Trial Separation ?

silvie25mar

So.   Here goes. 

Alot of you might remember my posts during my bouts of post partum anxiety and probably depression. The troubles i've had in the last two years with my husband because of it.  9 months ago he left because he needed space and couldn't handle it anymore, well I begged him and sold him a good story I guess and he was back in a few days.  I was so happy, I probably thought wow that was close, lets see what I can do different, what we can do different.  Who was I kidding.. like always I fell back into the same patterns of pointless arguements, attitude, and neglect.  This made things worse and I probably ignored it and I know he did, I thought we were working on things and I thought things would get better.  Last fall was our first trip away together and with DD since our honeymoon and I was extatic.. after a series of events a few weeks before the trip he called it off and I was devasated but moved forward.   Here we are in June, we planned to go away for a few days and I thought we were both so excited for it but last week, just like that he packed up all his stuff and was gone.  He needed space awayf rom me and he needed to find his happiness and find himself again because the patterns of our 10 year relationship were never getting better and he didn't see any other choice.  He wants to be happy and right now it's not being at home. and as of last week it was over.

Of course I begged and pleaded said things would be different but he doesn't believe me. He said that I said that before and it just got worse, I didn't do anything I said I would.  Over the weekend we've had about 6hrs+ of talking, open honesty, nothing was left off the table.  But still in the end he needs time.   We BOTH took responsibility for our actions and how we got here. We've been together over 10 years and married 3.  To just give up like that is just devastating and I truely believe he doesn't want to he is just confused and stuck in some place.

EVERYBODY i'm talking to about this says GIVE HIM SPACE- GIVE HIM TIME.  He will more than likely come back eventually when he realizes his life is different and his family is gone. but prepare for the worst too.   But it's so hard because of the unknown.    It's important to point out he is an extremely proud and stubborn individual, and that does tend to get in the way of his decisions.  

He said that last time he was gone for 3 days and he made the mistake of coming home too soon.   He sends me a little bit of mixed signals that do in fact give me hope, but confuse me more.     He will say I love you back when I do, he has been crying alot, the day after he left I said to him I need to know if you see me in your future and in your happiness and he said he wasn't sure.  Hours later he called back and said he wanted me to know it's been so hard, extremely hard but he wants his happiness to include me and thats he's trying. 

Yesterday he was making small talk via text.  He asked if he could come see DD, take her out and bring her back for bed-  I said stay and he said he didn't want to have any more of "those talks" so I said we wouldn't, and could I make him dinner.  he said yes.   I told him you know eventually we're going to have to have this talk again and he said I know, it's just not close yet.

He can't give me a timeline, he doesn't know himself which way he is going to choose. He said we both need to feel this.   So my question here is... how long do I wait, what do i do in the meantime? what shouldn't I do?  how can I get him to come back to me and believe that this time things WILL be different. No question.   Im so lost.      I even asked if he wanted to sell the house and he said no.    

I just don't know whats going on in his mind. I just want my husband back. I don't want to lose him forever.  

Our anniversary is next week too.   sigh.

VOR

Counseling.  For both of you.  Individual and couple.  Seriously.  If you want to save your marriage, you need help.  He's got one foot out the door.  But he's clearly confused.  You NEED HELP.  Just saying "things will be different" w/o having ANY tools to actually make that happen means that things will NOT be different.

dashofreality

VOR said:

Counseling.  For both of you.  Individual and couple.  Seriously.  If you want to save your marriage, you need help.  He's got one foot out the door.  But he's clearly confused.  You NEED HELP.  Just saying "things will be different" w/o having ANY tools to actually make that happen means that things will NOT be different.

This. I wish you the best

silvie25mar

Thank you everybody. 
I forgot to mention yes I was seeking help due to the PPD/PPA from October (when the first time happened) until about March.   The therapist at that time said she thinks i'll be okay for a while until I feel like I need to come back. Maybe that was my mistake.. maybe I thought I was okay and that we were on the right track and the rest would be left up to me.   I said that to him.  His response was he fears i'm going to do it short term and then return back to the cycle and thats the reason.  It's the arguements it's the constant need for it and not allowing myself to just let some things go.  I will own that.   

You guys are right, I am taking alot of blame. But during our talks he agreed to his part too and it is only me writing this, not us writing it together. 

I have made another appointment for next week with my therapist to go back and I made it clear to him I will do it for the rest of my life if I have to. IT IS WORTH IT FOR ME. I just want to hear him say that too.

He was totally against counselling together. And by himself but I think he truely is now thinking about it.  I want to ask him to come with me next week, even to just listen and experience it.  Do you think this is  a good idea?

I will work on the couples counselling. his take on itw as that he doesn't want us to say things like " well the therapist said to do this, or that etc"   Again - he is a VERY proud individual. I love him for that, but it does take over at times.

Lastly, the trip we had planned to vegas is in two weeks.  It is non refundable, he's made mention he does not want to go.  Do I pull something from inside me and go myself? not ideal but maybe I could use it. maybe it could be MY time.  After all , he's gone away from myself and DD for HIS time.  Let him switch places with me and see how it is.   I don't think he thinks I have it in me to go.. maybe I should and shock him.  

 

mb314

I agree with pp that counseling is a great way to go, but I would give it a few weeks before mentioning it again.  I do also agree that you need to give him space and maybe he should stay away longer.  I'll be honest, he may not come back after a stay away, but I think the pattern of him coming and going over the last few months is damaging to you.  That needs to stop. 

In terms of the Vegas trip, I think that is a personal decision.  Is there a girlfriend or close family member who could go with you?  That might be fun.  But don't go to shock your DH, go for yourself if you're going to go.  It might be good to be away and relax by the pool with a drink for a while. 

MommyAtty

I'm going to say something shocking, so if you see no value in it, remember I'm a stranger on the internet, I don't know either of you, and I may be completely off-base. When you originally posted, I remember vividly thinking, "Yes, get therapy, and seriously, get away from your husband." He came across as really unsupportive, not understanding, and harmful to you in your time of need. PPD is a medical condition caused by hormonal changes. It's not like you woke up one day and said, "Hey, I know, I'm going to have my emotions spiral out of control!" But he seemed to act as though it was your choice. SO, my advice is to explore with your therapist and in your heart whether, just maybe, his leaving is also better for you. I don't know what the answer will be, but I think it's a fair question to ask.

silvie25mar

You're right.  It is a fair question to ask.    I struggle with that as well.  I do realize I can't beg somebody to love me, I can't beg them to see me the way I hope they would.  I can only hope that the time we've invested in the last 10 years for our future, our family  and our relationship will allow him to realize his errors as well.  It's important to note that we had an amazing relationship before DD.  The shock of the changes that came along with it in our scenario was no doubt massive - for both of us. I don't think we were prepared for any of it and from what I understand that time in peoples lives are what makes or breaks.

I want therapy- I don't want to change everything about myself. But tehre are things that I would like to alter in terms of how I react to things this will only benefit me as a whole, not just for him.  But I need him to trust me on that.. one last time.

I think based on his coming/going.  I think that he did come back prematurely because he put my needs first and his familys needs first in hopes that it would just go away.  Then I guess it got worse to the breaking point and now he needs to put himself first.    I understand that completely- we are all human.  I just wish I knew his timeline.  Are you giving up forever? or are we just temporarily separated.   All things I can't really push or ask because he's needed space.

He didn't cheat, I didn't cheat.  We just got stuck somewhere and lost our balance and our control.

As for Vegas, I don't know that I want to take anybody with me.  I don't have alot of supportive people in my life that will look at both sides of the story. I am surrounded by " he's never coming back and he's disgusting" type people. I don't need that.  I need to be an honest adult and look at this with maturity.   Even if I went and just layed by the pool and walked around for 3 days, it's something.   I'm just also in a very confused state.

Yes you're right- he may not come back after a stay away. But what if he does.  everything about the unknown just makes my stomach turn.   I want another chance to also see for MYSELF if it will work.   I think his vantage point is he doesn't want to do this all over again. He wants to make sure he's making the right choice.

mlee116

 I agree with PP's.  I also think @MommyAtty brought up a very good point.  I'm questioning his judgement and his character for leaving you when you are dealing with PPD and for leaving his child with you.  I'm not trying to judge you or suggest that you are dangerous, its just that PPD is very serious and I would think its hard to be a single parent and deal with depression.

I think you both need counseling, together and separately.  I also think its unfair of him to expect you to go to counseling and to blame you for ending your sessions, but be unwilling to go himself.  I just don't know that I would really consider staying with someone who puts all of the blame on me and is not willing to do everything in his power to make the marriage work.  

I don't know about the Vegas trip.  It might be nice to get away by yourself, but like PP said, do it for that purpose, not to spite him.

silvie25mar

I see what you guys are saying.  I understand completely. What can I say.. I love him.   He hasn't made the right decisions but neither have I.  I get that he might have taken off and is being selfish.  But I truely believe he think he has done everything he could in the last 9 months. I think in his confused mind about who is right or wrong- in his mind he felt neglected.  Or maybe he is just THAT stubborn.      I think differently, I don't think he has given his all because he kept hidden that he was fine when he wasn't.  When I knew inside something was up and chose to ignore it and then when I asked if everything was okay he would say yes.. stop asking that.  But I was right all along.  he lied to me.. nothing was right and he let us get to this point without talking to me.   
For me it kind of comes down to, well.. I feel this way nobody can stop me because they are my own feelings- right or wrong.   And I think he's in that boat. 
I guess in the end i'm doing a little bit of walking on eggshells because i'm afraid one wrong move will just push him farther away.

All I am doing is over analyzing every thing he says, and every detail.   Maybe the best thing I can do is just wait.   But he comes for dinner tonight and plays iwth DD, he doesn't want to talk about "things"    so what am i supposed to do pretend like everything is just normal until he says okayi'm going now.  Come on thats not fair.  

mlee116

silvie25mar said:

All I am doing is over analyzing every thing he says, and every detail.   Maybe the best thing I can do is just wait.   But he comes for dinner tonight and plays iwth DD, he doesn't want to talk about "things"    so what am i supposed to do pretend like everything is just normal until he says okayi'm going now.  Come on thats not fair.  

Personally, I would try not to talk about it.  I would let him focus spending time on your daughter.  I know it will be awkward, but its not fair to her for her time with her dad to be spent having a difficult conversation.  Worst case scenario, if he decides he doesn't want to stay in the marriage, you are going to learn how to co-parent and be cordial to one another in front of her, so I would start working on this now.

Virgo17

I think everyone has given you sound advice.  I would just like to add that you mention how great your relationship was before DD was born, but I cannot imagine that to be true.  Having children certainly puts a strain on all marriages, but you don't go from a rock solid relationship to being on the verge of divorce because of it.

In all honesty, he sounds like a selfish person.  Maybe everything was fine when you acted a certain way or didn't "need" him.  But the fact that he basically ditched you when you needed him the most does not make him look like a saint.

I don't know you or the intricacies of your relationship, so please take this with a grain of salt.  I am just giving my impression based on what you have shared.  Try to find a girlfriend to go to Vegas with.  I think YOU need some space to think about what you want.  Don't cling to him or grovel because you are afraid of losing him.  If the two of you make it through this, you need to walk forward together.  

silvie25mar

Virgo17 said:

..

I don't know you or the intricacies of your relationship, so please take this with a grain of salt.  I am just giving my impression based on what you have shared.  Try to find a girlfriend to go to Vegas with.  I think YOU need some space to think about what you want.  Don't cling to him or grovel because you are afraid of losing him.  If the two of you make it through this, you need to walk forward together.  

 

 

You're right.  There is so much more i'm sure to add to it that it would just end up being a massive paragraph of words that nobody would even read.

We did argue for the last 10 years, well before DD.  The STYLE of arguements hasn't changed.  The way I argue or nit pick hasn't changed.  He is no angel either, he could handle it different but he doesn't.   It just magnified by 1000 when DD came along and with the PPA/PPD.

 

It's funny because you say he's selfish but he says i'm selfish.

 

Now looking at a scenario outside the box- what if this was somebody else. How would divorces ever happen if somebody who was unhappy didn't walk away. If they tried to make it work unwillingly then they would be unhappy forever.  I don't think he wants that. I certainly wouldn't.   

silvie25mar

Thank you.

It's just hard.  It's hard for me, for DD.  I don't want this and I don't want to start over.  I'm heartbroken.

Thanks for the advice... i'll keep you posted.

MommyAtty

For the record, having kids can jack up a great relationship. It happened to me. I had the marriage everybody envied. We never argued, were perfectly in sync, were each other's greatest cheerleaders. The only glitch was he kept putting off kids, mainly for financial reasons. We had been married 15 years before I finally told DH that if he still wasn't ready for kids, he needed to let me know so I could decide if I was willing to stay. He acted like he was ready when he didn't feel that way. Without going into specifics, he basically blew up our marriage. We decided to still try to make it work (and frankly I only did so bc we had a new baby), and after a year of counseling at least once a week, we decided that we were still strong and wanted another child. Child #2 was completely his idea, because he had found that we both loved being parents and he really wanted another baby (thus was not a save-the-marriage baby). I won't lie, it's still hard for me. Our marriage is very different, but it's mostly good now. Counseling was good for us. It taught us to be less WASPy and more honest. Less conflict-avoiding. Better at communicating. So, yes, a child really can change everything. But that change isn't always bad. Sometimes it's a catalyst for good changes in ways you can't imagine. But if you both aren't absolutely committed to moving forward and finding a new way to be in the marriage, it's not going to work.

silvie25mar

So this might be a bit premature.  But i'll start with last night first.

He came over, i made the dinner.  HE started dancing around the subject of "stuff" because I said I wasn't going to talk about it if he did come. I felt cornered that he was dancing around the subject, he obviously wanted to talk about it but then blew it up back at me saying i'm the one that did it.  This is unacceptable to me.  He started with the " how are you eating.. are you eating.. how are you sleeping.. what time do you go to bed" etc.   There was no question we were getting into "stuff" territory and unfortunately we did and unfortunately there was an arguement, crying, anger, and frustration and anger at the end with him saying "SEE.. THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU DO. YOU DON'T LET IT GO"

Sure- i'll take that. But i'm sorry- I said this is my life, it's been 5 days since you've been gone this has been a very emotional angry rollercoaster. how can you not think we're going to discuss the boundaries etc. 

A few things- He said "i need to be very selfish right now and look after me"   ok. 

"I dont know what I want", " i have no timeline" , "you're asking for things to make yourself feel better" 

I started getting so angry guys, and more importantly FED UP.    I said if you can't give me any kind of indicator then i'm not sure what I want then.  He said he's not asking me to wait or to do anything, he's asking me to focus on myself until whatever happens.   He's not giving me a clear answer either way and this is very confusing to me.

He also said ( and this stands out clear in my  mind because he said it twice)  he said he realises I might not be here if he decides he wants to make it work, and he will have to digest " trying to win me back"     The reason this stands out as it seems like he wants to test these waters and then see what I will do, and then see if he can get me back that way.  If anybody has any insight into that please share.

I flat out said very strong and very seriously - do you want a divorce.  He said " no, i'm not there yet no."    I asked do you want to sell the house and he said no.   then he said, do you want any of those things.   The first thing that came out of my mind was,  " I don't know"   I also told him that I don't want him to come home right now and that I have not yet asked him to. That if he wants to come back it's because I WANT HIM TO.

I know that I can't be kept in limbo, I know that I can't have you hold that power which you say you hate to have.  I need to now look out for MYSELF.  I can't force him to do anything and really guys, i'm not sure how I feel about things now.  I want somebody who knows they want me.   Yes i need to work on things like everybody else, but so does he. I've said it before sure- but he's my husband and he should make peace with this.  He married me for a reason, and if i've been this way the whole time then whats the problem?

Since he left I haven't reached out to him. I'm not interested in it, and i'm not interested in seeing him.    I was able to cancel the Vegas trip and I think i'm going to go away by myself during that time, sit on a beach and do some soul searching.   I don't see any other options.

 

Bottom line is i'm trying to prepare myself for this new life that might happen and I need to be a strong and independent woman. lol.    Until an hour from now when I crumble ha ha ha.

MommyAtty

Wow, @silvie25mar‌ Good for you!! Yes, work on you. You can't change him. And by yourself you can't change the plural "you". But you can work to be the kind of singular you that you want to be.