Special Needs

Asperger's and new baby

Hi ladies. I've lurked a little bit, but hopefully this is not a duplicate question.

Background - I have 3 kids, a boy and 2 girls. DS will be 9 tomorrow and we believe he has Asperger's Syndrome. He does not have an official medical diagnosis yet, but the school did their own evaluation and he falls under their ASD umbrella. From the research I've done and information I've been given he sounds relatively mild, but there are still things we have to work around. His primary issues are social/emotional, but his sensitivities and "quirks" have become more pronounced as he's gotten older.

In Nov. we'll be adding a new baby sister to the mix and I'm not sure how he'll take it. He was 5 when DD2 was born and took it in stride, but as I said some things are more pronounced now than they were then. His sensitivity to sound and dependence on routine are the two things I'm most concerned about. LO is due Nov 2nd, fairly close to Thanksgiving break which is a time we generally start to run into problems at school. Our theory has been that the break in routine has been what's disturbing him and we're going to be adding an unpredictable baby at almost the same time. Ah!

Noise is also an issue. DS and LO will have rooms next to each other and sound carries easily through the wall. I'm not too concerned about LO waking him (he could sleep through a nuclear attack once he's really out) but I am worried about the opposite. I've read that many Aspies have no concept of how loud they are to others and that is most definitely true for him. What really worries me is the potential for a feedback loop from hell; He wakes baby, baby cries, he starts yelling about baby yelling, and I pull all my hair out.

Also, DS does not like other kids his age or younger and heavily prefers adult interaction. I'm worried that he will resent LO for taking away his adult time. And it's not like I can force a newborn to stick to his schedule every single day. He's not necessarily focused on time yet, so maybe once LO is in a routine I can adjust DS's routine, but if a time-specific thing (like his favorite show, etc) intrudes on it that could be bad.

So basically I guess what I'm asking is if anyone has any experience with these issues, or if you ladies can point me in the right direction on how to handle these issues?

TIA!

_____________________________________________
Married 6/16/01
Eeney 7/24/05
Meeney 3/23/07
Miney 9/15/10
Mo 11/4/14 
Wait, What?!? - EDD 11/1/19
Mothers get 1 day off

Re: Asperger's and new baby

  • Is he doing any social skills therapy?
    Or RDI/ABA/Floortime?
    I would start now with doing the RDI approach of 'just noticeable differences' and strengthening his ability to handle change.
    This could be using the blue cup instead of the green, switching up the dinner seating arrangement, doing 2 stories instead of 1 (or 1 instead of 2), basically any small changes you can make to his normal routine to help make him realize that he can handle change and you trust him to handle it.
    As for the noise issue, get a good white noise machine for the nursery and keep it on and turned up when baby is sleeping, it should help blend out big brother being loud and get the baby used to noise when sleeping.
    As for the time and attention thing, this is going to be tricky but I would start with books/shows that address having a new baby. This is a common issue for families so I imagine you can find one that is on his level and the two of you could read it together.
    Also make regular plans with him once the baby is here for the two of you to do things he likes (Legos/video games/whatever) while Dad watches the baby and vice versa. Then when he is wanting attention you can remind him, when the baby naps we'll do x, when dad gets home we'll do y.
    And find things you can do while tending the baby. If he likes drawing put baby in a sling/ergo and sit and draw, if he loved being outside wear the baby and go out to the park. There are plenty of hands free activities you can do with him while wearing the baby and then when baby needs to be fed you can tell him 'time out while baby eats then we'll play some more'
    Warning No formatter is installed for the format bbhtml
  • -auntie- said:
    meeshybee said:

    Hi ladies. I've lurked a little bit, but hopefully this is not a duplicate question.

    Welcome.

    This topic does come up from time to time, but I believe the situation where adding to the family with a nine on spectrum is new to this group. It's come up lots of times on other groups.

    Background - I have 3 kids, a boy and 2 girls. DS will be 9 tomorrow and we believe he has Asperger's Syndrome. He does not have an official medical diagnosis yet, but the school did their own evaluation and he falls under their ASD umbrella.

    Is there some reason you have not verified the school's findings with a medical evaluation? At nine a dev pedi and clinical psych  eval could be very useful to have. For starters, it would confirm that the school's assessment is accurate and complete. It would also give you an expert to help you parent him more effectively.  It would also create a paper trail for benefits should he need SSI in the future. Only about 85% of those with an Aspergers dx are employed full time as adults.

      

    From the research I've done and information I've been given he sounds relatively mild, but there are still things we have to work around. His primary issues are social/emotional, but his sensitivities and "quirks" have become more pronounced as he's gotten older.

    Social and emotional immaturity and communication are the core deficits of ASD. It's interesting his sensory issues are more pronounced. In most kids I know, senory seems to peak around 4-6 and improve even without OT to address it. Do you think it's worse overall, or is it just worse compared to the expectations one would have for a typical nine and in comparison to his sisters who are younger but presumably NT?

    This used to be a common age to get an Asperger dx (will be ASD now- Aspergers no longer exists in the DSM-5 as an option) because so many kids who previously seemed different but not impacted hit the wall.

    It's sounds like the bigger issue here is his rigid behavior and inability to be OK when things aren't as he would prefer or expect. That's a biggie. DS's psychologist would say that this is Job One for success and indenedence as an adult- not high IQ or academic prowess. I was talking to the grandmother of a young man on spectrum who is home from college after his freshman year- he was not successful because he was rigid about the rules other kids broke, the noise they made, etc.- it became his focus and he blew it academically after having aced high school. 

    I wonder if what you are attributing to "sensory" is really behavior. It's a concern because his peers at school are about to take a quantum leap in maturity in terms of the complexity and sophistication of their social interactions. This is the age during which well developing kids become hard wired for conformity- they will start to be wary of those who are different. My own DS has Aspergers, along with ADHD, dyslexia and GAD. 4th grade was simply the 9th circle of hell. What really helped DS was a combination of meaningful IEP interventions (I'm bigger on interventions than accommodations), medication and cognitive behavior therapy. 

    In Nov. we'll be adding a new baby sister to the mix and I'm not sure how he'll take it. He was 5 when DD2 was born and took it in stride, but as I said some things are more pronounced now than they were then. His sensitivity to sound and dependence on routine are the two things I'm most concerned about. LO is due Nov 2nd, fairly close to Thanksgiving break which is a time we generally start to run into problems at school. Our theory has been that the break in routine has been what's disturbing him and we're going to be adding an unpredictable baby at almost the same time. Ah!

    What sort of issues do you have with school? What kind of services does he get there?

    It would be better to get him to go along to get along- the rest of the world won't change to accommodate his need for routine and quiet. Alan Sohn's book might be a good place to start. 

    https://www.amazon.com/Parenting-Your-Asperger-Child-Individualized/dp/0399530703

    Noise is also an issue. DS and LO will have rooms next to each other and sound carries easily through the wall. I'm not too concerned about LO waking him (he could sleep through a nuclear attack once he's really out) but I am worried about the opposite. I've read that many Aspies have no concept of how loud they are to others and that is most definitely true for him. What really worries me is the potential for a feedback loop from hell; He wakes baby, baby cries, he starts yelling about baby yelling, and I pull all my hair out.

    I can understand your concern. It might make sense to start a behavioral approach to solving this potential problem. Does he get any RDI or Social Thinking support that would help him understand the situation with babies who cry and how to respond appropriately? If it were me, that would be something to work on now. 

    How does he do with his sibs now? Is he warm and engaged with them or is he the more HFA personality where he truly wishes life would be grand if he's been an only?

    DS had a classmate in middle school with Aspergers. He was the oldest of 3 and while he found his brothers a little annoying at time, he was quite protective of them. HIs mom had an "oopsie" (her words, not mine) when he was in 8th grade. He fell hard- he is devoted to his little sister. LOL he chose his classes at the community college so he could still drive her to school before.

    Also, DS does not like other kids his age or younger and heavily prefers adult interaction. I'm worried that he will resent LO for taking away his adult time. And it's not like I can force a newborn to stick to his schedule every single day. He's not necessarily focused on time yet, so maybe once LO is in a routine I can adjust DS's routine, but if a time-specific thing (like his favorite show, etc) intrudes on it that could be bad.

    Why doesn't he like other kids? 

    One problem with kids who have an Aspergers like presentation is that they don't see themselves as children. Unless this is addressed, he'll miss out of the gift of real friends and all the good stuff that comes with being part of a group. This mindset can also be part of the antecedent to behavior issues in school- not acting like a kid not only is off putting to teachers and students alike. Kids who are seen as loners at the intermediate and middle school levels are at increased risk of bullying and the anxiety/depression that can trigger. 

    That said. It's better that he would learn to roll with an interuption to his routine. If I was presented with your situation, I would look for a medical dx and a psychologist familiar with kids on the higher functioning end of the spectrum to work on helping him be more resillient. I'd also be certain his IEP included some social thinking with the school's SLP in a small group.

    So basically I guess what I'm asking is if anyone has any experience with these issues, or if you ladies can point me in the right direction on how to handle these issues?

    TIA!

    Two other thoughts.

    Even if he is on spectrum, Aspergers is no longer a dx option. He missed that boat by 2 years. If he does get a medical dx it will be ASD.

    The term "aspie" is offensive to some. I'm OK with adults who have the dx using it to self identify. Many feel it trivializes a condition that can be very challenging to those impacted by autism. It's not cute.



    Because of his age our insurance will not cover the evaluation. We are trying to save up for it. So far we've been quoted about $900, which is astronomical for us right now.

    His social/emotional deficits are by far the biggest problems overall, but he is definitely more sensitive to sounds than he was at age 5. Although I have started to wonder if this is a learned feedback loop - a more minor sensitivity that he has learned to exaggerate to get more interaction from adults. He can be very manipulative like that. He has also only recently developed an aversion to crunchy foods, like peanuts and raw carrots. He had no problems with those even last year. Totally came out of the blue.

    We held DS back in 1st grade because, although he technically passed, we felt he was not ready for the increased workload of 2nd grade and we are very very glad we did. He'll be starting 3rd grade next month.

    The biggest problems at school are him staying focused and transitions. He also has personal space issues and gets OT at school for fine and gross motor delays, although the fine motor will probably stop this coming year since he's pretty much caught up there. He gets one or two "breaks" from the classroom to help with frustration (he has an obvious social interaction quota and needs a 20 or so minute break to reset it) and goes to small group instruction during that time. This year that will include a social group.

    I've never heard of RDI or Social Thinking support, so I'll have to look into those. One of the problems we have is that he can understand a rule/expectation intellectually (and be able to point out others who break it) but will have a meltdown when the same rule/expectation is applied to him.

    He would be perfectly content to have his sisters disappear, and yes, they are both NT. He used to be very possessive of DD1 (17 months younger) but has gotten more distant in the last few years. He mostly ignored DD2 (5 years younger) until she was mobile, and then it was pretty obvious he didn't like her. I think that's at least partly due to the fact that she is an extremely active kid. I often joke that she's all the boy he never was. All that being said, this summer he has played cooperatively with DD1 and even a little with DD2. That is a huge step for him and hopefully a sign that he's maturing a little bit.

    We're not sure why he doesn't like other kids. One of our theories is that younger kids are too unpredictable for him, and therefore he prefers more predictable teens or adults. Another theory is that there's no benefit that he can see to having friends his age, whereas adults can get/do things for him (help with schoolwork, give him computer time, take him out of the classroom, etc). Like I said, he can be manipulative. Although, sometimes he will want to play and it's obvious he just doesn't know how to initiate it. He refuses to just go and ask to play.

    Most of the time he flat out ignores other kids, or anyone he doesn't view as "of use" for that matter. He has only learned the name of two classmates, ever. One was another SN student he was often paired with and the other was  "Harmony... she's pretty." Oddly, if his teacher said "Give this to Jimmy." he'd have no problem doing it but if she asked him "What's his name?" he'd have trouble.

    I had no idea "Aspie" was offensive. Sorry! Thanks for telling me.

    Hopefully I can find a job soon and DH is probably getting a promotion this fall and then we can get on board with the dx. Thanks so much for the input!

    _____________________________________________
    Married 6/16/01
    Eeney 7/24/05
    Meeney 3/23/07
    Miney 9/15/10
    Mo 11/4/14 
    Wait, What?!? - EDD 11/1/19
    Mothers get 1 day off

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  • I have no idea what the social group will be like, other than 3rd-5th graders with similar issues will be in it. His ESE teacher last year only handled through K-2, so I'll have to talk to the 3-5 ESE teacher when school starts.

    The closest teaching hospital is an hour away in the next state, but I will definitely ask around about sibling studies. In have been asking about sibling resources for my girls, but no one has been able to point me to anything yet.

    As far as sounds, it does seem to be linked to his familiarity with the environment. If it's an unfamiliar place he is a lot more likely to react to noise so anxiety probably is a factor.

    I have said several times that he's roughly on par with his 3 yr old sister emotionally. The social part is probably fairly accurate too, but since their personalities are so drastically different it's hard to tell for sure. His 7 yr old sister is my social butterfly, although he hasn't shown any signs that he cares about that at all. Unfortunately, she doesn't really try to hide the fact that she resents some of his behaviors and the things we have to do to deal with them. It was hard on her to switch schools last year because the school district moved his services. She's the main reason I'm trying to find classes or other things for siblings.

    _____________________________________________
    Married 6/16/01
    Eeney 7/24/05
    Meeney 3/23/07
    Miney 9/15/10
    Mo 11/4/14 
    Wait, What?!? - EDD 11/1/19
    Mothers get 1 day off

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