Raising a well-behaved child without spanking?

BumbleBrandi

My husband and I are trying to iron out a discipline plan for our kids, and we keep coming up with more questions than answers.  I had a good experience with being spanked as a child.  It didn't 'scar' me in any way, and I feel like it really taught me to respect authority - and that my actions have concrete consequences.  My parents always sent me to my room to 'think about what I had done' until they were calm and collected.  They then came in, explained what I had done wrong and why it was wrong, and then gave me three licks with a belt.  I never felt resentful of them or thought this meant I could hit people so solve a problem.

HOWEVER, every parenting book / article I read says that spanking leads to long term problems for children.  At best, they say it gets you immediate compliance from a child, but damages trust between child and parent, and damages the child's ability to regulate their own behavior, etc., etc.  I've looked up countless peer reviewed articles on the subject, and none of them have anything good to say about spanking.  I am loath to ignore such a large body of research...

Which leads me to the questions:  What do you do instead of spanking?  Do you find it effective?  Do you know children who have been raised without spanking who AREN'T spoiled and defiant?  I'm particularly interested to hear from people who aren't talking about their own kids, because I'd guess that we all think our little ones are angels, right? 

I am making no judgment calls here; I am sincerely searching for answers, and want to do what's best for my child.

Thanks for your help!

rockyrollgirl

Oh. A spanking thread.

I have a good idea about how I would like to discipline (DD is only 16 months), but will be flexible on what works best for her. Whether that is time outs, grounding, taking away things, etc. Really, I am going to play that by ear. Spanking will not be the main way to discipline in this household though.

I was beat growing up. So was H. It just made us better at hiding things. I really wouldn't say we were "well-behaved". 

raquelynn714

DH and I just figured out that we had different opinions about spanking as well. We were both spanked as children, but my discipline ideals started to take a turn after getting my teaching credentials. I'm positive there are effective strategies for discipline other than spanking, Probably because I've spent the last 7 years disciplining children (many with behavior challenges and behavior improvement plans). I recommend Love and Logic. There are books/articles you can read and classes that are offered to teachers and families.

Rosebean

The spanking topic can open up a huge can of worms. On my other BMB, we have one woman who gets very passionate about why spanking is the worst thing for your child ant that it's abusive. She's very extreme about it. Whereas some others will use it as a form of appropriate punishment for only as long as it is effective.

Personally, we haven't even decided if we are a spanking family or not. I think our plan is to resource all other forms of effective punishment before we move onto spanking as an option. I certainly do not condone it as long as it is done without tools, the parent administering it is calm and the child understands why they are getting spanked. It shouldn't be given out of frustration or anger, or because it's the go to punishment for the parent. Some parents spank because it makes them feel better and in control, which is the wrong reason to spank. 

I remember a mother of four telling me she only needs to spank 2 of her 4 children because it's not a required, effective form of punishment needed for the other two. One of the 2 who are spanked are spanked very rarely and only in extreme circumstances where they endangered themselves or others. The other is spanked a bit more frequently because otherwise the bad behaviour would drag on so long that the child started thinking he was a bad kid because he was always in trouble. The spanking would effectively redirect his behaviour and he could then move on with his day. So it's circumstantial IMO. And it's personal. No one can make your parenting choices for you, and the arguments here shouldn't be what makes up your mind about whether to do it or not. It needs to be what you feel comfortable with as per your child. 

BumbleBrandi

rockyrollgirl  , I tried to use the search feature to see if this had been discussed before, but I couldn't really find anything...  sorry if this has been done to death.  I'd just like to hear from real people who aren't biased by the cultural trends in my region. 

Jennicillin

Every kid is different

That's really the best answer I can give....

In general you'll find most on this board are opposed to any and all spanking.  I've found there's a difference between a very occasional, attention grabbing well timed, swat and a person who spanks their kid over every little thing.  People who are comfortable with spanking are usually portrayed as the latter, even though it's rarely the case.  (That's not to say there aren't parents who over spank or spank when they're angry, which you shouldn't do, just that they are the minority)

I have a friend with 3 kids, one was particularly stubborn.  Just hard headed defiant personality.  Of the three this was the only kid who every needed a spanking.  The beauty of it is, she only needed it twice in her little life, because at that point it had gotten serious... and mom didn't swat her butt every dang time she turned around.

I've learned the REAL key to discipline is consistency and taking time to actually figure out what your kid actually cares about.  It's really about consequences, good and bad.  When you do naughty things there's a consequence, when you do good things there's a consequence.

When my son throws a toy, it goes to "jail" (on top of the fridge)  When he hits his sister, he has to make amends, sit in time out.  When he spits out his food at the table, dinner is over... nothing else that night period I don't care if you're still hungry.

One time he tried to run out into the street.  You best believe I spanked his little butt and yelled DANGER in his face.  I don't regret it, and he never did it again.  It resonated because it was a very real and serious consequence he's not used to for a very real and serious situation.

Only you can know where your comfort level lies with it.

rockyrollgirl

BumbleBrandi said:

rockyrollgirl  , I tried to use the search feature to see if this had been discussed before, but I couldn't really find anything...  sorry if this has been done to death.  I'd just like to hear from real people who aren't biased by the cultural trends in my region. 

Well now I am curious. What is the cultural trend in your region and why do you think those people are biased? 

Jennicillin

rockyrollgirl said:

BumbleBrandi said:

rockyrollgirl  , I tried to use the search feature to see if this had been discussed before, but I couldn't really find anything...  sorry if this has been done to death.  I'd just like to hear from real people who aren't biased by the cultural trends in my region. 

Well now I am curious. What is the cultural trend in your region and why do you think those people are biased? 

I would venture a guess that when you get into the deep south or more rural areas you will find spanking is still widely accepted, where as in more urban and coastal areas it's frowned on.  This is just what I've noticed from moving around a lot

rockyrollgirl

@jennicillin I was just getting the impression that OP favors spanking, but where she lives does not. I wanted to make sure I am correct in that.

BumbleBrandi

rockyrollgirl said:

BumbleBrandi said:

rockyrollgirl  , I tried to use the search feature to see if this had been discussed before, but I couldn't really find anything...  sorry if this has been done to death.  I'd just like to hear from real people who aren't biased by the cultural trends in my region. 

Well now I am curious. What is the cultural trend in your region and why do you think those people are biased? 

Everyone spanks here.  If you don't, people give you heck for it and tell you that you are screwing over your kid.  It's a very "spare the rod, spoil the child" mentality.

rockyrollgirl

BumbleBrandi said:

rockyrollgirl said:

BumbleBrandi said:

rockyrollgirl 
, I tried to use the search feature to see if this had been discussed before, but I couldn't really find anything...  sorry if this has been done to death.  I'd just like to hear from real people who aren't biased by the cultural trends in my region. 

Well now I am curious. What is the cultural trend in your region and why do you think those people are biased? 

Everyone spanks here.  If you don't, people give you heck for it and tell you that you are screwing over your kid.  It's a very "spare the rod, spoil the child" mentality.


Okay thanks for answering OP. I did not mean to be rude and come off as saying this has been beat to death. Just that it tends not to go well.

jamjoyful

We personally don't spank. I don't necessarily have strong views one way or another but we don't usually need to. Time-outs, losing toys/cartoons, or even dessert seems to do the trick. Sometimes, just saying her full name gets her to stop without even having to get to any further punishment. She has her days where we have to set her in her room until she calms herself. I do not shut the door or leave her on the bed where she could fall. I put her on her little carpet in her room and sit on the stairs outside her door for two minutes. Then, I go in and try to talk to her. If she is still upset I go back to the stairs for another two minutes and so on.

You will find what works for your child and you eventually. It's all trial and error. Some days, I still don't feel like I'm doing it right.

BabyM82714

As long as there is effective and consistent discipline in the household then spanking isn't necassary. A swat on the butt or smack on the hand for doing or touching something dangerous is different. I've definitely smacked little hands to keep away from reaching for a knife or stove. And as another PP said running to the street very well could justify a swat on the butt. I think time outs are effective, taking toys away etc. I believe our society now has lots of issues with consistency and empty threats. Ex: with a friend yesterday and her five year old was acting up in the store. She kept telling him he couldnt stay with his grandma and finally said that's it you aren't going. He cried. When we got him he Still went to grandmas. Therefore he learned nothing .

Jenrileysmom

I know I was spanked occasionally as a child and that it didn't scar me for life. I also have swatted DD's behind on occasion when she was a little younger (she's 7 now) I have also swatted her mouth. If my husband ever has, I can't remember. Since he works away, it falls on me to be the main source of discipline anyway. My daughter is a pretty good girl and hasn't had many issues with behavior except isolated incidents. I've always kind of played it by ear. 

I do know that every family is different and every child is different. And while you and your husband can discuss your beliefs about discipline, I don't think you will be able to "iron out" a plan until you are actually faced with situations that come up with your children. 

Poppy1985

@raquelynn714 I loves me some Love and Logic! I use it in my work with kids and I plan to incorporate it into my home.

I was never spanked, DH was on rare occasion. I think at best, spanking is only effective when it is followed up by some other form of discipline and discussion about why the spanking was warranted (such as running out into a street and using it as an immediate way to get through to the child that what he was about to do was dangerous)

almcconnell1680

I grew up in a house where it was used based on the situation and severity of the "offense". I feel bec of the area we live in it is far more acceptable than where we each grew up. I in Ny and my husband in San Diego. However, we choose not to spank. I nannied for 7 years, and worked in settings caring for others children for a few more years before nannying. (Daycare, camping) at no point in all that time did I have to/allowed to use physical punishment and chose to do similar methods with my own son. He is almost three and I am a sahm. I think I've experienced times why parents would choose, but to me a lot of it comes from our own frustration. If I'm consistent and aware of my sons behavior I can honestly say I catch him in behaviors long before they escalate to a situation that for others warrant a spanking. It's different for everyone, but in all my experience I'd say spanking has been unnecessary. It's more about supervising, consistency and understanding your own child's make up/needs.

lexxctpx

I wasn't spanked, DH was. My parents were super-hardcore anti-spanking.

I'd say we both turned out to be relatively well-adjusted members of society and we don't hold any weird or negative feelings for our parents either way.

I was just sent to time out and that worked just fine. I was a really well-behaved child, though. Like PP said, I'm sure it depends on the kid and other parenting factors, though I'd have no clue what they'd be as I have no experience yet with my own children. All we know is from our own experiences when we were kids.

Valancyy

We don't spank our children, but then we haven't had to either.  My oldest is only 3, and other forms of discipline have worked.

I was spanked maybe 1 or 2 times ever as a child.

My H's brother was spanked constantly, and he was still a discipline problem who wouldn't listen.  He hasn't turned out too well as an adult, either.

BeachM

1, 2, 3 Magic (book) works very well for us.  Consistency is the most important regardless of what else is incorporated in your discipline technique.  As is having realistic expectations based on age of the kid.  A 2 year old does not care one bit about your lecture as to "Now sweetie, you know you aren't supposed to do ______.  Why did you do it?  You know it makes mommy mad.  Please try to be nice and don't do it again." and then the kid will promptly do it again causing mommy to lose her shit. 

We have not had that many issues with hitting and biting, but we do immediate timeouts for throwing things (this isn't as much of a problem at 3.5 as it was a 2.5).  He gets timeouts these days when the attitude gets out of control, mainly for screaming at me.  It all comes in waves though and it's not like he spends all day every day in timeout multiple times. 

I was spanked, sort of, maybe 3 times?  I don't even remember really.  We do not spank.  When I find myself yelling too much which is just as bad as spanking, I put myself in timeout to calm down.  They play off your emotions so being calm, cool, and consistent with your expectations goes a long way.  And really, what you do is going to change as they age because their mental development changes so much. 

Third&goal

I think you are probably approaching this in the right manner, trying to find ways and resources to parent without spanking.  However, never say never. 

lookame3639

This is a very controversial topic. I will admit I used to spank DS but the effects didn't last outside of when he was spanked. The punishment just didn't work for us and DS prefers to be spanked than have another longer lasting punishment. Sometimes spanking is affective and other times it simply isnt. In our case with DS oppositional defiance disorder it just wasn't a good option for us. We have found other much more effective means of disapline.

that being said I have to go back and say you need to be fluid with your consequences. I wouldn't make spanking the first go to for every punishment since the message often gets lost and becomes "Iwas bad I was spanked" often they ddon't understand why they were spanked even when you discuss why afterward.

chase16

I was spanked probably under 5 times for extreme offenses (like eating my brothers candy he was selling in Boy Scouts). I remember them because I absolutely deserved them, and it definitely made me never repeat the same behavior. However, my parents also used a variety of creative punishments that were very effective:time outs, grounding, essay writing, writing lines, writing apology letters (my mom was an English major and a librarian..). I will probably sample from all these, and find what works best. I'm not opposed to spanning in extreme cases tho.

MeganEMcG5

I personally don't ever remember getting spanked myself, but I do remember my younger brother getting spanked (and my sister and I begging my dad not to do it). DS is 3 1/2. I spanked him once when I couldn't control my anger and I regret it. It is not a form of discipline I planned on using -- for all of the reasons that your research gives. I happen to think I have a very well-behaved kiddo (most days), and we've achieved this both in our parenting/discipline approach, but also just based on his temperament. I can't say that we'll be as successful with DD, because she could be a completely different kid.

IMO, there are so many factors that go into making a person who they are -- parenting and discipline is a large part of that, but just part. I don't know that one style of discipline will be appropriate for all of my kids, but I do intend to stick with no spanking.

happylady07

I was not spanked as a child, I believe because my mom was to the point of physical abuse, and made a conscious decision to raise her kids differently. My dad was raised in a very stern/verbally abusive household himself, and while I remember him being a terrifying person to face when I screwed up, he never layed a hand on us either.

We don't spank our 2.5 year old, I don't personally feel it's an appropriate form of punishment, especially with our son's personality. We incorporate time outs, removal from the situation/removal of privilege/toy/whatever, redirection/distraction, and/or basic explanation of why we are doing so based on his action or behavior.

Discipline is probably one of the most difficult things to come to a consensus about in our house between my husband and I, to be honest. He grew up in a house with a mom who yelled like a lunatic (and still does IMO, but according to the rest of the family she is much tamer now, which is slightly terrifying), so he tends to resort to to yelling when he gets frustrated, which irks me. However, he is making improvements and seems to be more conscious about how he reacts to things as we go along, and is getting much better about stepping in and helping resolve issues rather than escalating them by just blindly reacting.

shutaff

I was never spanked, but I was a really well-behaved child. My brother was spanked (probably excessively at times and usually in anger). I am a much more successful, well adjusted adult, although I'm sure that has to do with a ton of factors other than spanking. 

We won't spank our children. It is not always the case, but in many instances, spanking has a lot to do with the parents' lack of patience in explaining proper behavior in a way that a child can understand and lack of skill in coming up with proper consequences for misbehaviors. I will say that something that bothers me even more than spanking though are people who jerk their kids around, grab them by the arm, etc. Treating a child like that does not teach them the proper way to interact with others, by using your words and not your physical dominance.

MollyHooper

You can raise a well behaved kid without spanking.
What matters most is your attitude towards your kid.
if you are constantly getting annoyed and frustrated at your kid (like a certain someone I know who goes by the SN MollyHooper)
Then it doesn't matter weather or not you spank.
What I have struggled with is trying to find out why my kids act out and try to either catch the situation before it happens or teach them how to deal with it.

abirdd9

My husband and I have (almost) never laid a hand on our daughter and have not shown her anything but respect even when disciplining and I feel like we have one of the most well behaved almost 3 year olds around. I said almost never because she's gotten a few smacks on the hand for various severe potentially life threatening situations.

MH was spanked regularly as a child and hates those memories looking back. I was spanked a couple times and remember feeling so shamed and humiliated. 

Is it ok to hit an adult when they've misbehaved? Fuck no. An animal? Some people think so, but NO. Why do people think it's ok to hit children when the misbehave? Your child depends on you to show him love and security. Would you feel loved if someone shamed your and hit your behind when you burned dinner? Of course not. 

The main way we've always addressed 'misbehaviour' is redirection. If she's getting into something she shouldn't we remove her from the situation and put whatever she's into out of reach. If she pulls mama's hair, I take my hair out of her hand and say, "Ouch! It hurts mama when you do that. It's nice to touch gently." and then show her how to touch gently. We praise her when she is behaving. If she touches the kitty gently the first time, we'd tell her, "That's a very nice way to pet the kitty. He likes when you pet him gently." 

Those are just silly examples, but good ones.We talk to her like a person, not as someone lesser than ourselves. If she hits someone, we asses how she might be feeling and explain to her that it's ok to feel angry/frustrated/etc, but it's not ok to hit. And then depending on her age we'd give her a safe action to do instead: stomping her foot, clenching a fist, simply walking away. 

I could go on and on and on, but I won't. 

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PecanSam

My sister and I were never spanked. My sister was an angel her whole entire life and I don't remember her ever getting in trouble, once I came along.

I was a bit more if a handful but nothing crazy. My parents just raising their voice was good enough for me. When I was older, I would get grounded for not following the rules.

I do not believe in spanking. I think bit is unnecessary and teaches the wrong thing. It teaches you to fear that person, not respect. And teaches you to not do that wrong thing with that person, not in general.

We will not spank our children. You just have to find what works with your child. Whether it's time out, not being able to play with a certain toy for x amount of time, etc. the biggest thing that works is reinforcing the good behavior instead if only focusing on bad behavior. Right now, since my daughter is only 2, we just use distraction for the most part and reinforce the good behavior.

Kondasa

Spanking gets short term results and that is it. 

We use natural consequences and don't give in when she has a want or desire that we don't agree with.

If she is whining we ignore her whines
If she isn't listening then she gets a time out of what she is doing
If she runs away from us she has to sit in the stroller

I think discipline isn't about a one or two time thing--it is how you parent 24/7. How you talk to your children, actions you take, how you treat people. To me that molds a child and not "acts of discipline"
 

haliebabyx3

I think I was spanked as a child, but it was so rare and only happened a few times I can't really remember. My mom used to have this look that scared the crap out of me. However, in public if I did act up she would pinch the skin under my arm, I guess to not make a scene. Although, I think I would have rather been spanked, because that crap hurt. My mom mostly stuck to grounding and taking things away from me, but to this day she will tell you I was hardly ever a "bad" kid. I know I had my times though. 

H was spanked as a child, with a switch or with a belt. If it was a switch he had to go pick it out and if it wasn't good enough he had to go back until it was. He and I grew up in very different homes. Not saying that has anything to do with discipline, it's really hard to explain without typing a huge book.  If H wasn't spanked, he was grounded or had other forms of discipline. I know one form was his parents made him pick up rocks out of the yard and put them back in the driveway, seems like a lot of his discipline was labor type work if he wasn't spanked.

We haven't really discussed discipline yet. I feel like if anything like PPs have mentioned maybe a small smack on the hand and just trying to talk to them. As they get older I feel like we will probably take things away, give time outs and grounding. I live in the south so spanking is actually a really big form of discipline here and I see a lot of people do it. I just really don't think I would be comfortable doing it.

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Peedy

I've had this talk with DH. I assumed that everyone was spanked as a child, because I was. DH was not spanked as a child and is incredibly mature for a 27 year old and has respect for authority. He did have time outs and had to go to his room when he was a kid, but his patents never hit him. He is adamant that we don't spank our children, and that is how we will patent, but it all seems weird to me because it wasn't how I was raised.

wsfireman

Look into love and logic parenting. As a teacher our school encourages us to use this idea of discipline. You it is along your idea of parenting but I love it and we are going to use it with our little man

PecanSam

International attachment parenting covered this exact topic today.

exhibitv

I saw someone else mentioned this but we are using the Love and Logic method (for now). We are new to the disciplining game with DD.  For example, the last week or so, she has been wanting to get up from the dinner table before we are all done (she wants to get up and run around after SHE is all done) but we want everyone to eat as a family. We give her choices of where she can sit at the table but she can't get up from the table. After a week of hell-ish dinners, I realized yesterday we had our first pleasant meal with no tantrums. She did ask to get up, but we told her we weren't done 'yet" and she understood and was patient. it was incredible.This method doesn't mean that you won't have tantrums to deal with as a result, but so far it's been working well for us. 

olii1

I was spanked when I was a kid but I don't even remember it. ( my mom told me) My parents just did it when nothing else worked and they stopped when I was old enough to understand the consequences. 

Emmerbemmers

I was not spanked, though I don't think my parents were particularly anti-spanking. Honestly, I think my mom was so loving, nurturing and FUN that it was easy to obey her. We would never want to disobey or disrespect our mom. My son (3) is a handful. He has sensory processing disorder and/or autism spectrum disorder (going through disgnosis right mow). Sometimes i feel all hippy-dippy-weirdo about my beliefs about parenting, but I do not believe in the se of punishments or rewards. Discipline = teaching. It takes a lot more time, energy and patience but I believe (and research suggests) that punishments and rewards give yiu great short-term results but crappy long-term effects. I suggest the book Positive Discipline. Its what my mom did, based on her own instincts. We have seen amazing prigress in our son by using consitent, RESPECTFUL discipline. Its hard but I am proud of our parenting and VERY proud of our son.