Not what I signed up for

GreenMonkey1

Background - DH and I both work FT, have a 2 year old DS #1, and are due to have DS #2 any day now.  I'm an administrator at a university and DH is a self-employed attorney.  My take home salary covers DC and a bit more, I carry all the benefits although we have private life insurance for DH as well as a SEP IRA. 

Topic - DH basically told me over the weekend if he ever went un-self-employed that he would have to work 7-days a week for years until he made partner.  And then he would still have to work on the weekends.  Also if I keep expecting him not to work a full/half Saturday that I'm limiting his earning potential.  I felt very much like my expectations to have a partner who does something other than work and the bare minimum at home were horrible.  He wasn't being an a##, but it was more like "this is what it's like to be married to a lawyer".  Maybe he's right, maybe he's not - he has never worked for a firm, corporation, government, etc. - and I am clearly not a lawyer.  It was the, "every lawyer I know doesn't do the home stuff (i.e. let the cable guy in, call the electrician, etc).  Ok, well, those things have to be done so that leaves me?  When do I get a break?

I just left the conversation feeling like this isn't the marriage I signed up for, and it makes me feel pretty crummy.  Not ready to talk about this with friends/family IRL, because who wants to admit these feelings?  Plus, I am due to have a baby any day now so it could just be pregnancy hormones popping up.  Although I am pretty sure the hormones may make how I feel more vibrant, but I know if our lives continue with the current arrangement for years postpartum I will have the same thoughts.  Perhaps at some point I'll be able to transition to a SAHM, but I would still be left with the brunt of parenting and family responsibilities.  So I'd have one less stressor (work), but everything else would be the same.

I'm not even sure what I'm looking for in this post, I suppose just to get this off my chest.  Clearly DH and I need some couples counseling and I likely need some individual counseling.  TIA for listening.

djm31012

I am not a lawyer , so I can not say for sure if what he is saying is accurate or not. What I can say is...when both parents work, there is undoubtedly one parent who bears the brunt of most of the day to day house stuff. In our family, thats me. That doesnt mean, however, that DH is an absent father. He does a lot and what he can...I just happen to take on the most. Maybe its my personality, maybe its a function of the fact that I get home earlier, I am not sure.  I think every marriage needs to have compromise though. Your husband (I am assuming) signed up for this marriage and chose to participate in the act of having children, so he needs to help where he can. Maybe you can make a chores/responsibility list to help lay everything out better and make the workload at home more even. I am sorry you are feeling like this...it is crappy, especially with a baby on the way soon.

ss265

How long have you guys been together? Has he always worked these types of hours or is it a recent thing? How engaged is he with the kids, you, home life when he is at home? Did you guys discuss work/life balance, household responsibilities before you got married?

I think the pre-marriage discussion question is key here and based on your post, it sounds like things might have changed. In that case, I would sit down and have a frank discussion on how many hours you are comfortable with him working. It's also not a matter of time spent working but also on how he spends his time with you and the kids when he is at home. How much earning potential is enough? To some people, earning less while being able to spend more time at home is preferable to working more hours for more pay. Does he realize that he could lose his family if he continues to work at this pace?

This sounds like a crappy situation to be in and I suspect that nervousness about adding a second child to the family are not helping (I am pregnant too and would have a similar reaction if DH suddenly came home and said that he had to work every Saturday going forward). Taking some time to digest the news and thinking about what you would be comfortable with is key.

 

MommyAtty

I'm a lawyer. I've worked for the federal government and I work for a very large corporation now. I've pretty darned high up in the food chain. I'm 12 years out of law school. 10 of those years were practicing law. (2 were doing a developmental assignment in my corporation where I still had some lawyer duties.) I work 8-5. Then, often, after the kids are in bed, I work more hours. BUT again, I'm high up in the food chain, so I'm overseeing other attorneys' work, doing career planning for those people, being a boss, and being part of the business team. (My subordinates don't have those extra responsibilities.) Recently, I made the decision not to do more than monitor email and respond to emergencies on weekends. Before, I had a nasty habit of responding to all emails. Oh, and I handle the vast majority of "let the cable guy in" type stuff because my job is more flexible than DH's. I can work from home if need be, and I'm truly salaried, which means if one week I work 35 hours instead of 40, no one gives a rip since far more often I'm working 60 hours without any overtime compensation. So your DH doesn't have a complete picture of the practice of law or is feeding you a load of bologna. Not all lawyers get to check out of home responsibilities, nor do we all work every weekend. Oh, and Big Law, home of the 7 year partnership track and slave hours, is never ever EVER going to take a solo practitioner with no big firm experience. I hire those guys on a daily basis. They are the world's biggest snobs when it comes to solo practitioners.

Amelia4

I'm in a similar situation to @PrivacyWanted. My husband and I are both attorneys.  I generally work 8-5:30 with some night/weekend work as it arises.  And some travel.  I probably average working part of one weekend a month. And perhaps have one overnight travel a month, though typically it's less than that. Of course, some cases mean I work every weekend and travel every week for a few months; that's rough, but thankfully rare. I'm in my 8th year of practice and am a partner now, and that hasn't changed workload much. I'm not in BigLaw, but rather at a medium-size firm in a medium-size city.  My hours are generally typical of where I am.

My husband is a self-employed attorney, having gone out on his own 4 years ago (wow, that's been longer than I thought!).  Before then, his hours were like mine.  Now he works maybe 1/2 day one weekend a month and is often only in the office from 8:45-4 or 4:30.  

We switch out the unplanned as well as the planned stuff.  The planned stuff is easier and I can actually get more done some days waiting for the cable guy. How much your husband needs to work depends on the market, the type of law, etc.  But it sounds like as his own boss he has more flexibility. He might just be so stressed about the need to make money that he works harder than you both would like.  Counseling sounds like a good idea.

Mustardseed2007

I am an attorney, albeit in house, which is basically a totally different world than what your H is living in. But I think @librarychica hit a lot of major points on the head.

Basically, there ARE other options in the field of law than working a bazillion hours. But those options won't ever be options for your H if he isn't interested.

I work 9-5 or 6 most days. I will be the first to admit that I kind of fell into a unique job and I love it. But the MAJORITY of the attorneys I know who worked for large or midsize firms have gone in house. That's partially b/c we're in an energy town so there are lots of opportunities to do that around here, and also partially b/c they weren't 'going to get what they were out of the partner track or they decided didn't care if they go it b/c they hated what they were doing (someone I know called it a "pie eating contest where the prize at the end is more pie")

But, is your H happy? You clearly aren't, and I don't blame you. And I also don't think that whether you knew this going in or not is even relevant. But is your H just doing what he's doing because it's what he thinks he has to do, or is he doing it because it's what he really wants to do. He might need to stop and have some moments of reflection to even answer that as well.

ppants

I'm a nuclear medicine technologist and DH is a self employed attorney and has been for 5 years now.  Our b/g twins are 8.  When he worked at another firm, he worked 40 hours/week and was home by 5 - 5:30 every night.  He wasn't getting anywhere at that firm though.  They cut his pay by 25% and he was already exploring other avenues when they pay cut came down. 

He became self employed with a staff of 4 over 5 years ago.  Last year, he took over another law practice since the sole pracitioner was headed to prison.  He works 55-60 hours/week.  He works from home at least a bit most weekends. 

I work PT now that the kids are in school so I get them to school and home from school after.  It was pretty stressful when I was working 40 hours/week and basically a single mom during that time as DH was working.  I also carry the health insurance for the family.

DH's job provided us the opportunity to build a new home.  He also provides employment for other people.  It comes with it's pluses and minuses for sure.  I try to email him any commitment I need him available for asap so his staff can put in on his work calendar.  He sometimes goes into work before the kids get up so he can be home before they get to bed.  It's a balancing act most days.

aglenn

My mom was an attorney who made partner at a big law firm while being a single parent to me and my brother.  Yes, she sometimes worked long hours but it was definitely not all the time. 

I think the two of you need to keep discussing this, whether in counseling or not.  I had a similar issue with DH and his travel after DS was born.  He was gone for weeks at a time and with two little kids and a long commute I was losing my  mind.  We talked about it a ton of times before anything happened, but eventually he agreed to just investigate other roles he could take with less travel.  It took him all of like 2 conversations to find a position within the same group at the same company with minimal travel that he actually likes better, and things fell into place.  I had to keep dogging the issue, though. 

aglenn

Also, I will say that in our case I think DH was a little embarrassed to bring up work life balance; it was kind of an ego thing.  He thought he'd be looked down on for saying he didn't want to travel and wanted to be able to be more active in the family.  The opposite actually ended up happening, though and people thank him for speaking up now.  Some did and do make negative comments but for the most part it has opened up some healthy dialogue in the group he used to be part of.

TheBorg7of9

I am an attorney at a big law firm.  I can tell you that I work about 8:30 to 5:30 in the office.  I always come home to put the kids to bed.  My DH does dinner before I get home.  I get home usually at 6:30 or 7, I do bath bed time for both kids.  My DH watches the first kid while I rock the second to sleep.  If I have to do extra work, which I often do, I do it while the kids are asleep -- so after 8pm and during afternoon naps on the weekend.  Another option is to get up early and work 5-10am on Saturdays and Sundays.  I have been so busy lately, I am even working 8-11 on Friday, Saturday and Sunday nights! It sucks, but I would still say I do more housework and kidwork than my husband.  

Also, Your DH will never be able to get a big law job.

He is wrong that no lawyers do the home stuff too.  I do it all the time.  And honestly, WTH does he know, having never worked at a firm or government job?

He is also wrong that no lawyer has a regular 8-6 job.  Plenty of us do.

dashofreality

Lawyer, work part-time. If this was a short-term thing where he is trying to start his new practice and needs to work that much to keep his head above water, ok (but horrible timing). But a lot of the things he is saying are just flat out wrong.

You really need to have a discussion on hours, and money. Can you afford for him to work less and take a paycut? Is it an option for right now? If not, is he willing to look at other opportunities?

I'm not going to lie, it was a huge adjustment for DH and I when we had our second. I know it isn't this way for everyone, but we felt like the work load increased 10 fold for awhile and we wondered what we did with all our free time when we only had one. I would start talking soon, before things get too overwhelming for you.

MickeyM04

I'm a lawyer and I'm married to a lawyer and I'm calling BULLSHIT.  Granted, I haven't made my billables since DS was born but whatever.  I am a defense attorney that works at your typical mid-sized firm, 2000 hour billable requirement, 100 attorneys.  DH is a plaintiff's attorney at a small firm of 3 attorneys.  Based on your husband's logic, we should be living in a slum since neither of us would be available to do anything around the house.  DH and I both take the kids to daycare together (albeit we drive separately) and then I take the earlier train to pick them up, and DH takes the next train and gets home about 2 minutes before us so he can start reheating dinner.  He bathes DD while I play with DS.  Then I nurse DD while he bathes DS and does his bedtime stuff.  Then while I'm still doing DD's bedtime stuff (she takes forever to get down after she eats), he makes our lunches, cleans bottles, cleans the playroom, etc.  Then when I'm done nursing DD, I make her bottles for the next day and deal with cleaning my pump parts.  It is completely a team effort.  Over the weekends, DH mows the lawn and does the outside "manly stuff," and I am in charge of laundry.  Cleaning is a team effort which if we do together, we are able to clean the entire house in about 1.5 hours. 

When I was on ML, I basically told him, I'm at home, I'm going to take on more since you're working full time.  So I did laundry, cleaning, cooking, etc. by myself for the most part because I had the extra time during the day when DD was napping and DS was at daycare.  But I said, once we are both full-time attorneys and full-time parents, everything gets split 50/50 to the extent it is possible.  I think to some extent there does have to be some give.  For example, if I was required to work Saturday mornings like some firms require, then DH would obviously have to be a single dad for Saturday mornings. But it would not fly in my house for me to say, I'm going to start working til 9pm every night and every weekend and you're just going to have to figure out a way to make it work with your job because someone needs to pick up the kids and make dinner and get them to bed and that's you.

You have a job too, yes?  So is he cool with you getting fired because you're the one who has to call off every time one of the kids is sick, every time someone has a doctor's appointment, every time the sump pump goes out and there's flooding/insert other household issue which requires a repairman to come during some obscene 6 hour call window?  If he is cool with it, then great, you should just quit now and stay at home and save yourself the headache.  If not, he needs to be an equal partner in your marriage.

I am so sorry you are dealing with this, especially with how pregnant you are.  Eesh. 

Edited because of reading comprehension fail.

Beevol

My best friend is an associate at a medium sized firm, she works 8:30-6pm M-F and sometimes has to bring work home, but she's on track to make partner and never had to work hours like that. She is not making bazillions of dollars but she certainly makes a very comfortable salary (such that her husband was a house-husband for a while and they were comfortable). 

TheBorg7of9

This also seems like the old debate of who's job is more important. I think all double income parents have this argument. But the lawyer doesn't automatically get to 'win'!

babynumerouno

I'm also an attorney at a Big Law outfit--1600 attorneys, 44 offices, 21 countries--and before that I was a fairly senior attorney at a government agency.  I'm also married to an attorney working in a very high profile, stressful job.  I, too, call BULLSHIT.

I don't know what the hell he's talking about, and I suspect, neither does he.  I don't get all of the crap home life work, and neither does he.  I could repeat the litany of good points others have made, but I'll spare the group the redundancy and just suggest that you suggest that maybe he's right.  I'll explain.  I know plenty of attorneys who don't do crap home life work and leave it all to their spouses.  But here's the difference.  Those spouses don't work.  That's the deal.  Because we ALL know that working at home is just as much a full-time job as working outside the home.  Those attorneys make so much money that they are willing to make a trade-off--they can go off into billable la-la-land, working late hours and being at every partner's side at every moment of the day, but their partner then is not stuck working a job and also working at home.  If your husband is looking for that arrangement, he needs to get the big $ law job (first, just in case he doesn't hook the Skadden Arps job on the first go), and then he can ask if you're willing to rearrange your life to do every. single. errand. he just doesn't want to do. 

Sept07b2b

Everyone else has already given great advice, so there is not much more I can add, but I just wanted to add that I am also a lawyer (so many of us - I'm sure there is a lawyer joke in there somewhere).  I worked in big law for 4 years before kids and worked insane hours. I now work 8:30-5 as an in-house attorney and virtually all of the associates in my class are all in government jobs or in-house positions and all work normal hours while still making good money and having high-profile jobs.  We all had kids around the same time and made the conscious decision that we wanted balance (which really does exist!).  

The idea that all attorneys work crazy hours and don't help around the house is total BS!  That would never fly for me, and it's a very close-minded view of the opportunities for lawyers.  

GreenMonkey1

Thanks, everyone, for all of your thoughts.  I am sorry I cannot individually reference everyone's comments as I simply lack the brain power right now.

It's good to hear from all the lawyers that what my DH keeps saying is "the truth" about being a lawyer is not necessarily actually the truth.  Makes me have some faith that what I am asking for (greater balance) is not completely out of bounds and that I don't have to choose balance over DH's career or vice versa. 

I don't think DH really knows what he is talking about - he lacks experience in anything other than self-employment and the places he clerked during law school.  His knowledge of the profession seems to be rather limited, which I understand - we only know what we know.  However, it seems like there is a point as an adult and as a professional that we bear a responsibility to have a greater understanding of our field as a whole.  He absolutely is not a candidate for Big Law, law school GPA was not high enough and he has no firm experience, but I also don't see him fitting Big Law well either.  So there really is no question of him going in that direction.  But there are a wealth of positions in law outside of being self-employed.

We really do not live high on the hog by any means.  I've told him that him cutting back on hours and being more available as a family is more important than me staying home in the near future.  There is no rush, especially if the rush = loss of sanity, damage to health, or damage to our marriage.  At the end of the day, none of that is worth me becoming a SAHM.  I told him if that was going to be the balance, he makes money and I take care of the house/kids - well, that's functionally spousal and child support. 

I've told DH that he seems to treat our balance like I SAH, except I do not.  Maybe it is an ego thing, maybe he is just not aware enough (that to me seems more likely).  Either way, I am just a tad deflated with my marriage at the moment and know it's not going to get better in the near future given the addition of DS #2.  Who knows, maybe he'll surprise me.

traveltheworld

babynumerouno said:

I'm also an attorney at a Big Law outfit--1600 attorneys, 44 offices, 21 countries--and before that I was a fairly senior attorney at a government agency.  I'm also married to an attorney working in a very high profile, stressful job.  I, too, call BULLSHIT.

I don't know what the hell he's talking about, and I suspect, neither does he.  I don't get all of the crap home life work, and neither does he.  I could repeat the litany of good points others have made, but I'll spare the group the redundancy and just suggest that you suggest that maybe he's right.  I'll explain.  I know plenty of attorneys who don't do crap home life work and leave it all to their spouses.  But here's the difference.  Those spouses don't work.  That's the deal.  Because we ALL know that working at home is just as much a full-time job as working outside the home.  Those attorneys make so much money that they are willing to make a trade-off--they can go off into billable la-la-land, working late hours and being at every partner's side at every moment of the day, but their partner then is not stuck working a job and also working at home.  If your husband is looking for that arrangement, he needs to get the big $ law job (first, just in case he doesn't hook the Skadden Arps job on the first go), and then he can ask if you're willing to rearrange your life to do every. single. errand. he just doesn't want to do. 

I totally agree with this. FWIW - I'm a fairly senior associate in BigLaw with a very transaction-based practice area, and to be frank, I'm often so stressed out from work and tired that I neither have the time nor the desire to do any of the "home" stuff. I spend all my free time focused on being with DS and DH. I don't clean, do laundry, or run errands. But neither do I expect DH to do it all of it either since he works FT (though much less stressful job). My salary allows us to out-source most of these things so that DH is not faced with doing it all himself. We are both happy with the arrangement.

If your DH thinks he can unload the bulk of the household stuff onto you, then he better be making enough $ to allow you to get outside help.

And no matter how busy you are, you can always find time for your kids. Like I said, I spend a great deal of time with DS. I work during naps, late at night, or on weekend morning while he sleeps. Most of the partners at my firm do the same.

VOR

MommyAtty said:

So your DH doesn't have a complete picture of the practice of law or is feeding you a load of bologna. Not all lawyers get to check out of home responsibilities, nor do we all work every weekend.

This is basically my reaction.  DH used to be an attorney and as such, we know many attorneys.  I really can't add anything that the other posters - who are actually attorneys- have covered.  But yeah... at it's simplest, your DH doesn't know what he's talking about OR he's just trying to get out of being an equal partner at home.

*sparky*

Not an attorney, but have been close friends with a few.  I think the profession is much like any other in that you can choose to let it consume your life or you can figure out a way to get the balance you need.  I worked in a Big 4 public actg firm, and the lifestyle is somewhat similar as far as billable hours, people trying to make partner, an "up or out" philosphy, etc.  Simlar to the legal profession, some firms will chew you up and spit you out faster than others, and I got out of Big 4 when we were ready to start a family because I knew I could not sustain the lifestyle with small children.

There were certainly those who tried to be involved on every high profile engagement, traveled and worked all of the time, did all of the conferences, etc.  And then there were those who strove for a better balance and were still successful but maybe not striving for Managing Partner. 

Of the self employed attorneys I know, one brings her LO to the office with her one day a week when she is not going to be in court, and one goes into the office late before dropping his kids off at DC so he can spend some time with them in the mornings.  Both are definitely equal partners in their home life.

I agree you need to have a sit down with your DH.  What are his goals, if he needs to work weekends, is it forever, or for a period of time, and how do you work it so it interferes with family life less?  And what are your expectations of him as a parent to two children? 

 When my DS was little, I had to work Saturdays in January and half of February, and I would get up at 5 am, be in the office by 6, and home by 1-ish so I did not blow the whole Saturday in the office.  When I still had work to do in the evenings, I would do it after DS went to bed.

Also, as someone else suggested outsource whatever you can.  Finally, it helped my DH see the light when I started putting things to paper.  I created a daily list and a longer term list of things that needed to be done and he actually started participating.  But if he gets home, and the house looks pretty reasonable and no one's screaming, then he assumes all is well and he will just chill out.  Even if there are dishes to wash, lunches to pack, etc.  He just doesn't even think about it.  If the list is there, he will start right away.