*Update* Is this "normal" or concerning? **Trigger warning**

Mags748

***Update - I also consulted with my cousin who is an RN in a pediatrics office and she called for me and CPS will investigate. I haven't heard anything from my friend yet and not sure if I will. And yes, I was gone/busy all day with Father's Day plans and such which is why I didn't update until now.***

My friend has a son and daughter around the age of my DS and DD (her son is almost 6, daughter is 2.5). We had a joint rummage sale at her house and the kids were inside watching a movie. I went in for one of the frequent check-ins, and her daughter was laying across her son's lap and he was sticking his finger in her butt crack (clothed at least) and rubbing it back and forth. I said "what are you doing?" and told him that was not appropriate. My son said he was also rubbing her butt and spanking her. 

So I went out and told my friend. I was like "so I walked in and _______(her DD) was on top of_________(her DS)..." And then she cut me off and said "was he humping her?" I said no and explained what I saw. Almost even more concerning than the behavior was her response. She said that he is very "sensual" and tries to hump her daughter and other girls. She said her husbands thoughts are kind of that "boys will be boys" and she said, "at least he only does it to girls". I kind of made light of my horror and just said, "yeah, just tell him if he needs to hump something, do it to his stuffed animals in the privacy of his own room."

WTF? He is not a dog, he's a kid. My son has never tried to hump or do anything inappropriate to DD or other girls that I am aware of. I know kids can start exploring their own sexuality at a young age, and I definitely don't think they should be shamed about it. However, they need to be taught what is socially appropriate. I have told my son before, and I just reminded him again that it's okay for him to touch himself in private, but not to touch others, let others touch him, or let others see him touching him self. I questioned him about what his friend was doing, and he totally understood it was inappropriate.

Am I jumping too far ahead of myself in thinking this could lead to him sexually abusing their daughter if they don't deal with it more seriously?

NotSharknado

The boy's behavior is concerning. The parent's response is alarming.

NotSharknado

Some kids do explore at an early age but they need to be taught boundaries.

RondackHiker

That seems really concerning.

chevronseven

Agree with @NotSharknado‌ . Very very concerning. That type of behavior does not come naturally to kids that young, which means he has been exposed to it in some way. Whether he saw someone doing it (IRL or on TV) or (God forbid) it has been done to him, I don't know. But there is absolutely nothing normal about that situation. I would also be worried about his sister just letting him do it and not having been taught not to let people touch her like that. I don't think you're off base at all thinking it could lead to sexual abuse. Honestly if I knew you I would have to call DHS because I'm a "mandatory reporter" as a preschool teacher. I would suggest you do so anonymously.

NotSharknado

Yeah I'm worried about his sister. This could go further. Any father I know would not be okay with their daughter being touched like that. He gives off some red flags.

Mags748

I don't know if she deals with it more seriously and was just kind of embarrassed and didn't know what to say to me? I kind of didn't get that impression though. If she had come out and told me my son was doing that, I would have marched right in there and had a big discussion with him. She didn't go say anything to him at all.

We are pretty good/close friends in some ways because of our common interests, but then sometimes I really question her beliefs and judgement about some things, especially parenting related. Some are not a big deal, just not typical or preferred. Then there are things like I just found out yesterday as well that her 2.5 year old is already in a booster seat. I wasn't sure of the WI law so I didn't say anything, but I just looked it up and a 5 point harness is required for kids under 4 and/or under 40 lbs in WI. So not only is it not safe, its also illegal. 

Mags748

LovelyRitaMeterMaid said:

That is what you would call sexually reactive behavior. And he has learned that somewhere. It sounds to me like there already has been abuse, honestly.

That was in the back of my mind, but I didn't want to go there. Do I bring this up to her? (I think I already know the answer, I just don't want to have this conversation.)

RondackHiker

If she knew about it and was dealing with it seriously, she wouldn't have left them alone together.

I wouldn't talk to her. Her response is off.

I'd call CPS.

ShakeyJakey

I'm not an expert but I would consider that not normal.

Was the younger sister wearing a diaper or undies when he was rubbing her?

Mags748

OK, I need to take tonight to think about this and what exactly I am going to do, but you guys are making it even more obvious to me that something is really off here.

ShakeyJakey

What's most concerning is the dismissive reaction from the dad. "Boys will be boys" would be mine or SOs reaction to holding hands or sneaking kisses at 6. Not "sensual" and "humping". Sadly, I'd bet his dad is where is is coming from (based on his response) and I would also call anonymously.

When/if your friend comes to you I would be supportive but ask questions-what does his dad think, how often does this happen, etc. Is the boy in school or pre-k? Is he having issues there?

If my friend came to me with what you did, after going inside to break it up, I would be taking them BOTH to a pedi for a check up and not leaving them alone together or with anyone else. The fact that your friend didn't bat an eyelash is very, very concerning. She may also be being manipulated. Please help those kids and call.

ASmallWonder

Holy hell, not normal.  Even if she didn't think it was SUCH a big deal as to really deal with him, the fact that is so blase as to leave her daughter and other people's children alone with him is SO fucked up.  SO.  I agree with others that there is enough reason to suspect abuse and something needs to be done.  Unfortunately, she's going to know it's you if CPS shows up at her door since this just happened and you talked about it.

ShakeyJakey

My son does "spank" people, like his dad, but doesn't know what a spanking actually his, just butt pats. I hope something got lost in translation but I'd rather be safe than sorry.

Mags748

Whitney101411 said:

(Lurking) This is so strange. As a teacher I've seen odd behavior from students and have had to have strange discussions with parents, but none of them have gone this way. This concerns me. DD didn't react to this? DS was casually doing this? M knew about it and let her two children alone in the house? How long were they alone? This weirds me out.

DD didn't react, it was casual, he was kind of laughing I think. It was all 4 children in the room. My son said he didn't touch my daughter (or my son either) thankfully, but I definitely wasn't comfortable leaving them out of my site with him after that.

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flyingsaucer

As a teacher for many years, I can say that I have never met a "sensual" 6 year old or heard of a parent that believes their young child might be. The use of that word, alone, to describe a young child is way inappropriate. I agree with PPs. The boy needs help, and the sister is being abused, and the mom is putting others at risk. Please call CPS, and stay away from that family

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NotSharknado

As a mother, I find it very weird that the mom allows her daughter to be subjected to this. If this were my son, I'd be watching DD like a hawk. She's more than just in denial. It's almost as if she's okay with this. Why is she okay with this????

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Mags748

Ugh, I literally feel sick to my stomach now. There is still a part of me that wants to believe I don't know the whole story and am just reading too much into it. 

My friend can be pretty oblivious to things (like having no clue or worries about car seat safety as mentioned above), so part of me is thinking that could be the case with this. Being her friend, I would like to talk to her first to see if she reacts and then call CPS if/when she doesn't. I do understand where everyone is coming from saying go straight to CPS but I would like to avoid that if she will take me seriously and do the right thing. 

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Mags748

MrsGiantPenis said:

Also, if you are at all even questioning if this is abuse. If you feel like you are incredibly close to this person so you feel you would already know if abuse was happening. Please believe it is easy to hide. Two week before I told my mom I was being sexually abused there was a huge story in the news about a girl who was. My mom found herself thinking about what person in my life could potentially do that. She thought of friends dads, bus driver, random people in town. Not once did the thought that my step dad was sexually abusing me every night for years ever enter her mind. When I finally told, her, and everyone that knew us was shocked. He was an awesome dad in their eyes. No one had a clue, not even my mom. So please believe, even if you feel like you are so close with this person and you would already know. No matter how close, it can happen without anyone knowing. You need to call CPS.

I'm so sorry you went through that.

chevronseven

I know it's gotta be hard to go behind your friend's back like that, but honestly talking to her about it ahead of time could make things worse. Whoever is doing the abusing could coach the kids on what to say or not to say whenever someone comes to investigate. I am in the call CPS immediately club.

Mags748

I hear all of you, and I understand the severity of this. I also know that anyone had any concerns about my children, I would want it investigated fully.

uconnhuskie007 I'm not trying to make excuses of for her, just saying it is a possibility. For all I know from her reaction, it could also be her that is the abuser or she could be covering for her husband.

I am going to bed now, but I will call or have someone call for me tomorrow. I will keep you guys updated.

RondackHiker

I'm glad you'll call. Please don't change your mind.

ShakeyJakey

If CPS doesn't think they need to be removed/be investigated, they won't waste your time. That is not up to you anymore. It's up to them.

chevronseven

Very glad you're calling. If it makes you feel better, removal is not usually the first line of defense. They'll investigate first and figure out the best course of action.

Topi-Jan

   

TyrannosaurusLex said:

Mags748 said:

Ugh, I literally feel sick to my stomach now. There is still a part of me that wants to believe I don't know the whole story and am just reading too much into it. 

My friend can be pretty oblivious to things (like having no clue or worries about car seat safety as mentioned above), so part of me is thinking that could be the case with this. Being her friend, I would like to talk to her first to see if she reacts and then call CPS if/when she doesn't. I do understand where everyone is coming from saying go straight to CPS but I would like to avoid that if she will take me seriously and do the right thing. 

No, I'm sorry, but your friend is incapable of doing an assessment on her children to determine whether or not they have been exposed to sexual abuse. Not only that, she's incapable of separating appropriate from inappropriate behaviour. She needs education and help just as much. 

You need to keep these children safe. I'm sorry the burden is on you now but that's the way it is, and you're an adult and can do something. It's your job. Being a grown up is hard and uncomfortable and sad sometimes. This is going to be one of the hardest calls you ever make but you're going to have to do it. You cannot go on letting those children be abused/abuse one another. 

I know you want to think that this is just a case of her being clueless or them being a different sort of family, but many of the people in this thread telling you how serious it is are a combination of professionals who sadly deal with this on a regular basis and adults who were abused themselves as children. You must listen to our words, they are coming from knowledge and experience. This is a 5 alarm situation. This is happening and it's real. You are going to lose them as friends, yes. Their family will be busy in therapy and healing for a while to come anyways. 

This.  All of this.  Please call CPS.

ShakeyJakey

I'm glad you're going to call and I'm sorry you're in this situation. Being an adult sucks.

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Lolalipsy

If you're wrong, then so be it. Atleast you will have done the right thing. I know which scenario I would rather live with.

As for upsetting your friend, if I were in your shoes I would be breaking contact with the family all together anyway. I wouldn't leave anything to chance. Not when it comes to protecting my child.

ASmallWonder

I would rather lose a friend because I was wrong than find out I didn't do something to save two little kids. I know it sucks OP but calling is the right thing.

Spin313

kgopel said:

As a teacher for many years, I can say that I have never met a "sensual" 6 year old or heard of a parent that believes their young child might be. The use of that word, alone, to describe a young child is way inappropriate.

This. The way the mom brushed it off is super uppercase CREEPY. Maybe it's just something the boy observed his dad doing to his mom (and not something "abuse" related), but the fact that he hasn't been taught boundaries and is allowed to touch his sister in that manner is putting both children at risk.

Call CPS and keep your kids away/under strict supervision from this boy.

74dragonfly

OP, I read this last night. I can't stop thinking about it. It isn't normal. I know you are in a sucky position but those kids need help. As for your friendship honestly I could never be friendswith her after this. I would never want my kids around her kids or the parents. The kids are so young. Please help them

LnR70707

What a horrible situation.  I have no personal or professional background in child abuse, but this just screams it to me.  Even if the kid was just humping people and objects because he thought it was funny, it shouldn't get dismissed as okay because he is a boy.  I hope they get the help they need quickly.

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LaurelBee

I'm so so sad for those kids And OP, I'm so sorry you were put in that situation. Please PM if you need to vent about it, I'm happy to offer support.

I also wouldn't dump the friendship right away either. If there is abuse, the mom might be totally ignorant of the fact and might need your friendship when everything comes to light. However, I would hesitate to have playgroups until the little boy gets the help he needs. Hugs lady.

hilalk

I mostly lurk but wanted to see if the OP called. Not yet... I hope you call soon, I have been thinking about those poor kids all day long.

chevronseven

@Mags748‌ Any updates?