Aggressive at daycare/preschool

soonfred

DS is 3.5 years old. He started going to a new daycare right after his 3rd birthday, so he's been there about 6 months now. This new place came highly recommended from friends and coworkers and is known locally to be one of the two best daycare providers in the region. I was impressed at our walk-through about how communication between parents and teachers was stressed, and how all of the teachers exceed the early childhood education standards set by the state for caregivers.

Anyway, the first month or so was rocky. DS's teachers were concerned about his speech development. We had heard this before from his pedi, so we had him evaluated just before starting the school with two EI specialist. Both said his speech was right on par with his age, and his vocabulary was excellent. Even though, DS's teachers said that he got frustrated when the other kids couldn't understand him and the other kids didn't want to play with him. We talked about how, according to 2 speech therapists, there was nothing wrong with him developmentally.

That's the last I heard about it until a month ago, at our parent-teacher conference. Evidently DS has had some major behavior issues, which include crashing into other kids purposefully, hitting, pushing, etc. This all came as a surprise to me because every day I got a good report about DS's day. The most negative thing would be like "oh, we had to talk about keeping hands to ourselves" or something along those lines. But most of it was just like side comments about his day. So I was surprised when the conference was 45 minute run-down of how terribly behaved DS is. Since then, I think his teachers have implemented a limited tolerance policy with him. He's getting sent to the director's office at least once a day for 20ish minutes at a time for behavior infractions. Last week I was called at work a few times when he was sent to the office. They talk to him about how he needs to be safe with the other kids, etc.

Here's the thing - he's not like this at home. We go to the park daily and he's overly nice to the other kids with sharing, helping out little ones, etc. He can get crazy at times, but he's a 3.5 yo boy that needs to run a lot to get his energy out (he always has been this way - he needs lots of gross motor or he gets crazy, and we've communicated this with his teachers). We had his 4 yo cousin who he rarely sees come and stay with us this weekend, and the kids got along swimmingly. They were considerate of each others' feelings and there were no aggressive infractions.

So, I'm at a loss. Here he is at this wonderful daycare and apparently he's a beast there. He comes home telling me he's a "bad boy". I don't think this is good at all - I feel that's a self-fulfilling prophecy. He tells me he doesn't care about getting sent to the office, but he's a super sensitive kid usually and I can tell it bothers him. I don't know if it's a 3 yo thing, if he's bored (he's one of the biggest/oldest kids in the classroom and far beyond most of them academically, according to his teachers), or what. I've talked to the director about moving him up to the 3-5 yo room, but there's no space. I'm just tired of dreading pick up and drop off because of the continuous bad reports. And, it seems like his teachers are fed up with him. I don't know if I'm being uber sensitive, but they've been treating me more coldly. I don't know if they're treating DS the same way, since he's a "bad" kid, you know? I feel like I really want to throw in the towel and just send him back to his old daycare before he's kicked out for his behavior.

Sorry for the long story. I was just wondering if anyone has any experience similar to this, and if they stuck it out just a little longer (to get over 3 or to an older room) or if they'd pull their kid out.

emberlee3

I am sorry. It does not sound like a good fit. I don't understand sending a 3 yo to the office as discipline. That does not sound age appropriate. His behavior is a message that he is not happy. I would move him.

QueSrah

We were similarly blown away at our first parent-teacher conference at DD's first preschool. She was pretty tame for a 3 year old, but didn't fit into their narrow definition of obedient child. She can be defiant at times, but typically isn't "bad." But they came at us with an ultimatum at the fall conference that we needed to straighten her out immediately or they were going to kick her out. And shockingly, after having a few conversations with DD, we DID get her to straighten out at school (which is sad that they couldn't have talked to us in a less confrotational setting earlier more than the single sentences of the kind you heard at pickup). But the director still wasn't pleased, because I think she had decided DD was a bad kid by then and nothing would be good enough.  We struggled through the rest of the school year (because we were obligated by a very sided contract with the school to pay in a lump sum for the rest of the school year if we left for any reason), and then moved her last June.  But for the rest of the year it's like we could feel that most of the teachers were cold to her because they had such a rocky start, even when she was better. And even if she had had another classroom to move into (the school director was adamant that she would not move DD to another classroom), I think the particular director would have continued to taint our experience.

And the new school was really a blessing. They're more relaxed and the teachers' and administrators' style doesn't immediately get up DD's hackles.  She seems so much more relaxed there, like she can feel that the adults don't have a visceral problem with her.

I don't think changing schools is necessarily "throwing in the towel" - you have six months under your belt, and the school isn't working for your family (you OR your son). Do you feel comfortable waiting out a few more months to move your son up to the next room? Presumably there will be older kids moving on in June or July. Or do you need to move him now? Your gut is probably telling you one or the other. Don't be afraid to listen to it.

cecilyandgautam

It may not be the right facility for your child, even if it's a great match for most kids. There are some nature-based, outdoorsy preschools in my area that give the kids hours of fresh air and a chance to run around most of the day - those seem to be a better match for some of the kids who have a hard time following all the rules in more traditional preschools that expect kids to sit still during a half hour circle time, keep their hands to themselves and not grab others' toys during free play, etc. I don't know if that's more along the lines of what your particular son needs, but just a thought - one of my friends' kids is being described as having discipline problems but when we watch him, it seems like he just needs a chance to run around and if he's not given it, he does have a hard time staying positively engaged, but he's clearly not a bad kid or anything like that - he just has a certain amount of energy that needs an appropriate outlet. We plan for outdoor time when we know we're watching him for a couple hours.   

In terms of helping your child adjust his behavior, whether you end up switch preschools or not, I feel like I learned so much from the article "Raising a Moral Child" a read - it was a compilation of research findings published in the NYT a month or two ago. What stood out to me is that the most effective way to discourage undesirable behavior is to express disappointment in the behavior (not the child). So you & the school could try to coordinate language around that - though, clearly they need to more effectively and consistently communicate with you regarding these incidents. Conversely, encouraging good/virtuous behavior, there is the common wisdom that we should praise actions, not the child, but the research in the article found that putting a label to the good behavior helped the child internalize that good quality as part of their identity - so if your child helps, you praising the helping but also thank the child for being a helper, and that encourages the child think of himself as a helper and look for opportunities to help in the future. ie - when your child shares well, you could tell him it's being a good sharer. 

molisar

emberlee3 said:

I am sorry. It does not sound like a good fit. I don't understand sending a 3 yo to the office as discipline. That does not sound age appropriate. His behavior is a message that he is not happy. I would move him.

I agree. Especially for "hands to yourself" type issues (crashing, pushing kids, etc.) Goodness if DS (3 yrs old) was sent to the office every time he pushed a kid he'd live in the office. I think they are being a little too harsh and it's having a negative effect on your DS. I'm no expert, but from what I've read, kids pushing/touching, etc. in school at that age is part of their development and the best thing to do is distract them and re-focus their attention on something else - not discipline them as seriously as that. If your DS was seriously hurting other children, that would be another story. But this just sounds like pretty darn normal behavior for a kid that is new to a school setting.

soonfred

QueSrah said:
I don't think changing schools is necessarily "throwing in the towel" - you have six months under your belt, and the school isn't working for your family (you OR your son). Do you feel comfortable waiting out a few more months to move your son up to the next room? Presumably there will be older kids moving on in June or July. Or do you need to move him now? Your gut is probably telling you one or the other. Don't be afraid to listen to it.

I really feel like it's the time to get him out. I guess I'm apprehensive about moving him around too much because it feels like a 6 month window to move twice is a lot, but it's pretty clear that it's not a good fit for him. My gut is telling me we need to move him. DH suggested that we sit down and talk to the director about how we're feeling and how we'd like to move him and get her take on the situation. Judging by how he's been sort of labeled, I'm wondering if they're already thinking that he should be in a different school.

soonfred

cecilyandgautam said:

In terms of helping your child adjust his behavior, whether you end up switch preschools or not, I feel like I learned so much from the article "Raising a Moral Child" a read - it was a compilation of research findings published in the NYT a month or two ago.

Thanks for your input and for the recommendation! I'm reading "Raising Your Spirited Child" right now, so this one will be next on my list.

soonfred

I totally agree with everyone that I don't feel like sending him to the principal is a great way to react to the issues he is having. I can understand taking him out of the situation if it becomes unsafe for everyone, but from what I've heard no one has gotten hurt from anything. He pushes/hits for what his teachers say is no reason, but there's a law in the state that if children are visibly injured at a daycare, the parent of the perp has to sign a slip - I've never signed anything.

I should add, too, when I've talked to DS about why he does this stuff, he tells me the other kids are "pushing, pushing, pushing" all the time and not giving him the space he needs. I've talked to his teachers about this, and they say they'll pay attention to the situations, but I have my doubts as DS still complains about it.

QueSrah

soonfred said:

QueSrah said:
I don't think changing schools is necessarily "throwing in the towel" - you have six months under your belt, and the school isn't working for your family (you OR your son). Do you feel comfortable waiting out a few more months to move your son up to the next room? Presumably there will be older kids moving on in June or July. Or do you need to move him now? Your gut is probably telling you one or the other. Don't be afraid to listen to it.

I really feel like it's the time to get him out. I guess I'm apprehensive about moving him around too much because it feels like a 6 month window to move twice is a lot, but it's pretty clear that it's not a good fit for him. My gut is telling me we need to move him. DH suggested that we sit down and talk to the director about how we're feeling and how we'd like to move him and get her take on the situation. Judging by how he's been sort of labeled, I'm wondering if they're already thinking that he should be in a different school.

You know your kid best, obviously, but they tend to be more resilient than we fear. He might have a short-term difficulty getting to know new people and a new place, but it could also be less stressful for him than a daily struggle against a school that doesn't work for him.

Mustardseed2007

You know we've been going through a thing with DS (2.5) where he has started being aggressive at school including hitting teachers when they give him instructions he doesn't want to hear. In our case I see him play aggressively at home also so it wasn't a surprise to me.

They never send him to the office nor do they use that as discipline for kids in his class. Instead they use redirection and instructions on what they want him to do ("gentle hands" and "use your words"). While the teachers are giving me reports, they always emphasize that it's age appropriate, he's fine, but it's something that needs to be worked through.

If my son was being sent to the office and telling me he's a "bad boy" I would move him. And I say that as someone who had to go through a lot to get my son into the school we are at, and I would have to go through a lot to get him into any place else. Long waitlists are the norm in my area.

Tink112011

emberlee3 said:

I am sorry. It does not sound like a good fit. I don't understand sending a 3 yo to the office as discipline. That does not sound age appropriate. His behavior is a message that he is not happy. I would move him.

I don't have too much to add here, but I just learned that our 2.5 year old room uses this form of discipline.  My DS came home and told me that one of his friends had to sit in Miss Director's Office.  ("On her chair" specified my DS)

I was a bit surprised myself, so I asked a co-worker who used to be a teacher at DS's daycare.  She said its not often used for the 2 year olds, but more often for the 3 and 4 year olds.  Seems weird to me too.

litzo27

I would probably wait out a couple of months and try the next room BUT provided that the teachers and the director would listen to me and work with me on the issues at hand. I was reading through your post and trying to identify which parts bothered me the most and how I would try to address them.

- lack of communication. The conference should not have been the first time you are hearing about these problems. These should have been mentioned on the days they are occurring unless the teachers at pick-up are different than the ones during the day. I would stress that I need to know about these things right away. At pick-up I would ask pointed questions such as "Did he have success playing nicely and being gentle today?"

- the phrase "bad boy". We are very careful to differentiate between being a "bad boy" and "making bad choices". I would be concerned that they are either using this language or sending the signal that going to the director = being a bad boy. Removal from a classroom should not be a punishment - it is a chance for a child to calm down, restart if you will. Yes, he is old enough to understand that his behavior was wrong but he should not feel like a "bad boy". I would ask for specific examples of when he is sent to the office and what is being said to him at those times.

- His claim that other kids are pushing. Either the teachers are not watching closely enough or he has learned that needs to say that. I would stress that they need to watch him. If he is the oldest then a lot of kids in the group are probably not very verbal and may be the initiators in trying to take away toys or getting in his space, etc. And, again, being the oldest he is physically the biggest so that's a bad combination. They really need to assess what the triggers and I would specifically ask: "Does he act out when someone takes his toys or doesn't want to share? Does he act out when another child gives unwanted contact like hugs or touching hair?"

The things that don't really bother me are that he is not like that at home (others noted that kids can act VERY differently, I'm seeing that with my oldest and Kindergarten), and the language assessments - my niece was assessed as borderline fine by IE but noone in my family can understand even half of her speech other than my sister. That will improve.

If they would be willing to work with you on the points above I would consider staying a couple of months to get to the older group. However, I agree it's also important to trust your gut - do the teachers greet him warmly when he comes? Do they tell you specific good things he did? (Like "he did a great job with the puzzles today" or "he really enjoyed when we read the fireman book"). Does he seem to have friends that he enjoys playing with? If overall your gut tells you to get out - then do so. And let us know how things go!

thedash

I agree with PP's that you should follow your gut and move him. DS had some trouble with pushing and hitting at preschool at age 3.5. The reaction was totally different and much more constructive than what you have experienced.

soonfred

Thanks everyone for the great advice and suggestions. DH and I are going to talk to the director tomorrow, and if there is no room to move him to a new classroom (3-5 yos) immediately we're going to enroll him at a different center. Fortunately, we're going on a family vacation next week and we can forget about all these problems, at least for a little while.

junebugrbig

emberlee3 said:

I am sorry. It does not sound like a good fit. I don't understand sending a 3 yo to the office as discipline. That does not sound age appropriate. His behavior is a message that he is not happy. I would move him.

Definitely this.