Dog Rehoming--help me formulate a coherent response to this...

cyprissa

So, this was posted on a local list that I am active on and I am struggling to express that the "ideal farm" does not exist in reality without being a twat because this is potentially someone local who I might meet IRL. 

Here's the post:

My husband adopted a large dog (70 lb. pyrenees/Aus. shepherd mix ) from Lost Dog rescue when he was single and living alone.We are now a family of three (including a 9 month old baby) and grappling with how to care properly for the dog (and ourselves) while working full time and caring for our daughter. 

The dog is now 7 years old- he is sweet and well-intentioned but poorly trained (ie 'gives paw' when not asked, barks at any and every truck that passes, jumps on strangers etc.) Since my husband and I got together a few years ago, this has been an issue for me and we took steps to work with a trainer but the dog remained unresponsive to my commands and must be told multiple times to do a behavior before obeying. The point is that now we have a baby, we live in a tiny rowhouse without a yard, and we both work full time. My husband admits that 1. we can't keep up with the dirt the dog brings into the house; 2. he has not taken the proper steps to try to retrain the dog or hire another trainer; and 3.since our daughter arrived, we haven't had time to exercise the dog to the extent that he needs it. Since he was a rescue that was given back to the shelter by two other families before my husband brought him home, he feels a strong obligation to remain as the dog's caretaker, yet I just don't feel like we are giving the dog the best home he could have. If there was a place such as a farm where the dog could roll in the dirt and play outside all day, I think my husband would potentially consider letting him go, but I just wanted to see if anyone had suggestions. I figured I'm not the first parent who has faced the constraint of how to care for a dog needing lots of attention once a baby is added to the mix. I am trying to think beyond dog walkers and house cleaners and consider long term well-being.

cyprissa

But they are specifically asking for advice?? So how is the MYOB? 

CinemaGoddess

I would tell her to do what's best for family, but it is likely the dog will not go to an "ideal farm".  

It would be better if she called the shelter and found out what the deal was with rehoming.  Since your husband was the third person to take this dog, I would assume that this dog will have difficulties being rehomed. 

I would also ask how long they're planning on staying the rowhome and if they have plans to move to a larger property in the near future.  

phunkyphish

That makes me sad I wonder if they have considered Doggie Daycare? All day playtime, nice walks, no dirt? 

RondackHiker

A large seven year old dog? He's a senior. He's got next to no chance.

What dirt is the dog bringing in exactly?

I'd want to know why she's giving commands multiple times.
Give it, enforce it. Otherwise she's the problem.

I'd suggest a dog walker a few times a week and wiping the dog's paws when he comes inside, plus a regular groomer.

She can look into great pyr rescues. In general the perfect farm home doesn't exist... But it sometimes does for great pyrs.

Where in general is the dog located?

jorkz821

That's so sad. Agree that the dog is getting old - rehoming is unlikely.

Doggy daycare and dog walkers are a great idea though honestly it sounds like she's already made up her mind.

LnR70707

RondackHiker said:

A large seven year old dog? He's a senior. He's got next to no chance. What dirt is the dog bringing in exactly? I'd want to know why she's giving commands multiple times. Give it, enforce it. Otherwise she's the problem. I'd suggest a dog walker a few times a week and wiping the dog's paws when he comes inside, plus a regular groomer. She can look into great pyr rescues. In general the perfect farm home doesn't exist... But it sometimes does for great pyrs. Where in general is the dog located?

Really? It pretty common for many dogs (particularly one trained with a single owner first) to see one owner as the alpha and not listen as well to anyone else.  Our dog is 10, k-9 trained and I still have to repeat commands all the damn time if he doesn't want to listen.  He has gotten much better in the 3 years I've been a SAHM, but "enforcing" a 73lb dog to do something he doesn't want (like go outside to pee when it is raining) is not easy.

RondackHiker

LnR70707 said:

RondackHiker said:

A large seven year old dog? He's a senior. He's got next to no chance.

What dirt is the dog bringing in exactly?

I'd want to know why she's giving commands multiple times.
Give it, enforce it. Otherwise she's the problem.

I'd suggest a dog walker a few times a week and wiping the dog's paws when he comes inside, plus a regular groomer.

She can look into great pyr rescues. In general the perfect farm home doesn't exist... But it sometimes does for great pyrs.

Where in general is the dog located?

Really? It pretty common for many dogs (particularly one trained with a single owner first) to see one owner as the alpha and not listen as well to anyone else.  Our dog is 10, k-9 trained and I still have to repeat commands all the damn time if he doesn't want to listen.  He has gotten much better in the 3 years I've been a SAHM, but "enforcing" a 73lb dog to do something he doesn't want (like go outside to pee when it is raining) is not easy.



Just no to a whole lot of your post.

I've got an 80 pound dog that was raised and trained by dh. He listens to me. And to DS. And to any random kid on the playground. No one in our home is "alpha". He doesn't listen because I'm "dominant". I don't like dominance theory training.

CinemaGoddess

I think LR was talking about the dog's original owner, not the hierarchy within it's current home.  the OP said her DH is the dog's third owner.  

I could be wrong, though.  

LnR70707

@CinemaGoddess is right, I was mainly trying to point out that this woman should not immediately be deemed the "problem" if this dog has years of training with an "alpha" pattern, whether you believe in it or not.  Dogs are pack animals, you are either inferior to them or dominant over them.  I'm not saying rehoming is right here, but it isn't always an easy training fix either.

I am thrilled that some of you have such obedient dogs that have no strong desires of their own ever. 

amaseya

Of they insist on getting rid of the dog, he needs to go back to the rescue he came from. I've done rescue in the past, and even though I've curtailed much of it since lo has been born, I'd still take back one of the animals I placed in a heartbeat. That being said, she doesn't really sound like a dog person. I've got five of them, a cat, and two birds, and I don't plan in rehoming anyone. I may threaten to on occasion, but I'd never do it. It's tough having a baby and working full time and caring for animals, but we do the best we can.

RondackHiker

LnR70707 said:

@CinemaGoddess is right, I was mainly trying to point out that this woman should not immediately be deemed the "problem" if this dog has years of training with an "alpha" pattern, whether you believe in it or not.  Dogs are pack animals, you are either inferior to them or dominant over them.  I'm not saying rehoming is right here, but it isn't always an easy training fix either.

I am thrilled that some of you have such obedient dogs that have no strong desires of their own ever. 

As t-lex said, the dominance/alpha dog theory (seen popularly with C. Milan but also with countless other trainers) is no longer considered accurate. I don't believe in its accuracy (obviously the theory itself exists so I have to believe that) and I don't believe it is an effective training method. I actually believe that it's ineffective and tends to be harmful and can be far more dangerous than many other training methods in the wrong hands, especially with tools like alpha rolling involved.

My current dog, you're right, doesn't really have strong desires. He's a lab, and kind of a kind-hearted dimwit, who gets a ton of exercise and attention and his training is refreshed daily with positive reinforcement. He's just an easy boy. I've worked with a lot of dogs over the years, from puppies to seniors. These dogs were trained using all kinds of methods (or just not trained at all). And guess what? Even if started with other training methods, they still responded well to positive reinforcement and some negative reinforcement (usually a sharp voice or tug at the leash).  Retraining isn't always easy, because learning can take time, especially if the bad behavior has become a habit. 

But I stand by what I said. If she is repeating commands multiple times to get the dog to listen, there is something wrong and it is likely her. The vast majority of the time when I go to help an owner struggling with a dog who is ignoring them, it is the fault of the owner. Perhaps the dog wasn't actually taught the command. Perhaps the dog has learned to tune the owner out because of the repitition. Perhaps the dog isn't motivated to listen, and needs to be motivated (I prefer using positive reinforcement to motivate).

It's kind of like getting your kid ready in the morning. You can BE IN CHARGE and demand your kid gets this shirt and those pants and those shoes on NOW NOW NOW. Or you can give the kid some choices in the clothes and the order and things still get done and the child is still obeying and listening but it's usually much faster and much more pleasant for all involved.

CinemaGoddess

I have no dog in this fight. Natch.

Maebb

My ILs had an old dog that had been used as a helper/companion dog for my BIL who has CP, and they gave her to a farm when she was around 9.

My brother works on a farm with two Pyrenees mixes, and he might consider taking another one, even if it required some training.

My point being - I don't see why you think it's so unlikely or inconceivable that the dog could go to a farm. I also think that unless you're offering to help or if the dog is in danger of abuse (which it sounds like it's not), I don't really know why you would need to get involved.

RondackHiker

Maebb said:

My ILs had an old dog that had been used as a helper/companion dog for my BIL who has CP, and they gave her to a farm when she was around 9.

My brother works on a farm with two Pyrenees mixes, and he might consider taking another one, even if it required some training.

My point being - I don't see why you think it's so unlikely or inconceivable that the dog could go to a farm. I also think that unless you're offering to help or if the dog is in danger of abuse (which it sounds like it's not), I don't really know why you would need to get involved.

I said earlier that this dog's only hope is that it is a great pyr.

But really? Chances ARE slim. The number of dogs who want good farm homes and the number of good farm homes that want dogs aren't equal by a long shot.

This dog's age and lack of training are bigger counts against him. Because if you have a dozen dogs to pick from, you're more likely to pick a younger and better trained model. This dog is better off than the biters or dog aggressive ones. He doesn't sound bad, just like he's never really been trained at all. Depending on his personality it could take a few days to a few months to have a really solid citizen. And again, the great pyr helps.

I think it can be helpful to tell people how few dogs are adopted out and to offer resources like trainers or suggest solutions.

cyprissa

Thanks all! I don't want to unnecessarily stick my nose into someone's business but they are asking on an open forum which I think is fair game. I love animals and have worked around and with them since I was a very small child. I just think people have this notion that rehoming is soooo easy and that this mystical, beautiful farm is just waiting out there for their dog. It's so sad....

RondackHiker

cyprissa said:

Thanks all! I don't want to unnecessarily stick my nose into someone's business but they are asking on an open forum which I think is fair game. I love animals and have worked around and with them since I was a very small child. I just think people have this notion that rehoming is soooo easy and that this mystical, beautiful farm is just waiting out there for their dog. It's so sad....

I have no idea why the damn farm myth is so persistent.

LnR70707

mrsmechanic1 said:

@CinemaGoddess is right, I was mainly trying to point out that this woman should not immediately be deemed the "problem" if this dog has years of training with an "alpha" pattern, whether you believe in it or not.  Dogs are pack animals, you are either inferior to them or dominant over them.  I'm not saying rehoming is right here, but it isn't always an easy training fix either.

I am thrilled that some of you have such obedient dogs that have no strong desires of their own ever. 

I believe the 'alpha' portion has been addressed. The comment about my dog, though. No, it's not that he has no desires. Completely the opposite, actually. He's a very drivey dog. He had many desires to do many many things. What training entails, though, is taking that drive and applying it to a behavior that I'm looking for. we fail, all the time, actually. But I don't give up on the dog because he wants to do what he wants. That's why it's called training. It takes time. When he starts understanding what I'm looking for, I reinforce the behavior. I personally like a dog with drive.

Ok, so clearly I stand corrected on the alpha approach (maybe I just used the wrong wording, our dog's behavior is much better now that I am the primary command giver, for lack of a better word, because I make him wait until I've got the kids situated, cats fed, whatever, rather than making him the first priority like DH did).  And once again, I am not suggesting that giving up is the answer, but dear god, our dog is a constant work in progress...I hope I'm not a bad owner because, at age 10, I'm still reinforcing commands.  I guess that was just a hot spot for me.  In the end, they are animals with their own ideas.

acesup

I'd ask if they plan to get rid of the kid when she tracks in dirt.

Ok maybe I wouldn't but I'm thinking it. I don't have much else to add than what the others said, but this makes me so sad especially to hear that this dog has been through 3 owners. Breaks my heart...

RondackHiker

@LnR70707‌

My god no, needing to reinforce commands doesn't make you a crappy owner. It's a constant process. You should see my dog after my MIL visits. She lets him get away with anything and even encourages it. So he tends to tune me out. And like I said in my post, we do daily stuff. Sits and downs and comes and all that. There have been times it's kept him healthy and safe (a stay when you break a glass at his feet is a good thing).

It doesn't sound like you're doing true alpha training as that you're handling him in the way that he responds best to. I bet if your husband imitates the way you give commands he'd have similar success. You probably instinctively have great timing and a good presence, which your dog responds to. It's not so much that he only can listen to one person as that only one person is effectively giving commands.

You sound like a good dog owner. I'm sorry I responded strongly. I have seen many people bit trying to follow "alpha training".

Monkeybabe

This thread is reminding me why we adopt adult dogs. Poor things.

We have a dog that was pretty well broken, and when we took her to a trainer, we were told a lot of what the ladies are saying in here. The trainer stressed giving a command once, otherwise it loses power. Our dog is a work in progress, too, a constant one. She was badly abused and not socialized, and there's just something off in her brain, because she can be perfectly trained and then one day it's all gone. So weird.

TiffanyBerry

cmeon_the_water said:

It would be wonderful if they'd get themselves into a good group obedience class series led by someone knowledgeable, if they'd get over the dirt/fur/slobber, if they'd realize that his paw is affection and not dominance, that he barks because he cares, that he wants to be a good dog- he just needs help. But, I'm bitter and burnt out and tend to just think that lots of people suck, so they should just call the rescue group and get it over with. 

A lot of this.

But I think the first part holds true for most dogs out there.