeling sorry for her after all she's done. Wrong is still wrong but when I'm in their world, wrong is normal. Wrong is okay. And if you don't stick by your family, you're a terrible person. And it messes with my head and H's as well. When their dad was around he intervened and made her see a psychiatrist. Another time BIL tried to stage an intervention and he was yelled at, kicked out of the house, etc, etc. 

tbarker14

Just a thought but whenever she turns to you and ask what you think. Perhaps if you spoke up and said I agree with what DH said.
It would might be better so she can't get mad that you are not saying anything. It will also help your DH feel that he has the support from you. That he's not alone when he stands up to his mom.
I agree he should be the one to tell her, but you need to be clear that it's both of your decision because it's your child. Not hers.
You both created this child, you both get to raise it as best as you can. And if limiting the child's access to certain family members because they are not a good influence as clearly you both feel his mother falls under that category it is your responsibility to protect your child.
My DH and I have certain family members that love to cause drama and we have agreed that when the time comes we will do what we need for our child. If limiting contact is what needs to be done, we will do so.

mommy5point0

I totally get your reasons why, but also tend to think overexplaining, especially to people who have these kinds of issues, just invites more conflict. A simple, "We'll be sure to let you know when we're ready for visits!" seems good. Less is more IMO.

I say this as someone who struggles with the same thing at times.

minirella

I agree that you should let your opinion be known about her behavior otherwise she isn't going to understand your plight and if you've been accepting of this behavior and haven't spoken up, she'll probably wonder where it is coming from.

I won't give you the details of our families but we have 3 alcoholics in the family (2 recovering / 1 still in denial) and then another 2 that are into drugs/manipulation/theft. They all know where we stand on the issues (I use to do police work, my husband is still an officer) and all of them except one of my FIL who has been in recovery for 20+ years (he is ex-law enforcement) stay away from us because we don't fall for their sh!t. My FIL went into recovery a long time ago, completely changed his life (he had to hit rock bottom first), and now owns a successful business. I see him at least once or more a week because my MIL watches my daughter on a part-time basis while I work.

Your MIL is the one that needs to take responsibility and get help - not you. Unfortunately, you can waste all your energy and money into trying to get her help but if she doesn't want it, nothing will change.

tmsb827

For PP that mentioned having a family full of troubled relatives - we have extended families on both sides who have similar issues and they also have a "take no bs" attitude and maybe I'm just not tough enough to deal with the drama and toxicity at all. H and I both get anxiety partly from that and also depression and sometimes it feels like a waste of time and a waste of negative emotions when this should be a happy time. If I really could I would try to move even further away and hope H gets relocated at work or something. 

Even seeing MIL 2 times a year is nervewracking enough. I am always going to wonder if she'll go too far with me. H said he'd never let her do anything too bad to me but it's hard to believe him...she's already told lies about me making me sound abusive. And H and I really have enough of our own issues to deal with and don't need extra stuff to undo our years of hard work especially as we're preparing to be parents.

My main problem is worrying too much. If I draw the line, even the worst that could happen really isn't that bad probably.

AR1313

I agree with most of the comments. Your hubby definitely needs to talk to her first though. That's his mom and she may listen to him more than the daughter-in-law. You have a good reason why you do not want her visiting too much. I would do the same if I was in your case. You are uncomfortable having your baby around her and she really wants to be around then she needs to get her life straight. Also, you are the mother and you can say who gets to come over and who doesnt. It just takes some courage.   

Kurtz No More!

I agree that if you tell them the actual reasons they might get hurt, or go crazy, or what-have-you.  But I also feel that if you tell them the actual reason then they might know what to avoid doing when they do have visitation.  Then, they might get more visitation based on good behavior.  If that's something they want, I'd like to think they'd be willing to work for it.  My mom is very always negative and not always a very nice person.  But she also has severe self esteem problems.  I'm still working out how I'm going to let her know I need a better influence in my baby's life.  I don't think I have to worry as much until the baby can understand English, but I'll have a challenge ahead of me!  

CandaceC1020

Whatever happened with this?  Did you talk to your husband about your concerns?

tmsb827

I did and I don't think we have quite reached a conclusion yet. He does feel like he does not want her around the baby because she is a poor influence and on top of that, BIL tried to steal his identity a few weeks ago which he could technically press charges for but I don't think he will. BIL has previous convictions (burglary) but not identity theft-related ones. To give an example of how MIL has reacted to these things in the past, H got arrested but not convicted years ago because they were shopping and BIL stole and H had no idea or involvement. H paid a fine and when he was venting about it MIL's response was, "well it's not like you have to send your own money - your father just sent you money so use that." She has zero empathy for these situations and has told me numerous times that H has lied about his childhood and how bad some things could be. And if either of us made a big deal of out this, we would be "ruining the family," "killing her," "making her upset on purpose." 

So for the past few weeks or so, H has been kind of acting like nothing has happened. We just avoid BIL at the moment and as far as we know, MIL and SIL do not know what BIL has done. But H told me today that he is determined to message BIL and explain that while BIL thinks this is over, it is far from over and cannot be easily overlooked if it can be overlooked at all. I don't know if BIL knows that I know but since I found out he has been asking me for favors and rides and trying to get on my good side and I've been keeping my distance. Like others have mentioned in regards to MIL, I somewhat don't know if there is a point in H explaining himself at length. BIL and MIL have very similar personalities.

Luckily I finally get a therapy appointment for tomorrow so hopefully I at least can figure out how to deal with this better. Even just typing about this and thinking about how much this family stresses me out makes me shake. 1% of me is afraid BIL or MIL will get into a psychotic mode - I've seen MIL go into scary rages and heard BIL over the phone once on drugs and it is just scary and then later they act so sweet and deny or downplay everything or claim to have changed. I regret not working harder to detach myself earlier. The more time passes, the more difficult it seems to do so.

Bigboneded

I'm sorry you're going through this! I am grateful for a very good family, but have certainly seen drama from one crazy addict uncle and tons of friends/acquaintances. And my best solution has been detachment, limited contact. Take care of you and hubby, then LO when arrives.... keep the rest out of the house? Public meetings when necessary sound safer. If its out of hand restaurants can call the cops.... again, sorry you have to deal with this. (((Hugs)))

nova99

I don't think there is even a question if right and wrong here. I come from a family of addicts and alcoholics, including myself although I have been clean for three and a half years. At the time of first use, it's not uncommon for emotional maturity to come to halt at that time; I believe non addicts can struggle with that as well, but under the influence it's magnified. I refuse to let my children be part of the chaos. If you don't put your foot down with addicts or alcoholics, they will always believe that the behavior is ok.

tmsb827

Yeah, supposedly the reason H even mentioned really putting his foot down is because he says he had a revelation yesterday and I hope that really does push him to do what's best. 

Even meeting his family at restaurants is embarrassing from them messing with the waitresses to drinking so much that you can smell their vomit in the bathroom from out in the dining area to being racist even though I'm the same race as the staff. These are all relatively "light" moments from them, and somehow H gets guilted when he doesn't spend enough time with them. I already know with MIL she will complain that the LO needs her and she'll cry grandparent's rights. The maddening thing is that she has always been functional so she is able to fool a lot of people but H and I shouldn't have to justify what we already know and feel about her and the situation. But this family really laughs at all the things they do wrong and calls it "little fights", "all families are like this," and H has pointed out that as an adult he realized there are non-dysfunctional families out there, but his family just wants him to believe that he doesn't deserve any better.

I really do like the "I refuse to let my children be part of the chaos" bit...I feel like it sums everything up without having to really explain specifics.