More nanny issues.. And an etiquette question.

JulyMomma2U2 · April 2014

So, I posted 2 weeks or so ago about some nanny issues we were having... Long story short, after discussing it with my Nanny, some of the things were thought to be a result of poor communication between my husband and the nanny... We discussed, cleared it up, and again seemed like we were on the same page... Last week was good.. Toys were mostly cleaned up, bottles and dishes were put in the dishwasher, and it genuinely seemed okay.

This morning, before leaving for work, I said to her that the dishwasher had been run last night and I didn't get a chance to empty before I was leaving. I said if you get a chance and can just wash their dishes that'd be great.. It's just breakfast dishes, lunch dishes and 2 bottles.. Not a huge deal.. She responded "Oh, I'd love to wash them for you.. Washing dishes is cathartic for me, but I don't usually get much down time through the day"... I sort of dismissed it... I've told her before, my almost 2 year old is perfectly content wandering around while I clean dishes, and as long as you keep an ear on what he's doing it's almost never an issue... But I digress.. She then proceeded to ask about if I'm okay with her changing the channel on the TV if she has down time during the day (I usually just have her put music on with the kids bc I'm not a fan of them watching tv during the day).. And I of course said absolutely, you can put on whatever you want.. And I even said if it's a rainy day or something and you want to out cartoons or something on with the kids that's fine, too, we just don't want the tv to be on all day every day... Kind of ironic, right? One minute you say you can't wash their dishes from breakfast or lunch because you have no down time, but then you ask about putting on the tv when you have free time... She also confirmed that she had 30 minutes of overlapping nap time today, but yet all the dishes were oiled in the sink. I feel nitpicky, but at the same time I feel frustrated by the fact that it doesn't ever seem like she thinks about what would make life easier for my husband and I, too..

Ya know. I really think a lot of it comes from just her not being a tidy person. For example, this morning, she went to get the baby's bottle, and in trying to get the lid off, she accidentally loosened the top and milk was spilling all over the counter, down the cabinets and pooling on the rug by the sink.. I quickly said watch that's spilling.. And she stopped and tightened, but didn't even take notice that milk had spilled everywhere. I cleaned it up. Then there's the diaper thing... Today is Tuesday, so she's had them yesterday and today... And I noticed both boys again are starting with diaper rash. Now, my husband gets home at 5, preps dinner quickly and we eat.. Kids are ready for a bath by 6:15.. Both kids had poop diapers, which looked like they'd been sitting in for a while... Now, sure, my husband could have changed them when he first walks in the door, but, his priority is trying to get dinner done,, I'm sure he assumes they're needs have been taken care of... I have discussed this with her before.. Asking to change more frequently.. And a fresh change at the end of the day that will last them through bedtime... It's not always that they have poop, but sometimes they are just super soaked... My 9mo old has to go really long to get a super soaks diaper as he only gets 2 bottles a day and doesn't drink a ton of water from his cup yet... So, idk... Plus, and this is more pet peevish, she often puts the wrong diapers on them... One is a size 4 the other a size 5.. I have a large square basket, half has one size the other half the other size.. She tends to put the 5s on both, or 4s on both which causes someone to leak.... This, too, I've made a point to reiterate the size differences..

We also had an interesting conversation about chores this morning,, just in passing., when I mentioned I didn't get a chance to unload the dishwasher, she was talking about how much she hates doing that and how she used to not use her dishwasher because she hated unloading it,, then continued by saying she hates changing sheets and folding laundry... The irony to all of that?? These were the kinds of tasks we were hoping to maybe get some help on after #3 is here!! My husband and I had talked about this a lot.. When baby 3 comes we will likely need the occasional help with running loads of the kids' laundry and changing crib sheets, etc.. And on days when the dishwasher ran overnight and we didn't get a chance to unload, it would be helpful to all if the nanny did that so then she had a place to put the dishes from the day, ya know.. Idk. I just feel like this isn't going to work out, especially when baby #3 comes. I just don't think we will get the kind of helping hand we will need... Am I wrong for thinking this?? Is it unrealistic to think someone could watch both boys and manage basic tasks? I mean, I know I'm "mom" and my trust in them is a lot different.. But when I'm home on Thursdays and Fridays, I manage to clean the whole house, do all the laundry, wash the floors, clean the bathrooms, etc and still play with them and keep them happy.. Granted, some days are tougher, but there's never a day where I can't find the time to do the basic tasks of cleaning up.. Idk...!!

What we were thinking is this... Between my maternity leave and my husbands, we will have over 4 months off... At first, MH and I talked about keeping her, continuing to lay her, and just having her come by maybe half the hours or something just to help out... But, I really don't see that as going to work... And I'm not really comfortable with financially putting us in a tight squeeze (it will be toughhhh to pay her while not receiving pay for part of my leave)... So, we were thinking we would just "let her go" when the new baby comes, and then look to find someone else in the 4 months... But I don't know how I'd even say this to her ya know? I don't know!!! Sorry for the novel, you deserve a prize if you've made it this far!!!

JulyMomma2U2 · April 2014

Sorry!!! Stupid mobile erased all my formatting!!!

MamaAllison · April 2014

Bottom line for me is if you have clarified expectations, given her a chance to rectify, and she is still not meeting expectations then i'd her go when you are on leave. Maybe give her one more warning/chance? The diaper thing is just totally unacceptable to me. I could let the other things go since they are not care related, but not that.

VOR · April 2014

Two views on this. BIg picture- she isn't working for you. to spill milk and not do anything about it? She sounds like a slob. THe diapers too. There is stuff here that you really shoudln't have to tell your nanny to do. This is their JOB. But - be careful about your expectations of all the "other stuff" you want her to do. You ARE the mom and kids do act differently w/ different people. PLUS - if she were emptying the dishwasher or doing laundry and one of your kids hurt themselves, it would probably become an issue of "why wasn't she paying more attention to my kid?" Which leads me to- be careful about what duties you want a nanny to do. Some nannies are very serious about sticking to ONLY work that involves the kids. Doesn't mean some won't be willing to do this other stuff, but.... just be careful. If you start to look for a new nanny, set out your expectations upfront and make sure that the nanny is going to be cool with it. (if there are no paragraph breaks, I apologize. On my iPad).

id012 · April 2014

I just thought I would chime in. I was a nanny for a long time and now am help in out a family for a little while.
Anyway, I thknk the dishwasher thin you have to let go. How long is she at your house for in a day? She said the kids overlapped naps for 30mins. I kind of think of that as her 30min lunch break and she should have to be responsible for chores. (Of course if shes only there f ok r a few hours thats different).
As for the other chores, I think if you weren't up front with her about what you expect to get done when you hired her then I cant really blame her. I will empty the dishwasher and do the dishes. Clean up the counters and pick him the main living area before they come home but thats it. Any thing more then that and I would be expecting a large pay increase. Im not there to do there chores im there to play/take care of there kids for 9 hours a day.
On the other hand it definitely sounds like its just not working. Ok woild cut ties and start new. When's ur baby due? If its soonish I'd just push through and tell her you wont be needing her as time gets closer to due date.
Then find some one you like and make sure your expectations are clear about what otherthings they will need to due around the house before you even interview. I have a lot of nanny friends who would never do someone else laundry..including me! But i do have friends that do things like start dinner, laundry, making the beds, grocery shop etc. And are happy to do so, tho they do get paid much more.
Anyway! I would deff let her go and start fresh with someone new! Good luck im sure it will all work out!

nosoup4u · April 2014

Put the different size diapers in two different baskets. I notice details, and sometimes have set ups where DH or someone else doesn't notice how it's supposed to work, you know? She sounds like she doesn't do details.

Honestly, it sounds like it's not working, especially if you guys want someone to be able to pitch in w housework. Do you have the funds to pay for a weekly or biweekly house cleaning after your third comes? That might be a better set up than expecting a nanny (not neccesarily your current one) to watch three under two (right?) and clean.

jf198400 · April 2014

I would expect her to be able to handle basic chores. She's obviously not working, it's time to find someone new. The point of having a nanny is to make your life easier.
We used to have my mom watching both kids 2u2 in our house. Everyday she would empty the dishwasher, load the dirty dishes, prep the bottles, make them lunch, do kids laundry, bring in the mail, feed the dog, tidy up after the kids, make their beds. This was with them not always napping at the same time. You know it yourself, it's easy to manage these daily things when you do it in little 5min increments throughout the day.
I think you will need a really good nanny to handle 3 children. I'm also expecting baby 3 and I'm nervous about doing it all by myself. I would definitely take the time over ML to find someone great.

JulyMomma2U2 · April 2014

Thanks ladies..

I should clarify.. when I mentioned about adding some additional responsibilities when #3 comes, that would also include a pay raise.. and, those responsibilities would not be "mandatory", more like if you have time in the 3 days that you are here.. sure, run a load of the kids laundry.. never our stuff (that bugs me.. even when my Mom or MIL tries doing our laundry.. not a fan).. same with the dishwasher.. in the 3 months we've had her, this is maybe the 2nd time the dishwasher was not emptied but clean, prohibiting her from putting dishes in there. I guess my bigger point is.. if we've discussed, now multiple times, about cleaning up after the kids.. it really shouldn't be impossible to take 10 minutes at some point and wash the dishes if you can't put them in the dishwasher..

I'd like to say what @VOR said about spending all her time watching them is likely the reason.. and, perhaps that is.. I do see before I leave that she is very much on top of what my 2 year old is doing.. doesn't leave his side, etc.. doesn't let him go down the steps alone (we have 4 stairs into our family room), etc.. that's fine if that's your style.. I was really hoping with time she'd loosen up on that.. gain confidence in his abilities, see he doesn't need to be watched "like a hawk" for the most part.. but, we haven't reached that stage yet. But, then there are certain instances where things have gotten broken.. like, he opened up one of my china cabinets (which, I still have no idea how he did because those doors are really hard to open -- it's an antique piece), and pulled out "something glass" and it broke.. when MH asked what it was, she wasn't sure.. it was "something glass".. that was semi an issue for me, only because that night, when I was walking around after putting the kids to bed, I got a shard of glass in my foot.. Our vacuum is in the same place every day.. she knows where it is, but she just used a little dust buster to pick up the glass pieces.. I guess again it was kind of like.. this is glass!! You could have done a better job at cleaning it up.. but, I brushed it off because, sure I could have missed a sliver, too..

I don't know. My Mom and MIL were watching my boys in January, so I guess I got used to their styles.. in the sense that.. there was never a day when I left the house cleaner than when I came home. There were never issues with diapers, and leaking, and diaper rash.. There were never spills or messes that were left unattended.. maybe I was just "spoiled" by that and it's caused me to set my expectations pretty high.. but, considering I'm paying someone 3/4 of my salary practically, I guess I expected some of these things to be "included" in a nanny salary (like we discussed) as opposed to just a babysitter that you hire for 3 hours on a whim.. I always think back to the years that I nannied.. the kids were a little older.. 3+.. but, I always did way more than I was ever asked to do.. it was just second nature to me to "help out" with things.. especially if I wasn't 100% preoccupied.. I remember mopping floors and running the vacuum.. loading and unloading dishwasher.. cleaning the kids rooms and making their beds, etc.. it was just.. habit for me.. heck, I even remember wiping down the bathroom sink and such every morning after the kids brushed their teeth (I arrived most days before they were awake).. these weren't things I was "asked" to do.. just things I did because.. honestly.. who wants to come home after working all day to toothpaste dried on the counter? And, I was <18 when I was nannying!

I have learned a number of things from all of this.. and, I definitely think that before baby 3 comes (likely late August), we'll be more prepared and hopefully more equipped at finding a nanny that better fits all of our needs...

TheBorg7of9 · April 2014

I agree that you should find someone new. I also think your criticisms are legit. Now that you know what you want, it will be easier to find that person. I just hired a nanny to watch 3 kids under 3, and I expect her to clean up after herself and the kids, dishes and kid laundry. I told her from the beginning that was part of the job and I put it in her contract.

shannm · April 2014

As kind as she may be with your kids, she kind of sounds flaky and I would be worried that her sloppiness/carelessness around the house might reflect how she would handle certain situations with the kids….like the broken glass.

If it were me, I would be looking for someone who was a little more on top of things.

thedash · April 2014

She sounds awful. Don't feel bad, just tell her that after #3 arrives you are staying home "for a while" and haven't decided what to do about childcare after that so you are letting her go.

ss265 · April 2014

Agree with PP, it sounds like you guys just aren't a good fit. A friend of mine recently changed her nanny for this exact same reason - she complained that when she came home from work, she had to spend 30 minutes wiping down the microwave and cleaning up in the kitchen before she could spend time with her baby. Her nanny was great with the baby but my friend couldn't overlook the cleanliness issues so she changed nannies.

And it sounds like cleanliness is a deal breaker for you so you need to be clear up front on what your expectations are.

molisar · April 2014

milkergirl1 said:

My opinion...lay her off when #3 comes and look for a new nanny during your maternity leave. I think that even though you thought you cleared up the miscommunication between your H and her, it sounds like she'll be the type to slack off again.

This. And agreed with pp's, the dirty diaper thing is unacceptable. Unless their poos smell like flowers, she's just being lazy. How would she like to sit in soiled pants for a long period of time?

molisar · April 2014

And also, I can kind of see the dishes issue. Sometimes when I'm home with my boys I have every intention of keeping a clean house but it just doesn't happen. With that said, we ask our nanny to stay a little while after I am home to clean up if she was unable to during the day.

mommaoftrips · April 2014

JulyMomma2U2 said:
Thanks ladies..

I should clarify.. when I mentioned about adding some additional responsibilities when #3 comes, that would also include a pay raise.. and, those responsibilities would not be "mandatory", more like if you have time in the 3 days that you are here.. sure, run a load of the kids laundry.. never our stuff (that bugs me.. even when my Mom or MIL tries doing our laundry.. not a fan).. same with the dishwasher.. in the 3 months we've had her, this is maybe the 2nd time the dishwasher was not emptied but clean, prohibiting her from putting dishes in there. I guess my bigger point is.. if we've discussed, now multiple times, about cleaning up after the kids.. it really shouldn't be impossible to take 10 minutes at some point and wash the dishes if you can't put them in the dishwasher..

I'd like to say what @VOR said about spending all her time watching them is likely the reason.. and, perhaps that is.. I do see before I leave that she is very much on top of what my 2 year old is doing.. doesn't leave his side, etc.. doesn't let him go down the steps alone (we have 4 stairs into our family room), etc.. that's fine if that's your style.. I was really hoping with time she'd loosen up on that.. gain confidence in his abilities, see he doesn't need to be watched "like a hawk" for the most part.. but, we haven't reached that stage yet. But, then there are certain instances where things have gotten broken.. like, he opened up one of my china cabinets (which, I still have no idea how he did because those doors are really hard to open -- it's an antique piece), and pulled out "something glass" and it broke.. when MH asked what it was, she wasn't sure.. it was "something glass".. that was semi an issue for me, only because that night, when I was walking around after putting the kids to bed, I got a shard of glass in my foot.. Our vacuum is in the same place every day.. she knows where it is, but she just used a little dust buster to pick up the glass pieces.. I guess again it was kind of like.. this is glass!! You could have done a better job at cleaning it up.. but, I brushed it off because, sure I could have missed a sliver, too..

I don't know. My Mom and MIL were watching my boys in January, so I guess I got used to their styles.. in the sense that.. there was never a day when I left the house cleaner than when I came home. There were never issues with diapers, and leaking, and diaper rash.. There were never spills or messes that were left unattended.. maybe I was just "spoiled" by that and it's caused me to set my expectations pretty high.. but, considering I'm paying someone 3/4 of my salary practically, I guess I expected some of these things to be "included" in a nanny salary (like we discussed) as opposed to just a babysitter that you hire for 3 hours on a whim.. I always think back to the years that I nannied.. the kids were a little older.. 3+.. but, I always did way more than I was ever asked to do.. it was just second nature to me to "help out" with things.. especially if I wasn't 100% preoccupied.. I remember mopping floors and running the vacuum.. loading and unloading dishwasher.. cleaning the kids rooms and making their beds, etc.. it was just.. habit for me.. heck, I even remember wiping down the bathroom sink and such every morning after the kids brushed their teeth (I arrived most days before they were awake).. these weren't things I was "asked" to do.. just things I did because.. honestly.. who wants to come home after working all day to toothpaste dried on the counter? And, I was <18 when I was nannying!

I have learned a number of things from all of this.. and, I definitely think that before baby 3 comes (likely late August), we'll be more prepared and hopefully more equipped at finding a nanny that better fits all of our needs...

In my experience with our nanny - if you say 'do it you can - it would be nice' it will NOT happen. You must explicitly outline the responsibilities and make sure they are done daily. If that means - dishwasher one day. Laundry the next, that is fine. But don't leave it up to free will.

JulyMomma2U2 · April 2014

Thanks.. I think you're right.. I try and be "friendly" about it.. I don't want to come across as demanding, or unrealistic!! I know some days can be tougher, and so I just feel bad stating in such a way that makes it out like I demand these things every single day.. Prior to hiring, light housework was specified and agreed upon.. we did discuss this during all 3 interviews, as far as our expectations and such.. light housework meant cleaning up after the kids, putting toys away, washing dishes and bottles, etc.. but, with that said, I did always follow it up and say I know some days are harder than others and that's okay, too.. we didn't discuss laundry at that time, because, right now, it's not something I need her to do.... my previous statement was just reflecting our current thoughts about something we may need/benefit from having help with once #3 comes.. right now I do 2 loads of kids laundry/week including sheets and towels and receiving blankets.. I imagine with 3 kids, that will jump to 3 loads.. would be convenient to have one done early in the week and then I could do the others towards the end of the week.. but, again, this is just something we're thinking about now..

I just feel guilty letting her go.. but, I like the idea of just saying we aren't sure what we're going to do after having the baby... I'm not sure how long I'll stay out, my husband has time he can use, and we're considering several child care options.. at least this way I don't have to say "this is not working out".. plus, spinning it that way I can give her more heads up without worrying that she'd up and leave us before we have the baby!

mommaoftrips · April 2014

I think the fair thing for you to do, is to actually give her some constructive feedback. If she plans to stay in this field she should know that she should be paying a little more attention to detail. Nothing you mentioned is beyond the scope of the roles and responsibilities of any nanny. Besides she might ask you to be a reference, so cleaning-up her act now will help her in her future job search. GL I know this HR stuff isn't fun.
With our first nanny I tried the nice route too and it didn't work, it was so much easier this time around.

nosoup4u · April 2014

Either you want her to do housework or you don't. Having it be optional means she won't do it (obviously). It's not about being demanding, it's about having expectations for an employee. Write down exactly what you want her do to, housework-wise, and stay on her about it. And at this point, I would start looking for someone else, if it's bothering you this much, it's just not working.

*sparky* · April 2014

I agree with the PPs. It is obviously not working out and she will not get more efficient and wanting to clean once you have three kids so I would let her go once you start ML and look for someone new.

With the new person make sure you are crystal clear on what you want (I think with this one your DH said not to worry about picking up at first and it caused some issues). Also when you check references make sure the new nanny actually does the picking up, laundry, etc. that you want yours to do.

EastCoastBride · April 2014

mommaoftrips said:

I think the fair thing for you to do, is to actually give her some constructive feedback. If she plans to stay in this field she should know that she should be paying a little more attention to detail.

I agree with this. She needs to understand that you aren't happy about the state of your kids diapers or the cleanliness of the kitchen. She absolutely should be cleaning up messes that SHE creates. She absolutely should be at least washing the dishes that she used - for both the kids and herself.

She should understand that these are issues that ANY parent out there will have a problem with.

The rest of it? It all depends on your agreement w/ her when you hired her and how clear you are (unloading the dishwasher, throwing in some laundry, and other "if there is time" stuff).

shakinros · April 2014

nosoup4u said:
Either you want her to do housework or you don't. Having it be optional means she won't do it (obviously). It's not about being demanding, it's about having expectations for an employee. Write down exactly what you want her do to, housework-wise, and stay on her about it. And at this point, I would start looking for someone else, if it's bothering you this much, it's just not working.

This. It's not working out so you should find someone else. BUT don't confuse the next person by saying "if you have time" or "I know some days are harder than others." Either you expect things to be clean or you don't. It's obvious that you need someone who cares about cleanliness (I would too!) so be clear about that and don't make excuses for them in advance.

sillygirlio · April 2014

I only read through half the responses, so I don't know if anyone else said this... but on the diaper issue... your children may have pooped at 5:05 on your husband's watch. Poop that happens at 5:05 will look the same at 6:15 as poop that happened at 4:55. Honestly, it doesn't take too long for a poop diaper to look like it's been there for a while. I know because I'm a daycare provider and I see about 75 poopy diapers a week. If you're not there when she leaves you have no way of knowing if the poop was there on her watch. Those little buggers can dirty a diaper in a flash and I know many a father who would go ahead and blame it on the nanny.

That said, it doesn't sound like you're happy with what she's doing. She very likely isn't happy either. I'd let her go and then make a detailed job description before you start interviews for your next nanny.

More nanny issues.. And an etiquette question.

Re: More nanny issues.. And an etiquette question.

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